LEOs and the mentally ill
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  1. #1
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Captain
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    LEOs and the mentally ill

    Guess it happens in cities other than No Po too..

    http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_n ... f887a.html

  2. #2
    Guest

    Re: LEOs and the mentally ill

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Gibson
    Guess it happens in cities other than No Po too..

    http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_n ... f887a.html
    Notice the part about Sank Hook, that is what people are talking about, the mentally ill are dangerous people and unpredictable. If people want mental illness counselors to come and break through call them when there is an issue, not the police. Cops are not counselors they are there to stop what you cannot handle or control. They are not there to get hurt in the process. Crisis intervention training is a joke, it only works on a minimal amount of people and those like your son as you described him are dangerous. I really don't think you will ever understand but that is expected.

  3. #3
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    Re: LEOs and the mentally ill

    Thank you Guest56789, that is a very true statement! I just hope this Stephanie person gets it.

  4. #4
    Guest

    Re: LEOs and the mentally ill

    Quote Originally Posted by guest56789
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Gibson
    Guess it happens in cities other than No Po too..

    http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_n ... f887a.html
    Notice the part about Sank Hook, that is what people are talking about, the mentally ill are dangerous people and unpredictable. If people want mental illness counselors to come and break through call them when there is an issue, not the police. Cops are not counselors they are there to stop what you cannot handle or control. They are not there to get hurt in the process. Crisis intervention training is a joke, it only works on a minimal amount of people and those like your son as you described him are dangerous. I really don't think you will ever understand but that is expected.
    Regardless of you opinion on crisis intervention, it is the best proven way to keep a situtation from deteriorating. However I can see where such people as yourself relish a physical responce to any and all indidents. I was personaly invovled with a situtation the involved a mentaly disturbed individual. Another officer and myself had responded to a call of a person acting strange infront of Winn Dixie. Upon arrival we observed a middle aged male out front of the store just about down to the Dollar General. He was shouting and throwing his arms in the air. He was directing all his actions at no one just to himself. The other officer and myself talked to him and settled him down.
    He was obviously in an irritated state about something. A short time later the shift Lt. showed up and things went to hell fast. The Lt. got out of his unit and walked up to the guy and started yelling in his face asking him "what the hell is your damn problem?" The guy who had calmed since our arrival started yelling about about something in the parking lot. He threw his hands in the air and strated to wave them towards the parking lot. It was at this time the Lt. grabbed the guy and threw him over the trunk of my unit. The guy started to scream and resisted the attempt to be cuffed. It took the three of us to restrain him and place him in my unit.
    After he was secured in the car, the Lt. turned to me and the other officer and started to berate us about how we handled the indivdual when we first arrived.
    Now this is a direct quote from the Lt. "you can not talked to those kind of people." Of course the other officer and myself had to handle the arrest, paper work, and transport.

    Yet it is such members of our department like the Lt. and yourself that wonder why they are veiwed as knuckle dragging neanderthals.
    You are by your language in your post are a firm beleiver of the rubber hose treatment of the mentaly ill.

    I love listening to you "0 to arrest in 10 sec" types. To you anykind of training that is counter to that kind of thinking is worthless. As hard as it may seem to you, a physical responce to any and all problems is bullsh*t.

  5. #5
    Guest

    Re: LEOs and the mentally ill

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest298025
    Quote Originally Posted by guest56789
    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Gibson
    Guess it happens in cities other than No Po too..

    http://www.stlamerican.com/news/local_n ... f887a.html
    Notice the part about Sank Hook, that is what people are talking about, the mentally ill are dangerous people and unpredictable. If people want mental illness counselors to come and break through call them when there is an issue, not the police. Cops are not counselors they are there to stop what you cannot handle or control. They are not there to get hurt in the process. Crisis intervention training is a joke, it only works on a minimal amount of people and those like your son as you described him are dangerous. I really don't think you will ever understand but that is expected.
    Regardless of you opinion on crisis intervention, it is the best proven way to keep a situtation from deteriorating. However I can see where such people as yourself relish a physical responce to any and all indidents. I was personaly invovled with a situtation the involved a mentaly disturbed individual. Another officer and myself had responded to a call of a person acting strange infront of Winn Dixie. Upon arrival we observed a middle aged male out front of the store just about down to the Dollar General. He was shouting and throwing his arms in the air. He was directing all his actions at no one just to himself. The other officer and myself talked to him and settled him down.
    He was obviously in an irritated state about something. A short time later the shift Lt. showed up and things went to hell fast. The Lt. got out of his unit and walked up to the guy and started yelling in his face asking him "what the hell is your damn problem?" The guy who had calmed since our arrival started yelling about about something in the parking lot. He threw his hands in the air and strated to wave them towards the parking lot. It was at this time the Lt. grabbed the guy and threw him over the trunk of my unit. The guy started to scream and resisted the attempt to be cuffed. It took the three of us to restrain him and place him in my unit.
    After he was secured in the car, the Lt. turned to me and the other officer and started to berate us about how we handled the indivdual when we first arrived.
    Now this is a direct quote from the Lt. "you can not talked to those kind of people." Of course the other officer and myself had to handle the arrest, paper work, and transport.

    Yet it is such members of our department like the Lt. and yourself that wonder why they are veiwed as knuckle dragging neanderthals.
    You are by your language in your post are a firm beleiver of the rubber hose treatment of the mentaly ill.

    I love listening to you "0 to arrest in 10 sec" types. To you anykind of training that is counter to that kind of thinking is worthless. As hard as it may seem to you, a physical responce to any and all problems is bullsh*t.

    You are wrong about your thoughts on how I deal with or view things. I do however see in your statement that you were not able to talk this subject into handcuffs since your Lieutenant had to do it for you. He may have saved your life or did you not think of that? If you think that you can calm the irrational that are not thinking straight you are living in a fantasy world. You need to calm them to the point you can tactically take them into custody. You are going to end up using physical force, it just depends on how much. Every situation is different.

  6. #6
    Guest

    Re: LEOs and the mentally ill

    Quote Originally Posted by guest6767
    You are wrong about your thoughts on how I deal with or view things. I do however see in your statement that you were not able to talk this subject into handcuffs since your Lieutenant had to do it for you. He may have saved your life or did you not think of that? If you think that you can calm the irrational that are not thinking straight you are living in a fantasy world. You need to calm them to the point you can tactically take them into custody. You are going to end up using physical force, it just depends on how much. Every situation is different.
    It's just not registering with you is it? Not every mentaly ill person needs to be handled by the use of physical force.
    This was not the first or last time the Lt. escalated a controled situation into a physical one. He did not save our lives, rather he put them in harms way by his over reaction to an already controled incident. The situation would have never required having to restrain and arrest the subject if it had not be for the Lt. aggravating the complaint.
    Luckly he has since retired and moved back to MO.
    As I said before, this was not the first or last time he escalated a situation. Years before he inserted himself into another controled incident involving another person with possible mental issues. Once again he escalated the situation. This time it resulted in him emptying his service weapon firing at the subject and missing him all 15 times while being less the 30 ft. away. The original responding officer had to fire his weapon and take the subject down. This happened in an undeveloped section of town with no homes or traffic. Look it up. As a side note, the Lt. was also our departments firearms training officer at the time. Until recently, that was this department's first officer involved shooting. Guess what, the next officer involved shooting took place a few years later, and involved the same Lt.

    I'm glad that I to am retired and do not have to be put in a situtation with you. Especialy one that would require me to take unnecessary action because of your over aggressive attitude.
    It seems of late that there are more and more officers on the department that have the same mind set as that Lt. and you.

  7. #7
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Captain
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    Re: LEOs and the mentally ill

    There has to be a better way to handle these situations. ..

    Saying all mentally ill persons are violent, homicidal, therefore there is open season for officers to enforce, diagnose, judge and mete out cruel, brutal assault in the name of law and officer safety is NOT the answer.

    I don't understand being opposed to learning techniques for crisis intervention. What officer wouldn't want another tool in his belt to serve and protect with? How do officers feel about personal cameras. This would protect all parties concerned, I am certain it would have changed the events at my house that day.

    Thanks for the diverse insight..

  8. #8
    Guest

    Re: LEOs and the mentally ill

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephanie Gibson
    There has to be a better way to handle these situations. ..

    Saying all mentally ill persons are violent, homicidal, therefore there is open season for officers to enforce, diagnose, judge and mete out cruel, brutal assault in the name of law and officer safety is NOT the answer.

    I don't understand being opposed to learning techniques for crisis intervention. What officer wouldn't want another tool in his belt to serve and protect with? How do officers feel about personal cameras. This would protect all parties concerned, I am certain it would have changed the events at my house that day.

    Thanks for the diverse insight..
    Ms. Gibson,
    I can assure you that not all of us that wear a badge (or star) are as backward thinking as the knucklehead posting in here... The mentally ill have rights, are people, and shouldn't be pre-disposed as "problems," "dangerous," or "bad." There is a level of heightened officer safety that goes into dealing with a mentally ill person, but you don't have to beat them into submission... I have found that simply listening to them, or offering to help often squashes their anxiety... Sometimes you do have to go hands on, but every departmen tells you "with as much force as possible." In my time as a Law Enforcement Officer, there is only 1 time I had to get physical to the point of a fight.. And we're talking about 100+ contacts with mentally ill people... Hopefully this provides some reprieve in knowing not all of us LEOs get our jollys from beating the mentally ill

  9. #9
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Captain
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    Re: LEOs and the mentally ill

    Thank you Guest1919,

    I have no doubt that most LEOs good men that serve and protect our cities using compassion, intellect and discretion before physical force. I think we all live in very ugly times where threats are escalated everywhere. I cant imagine the stress that LEOs and their families must endure. I do know first hand the stress and strain this causes on my side of the issue.

    As for the variety of 'knuckleheads' that spew anger and threats at a mother who is dealing with this the only way she knows how... well If it makes him uncomfortable, so be it. If it makes any one of his type think twice next time, it is worth all the stones he tosses my way.

  10. #10
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Captain
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    Re: LEOs and the mentally ill

    Myth #2: People with severe mental illness are dangerous and violent.

    Fact: The vast majority of people with mental illnesses are no more violent than anyone else. In the cases when violence does occur, the incidence typically results from the same reasons as with the general public, such as feeling threatened or excessive use of alcohol and/or drugs. The media often sensationalizes accounts of crime by a mentally ill individual. Actually, people with mental illnesses are much more likely to be the victims of crime. More than 25% of persons with severe mental illness were victims of a violent crime in the past year, a rate more than 11 times that of the general population


    http://www.officer.com/article/10250867 ... al-illness

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