Local Prez 'says' what you were thinking...

I believe Police and Fire should be paid significantly more on the front end but that we ALL need to come up with a solution to better control overall backend costs. The significant reduction of tax revenue in our state is being passed on to local governments and forcing some very painful cuts to budgets.

The 11% increase to the city's budget to just cover cost-of living increases to the Police budget is too much. That is not mean they don't deserve it and does not mean you have to cut it. Just means we all have to be more creative with budgeting so that the Police and Fire Department's requests for new equipment and staffing can be met more quickly. Look around the country and see how many communities have had to restructure their contracts to better control costs while meeting/exceeding the needs of their Police and Fire resources.

Several bloggers have tried to make this into a public vs private sector debate or an attack on me personally. I challenge you to put all that passion and energy into working with others to come up with solutions to these problems.

I am a huge advocate of the Police force and work with them on resolving neighborhood issues almost daily. They are always professional and do an outstanding job.

I'd meet with anyone on this blog who has challenged me anytime anywhere to discuss these issues. Again, you've been unleashing your personal attacks on someone's spin of my opinion and that's a major waste of energy and time. I hope in 2008 you will put that energy toward positive dialogue about gaining more public support during contract time! You deserve it so I hope you will stop denying to yourself.

Hope each of you has a wonderful holiday!

First of all the budget cuts are not going to affect the city as much as they say. Its funny how they want to cram their predicted shortfalls but fail to mention trhe massive increase over the past several years, the unprecidented amount of new construction and the continued annexation. On December 18 the City just annexed more of the feather sound area. We now go on the north side of ulmerton road west of roosevelt.

In the last year alone they have built a 5 million plus airport terminal, new waterfront park that nobody will use and forgave a mass amount of debt for the international museum.

Now lets talk about the increased police budget. I'd like to know where all the money is that they are saving from the lack of manpower. Anyway you slice the ACTUAL number of officers you will come up about 60 short!

Do you wonder why we can't retain officers? We are spead very thin with a call load that exceeds any area agency, the level of in oprogress and violent calls is higher then any area agency, the pay is lower than most area agencies and our manpower levels are far below what they should be. We have half the officers of TPD or the PCSO! Why would anyone want to stay here?

Now consider the one thing our staff refuse to acknowledge..... very poor morale ! That aklone will ruin your retention. Now the City is about to offer a contract that reduces benefits and lacks a pay raise that even equals the cost of living.

There is no way to compare public service to the private sector!

Lets just sit back and watch as we lead the state in attrition for the sixth straight year.

[FD Bro']

I'd meet with anyone on this blog who has challenged me anytime anywhere to discuss these issues. Again, you've been unleashing your personal attacks on someone's spin of my opinion and that's a major waste of energy and time.

The blog itself is a great place to air your grievances.

Speaking to any one of us - one on one, allows you to potentially misquote ("spin," as you put it) others such as President Newton, and that would be unforgivable. As to your claimed conversation with him - it's really irrelevant. There's your original letter to John Bryan and there's President Newton's reply. You're here now and with the power of the bully pulpit you can speak your mind with the clear understanding that you've got an excellent chance of reaching a wider audience with your 'facts'.

To be perfectly fair; you may have some grounds for grievance - as your original letter to the former Councilperson has not been displayed in this forum. I'm surprised that you haven't produced it, as it is the foundation for your agenda. To not do so, would be "...a major waste of energy and time."

At the very least, for the sake of truth and clarity, I'd ask you to please post it so that others cannot be accused of relentlessly spinning your words.

If, for some reason you can't find a good reason to post the aforementioned letter, I have access to it and will display it without any spin.

Again, I reiterate -- we're all here now. There's no better chance to make your true intentions known to a wider audience than that with which 'you' propose in a one on one exchange with any one of us.

I believe Police and Fire should be paid significantly more on the front end but that we ALL need to come up with a solution to better control overall backend costs. The significant reduction of tax revenue in our state is being passed on to local governments and forcing some very painful cuts to budgets.

Yeah... you keep working on a "solution."

Like Mayor Baker and the majority of Council who follows his every-turn - it's obvious that you've not been listening, either.

If the truth be known -- with your agenda in hand, you will not fix the current situation we've been placed in. But 'we' will.


FD Bro'
PS- Thank you Mayor Baker. By supporting you in your last two election bids, you now repay us by stealing half of the Police and Fire Drill Grounds by extending an otherwise unused park onto our training property. I hope any possible attempt you make at running for higher office is met with the approval of ALL of the LEO's and Fire Fighters of the state of Florida. We'll be waiting for you at the polls.

Mr. Newton makes valid points and so does Scott Swift.

Please understand that the taxpayers have been slammed with increasing property taxes, not to mention home owners insurance, gas prices, etc. Many of us in the private sector are really struggling to put a measly 5% in our 401ks (which means never retiring). Many don't even have a 401k. Many of us have more than one job and only 2 weeks a year of vacation. I think this is what Scott is alluding to when he mentions a "gap." That's not to say that public employees don't deserve their benefits- it's just to say that many of those who are funding it are barely scraping by and there is a HUGE disparity. While Mr. Newton makes excellent points about city employees having to work during emergencies, I think this only accounts for a portion of that gap. Many tax payers, such as health care workers, are also expected to work during emergencies for extended shifts with little notice. There is not additional compensation for them. While I don't personally agree with this, I'll play devil's advocate and say that this is where many tax payers are coming from.

I agree that there are other opportunities for budget cuts. But I would also argue that maybe the pension could be scaled down somewhat and those who work during emergencies could receive generous premium pay or other additional compensation that does not create a long term liability.
Ideally, it would be nice if we could all pool our creativity and find a way for all of us to have the similar access to retirement and health care instead of playing tug o war between public and private sectors.

The pension is partially funded by officers and the city, the remainder comes from investment returns. If you want a good pension be a cop or firefighter and stop whinning. If you don't want a pension continue working your job and fund your own 401K. But at any rate stop whinning.

To anyone who feels that public servants do not earn their pension, I say this.... I have been shot at 3 times, I have been in countless fights, punched, spit upon, cussed at and called every name in the book. I have been in the middle of 3 riots and have arrested countless criminals, all in the name public safety. Cops do their jobs. Our pay is not all that great, but it provides a decent living. Our Pension is what keeps us working at such a thankless job. Now when Joe the lawyer, or Frank the dentist, or Sally the banker can say that they do their jobs in the public interest and they face the dangers and crappy conditions that most public safety workers do on a regular basis, well then I'll agree that they too deserve a better pension. But until they have walked in my shoes for well over 20 years, I say they don't know what they're talking about. If they'd like a community without any law and order, then screw with the pensions of hard working public safety workers. The average Joe does not want, nor could they handle a public safety job. If they could, they would also get that "great" pension. The fact is that they don't face a worn out body or the same stress related illnesses most cops, firefighters and EMT's have to deal with as they age. That is the main reason we have a decent pension. It is so that those few years we generally have of life after the job aren't spent being a drain on the larger systems that are being sucked up by people who have not earned theirs. What's next? You want to deny benefits to the Military too?

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it....

[FD Bro']

The average Joe does not want, nor could they handle a public safety job. If they could, they would also get that "great" pension. The fact is that they don't face a worn out body or the same stress related illnesses most cops, firefighters and EMT's have to deal with as they age. That is the main reason we have a decent pension. It is so that those few years we generally have of life after the job aren't spent being a drain on the larger systems that are being sucked up by people who have not earned theirs. What's next? You want to deny benefits to the Military too?

Stick that in your pipe and smoke it....

Truer words were never spoken, Bro'/Sis...


Posted: 12/25/07 09:05:40
The 11% increase to the city's budget to just cover cost-of living increases to the Police budget is too much. That is not mean they don't deserve it ->>

So you're not saying we "don't deserve it." Thanks.

<<-and does not mean you have to cut it.

Kudos - I'm beginning to like your thinking! Thanks again!

Just means we all have to be more creative with budgeting so that the Police and Fire Department's requests for new equipment and staffing can be met more quickly.

As to your notion that we need to be more "...creative with budgeting" - I find this language to be repugnant. It's because of this city's creativity with budgeting, that the Fire Fighters pension is underfunded by nearly $70,000,000.00

Your use of the word "creative" is code for EITHER/OR.

CODE= You have a choice: forthcoming pay raises and pension improvements befitting public safety professionals working for the the fourth largest city in the most densely populated county in the state ---OR--- fulfill "requests for new equipment and staffing..."


Posted: 12/26/07 18:56:12
Many of us in the private sector are really struggling to put a measly 5% in our 401ks (which means never retiring). Many don't even have a 401k. Many of us have more than one job and only 2 weeks a year of vacation. I think this is what Scott is alluding to when he mentions a "gap."

Not knowing what it is that you do for work, I'll guess that you don't work as a Postal Worker, Railroad Worker, Law Enforcement Officer or Fire Fighter/Paramedic. I'm not going to throw you a backhanded remark by saying, "You should have looked into government work" because people have the right to choose what it is that they like to do and ignore other work they either don't like or cannot perform because it's too physically or mentally demanding.

The 5% that you invest in your retirement, goes to a Defined Contribution fund. The 7% that I invest in my retirement, goes to a Defined Benefit fund. The Defined Benefit fund is the defacto standard in Public Safety. It's the plan we demand and it exists because of who we are and what we do for the citizenry!

That's not to say that public employees don't deserve their benefits->>

As with Mr. Swift - I thank you, too!

<<-it's just to say that many of those who are funding it are barely scraping by and there is a HUGE disparity.

I'd be more inclined to buy into your "disparity" notion or Mr. Swift's "gap" notion if:

A select few among us didn't have to drive around in white cars wearing light green uniforms after dark, while being targeted by hostile people with guns.

Or, how 'bout this one:

A select few among us didn't have to hear from the neighbors, "Your medics found the parents in the backyard. They got burned pretty badly trying to go back into the house. The baby's room is the second one down the hall, but I think it's too late!"




Meaning absolutely no disrespect to either one of you -- but come the day you catch a bullet for someone in green or step on a dead body in a smoke filled hallway at 3am - then, and only then do I believe you have a compelling argument about "gaps" and "disparities" between your pension plan and ours.


FD Bro'

Reality check: The pension is what keeps police and fire on the job. You will not keep officers in this type of work on a 401k. The job can be very stressful and I'm sure most people thank real hard about hanging it up from year to year.

The pension is what makes us work through it. I don't think the city wants officers cashing in there 401Ks after a couple years and moving to anywhere USA. Its like the military, take away the benefits and your enlistment rolls will dive.

Anyone who thinks a 401K is good for America is an idiot. A recent poll said the average American has 6K in retirment savings. In about 20 years the reality of 401k are going to hit the federal goverment rolls so hard.

To the lady who said she could never retire because she can only afford to put 5% in your 401K. Instead of working against pensions, I think you woul be better off advocating against 401Ks. You are a prime example of their nation wide failure. Property taxes suck I know, but so does state income taxes, which we don't have. Goverment workers are not going to work for free or at subpar rates or are we going into the middle of a riot for the same pay as the guy who works for verizon.

It is truly amazing how many instances there are on this blog where people are trying to put negative spin or put words in the mouth of virtually everything some members of the public share. Hello these people support you and think you should earn more. I understand this blog is for you to share frustration, thoughts, opinions, but isn't public support important to you? I have not read one word from Mr Swift or the young lady that they support converting you to 401k plans or cutting your pensions without some other solutions where you would earn more during your career. The private sector is just sharing about the growing gap in retirement benefits that affects ALL of us and may cause serious problems ove rthe next 10-25 years. You guys might get greater political and private sector support during contract time if you at least acknowledged this growing problem. There's a million ways to solve it where we can all earn more and enjoy a better retirement. But has to start with a WE instead of an US vs THEM willingness to solve it.

There's a million ways to solve it where we can all earn more and enjoy a better retirement. But has to start with a WE instead of an US vs THEM willingness to solve it.

Another one that wants a badge...

I suspect you need to apply your words of wisdom over on the "I'm a Closet Socialist" board. You'll get better traction, there.