Jail or road patrol

It sounds that more people are not being offered road patrol and are instead offered jail. According to the website if you have a four year degree you dont have to go through working for the jail. Does anyone know the reason. Do they just not need anymore road patrol right now? Any insight would be appreciated I am very intrested in this department.

If you qualify for the road, you will be offered a raod position. Most people who apply do not meet the minimum qualifications for the road and have to start in the jail first.

I have to say that the recruits we get on the road who start first in the jail have a huge advantage in knowng the agency, it's members and the inmates they deal with most from the jail. They breeze through the FTO program and are very prepared for doing an excellent job as a road deputy.

The nice thing is that if you have to start in the jail first, you are not losing anything!! The pay is the same as a road deputy and you are getting time in the retirement system as well as tenure with the agency.

It is a win, win situation. I hope you apply no matter which side of the house you qualify for. :)

Qualifying does not neccessarily mean you would go to the road. I have a 4 year degree, all good grades, same job my whole life, clean background, and interview like a champ.

I was only offered the jail. When asked they said they only hire about 1 out of 100 that apply for the road, and send them to the road. Everyone else goes to the jail.

Whereas i understand the reasoning, that those in the jail get preference to transfer over, i would do my time in the jail, but with having a degree i didnt spend all that money on college and time and effort to be in a jail.

If you have a degree and interview well, ANY of the surrounding agencies will put you right on the road, try lee county, they hired me and sent me straight for the road.

Applicant24,

I was not aware they were doing that. In fact, if that is happening, it would piss me off because we (Employees) promote this agency and we tell people what the policy is. If HR is changing policy at their descretion, then someone needs to know about it.

In your case, ask to speak to the head of HR and if that does not work then please post and let us know. I will find a person you can contact to get this right! Policy is policy and it needs to be followed!

Please keep us updated so we may help you!

This is not the first time I have heard of this. If this is true then I feel it is wrong and misleading. If a person wants to go to the road and they qualify then they should go to the road. To go through the process only to be offered a jail position is a waste of time for that applicant and the agency. I say the agency because if that applicant wanted to go to the jail first then that is what they would have applied for. I am sure that qualified applicant does not take the jail position and is forced to go to another agency that was not their first choice only to work the road as they were qualified to do.

I will call someone now and try to get an answer to this question and post it back on this site so we all know why this would happen and what can be done about it.

Sorry for the problem you had and I hope we can make it right. CCSO is a good place to work and I would hate to think we lost a good applicant because of something like this.

well i have a job now with another department so im not worried about it. But from the start they were guiding me towards the jail. After sending the application in i got the letter. It was two pages. Two paragraphs were about the interview and the week of processing. The other page and a half were about how i should consider the jail and its a worthwhile career, same benefits, 18 months then cross over, etc etc. The interview went awesome i felt i got along great with the two Sgts. that were interviewing me.

Two hours later i got a phone call saying that even though i was more than qualified to be a road candidate, theyhave a large list of people waiting to switch over from the jail, and the need for deputies is in the jail, not the road so thats what they could offer me.

I happened to be in the same hotel as two other people that interviewed the same day, both got the same phone call. One had a 4 year degree and was a marine. The funny part, all 3 of us went to the same sheriffs department in another county and all 3 of us are starting the academy together next class for the road.

Again, im not bitter at all. I totally understand about the people in the jail. If i had no college education i would have definetly accepted it and went that route, and i wasnt rude at all when i got the phone call, i told them i would want to look around elsewhere and try for a road spot. She siad thanks, and when i told her the next few places i was going to interview for she said she doubt i would be coming back t take the jail job then. No hard feelings at all, you guys look like a great agency, but im happy where i will be going now.

Again, im not bitter at all. I defeintly was qualified and met the requirements on the website for the road sponsorhip, but For all i know, i interviewed poorly. For all i know there were 12 interviews after me and they were all certified for the road already, and they didnt want to sponsor me through the academy. I just thought it was odd that another sheriffs department and two police departmetns offered me a sponsorhip through the academy and Collier didn't, because i hear they are always in need of people desperately. Maybe the boss told them they had to get X amount of jail deputies hired by a certain date and they called my bluff?

Anyway, no hard feelings. You have a great agency, but for all the potential candidates who go interivew, if you qualify for the road and you get pushed to the jail, then don't be affraid to apply elsewhere.

A member of HR returned my call and stated that situations such as yours rarely occur but it does happen every once in a while. The final decision is made at the Executive level and HR only provides the Executive staff with the files of those who have passed all of the agency requirements. It may have been due to future planning needs and not necessarily due to current needs or your personnel file.

I appreciate your attitude towards your particular situation and it sounds like the agency you work for has benefited from this rare occurrence. As they say, timing is everything.

I do know that just because you declined the offer to work in the jail it will not be held against you. So if you ever decide to reapply in the future, maybe everything will work out in your favor, with the experience you are gaining now being what is needed to tip the scales in your favor.

Good luck and stay safe out there!

Thanks for all the info guys. I am still thinking of trying to apply to CCSO. I hope it’s worth it. I live out of state and really want to start my career in southwest Florida. So it would be expensive trip to go down there and go through the process to find out they only are offering a jail position contraire to what their website states about having a four year degree.

Dan,

Its worth the trip. If you do the whole thing its like monday through friday mornings, you should be done by 2 every day, usually earlier. You'll know the first day by 4pm if your offered jail, road, both, or nothing. If you dont get the results you hoped for, go visit the other places that interest you in the area. Even if you sit on the beach for the rest of the week, its worth while lol.

But seriously, go for it. i went down with high hopes because i met all the requirements, and i always interview well. Maybe i didn't who knows. But with a 4 year degree and a clean background you wont have a problem getting hired somewhere in southwest florida.

Qualifying does not neccessarily mean you would go to the road. I have a 4 year degree, all good grades, same job my whole life, clean background, and interview like a champ.

I was only offered the jail. When asked they said they only hire about 1 out of 100 that apply for the road, and send them to the road. Everyone else goes to the jail.

Whereas i understand the reasoning, that those in the jail get preference to transfer over, i would do my time in the jail, but with having a degree i didnt spend all that money on college and time and effort to be in a jail.

If you have a degree and interview well, ANY of the surrounding agencies will put you right on the road, try lee county, they hired me and sent me straight for the road.

Qualifying does not neccessarily mean you would go to the road. I have a 4 year degree, all good grades, same job my whole life, clean background, and interview like a champ.

I was only offered the jail. When asked they said they only hire about 1 out of 100 that apply for the road, and send them to the road. Everyone else goes to the jail.

Whereas i understand the reasoning, that those in the jail get preference to transfer over, i would do my time in the jail, but with having a degree i didnt spend all that money on college and time and effort to be in a jail.

If you have a degree and interview well, ANY of the surrounding agencies will put you right on the road, try lee county, they hired me and sent me straight for the road.

it seems human resources has as much power as the sheriff. there is an application review board that consisits of civilian and certified members. is still unknown how the decisions on where people are assigned is made. ive talked to some road patrol deputies who where offered jail first and they turned down the offer. they were then contacted by human resources and offered a road patrol position. its almost no different then some coming here and going through f.t.o. and going straight to baliff. i don't have a degree and do not have former law enforcement experience. i started in the jail and later became dual certified and transferred to the road. i don't regret my time in the jail and still go back there for o.t. anyone who thinks the jail is beneath them just because of a degree should look a little further into what it takes to become a good c.o.

Nothing is wrong with working in the jail but it's not for everyone. Working in the jail and working the road are two entirely distinct careers. They are "intertwined" only because the agency allowed them to be. Again, nothing against corrections.

it seems human resources has as much power as the sheriff. there is an application review board that consisits of civilian and certified members. is still unknown how the decisions on where people are assigned is made. ive talked to some road patrol deputies who where offered jail first and they turned down the offer. they were then contacted by human resources and offered a road patrol position. its almost no different then some coming here and going through f.t.o. and going straight to baliff. i don't have a degree and do not have former law enforcement experience. i started in the jail and later became dual certified and transferred to the road. i don't regret my time in the jail and still go back there for o.t. anyone who thinks the jail is beneath them just because of a degree should look a little further into what it takes to become a good c.o.

And your point is what exactly? Also, stop being lazy and make a half hearted attempt to use capital letters where they should be or I might begin to believe the jail is beneath me!

My point is people are placed where the need is the greatest. As far as being lazy I don't think zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

As a former jailer and someone who rose throught he ranks, I have seen people come here straight to the road with 4 year degrees that could not find their way out of a patrol car and were afraid to beat the snot out of somebody when needed. If you satrt here just remember don't bad mouth the jail or the people in it. 60% of our road patrol division and half of our command staff (Captains and Above) started out in our jail.

[oldschool]

Well said. There is nothing wrong, and a whole boatload of things right, with going to the jail first. I went to college, on a criminal justice major, and I can truthfully say that nothing there gave me the slightest preparation for being a cop. On the other hand, working a jail gives you priceless experience on how the law and the system really work, on how to talk to people and deal with criminal mentalities, and how to actually do the job In a direct comparison, the people with corrections experience almost without exception are better rookies than those with no practical experience. At CCSO, the jail deputies are not given "preference" to go to the road; they must endure virtually the same process as a new hire applicant; the only difference is that they have, to some extent, paid their dues and shown their committment, for which they should recieve some consideration.
The bottom line is, most of us believe CCSO to be a cut above the average agency. If you REALLY want to be HERE, you wil do what you have to do. If the only thing you want is to be "on the road" then there are a number of agencies that will take you...I wish you luck in your endeavors, but from a career opportunity standpoint, I think you are trading a long term gain for a short term gratification....

I agree with you both, but I also think it should be a choice. If I wanted to work inside with inmates, I could have applied for a correctional job with the state of county. If you want to go to the road, and apply for the road, then you should get a shot at it. If they don't want to give people the shot, all the have to say is "no." I think it is crap someone applies for the road, completes the process, and is only offered a spot in the jail.

[oldschool]

They did say no. But it sounds like they felt you had sufficient potential that they offered you a position in the Corrections division. Had you accepted, you could have looked at your time there as a cross between a long job interview and an apprenticeship. If they didn't want you, they would have turned you down period.
I hve a question. When you were in your process, at some point the HR specialist assigned to you should have sat down with you and gone over a sheet of paper detailing salary and position, which you signed. Did the sheet say "Law Enforcement Deputy" on it, and then a month or two later after doing several other procedures your were contcted and offered a CO position, or did they offer you a CO position when the HR person went over the form with you?

I think the point here is that CCSO is advertising this great opportunity to work on the road if you have a four year degree, yet they are hiring very little for that position and instead offering jail. I think some feel they have been dragged through the process when jail was probably all CCSO was looking for in the first place. The first tip should have been when the applicant gets a reply in the mail that contains 2 pages of information of which 1 1/2 talks about why you should consider a jail position.
Don't get me wrong I believe you guys when you say that the jail experience is the best opportunity, but some just do not want to take that route. I think having a four year degree is a huge advantage, you might not have street experience but an education must mean something when most departments require some kind of education or college credits. I personally would probably consider taking a jail position first, but I can definitely see where the others are coming from.

Thats exactly my point, just simply state it from the start your not hiring for the road your hiring for the jail. I LOST ALL RESPECT for CCSO because of that.

You say "they offered you a jail position because they felt you had potential"???? ARE YOU ON CRACK? They offered the jail position cause they need people CASE NO ONE WANTS TO WORK IN THE JAIL. I dont think i ever met a person that wanted to work in a jail. Anyone that works in a jail is doing it with the hopes of going to the road.

You all sit here and talk about how great it is and gives you this great experience and try to talk it up. Thats cause you work there. Everyone on the outside looking in thinks its crazy. In the majority of the US the jails are not run by the sheriff, corrections is its own entity, so if your telling me that the majority of law enforcement officers arent as good as you because they didnt spend time in the jail than your just ignorant.

And all is hear is about this great agency and this great family. SO STOP MISLEADING people and take it off your website that they can work on the road with having a degree cause you all damn well no its not going t happen. I personally dont know how anyone with a degree would ever give in to the game and work in the jail when they can get sponsored through the academy for the road by just about every agency except collier in southwest florida.

[oldschool]

They Do hire people with degrees directly for the road. If they have somebody who has a degree but for whatever reason the hiring commitee does not feel they would yet be suitable for the Law Enforcement division, yet they still feel the person would develop into a good LE deputy, they will sometimes offer the person the Corrections option.
It has nothing to do with the jail being shorter than the road- they are both short . It has to do with the individual applicant, and how their process went- how they did on the psych, the interview, the background, etc. Hiring and placement decisions are made on a case by case basis. The applicant is free to ask to see their file after it has been completed, and at that time may view the reasons for the decisions made.
As for your assertion that working Corrections is something that no one wants to do, there are a number of fine deputies in every agency that elect to remain in the jail as a career choice. Others choose to move on to the Law enforcement side, and tend to be very good deputies, very quickly. I am an FTO and a trainer, and have worked for more than one agency in more than one state, and I can tell you that people who were COs have a MUCH shorter learning curve than people right out of an academy. Having spoken with many other people from many other states over the years, I have found this to be the case, in most states. I think you would be surprised to find how many cops all over the U.S. started by working at a jail or prison. It is not just a Florida thing.
And lastly, if you applied to CCSO and were turned down, well, I am sorry to hear that, but we have a set of standards that for whatever reason they felt you did not meet. If another agency hired you, great, and good luck there. Either way, be safe and stay well...

Old School Deputy.....the problem is, there are civilians making these decisions. Don't you think you and I are much more capable or picking a "good prospect" for the road. Civialians have way too much power in this department, and it pisses me off. Look at Shawn in the Fleet Department, this guy has been given way too much power. He has no idea what the road really needs. He is an idiot and I think it is clear the Sheriff has not been informed about this. I think the Lt's and Commanders and Chief's make it look "all ok" when in reality Shawn needs to be brought down a step or five. Old school, you can't tell me you don't agree with me on the civilian's having too much power.

just out of curiosity how does the fleet guy have too much power?? WHat is he ding that effects you, isnt his job just to service and repair vehicles?

flstar,
Obviously you don't work on the road in Collier, and if you do you would have to agree with me. Shawn takes pictures of people cars if he thinks they are messy, takes his time servicing them, and has no clue what REAL COPS need in their patrol cars. I have talked to people in the shop that have confirmed these alligations and they think the shop needs someone that understands the patrol needs or someone that will listen. Going back to the pictures; He has sent PRB/supervisors pictures or cars he thinks are messy because he can. He is a civilian with too much power and needs to be brought down a notch or tow. I am very faithful someone will agree with me on this topic and post a similar post. If the Sheriff knew of this mess from his troops, he would deal with it. I have faith in the Sheriff, but not in the upper Civilian Management.

flstar,
If I sounded as if I were attacking you, I appoligize. I was only firmley noting Shawn and the Fleet Crew cause many waves and have no idea what the guys and gals on patrol really need. There is not a way for us to express our feelings and concerns about his either. A fleet rating sheet after a vehicle mait. is a joke. I think the uppers need to be made aware of this issue if they already aren't.

Guest…

Obviously you are the same person that posted the thread about “Admin”.

I will tell you here the same that I stated to you in that thread. “You either have no experience in this profession (Rookie) or you have never worked any where else in your career.

I do not care where you go in the U.S. to be a cop but ALL agencies of any size use civilians in the exact manner we do. It is not that they have too much power that is really upsetting you. It is the inferred special treatment you are expecting from them just because you are a cop. You think that if another cop was in that job they could relate to “Everything” you are doing and sacrificing to be a cop and therefore would automatically approve everything on your wish list.

GROW UP… They do not care what you do or sacrifice to be a cop. They make the same sacrifices in their eyes having to put up with your “Holier than thou” cop mentality on a daily basis.

Shawn has a job to do just like you. You do not want him telling you how to do your job because he does not know what it takes to be a cop (According to you). So do not sit here and tell everyone how Shawn is not doing his job because you have no clue what his responsibilities are!

You said “Shawn and the Fleet Crew cause many waves and have no idea what the guys and gals on patrol really need”. Is that so? What do we really need? I have been a cop almost 20 years and the only thing I need from fleet is when I pick up my loaner car that it needs to be in good working order AND to get my assigned car back in a timely manner with the problems corrected.

You said “Shawn takes pictures of people cars if he thinks they are messy, takes his time servicing them” and “He has sent PRB/supervisors pictures or cars he thinks are messy because he can”. First of all, it is not only policy to keep your car in good condition but it is only common sense to live that way. If your car looks like a rolling drive-thru and smells like a dump then I am sure your uniform looks that way, your weapon looks that way and generally, everything you do in law enforcement is lazy and lacking! The condition of your car is an excellent way to judge the type of deputy you are! Furthermore hot shot, why would you expect them to endure smelling or working around your mess when you would not tolerate working around theirs?

You also said that Shawn “has no clue what REAL COPS need in their patrol cars”. Who do you think is the final authority on approving what the Sheriff buys for our patrol cars or judges our needs for our patrol cars? I suggest you “Shadow” Shawn for a day or two and learn that it is not him but a “Real Cop” that makes those decisions. Shawn’s only input is that what ever we do to the cars is to make sure we do it to ALL the cars (Uniformity) to make his job a little easier to work on. (You know how those cops ***** if the shop can not get your car back to you in less than 24 hours).

If you “think the uppers need to be made aware of this issue if they already aren't.” then submit a memo through your chain-of-command and be the hero suggesting the needed change. But, before you do that, I would suggest you “Shadow” Shawn for a day or two and learn exactly what he has to do, what he is responsible for and the CRAP he has to put up with on a daily basis from the “COPS”. Maybe then you will grow up and realize that there should not be a “COPS” versus “Civilians” attitude at CCSO but rather we are ALL people working together for a common goal.

Do not let titles of job positions allow you to lose sight of who we all really are!

CG

[Ten8hotel]

Well put George ! There's nothing I'm missing from my vehicle. Although sometimes I wish it were new or a Charger or had a cd player.... bottom line is, it's a patrol car!! Sometimes things break on it and it's a pain to get them fixed but the bill is never sent to me and the gas to and from work is sure cheap. I even totaled one once and got another one. Imagine that??? Sean doesn't decide what we get BUT takes ideas and tries to implement them for us. How is it now to get your radar and speedo calibrated and you don't have to disasemble it and ship it out? Sean got that for us....after he asked us to try it out a few times. Do you really want a cop doing a civi job.....like mobile data?? Just an observation, not a dig, but we have a Sgt doing a civi job there.
Tell the Sheriff Sean takes pictures of your car !!! I can quote him now. " make sure it's clean, like I were getting in it next"
Here's another clue. Want to know how to get a new car every 4 years??? EVERY time you drop it off, make sure it and the loaner you used is noticeably clean. SO what if you get it back dirty from the sandy lot. Someone that worked on it noticed and made a comment to others about your car always being above par. Of course you can always switch to Lee county and drive a pool car. Then you can yell at your fellow cops for their pig rig being a pig sty. One of these days I'll fall trying to get off my soapbox......

your right i dont work for collier was just wondering how the fleet guy was a problem.

And also lee only has pool cars for the first 3 years or so and you always have the same car and really only share it with one other person cause you can take it home overnight when your working but your days off it must be back at the station and someone else is using it. So its not that bad.

I think if collier did make you use pool cars for the first year you would really appreciate your own car much more, and always keep it clean.

I dont have a pool car anymore and always make sure mine is ammaculate, especially when it goes for service. Our service guys are awesome, but we are told day one that they will report you if your car is a total mess or abused. And by abused meaning intentional damage that in no way can be attributed to wear and tear (like we had some jerkoffs slamming the Ebrake down and blew out cylinders).

As for a getting a new car every few years its nice, but if your current assigned car is a mess than its your own fault. Mine is 3 years old now and you couldnt tell cause i treat it like its my own.

"Guest" - Your problems will not be solved by whining in this forum. Go make a complaint or just shut up. You sound like you're about 18 yrs old. If you are a whippersnapper, maybe a few years in the jail will help you grow into a man/woman (whatever you are). Or just go away and work elsewhere...construction, restaurants and retail is hiring.

Whoa there guest. Sean doesn't work on your car, although he used to turn a wrench for many years now he supervises the mechanics, scheduling repairs,scheduling his subordinates,purchasing vehicles,selecting vendors,fuel delivery,budget accountibility and I'm sure much more. If you don't know his name is spelled "Sean" then you've never sent him an email. Which means you're like those that don't vote but complain about who gets elected. Calling him an idiot is a strong opinion if you've never sent the man a simple email with your concerns in a well formated tactful email. Do you think if you comlain to your seargent that civilian supervisors are like Taliban he will surely pass this essential information to the Lt.? NO. They are concerned with more pressing issues such as crime stats,comstat,solved part 1 crimes and who stepped on their tool last nioht and P'ed off the citizen complaining about some deputy last night.

So nobody has stated that Sean does not turn people into PRB for things Sean thinks are incorrect. So you who defend him are defending a rat who hurts cops. Why do you all think he is such a wonderful guy? He is a rat.

Let me get this straight. You do not follow the rules and want to call someone who does a “Rat”?

Well, in my book the only thing that smells about this is you. Furthermore you stated that others would share your feelings or opinions. So far the only person who thinks like you is you so get a clue and move on.

As I have said before, it is deputies like you who keep PRB in business. Thanks for creating their job security!

For the record, I support Sean and the job he and his staff provide. Harvey was good but Sean is better. His job is not easy and one I would not like to have. He is the real professional and you could learn a lot by “Shadowing” him for a day or two. Or are you one of those who are afraid to accept a challenge if there is a chance you may be proven wrong?

Keep up that attitude and I can tell you from experience that you are in for a long, miserable career and I will be suffering beside you as I pay for your lack of maturity.

Enough said about this one!

Oh I know you...you're easy to spot. You wear the rose colored glasses and have that brown stain on the tip of your nose.

Paradise,
There are at least four different guest commenting here. It is not all the same person.

You are right. One of them is the same person who was stirring the pot last month and was warned by the Moderator because he/she went too far with their comments.

I do not mind debating an articulate discussion but I will not participate with someone when their only purpose is to stir the pot and belittle someone.

It is too bad that there seems to be one in every crowd, agency and forum.

Interestingly enough, I looked in the mirror and saw some sort of rose colored stain on the tip of my nose. I have to say that the color suits me well :P

[veteranrookie]

i know this is just an opinion, but here it goes.

i think jail work should be mandatory for all certified deputies. I did it, and am now on patrol. It didn't kill me. hell, I think it should be a right of passage. Because if you can't make it in there, you sure as hell aren't going to make it on your own in a pig rig. I also think you should have to go back to it once you leave the jail, just to keep you grounded. This sure would alleviate some of that degree of separation some have placed on a CO vs. LEO position.

Your opinion shows how much of a rookie you really are.

[veteranrookie]

Your opinion shows how much of a rookie you really are.

I'm not going to argue, 'cause I am. Even I can call it like I see it, though.

Veteran rookie you are so right. It was the best experience of my life and really prepared me for road patrol.

Guest you should not talk smack unless you have worked the jail, or maybe you just think its beneath you, or you're afraid to walk into a block with 75-100 inmates.

So nobody has stated that Sean does not turn people into PRB for things Sean thinks are incorrect. So you who defend him are defending a rat who hurts cops. Why do you all think he is such a wonderful guy? He is a rat. the shop is a mess and very unaccommodatiing. i am sure sean would turn anyone in to prb for anything! :shock: :?:

they take good care of you in the jail. use the time to take classes make extra money. get your corpl strips. as for 18 months its more like 3 years. the jail is fat and we have enough depuies to run the jail. the deputies run that shit holeNJC. union would make us unite and keep brass at A minumin..co's run the bus with out any help from the brass co's to the end......good luck with the next cross over come (jan 08) that sucks

this has been an interesting past few dasy of reading. george and paradise where do you get the rose colored glasses? veteranrookee you seem to be a stand up guy. from whatt i have seen you will make a good cop if you dont put on a pair of those glasssses . here is a new though for all of yuo, how abouta new sheriff?

i am turning off my compuuter for the holiday. lets all spend some time remembering wwhat this holiday is about, adn remember those who gave all so that we can have these disuussions.

[Curios George]

Hey retnuh,

Good thing there is not a law about TWI. (Typing While Intoxicated). I would be forced to call a Tango unit and impound your computer :)

Have a great holiday. I know Paradise and I will. We are getting together for a Rose Colored BBQ complete with Anti-Union potatoe salad, Re-Elect the Sheriff BBQ Beans and lets not forget that good ole American Republican Apple Pie... UMMMM MMM

8) Be safe ya'll!!

[Ten8hotel]

Somebody call for a Tango unit?

al gore taught george how to spell potatoe[sic]

Al Gore?.......It was Dan Quayle

Didn't our Vice President shoot the quayle?

Back to the subject...the jail is for people afraid of the dark. Just kidding Zone.

Actually,when the first Bush was in office the Secret Service was told if the President was assasinated they were to shot Dan Quayle.

Guest10 I know you were just kidding , but i don't get it.

Alright, bad joke. Cheney shot the quayle?!>>>anyhow,

jake and hoppy went quail hunting with a potato gun and all they got was a snake book and some pills