Pinellas County deputy shoots, kills man who pointed gun at him in St. Petersburg - Page 22
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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I know most of you have been around but, let me spell it out for you. This "poster" is trying to get one of you to lose your temper or make a tiny mistake so they can then print this out and go public with a spin and rinse and show the world how Dep Curry murdered some armed little angels on their way to bible study. DON'T post anymore, don't fall for this. His mission is to hang you and your brother on a bogus wrap. Don't fall for it. we all deserve better than this BS
    Definition of a troll. This has been said multiple times in this thread. Stop feeding the troll.
        

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I know most of you have been around but, let me spell it out for you. This "poster" is trying to get one of you to lose your temper or make a tiny mistake so they can then print this out and go public with a spin and rinse and show the world how Dep Curry murdered some armed little angels on their way to bible study. DON'T post anymore, don't fall for this. His mission is to hang you and your brother on a bogus wrap. Don't fall for it. we all deserve better than this BS
    Not so. All that I have said is that this is not a classic OIS. It is problematic for the agency and Curry. Curry did several things, which are highly questionable here. Now, the "investigation" may clear up the questions surrounding this shooting, Curry will be found to be justified and subsequent civil cases will all be dismissed and everyone will live happily ever after, except Golden, of course.

    Now, Golden and Ford were not little angels, far from it. They were both convicted felons who were armed in violation of state law and potentially in violation of state law, for open carry. But, that is irrelevant to this case, as Curry did not possess that knowledge at the time of the shooting.

    Also, Curry decided to remain where he was, in the alley, and actively engage Golden and, later, Ford. He made no effort to retreat, even though he was seated in a motor vehicle. There might have been a good reason for this, though one has never been provided.

    Also, Curry was not engaged in an arrest or any investigation involving Golden and Ford. His claim for justification of the shooting was strictly self defense. Curry delivered no verbal instructions nor did he makes any attempt to allow Golden and Ford the opportunity to lay down their weapons, before he opened fire on them. Again, there might have been a good reason for this. Curry said that Golden pointed a forearm at him and that he subsequently "feared for his life". What does that mean, exactly? Did Golden point the weapon at Curry, in a threatening manner? Were any verbal threats issued by either Golden or Ford? What circumstance generated this fear for his life in Curry? And, was his decision that pointing the weapon at him or in his direction was a reasonable assumption that a deadly force attack was imminent and could not be stopped except by the immediate application of deadly force? Again, maybe.

    My intent is not to hang Curry. He has either done that himself or not. My intent is to warn LEOs that using force, especially deadly force, against anyone, can have long lasting negative results. The results of those actions do not end with the last shot fired. They continue through a variety of legal reviews. These include the LE shooting investigation, the SAO review, possibly a grand jury review, and civil complaint and damage cases. There is a good chance that, even if the shooting is found to be "justified", the LEO may be terminated and find themselves no longer employable in LE.

    LEOs have to think. They have to plan ahead for as many contingencies as possible. Simply reacting to a perceived situation may not pass later investigation.

    So, no one has to respond to my posts. It is enough that they generate some thought on this issue. And, the nature of the response tends to indicate that the members of the PCSO are not satisfied that this shooting was legally kosher.
        

  3. #213
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    You are the one not satisfied with the way Curry handled what he was confronted with. Further, his perception carries the most weight because he was there. Finally, no one takes you seriously because you cannot disguise how you really feel about us, it oozes out of you.

    And the foremost priority when employing deadly force is do I think this guy has the means, ability and intent to cause me or someone else severe physical harm. If the answer is yes, then we had better start acting like we want to win. What lies beyond our target, finding cover, etc all have a place, but civil liability and public optics are way outside the threshold of consideration when you are on the reactionary clock.

    Hell, it would be great to call a pause to the action and break out a checklist that would satisfy everyone but in reality we have less than two seconds from perception of threat to react to it or we lose. Sorry, but that’s the truth.
        

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    You are the one not satisfied with the way Curry handled what he was confronted with. Further, his perception carries the most weight because he was there. Finally, no one takes you seriously because you cannot disguise how you really feel about us, it oozes out of you.

    And the foremost priority when employing deadly force is do I think this guy has the means, ability and intent to cause me or someone else severe physical harm. If the answer is yes, then we had better start acting like we want to win. What lies beyond our target, finding cover, etc all have a place, but civil liability and public optics are way outside the threshold of consideration when you are on the reactionary clock.

    Hell, it would be great to call a pause to the action and break out a checklist that would satisfy everyone but in reality we have less than two seconds from perception of threat to react to it or we lose. Sorry, but that’s the truth.
    Not true. While Curry's "perception" of imminent attack which could only be stopped by his use of deadly force is important, it still has to be supported. Remember Drejka? He perceived McGlockton to be a continuing threat. How did that turn out for him? In this case, we have both a living witness, Ford, and some video evidence.

    Now you make a seemingly compelling argument. But, it fails to address the deficiencies in Curry's actions. You ignore the fact that Curry exited his car, without taking any fire from Golden and Ford. You ignore the fact that he gave no verbal orders to either, before he started firing. You ignore the fact that Golden and Ford returned fire, they did not initiate it. You ignore the fact that Curry did not know either Golden or Ford and was unaware of the fact that they were convicted felons. You ignore the fact the man who spoke to Curry and called him a "troll', has not been publicly identified as being the man speaking with Curry and there is some discrepancy, a rather large one in fact, that Curry ever specifically identified himself as a Deputy Sheriff. You overlook the faact that no public account has actually identified what action Golden took, which would lead a reasonable man to assume he was threatening Curry? Now, what would have happened, if Curry had drawn his pistol and ordered Golden to put down the firearm? Would Golden have complied? Would he have attempted to resist by shooting Curry? Would he have simply scampered off into the all-concealing shadows? We'll never know, because Curry did not issue any instructions or give Golden a chance to comply. He simply stepped out of his car and opened fire on Golden. When Curry saw the men approaching with a firearm, why didn't he simply back down the alleyway? It was clear and backing up would have placed the engine block between him and the men with the guns. Then he could have called for back-up and approached the men in greater safety. Instead he jumps out of a vehicle, which presents far greater protection than his puny vest and immediately opens fire on Golden. Does this sound like good tactics to you? If Golden was intent upon harming him, then it is literally unbelievable that he only fired 3 rounds at Curry and failed to hit him from a distance of 30 feet. And Ford did not fire at all, until he was fleeing from incoming fire from Curry.

    Now this 2 second reaction time to react to a threat, real or perceived, is total BS. The reason is because there is usually more than one action that you can take against a physical threat. The first is always to establish more distance between you and the threat. Then you have the option of acquiring cover. Then you have the option of a visible threatened use of force, deadly or non-deadly, coupled with verbal commands. Then you can go to the use of deadly force. Remember that cute little force continuum chart that you got in the use of force classes in the academy and in in-service training? Remember that the use of deadly force is the last resort, not, usually, the first? Well, in this case Curry went directly to using deadly force. Therefor, he has to justify that use of deadly force. We'll see if he and the agency can do that. The agency is already spinning this to make it sound like Golden and Ford fired on Curry first and Curry returned fire. They keeping harping on the fact that Golden and Ford were convicted felons, even though Curry did not know that when he opened fire in them. The agency is doing its best to make this a good shooting.

    We'll see if the agency and the SAO can adequately answer all the questions surrounding this case.
        

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Not true. While Curry's "perception" of imminent attack which could only be stopped by his use of deadly force is important, it still has to be supported. Remember Drejka? He perceived McGlockton to be a continuing threat. How did that turn out for him? In this case, we have both a living witness, Ford, and some video evidence.

    Now you make a seemingly compelling argument. But, it fails to address the deficiencies in Curry's actions. You ignore the fact that Curry exited his car, without taking any fire from Golden and Ford. You ignore the fact that he gave no verbal orders to either, before he started firing. You ignore the fact that Golden and Ford returned fire, they did not initiate it. You ignore the fact that Curry did not know either Golden or Ford and was unaware of the fact that they were convicted felons. You ignore the fact the man who spoke to Curry and called him a "troll', has not been publicly identified as being the man speaking with Curry and there is some discrepancy, a rather large one in fact, that Curry ever specifically identified himself as a Deputy Sheriff. You overlook the faact that no public account has actually identified what action Golden took, which would lead a reasonable man to assume he was threatening Curry? Now, what would have happened, if Curry had drawn his pistol and ordered Golden to put down the firearm? Would Golden have complied? Would he have attempted to resist by shooting Curry? Would he have simply scampered off into the all-concealing shadows? We'll never know, because Curry did not issue any instructions or give Golden a chance to comply. He simply stepped out of his car and opened fire on Golden. When Curry saw the men approaching with a firearm, why didn't he simply back down the alleyway? It was clear and backing up would have placed the engine block between him and the men with the guns. Then he could have called for back-up and approached the men in greater safety. Instead he jumps out of a vehicle, which presents far greater protection than his puny vest and immediately opens fire on Golden. Does this sound like good tactics to you? If Golden was intent upon harming him, then it is literally unbelievable that he only fired 3 rounds at Curry and failed to hit him from a distance of 30 feet. And Ford did not fire at all, until he was fleeing from incoming fire from Curry.

    Now this 2 second reaction time to react to a threat, real or perceived, is total BS. The reason is because there is usually more than one action that you can take against a physical threat. The first is always to establish more distance between you and the threat. Then you have the option of acquiring cover. Then you have the option of a visible threatened use of force, deadly or non-deadly, coupled with verbal commands. Then you can go to the use of deadly force. Remember that cute little force continuum chart that you got in the use of force classes in the academy and in in-service training? Remember that the use of deadly force is the last resort, not, usually, the first? Well, in this case Curry went directly to using deadly force. Therefor, he has to justify that use of deadly force. We'll see if he and the agency can do that. The agency is already spinning this to make it sound like Golden and Ford fired on Curry first and Curry returned fire. They keeping harping on the fact that Golden and Ford were convicted felons, even though Curry did not know that when he opened fire in them. The agency is doing its best to make this a good shooting.

    We'll see if the agency and the SAO can adequately answer all the questions surrounding this case.
    ⬆️⬆️⬆️This is what happens when you feed trolls. They come back for free food. Even when that food is a backhand. They don’t care. They have no life so any attention is good attention. Please speed up that cancer. 🖕🖕🖕
        

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    ⬆️⬆️⬆️This is what happens when you feed trolls. They come back for free food. Even when that food is a backhand. They don’t care. They have no life so any attention is good attention. Please speed up that cancer. 🖕🖕🖕
    So, if I am proven right are you going to throw yourself off an overpass onto I-75 in front of an oncoming truck?

    You are free to take my advice or not. I really don't care. I'm not going to be the one suffering, for a bad shooting. That would be you. By the way, did you ever wonder why it is taking do long to clear Curry and declare this a good shooting? The agency just says that they are building a case against Ford? How hard can that be, if Ford shot at Curry, with the intent to kill him? Unless Ford is claiming he only shot at Curry in self defense, after Curry shot at him for an unknown reason?

    Think about it for a moment. Not quite so open and shut, is it?
        

  7. #217
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    Who's for me locking this thread and putting this dead horse to rest?

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  8. #218
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    This needs to be locked.
        

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    You tipped your hand *****. Your so full of BS and you slipped up. Your use of the word “murder” says it all. You’re no cop. Your an Uruhu, and Uruhu Pet, Cop Block or some jaded cop hating asshole. I’d love to meet you and hear your views face to face. I doubt you are man enough to do that. You’d rather sit behind your keyboard in between masturbating over porn and playing World of Warcraft. Whatever your game is you are in serious need of reprogramming. I hope you die of cancer. 🖕🖕🖕🖕
    Yeah, cuz no cop would ever say a cop murdered anyone. They are all justified.
        

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I second this. Let’s stop responding to this buffoon. If he wants answers he can wait until the facts of the investigation are released.
    You mean the half assed, fabricated facts that ignore half of the forensic evidence spoon fed to McCabe. That's funny.
        

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