...and then they came for me.

[FD Bro']

2011 Regular Session The Florida Senate
COMMITTEE MEETING EXPANDED AGENDA
GOVERNMENTAL OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY
Senator Ring, Chair
Senator Siplin, Vice Chair
MEETING DATE: Thursday, December 9, 2010
TIME: 8:30 —10:30 a.m.
PLACE: Toni Jennings Committee Room, 110 Senate Office Building
MEMBERS: Senator Ring, Chair; Senator Siplin, Vice Chair; Senators Benacquisto, Bogdanoff, Dean, Fasano,
Flores, Garcia, Latvala, Margolis, Montford, Norman, and Wise

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
TAB -- BILL NO. and INTRODUCER -- BILL DESCRIPTION and SENATE COMMITTEE ACTIONS -- COMMITTEE ACTION
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

1)Overview of Governmental Oversight and Accountability Committee (Not included in LEOAFFAIRS posting)

2)Overview of Public Employee Benefits and Pension Plans: Presentations by Florida
League of Cities, Florida Association of Counties and Department of Management Services

Municipal Pensions:
2011 Reform Proposals

FLORIDA SENATE COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENTAL OVERSIGHT AND
ACCOUNTABILITY
DECEMBER 9, 2010
KRAIG CONN
LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL
FLORIDA LEAGUE OF CITIES, INC.

General Information
? 410 municipalities (cities, towns, villages)
? No requirement to provide a pension plan
? Most provide voluntarily or through collective bargaining
? Municipal employees have the right to collectively bargain for
retirement benefits
? Pensions and pension benefit increases must be funded on a sound
actuarial basis
? Options for Municipal Pension or Retirement Programs:
Defined Benefit Plan · Defined Contribution Plan ·
Chapter 175 (Firefighter) or Chapter 185 (Police)Defined Benefit Plan ·
Deferred Compensation Plan · Florida Retirement System ·
Any Combination of the Above
? Approximately 150 cities voluntarily participate in various FRS
membership classes, but make up less than 5% of the
participants/members of the FRS
? 206 cities provide approximately 440 different Defined Benefit
pension plans (some cities have more than 1: general, police, fire).
? The total asset market value is approximately $23 billion with
approximately 100,000 active employees and 60,000 retirees.
? Approximately 100 cities provide a Defined Contribution pension
plan for a class of city employees. Approximately 30 cities provide a
“share” plan to police officers or firefighters under Ch. 175 or 185,
FS, (this is a DC plan in addition to the required DB plan).
? Over 200 cities operate a pension plan under Ch. 175 or 185, FS
? Of the 440 city DB plans, 330 operate under Ch. 175 (firefighter) or
185 (police), FS, (177 police and 153 fire plans).
This is 75% of all city DB plans.
? The total asset market value of city Chapter 175 or 185 plans is
approximately $12.8 billion.
? This information is from 2009 and 2010.

Chapter 175 (Firefighter) and Chapter 185 (Police Officer)
Municipal Pension Programs

? In 1939 the Municipal Firefighters’ Pension Fund and in 1953 the
Municipal Police Officers’ Pension Fund were created by the
legislature.
? Insurance premium tax revenues provided to cities to encourage the
creation of Defined Benefit pensions for city firefighters and police
officers.
? Insurance premium tax for Fire (175) is 1.85% on premiums for
property insurance policies covering property within city limits.
? Insurance premium tax for Police (185) is 0.85% on premiums for
casualty insurance policies covering property within city limits.
? Over the past 40 years, cities and state regulators of Ch. 175 and 185
(currently the Division of Retirement) and police/fire unions have
often had a contentious relationship. The Division frequently views
its role as that of “guardian” of Ch. 175 and 185, even going so far as
to negate city and local police/fire union agreements on pension
benefits or the use of insurance premium tax revenues.
? Prior to 1999, cities were largely free to bargain with local police and
fire unions, or provide for their non-unionized police and
firefighters, the pension benefits that best fit the priorities and
needs of the city and its police/fire.
? The first bill passed by the legislature in 1999 was a major Ch. 175
and 185 rewrite.
? 99-1 requires all plans to meet the specific Ch. 175/185 “minimum
benefit” standards.
? 99-1 requires all plans to provide “extra benefits” to police and
firefighters.
? 99-1 substantially revises how cities use insurance premium tax
revenues (note original intent).
? 99-1 requires additional insurance premium tax revenues over a
base amount to be used to provide additional or “extra” pension
benefits to police/fire.
? “Extra benefits” is defined as benefits in addition to those given to
general employees and in existence in a police/fire pension plan after
March 12, 1999.
? The March 12, 1999 date punishes cities that offered heightened
pension benefits to their police/fire prior to March 12, 1999.
? In aggregate numbers, cities have had to provide over $400 million in
“extra” pension benefits to police/fire since March 12, 1999. $400
million is the amount of additional insurance premium tax revenues
over the base amount.
? City taxpayers have funded $400 million in pension costs while at the
same time an additional $400 million in tax proceeds was required to
be spent on new or extra pension benefits for police and firefighters.
? 99-1 did not specify exactly what “extra” benefits must be provided.
? Examples of extra benefits that have been negotiated include:
? An increased benefit multiplier (multipliers of 3%, 3.5%, 4% and even higher)
? Yearly cost-of-living adjustments
? Lower retirement ages
? A 13th monthly pension check
? The creation of “share plans”, a DC plan funded with additional insurance premium
tax revenues that is in addition to the required DB plan
? Effect of 99-1 and other state mandates has been to massively increase
cities’ funding liabilities and to create a structural deficit that worsens
with every passing year.
? As a result, many cities are paying amounts equal to 50, 60, and 70
percent of a police officer of firefighter’s salary toward funding their
pensions.
? By comparison, counties and the state typically pay only 20 to 25% for
employees in the Special Risk Class (police and firefighters) of the FRS.

Disability Presumptions

? Section 112.18, Florida Statutes, establishes a disability
presumption for firefighters and police officers who suffer any
health condition caused by hypertension or heart disease. The
presumption is that the condition occurred because of the job.
? The presumption may be “overcome” only upon meeting a
high evidentiary standard.
? The presumption is frequently used to obtain workers’
compensation and disability pension benefits.
? Removal of the presumption does not mean that firefighters
and police officers are not entitled to workers’ compensation
or disability pension benefits, rather it means that they would
have to show entitlement to the benefit just like every other
benefit claimant.

Subsidized Insurance Coverage for Retirees

? Section 112.0801, Florida Statutes, requires every
governmental entity that provides life, health, accident,
hospitalization, or any other kind of insurance for its
officers and employees to allow retirees, and their eligible
dependents, the option to continue to participate in the
insurance plan.
? Retirees and their eligible dependents must be offered
the same health and hospitalization insurance coverage
as is offered to active employees at a premium cost of no
more than the premium cost applicable to active
employees.
? This is a significant other post-employment benefit
(OPEB) mandate on government employers.

Pension Reform Proposals

1. Stop the “extra” pension benefits mandate. Allow cities to use insurance
premium tax revenues to pay for the current level or a reduced level of
pension benefits for police/fire.
2. Allow cities to unilaterally transition to the FRS, defined contribution
plans, or another pension program for fire/police and continue to receive
insurance premium tax revenues to pay for the pension expenses.
3. Require that determinations of average final compensation for police/fire
include salary only, and do not include pay for overtime, unused leave
times, or any other additional payments.
4. Allow collective bargaining to provide for greater police/fire plan
member contributions without the requirement to provide greater
pension benefits.
5. Require a majority of the pension board of trustees not to be pension
plan members.
6. Allow cities to meet the minimum benefits requirement in Ch. 175/185 by
providing pension benefits that in the aggregate exceed the Ch. 175/185
minimums.
7. Allow cities to unilaterally establish one or more Ch. 175/185 plans or a
“tiered” plan (such as, providing a different level of pension benefits for
new hires) without losing insurance premium tax revenues.
8. Require budget oversight of pension boards of trustees, and require a
detailed accounting of pension board of trustees’ expenses.
9. Allow cities desiring to place fire/police into the Special Risk Class of the
FRS the opportunity to purchase past credit service at an up to 3%
annual accrual rate rather than the current up to 2%.
10. Restrain the state Division of Retirement’s non-rule based administrative
activities and restrict the Division’s broad interpretations of the
provisions in Chapters 112, 175 and 185, FS, that result in increased
pension costs to cities.
11. Remove statutory disability presumptions for firefighters and police
officers claiming disability pension or workers’ compensation benefits.
12. Remove statutory requirements that governmental entities offer
subsidized health, hospitalization and other insurance coverage to
retirees.




FD Bro'

And your Point Is???

Don't you have a Fire Department Board that you can post your stuff on?

And your Point Is???

Don't you have a Fire Department Board that you can post your stuff on?

You better wake up if you think this pension information does not effect you. There is an attempt to run rough shod over our pension system that needs to be fought against. We were able to defeat the bills earlier this year through dilligence on the part of the unions. You better hope that continues or the carpet will be pulled right out from under you.

This FD Bra guy needs to figure out the concept of being concise. He posts volumes of blather that nobody is ever going to sift through.
Hey, dummy, quit posting your copy-and-paste gibberish. Just summarize what you have to say and what your point is, stupid.

This FD Bra guy needs to figure out the concept of being concise. He posts volumes of blather that nobody is ever going to sift through.
Hey, dummy, quit posting your copy-and-paste gibberish. Just summarize what you have to say and what your point is, stupid.

Hey fire tool bag. FD Bro' is eating your lunch. I'm less interested in what most anybody personally thinks about a lot of stuff on this board and would rather focus on the facts. Since neither he nor you are a decisionmaker when it comes to my pension, I'd rather read what he's got to post about those who can steal it from me rather than have you "summarize" about what you read somewhere else. I noticed that no one from the PBA of FOP is claiming credit for having it or holding it or thinking about posting it so I'm happy to get it and not someone's summary of it. I think the fire guys are a leg up on us. At least they have information to share.

Here's a newsflash for you, dummie, there's this new thing called google out there. If you want to read news fact, stupid, then search the internet. This website is for subjective discussion, dimwit.

None of the Unions are gonna post on this useless site of fiction. Go talk to them or read the boards like i do. There is information on them.

Here's a newsflash for you, dummie, there's this new thing called google out there. If you want to read news fact, stupid, then search the internet. This website is for subjective discussion, dimwit.

Here's a news flash for you dummie. The word is spelled d-u-m-m-y. And while not everyone on here is interested in everything that appears here, the majority can maintain enough decorum to simply read without commenting on ev-er-y-thing.

Remember, Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a dummie than to open it and remove all doubt.

So what is your point, out of all of the garbage in the original post?

Thanks to the Fire Dept post, there is real info here. If you want to just rant about meaningless stuff, go ahead, but some of us like to read relevant info, know where it comes from, get enough info for follow-up. Since the PD union reps don't share much info here, if you're not in the station, you don't know it. If you call the city, good luck getting a straight answer.

You can bypass the facts if YOU want. Afterall, Chief Harmon and staff prefer you be ignorant.