POLL: Do LEOs have the same rights as citizens?

Poll: Do LEOs have the same right of Free Speech as regular citizens do when they are off-duty?

Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.

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  1. #1
    Sysop
    Guest

    POLL: Do LEOs have the same rights as citizens?

    This Poll is viewable by everyone but can only be answered by registered users. This is the default configuration for our Message Board. You are not asked for your name when registering and can use any available handle to identify yourself. As always, the identity of our users is confidential and I think we've proven by now what lengths we'll go to in order to protect that right. We encourage you to register and to take this poll so that its impact will be felt.

  2. #2
    Guest
    Yes, they have the same rights


    please show me where the Consitution says other wise

  3. #3
    Junior Member LEO Affairs Recruit
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    4

    No they don't

    The fact is as a leo you should conduct yourself to a higher standard. No leo's should not have the same rights. They give up those rights when they put on the badge.

  4. #4
    Guest
    I am not a registered user so I can not access these polls but I felt compelled to comment on what the Phantom posted. You have a right to your opinion Phantom and I respect that right. Many citizens over the years have fought for your right to express your opinion.

    I served in the U.S. Military for many many years. During my time in service I was deployed to alot of places. When your in the military it does indeed seem that you give up alot of your rights to support the mission and the chain of command. It's an understood part of service to our country. I find it's sort of ironic that the very people defending the rights of our citizenship may willingly have to give up some of their rights to do so. If you have ever been in the military then you know it's nothing like a civilian job of which law enforcement is a part.

    I know, I know. You say law enforcement is a paramilitary organization that embraces some of the military rules. To a certain degree yes. But being in law enforcement I still have the ability to call in sick or quit whenever I want. I have the ability to address grievences at work and choose without question what and where I wish to travel in my off time. The military provides for none of that. Don't beleave me, just ask any soldier or marine when was the last time he called in sick to his first sergeant or if he is allowed to travel anywhere he desires on his days off. The military had a fifty mile rule when I was in.

    After my military service I went to work in the civilian sector until I began my new career in law enforcement. I love this job and plan on being here until retirement. While law enforcement organizations attempt to follow the military model they are more related to the civilian side of the house. After being "employed" in all three phases as I desribed above I have come to this opinion. Between the military and law enforcement field I have "served" the public well over 20 years. I have several more to go before I can enjoy retirement.

    My question to you Phantom is this. I will be in my mid fifties when I finally retire. I went into the military at 18 years of age. Between the miltary and the law enforcement career field I will have spent the vast majority of my life protecting and serving the public, and loving every minute of it I might add. But why should I be afforded less rights than the cable guy or the electric company lineman or the computer programer or the home builder or the real estate saleperson or etc.etc.etc.....

    You are right in the point that you make about law enforcement needing to conduct themselves in a professional manner both on and off the job. We should be held to a higher standard of conduct by the vary nature of our job but does that mean we should enjoy less or restricted rights? In my opinion I don't think so. We should enjoy the same protection of law as the rest of the citizens by the very laws that we are sworn to enforce. If we break those laws we should be more than held accountable we should be made an example of but please don't tell me I have to give up my rights for most of my life so you can enjoy yours.

    Stay Safe

  5. #5
    Guest
    good post

  6. #6
    Guest

    Easy Answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Riddle me this
    My question to you Phantom is this. I will be in my mid fifties when I finally retire. I went into the military at 18 years of age. Between the miltary and the law enforcement career field I will have spent the vast majority of my life protecting and serving the public, and loving every minute of it I might add. But why should I be afforded less rights than the cable guy or the electric company lineman or the computer programer or the home builder or the real estate saleperson or etc.etc.etc.....

    You are right in the point that you make about law enforcement needing to conduct themselves in a professional manner both on and off the job. We should be held to a higher standard of conduct by the vary nature of our job but does that mean we should enjoy less or restricted rights? In my opinion I don't think so. We should enjoy the same protection of law as the rest of the citizens by the very laws that we are sworn to enforce. If we break those laws we should be more than held accountable we should be made an example of but please don't tell me I have to give up my rights for most of my life so you can enjoy yours.

    Stay Safe

    The answer is simple: The limitations on your rights are not matters of law. Legally, you have the same rights as other citizens.

    However, you relinquished some of those rights as
    A CONDITION OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT in the particular job field of law enforcement.

    You knew coming in that there were Rules, Regulations, Standard Operating Procedures, Qualification Standards, etc. that must be adhered to in order to be a law enforcement officer.

    By accepting the offer of employment you also accepted the Conditions of Employment.

    You correctly stated that you can resign from this job in a manner unavailable to you when you were in the military. In order to free yourself from the restrictions placed on you as Conditions of Employment - simply resign.

    Otherwise, live within those conditions. They are a part of the job. Violations of the conditions are not a matter of law - they are a matter of discipline.

    As a matter of fact, most other jobs also have their own conditions of employment although they are generally less rigorous than those in law enforcement. Do you think IBM doesn't have rules of conduct for their employees?

    I hope I have explained this clearly.


    :idea:

  7. #7
    Guest
    Well Riddler you are wrong. THis is a job. At on time many felt the LOE's could not organize. Guess what, the courts, the civilian courts, said wrong we have rights. At one time if you called me at night to come to work and I did not, I could be hung out to dry. Guess what, once again the civilian courts said not if I do not answer the phone, and if you want me on standby the same courts have said let them pay you.

    Now you can regulate how I am at work with rules and regulations, but when it comes to my time you can not regulate me as long as I obey the laws or a few rules such as you limiting my powers while off duty. But you see when I try to take actions when off duty, I really am on duty, and thus the rules are in play.

    Think about what you are saying, as from your answer you are from the old school when depuites could not live together or date or drink at certain places outside of work. I remember when you could not hold this job if you backed someone other than the sheriff at election time. Those rules have all been torn down by court rulings many years ago. That was then and this is now, it is time for you to move forward and except being a deputy for what it really is......a job, not a way of life, but a job, a job one can love if they want or hate if they want, just as long as the hate stays at home on not effect others at the job site.

  8. #8
    Guest

    The answer

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous

    Now you can regulate how I am at work with rules and regulations, but when it comes to my time you can not regulate me as long as I obey the laws or a few rules such as you limiting my powers while off duty. But you see when I try to take actions when off duty, I really am on duty, and thus the rules are in play.
    Let's try to modify your confusion. I am not the Riddler; I posted as ANSWER to the Riddle.

    Moving on - you are deceiving yourself if you believe you can break the Rules & Regulations, SOPs, etc. that govern your OFF DUTY BEHAVIOR with impunity. We are talking about Conditions of Employment, not laws.

    Don't think so? Try getting caught doing off duty LE jobs without going through the off duty process. Try getting caught making an off duty public speech using disparaging ethnic references. These things are not illegal, they are just against the RULES of this job.

    The fact that you don't REALLY believe that you have absolute off duty freedom of speech is demonstrated by the absence of your registration with a true name for your postings on this board. Go ahead. Register with your true name and then post a message that violates an SOP, such as showing disrespect to a superior or using ethnic slurs. It's not against the law.

    Oh, I forgot. You would never violate a rule when off duty.

    :wink:

  9. #9
    Guest

    To the answer man

    The answer is simple: The limitations on your rights are not matters of law. Legally, you have the same rights as other citizens.

    However, you relinquished some of those rights as A CONDITION OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT in the particular job field of law enforcement.


    My question to you is this answer man. I've been working under SOP's and Rules and Regulations for along time. I know that they are a valuable tool for employers in the work place. The ultimate question for society in general, not just the law enforcement field, is how far can an employer influence an employees private life via these work related policies? Every civilian or governmental organization has rules and regulations for it's employees that they must adhere to while at work. Of that I think we would both agree.

    Every company or agency has a certain image that they wish to project to the public in order to better accomplish their mission. Wheter it's waiting tables or protecting others. You stated above that the limitations of my rights are not matters of law. I tend to disagree with that statement for the simple reasoning that the U.S. Constitution, which is one of this countries highest regarded legal documents, guarantees each citizen certain rights and liberties. While I more than agree with you on the point of while I am at work I must obey all of my employers policies, what about when I'm at home or at the beach, or at the movies, or at the local sports bar? What obligation do we as employees have to our employers then? Do employers have a right to restrict your actions or activities during your personal time?

    All of us are required to obey the laws as set forth by our national, state and local governments at all times. Wheter we are at work or not. But where does an employers administrative rules end? I think it's a question that will not be an easy one and will require some people in the legal professionon far above yours or my pay grade to answer. You make some interesting points answer man but does'nt mean I fully agree with you. Which is my right.

  10. #10
    Guest
    For the "answerman"

    The examples you gave are very poor. 1st lets look at off duty. You are using your powers that the Sheriff has extended to you, so yes he can limit your use of powers that are granted to him and then handed to you.

    2nd....standing at "Speakers Corner" and shouting racial slurs can also go back to the type of person you are on the job. Courts have already upheld that you can be removed for being racial as it leads to a pattern of how you would treat the general public.

    But if I do have the right to speak against my boss or supervisors without revealing who I may be, I just can not do it at work. That is why the government has the "Whistle Blowers Act", so when an employee feels that an unjust has been done, say in an IA case that is swept under the rug because of friendship there is a recourse the person can take without actions taken against them.

    The real question here is not about what we can or can not do after we leave work and park the car. The question is can the Sheriff go "fishing" by using a court order to find the identities of those on a board that may or may not be an extension of his Office. This is like a deputy asking for banks records for everyone in Hillsborough County to see who has deposited possible illeagel money into an account. Your "fishing". We act on percentages on how much time should be spent to solving a crime with the information known. So lets say the 2nd DCA does rule in favor of HCSO. So what! What do you do with the information? What if this information leads you to a home that has more than one employee? What happens in the investigation leads you to a home that has an unsecured wireless system? What happens if they all tell you it wasn't me? Do you find all at fault that had access to the computer? Do you keep a record of who possibly was involved and then never allow these employees a promotion or a transfer to a better job, even though you are not certain they were involved? Is this how HCSO handles the investigations of crime within the County? I think not. Our investigations are at the highest level of professionalism. We should never assume anything when making the arrest. We act on facts, and the fact is how can you show who sat at the keyboard at the time the entries were made?

    And you ask, why not post my name to test the waters of my rights? Because that is my "right", just as I see you have the "right" to omit your name.

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