Here is what it's going to take...........

I agree with you senior leo, the administration needs to listen to the officers about better pay and benefits. Do we really want a union? I know we don't need one. Just the thought of a union causes frustration. We need more open communication. We need to establish good leadership based on trust and respect. The leaders become the facilitators. I feel we can become our own union. What more can a union do? make threats? strike? etc.... Thats not what were about, we are above that. Really, think about it. We need to get with the administration or supervisors and lay out some issues, just like a union would do, only better, because it would come from us. Be positive it will work out. Take care

In a perfect world, we wouldn't need a union. The Chief should be able to hear the issues and address them.
I have sat on a few advisory board meetings since I've been here. Issues have been brought to his attention. In many cases, they weren't addressed. In some cases, he was very rude while dismissing it resulting in officers refusing to serve on the advisory board again.
We need higher pay, better benefits, and more officers both on the street and in specialty units such as CIU. It isn't all Chief's fault. He can prepare a budget and submit it. The City Manager and the Commission have to sign off on it. Check the records to see when the City last raised property taxes which accounts for a good chunk of our budget. I think it is over 20 years now. It was stated in an earlier post how Chief had previously put together a good pay raise for us only to see the commission reject it at the last minute. The reason for it is the commission wasn't obligated to accept the budget as it was presented. On the other hand, if the raise was part of a negotiated contract, the commission would most likely have accepted it.
I have worked here through two administrations and listened to various promises about how Chief Surrency/Chief McDaniel can get us better benefits and pay without a union. It hasn't happened despite this same discussion having came up at least 4-5 times since I've been here.
As employees, Florida law does not require the city to bargain with us for raises or benefits. They do have to bargain with a union.
I can understand if you came from a department with a weak union. Some officers/deputies have been screwed by their union (Teamsters comes to mind). Others have benefited from going union. They received a higher pay and better benefits then they would normally have received.
When HCSO deputies first voted on a union, the sheriff was interviewed by the Tampa Tribune. He stated he was against the union because he would have to pay the deputies more.
This holds true with all agencies. They won't pay more unless there is a need. The need has to be compelling and it isn't simply due to an agency losing officers faster than they can hire them. The commission is made up of citizens who are voted into office. Any commissioner consistently voting for higher taxes to pay for higher wages and benefits to city employees will soon find himself voted out of office unless he can defend his decision (I had not choice, it was a negotiated contract, etc).

Based on what you said the city would benefit if they gave the dept. a good raise and better benefits. The money it's losing when officers go to other agencies is overwhelming. A big plus for the dept. I know the community is behind you and with the economic growth I don't think taxes would be a problem. In the long term everyone would profit. It would be easy to put this on paper and show them that they could save money. Keep up the good work and be safe.

Based on what you said the city would benefit if they gave the dept. a good raise and better benefits. The money it's losing when officers go to other agencies is overwhelming. A big plus for the dept. I know the community is behind you and with the economic growth I don't think taxes would be a problem. In the long term everyone would profit. It would be easy to put this on paper and show them that they could save money. Keep up the good work and be safe.

The police department and community would profit from retaining experienced officers. The issue for the city is not if they want to retain the officers, but how. Everything from pay to benefits to uniforms and vehicles cost money, not just for the police department but for every department in the city.
For the most part, police officers have been receiving the same raises as every other employee in the city except for ones classified as executive level (Chief, Fire Chief, City Manager, etc). Their raises and salaries are negotiated separately (In some cases by contract which outlines benefits, terms of termination, etc). This requires coming up with a budget commissioners will sign off on.
Commissioners have to deal with the bottom line, how much does it cost. They are not involved in the human factor-the day to day lives of city employees. They don't know who you or your family are. They aren't aware if you have any money left after bills. As far as they are concerned, you are receiving adequate pay and compensation. Lets face it, we are receiving more than many city employees (parks, sanitation, etc).
You did notice the significant increase in your take home pay this fiscal year didn't you? The pay raise we received this year and last like every year was negotiated for us without our input.
For budget purposes, it is cheaper to have a one year officer than a 15 year officer. It saves money if you are authorized 75 officers, but for most of the year you only have 65. You don't have to pay the extra salaries and benefits, you have 10 patrol cars not accumulating mileage or requiring repairs.
I know the argument is to trust the administration to take care of you and forget about unions. It would be easier to accept that if they had a track record of taking care of us. To date, they do not.
We do not have a voice or a say so. We can not go into a counsel meeting and request a raise. We can not go to commissioners and lobby for benefits. We have to be very careful what we say for fear we may violate SOP regarding putting the department in a bad light (we are losing officers left and right due to low pay, poor benefits, indifferent administration, etc).
In the end, it requires an outside agency to lobby on our behalf who can not be penalized for speaking the truth and standing up for us.

Here is something else to throw out. While there is consideration to cut the contribution for retirement back to 10%, we should seek means to have a larger impact on our life. 3.75% in most cases is less than $40.00 a week before taxes.

Some examples are this: cut the retirement contribution to half or more-other agencies such as Tampa offer comparable retirements with contributions as low as 3%.
Keep the same contributions and raise benefits-include quality medical benefits, cost of living etc.
Change the formula for calculating pensions-best 3 years out of the last 5 and yearly pay should not be calculated using a Jan 1-Dec 31 method. It should be from the date of retirement counting backwards. This will generally give you a higher retirement.

Our pension fund is doing very well. We are not taking a loss and are in no danger of taking one. After over 5 years at the same rate with the same benefits, it is time to reassess and either provide better benefits or drastically cut the contribution rate.

Remember, the retirement fund is there to benefit us.

I agree we need to look at either lowering the amount paid to the retirement or increase benefits

Hey PCPD Officers and particularly "Bravo" squad! Well fellas, I was sworn in today at TPD, pseudo sworn in that is, so we can get paid, with the big ceremony scheduled for Thursday the 15th.

That said, I miss you guys and particularly my old squad and it goes without saying, but I'll say it regardless, it was not easy for me to leave PCPD. I hated to leave the good people that I care about. I left for some reasons of my own, the money is not the least of them. There were some leadership issues that were equally disheartening though and I didn't see any light at the end of the tunnel in regards to either of them in the near future.

I agree that the money is not the be all and end all of the issues with the department but when you're having a hard time making ends meet it becomes the trees hiding the forrest. I'm speaking mostly of those with families and the single folks as well, who like myself, were netting about $2200/month or so. I believe the union is likely and most probably the best course of action but I understand and so should those who vote for the union, that it will be a rough road to hoe for a few years until things begin to improve but worth it in the end.

Above all else guys, I'm worried for your safety because of the lack of manning on the street and yes I understand my leaving didn't help that problem. All of the previous posts about the lack of manpower are correct and true but sadly, I don't believe if one or two of you gets hurt badly, or heaven forbid, your life/lives taken in the line of duty, that the city leadership will do more than a gratuitous eulogy for you, then slide right back into the status quo. If that sounds harsh it is meant to but I believe that's how it would play out.

The powers that be in Plant City have ignored and are ignoring the warning signs of ever increasing crime and violent crime in the city. But, there can be no doubt, that nothing, NOTHING, will be done to hire, train and keep good officers until one of those, who have the gold and make the rules, has some horrible criminal act perpetrated against them or one of their family members. It's not a scenario I wish for but one only need read the PC Dispatch and sit in on a meeting or two at city hall to get a feel for how little, those in positions of authority in the city government, care about or consider police officers that patrol the streets.

Most of you have my number and know that you are in my thoughts and prayers as I hope I am in yours. I love ya and miss ya and all things being equal and the world being round, I will hopefully see you again here and there. Stay shoulder to shoulder and when need be, back to back and take care of each other because what has been said is true....YOU ARE ALL YOU'VE GOT...... Dave Han****

HEY GUYS! I have been checking up on all of you since I left, and I am truly concerned with the man power shortage in fear that someone is going to get hurt. YES like Dave I know I did nothing to help that by leaving but after several years of the same problems, I could take no more.

From what I keep reading it sounds like a bad marrage. One side keeps telling the other what they are having problems with and it falls on deaf ears. I know it takes all parties to fix the problem but thats it, it takes ALL not just the chief. I know in a meeting I had with the chief several years ago he told me that he did not care about me or anyone else at the department. His only concern was having a body in his police car. If it was not me then it would be one of his many applicants that dropped off applications daily. I walked out of his office and felt so degraded. I tried to understand the logic but could not. Why would he not be concerned about loosing an officer, if not me at least any officer. Even passing in the hallway and him ignoring everyone that passed by when they spoke to him. I dont know but it seems to me that the big change from the chief coming into roll calls, talking, coming to calls, hanging out in the trenches with the troops was when all the problems with the grand jury came about. Ever since then he seemed to not care.

With the budget I understand that the city has to approve it, but why does it seem like the employees are the out casts. Not just police & fire but all departments. I have talked to several old timers and have been told that it has been that way for so many years. According to many way before most of us were even born. So I know it is not all the chiefs fault he can only do what the city lets him do, but it seems like he has not been doing as much as he can do to help since the problems. I know him and Capt. Borders used to read this every day. I wonder if they quit yet or if they still visit?

The union is going to be rough for a couple of years, but who knows it could pay off! If the chief and city would be open to sit down and talk in earnest to fix the problems there may be no reason for it. I spoke to some guys at the FD and they said the problems they were having is no civil service at the city (IE civil service test.) Therefore the city only has to recognise the union. NOT NEGOTIATE with them. This also needs to be changed ASAP. This will take away the AT WILL status also for you guys.

On a better note, I have heard that the chief is going to hire some people and pay them while they go through the academy. I hope this helps out guys. Well im going to go for now I wish all of you the very best!!! STAY SAFE, Ill pray for you lord knows you need it out there! It's only getting rougher.

PS I know I miss-spelled words and sentence structure is wrong but really in the scheme of it who cares/ get over it. We all have more important things to worry about than posting about that. Its the message behind the words you guys are trying to get out, rather than being school teachers.

I understand that officers/supervisors at PCPD are unhappy. Quite frankly, I would love to make more money just like everyone else. As everyone knows, the problem is not really what we make, it is what we bring home.

I do not believe a union is the answer to the problems here at PCPD. I believe the Chief is trying to make changes that will benefit us. I know that he has worked on the pension reduction which goes before the City Commission in the next few weeks and should be approved to drop from 13.6% to 10.8%. The pension is doing great and I hope that we see our contributions continue to drop but we need to realize that it is not going to happen overnight.

Also, I know that the Chief is trying to get us the pay raise that we NEED and DESERVE. Yes, it has to be approved by the City Commission. Is the City Commission out of touch? Probably so. Because on paper it looks like our pay is good. I have seen a spreadsheet that the Chief prepared which shows the starting pay for our agency LESS the cost of insurance and cost of pension and compares it to agencies in our area. This should clue the Commission that even though our pay appears comparable to other agencies that IN REALITY WE BRING HOME LESS THAN MOST.

I also understand that everyone is frustrated due to manpower shortages. I have been working on recruiting and we have been getting in some good applicants. We have worked on speeding up our hiring
process and that should also help out. A lot of you have referred people recently and I thank everyone who has helped with recruiting efforts. Please keep sending people our way!!!!

BOTTOM LINE - The Chief has made some decisions in the past that I did not agree with and allowed things to slide for too long. BUT, I believe that he is trying to turn things around and we have the best opportunity RIGHT NOW to work on changing things that we are unhappy with. He is willing to listen to you but you need to step up and talk to him. He does not read LEOAFFAIRS so posting complaints here is not enough. Many of our current supervisors are not watching out for us and are not bringing concerns from the troops to the Chief. Myself and any of the other EAB Members are willing to take your concerns to the Chief. REMEMBER, IF U WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE THEN U NEED TO BE WILLING TO MAKE AN EFFORT TO HELP MAKE CHANGES.

Signe, I realize you are trying to find the silver lining in the cloud hanging over PCPD and applaud you for your efforts. Unfortunately, the cloud largely consists of chief. I have been around him enough to know he is aware of many of the issues facing the officers and has been aware of them for years. His approach to these problems are to 1. wait for it to die down 2. say he will look into it 3. find someone to blame for it being an issue 4. offer something inconsequential to divert attention 5. promote, demote, or reassign someone 6. say he will try to get it passed by the commission.

Some of the earlier posts gave alternatives, if we're not going union, we should try them. Frankly, a reduction of 3% from what we pay into the pension falls into category #4. It amounts to approx $30.00 a week before taxes (we know what happens to it after taxes). Either obtain a greater reduction or increase benefits.

Polk, as stated above, it's good to focus on the "positive changes" they are making. No one disagrees with that. Our pay is in no way comprable to other local agencies. We are getting shafted on our benifits for what we pay. We are working in ridiculously unsafe working conditions. You come to work every day knowing that it could be your last moments of life, but damn, the city AND the department don't seem to care much about officer safety at all. We'll never feel we have enough officers. I don't know of any officer who comes to work and says "we need less people", but hell our zones are all understaffed on almost every shift. It's not just pay, even though that is a HUGE issue we are facing. Im not saying the union is the only way to go, but I do believe it's a better way to go! With a city so out of touch with it's police force, and an administration who's forgot what it's like to be an officer, there needs to be extreme changes made. That being said, I believe our new EAB, you included, are doing an excellent job! Everyone can see the small changes being made, but the big ones are what we are looking for most. That takes some time and we can all accept that, but progression needs to be made on a larger scale.