Prepare for a fight!

First and foremost I want to say how proud I am right now to be a Tampa Police Officer! I have not seen unity like this in a very long time. Everyone has made a sacrifice in voting this contract down. Chip this is a testiment to your site. I think in years past the administration would have pulled this (contract) off due to the fact we had no forum to voice our "own" opinions Good Job!

With all that said we are in for a fight. This administration has proven that it is vendictive. We may not see a contract ratified in the near future. They may not give us retro pay, but lets keep in mind our goals. These goal can be achieved with "realistic" expectations. Like I have stated in the past I am more concerned about officers rights and them being able to perform their duties w/o the fear of losing thousands of dollars!

I want to put on notice all those cowards who disguise themsevles as real cops and sided with the opposition. Maybe you think there is some reward for loyalty to this administration but I'm here to say you are going to have to make a choice stand and fight with us or side with them. The thin blue line has been drawn!

Right now Mayor Iorio has her own set of problems to deal with. There are rumblings in the business community that they are very unhappy with her. Former Mayor Greco is being bombarded with calls to run for election. Does the mayor want to fight with the police deptartment in a election year? Maybe we get a new Mayor and a new Chief to boot!

GGG
Go Get Greco

BBB
Bring Bennny Back

So what your saying I supported the administration by voting yes I must be a coward? My vote was not about supporting the administration. I am not a Yes man so to comply with your way of thinking about this contract proposal I must join you and then I will be your yes man is that it?

Ok, so tell the 539 officers who stood strong and voted this crap down YOUR reason for a "yes" vote. Not that it really matters because the majority has spoken but inquiring minds want to know.

So what your saying I supported the administration by voting yes I must be a coward? My vote was not about supporting the administration. I am not a Yes man so to comply with your way of thinking about this contract proposal I must join you and then I will be your yes man is that it? THIS PERSON IS PROBABLY A CPL. OR ABOVE WHO WANTS TO PLAY BALL WITH THE ADMINSTRATION. YOU ARE NOT LOOKING OUT FOR YOUR FUTURE BY VOTING YES. HEALTH CARE RETIREMENT IS THE N0.#1 ISSUE AND BY VOTING NO...THE UNIFIED MEMBERS WERE SENDING A MESSAGE TO THE PBA AND THE CITY THAT THIS IS WHAT THE MEMBERS WANT AS A BENEFIT. SOME PLAN NEEDS TO BE IN PLACE THAT IS A GOOD FIRST START. THE CONTRACT WAS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE.

Ok, so tell the 539 officers who stood strong and voted this crap down YOUR reason for a "yes" vote. Not that it really matters because the majority has spoken but inquiring minds want to know.

After reviewing the contract pertaining to benefits that involve me I voted yes. That is why we vote obviously the majority of the members were not satisified with the proposal so the no's have it. I think it's funny how in your post you start out with unity the call out people who voted yes cowards. I just found it humorous as so many people on this site slam people because they don't share the same views, but state we are the brotherhood bla bla bla b.s. I too have been on T.P.D along time, worked in several different assignments etc.
I believe that the members vote does send a message to the city administration, to T.P.D, and to the P.B.A. The vote turnout has been the largest that I can remember and that is good. I don't want to go into specifics about issues as News people etc. do read this site.
The way the PBA addressed questions, surveys etc. regarding this proposal in my opinion was a disservice to the members who pay dues and expect their issues to be addressed. I for one can only hope maybe now more members will get involved with the PBA. Guest123 I think we both agree changes will occur. Does that make us both "Yes" men?
Take care and be safe out there because Tampa is a violent city with alot of dedicated men and women who place themselves at risk daily to protect the citizens and there is not enough compensation when you think about it.

My point is Yellow if you really look at the entire package including how the contract was presented and then how the PBA attempted to justify it with the infamous "letter", it was a disgrace, they (PBA) should be ashamed of themselves. I know for a fact that these representatives are intimidated by staff, they owe their promotions to them! so we cannot rely on a board consisting of individuals who are not willing to ruffel a few feathers. Having said that I respect the fact you responded to my post but I hope you join the rest of us because we have a heck of a battle in front of us and we need everyone on the same page!

IN THE PAST WE HAVE VOTED IN CONTRACTS THAT GAVE US 0%, 2%, ETC. WE VOTED IT IN BECAUSE THE COST OF LIVING WAS NOT HIGH, AND WE UNDERSTOOD THAT THE CITY DID NOT HAVE MONEY. WE WERE FAIR!

HOWEVER, WE ARE LIVING IN DIFFERENT TIMES. EVERYTHING HAS GONE UP, AND WE KNOW THAT THE CITY HAS MONEY. THE CHIEF TOLD US THAT THE CITY HAS MONEY AND OUR P.B.A. PRESIDENT HAS TOLD US THAT THE CITY HAS MONEY. SO IT IS TIME FOR THE CITY TO BE FAIR TO US!

WE HAVE WORKED EXTRA HARD THE PAST FEW YEARS, WHICH RESULTED IN A MAJOR CRIME REDUCTION IN THIS CITY. CERTAIN PEOPLE GOT BONUSES FOR CRIME REDUCTION, BUT WE WERE THE ONES THAT DID THE DIRTY WORK, AND WERE IN THE LINE OF FIRE. IT WAS NOT LONG AGO THAT GRECO GAVE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT A 6-6-6 CONTRACT. WE THINK WE SHOULD GET THE SAME!

WE LEAVE OUR HOMES EVERYDAY NOT KNOWING IF WE WILL SEE OUR FAMILIES AGAIN. WE GO TO WORK, GET HURT WHEN WE HAVE TO FIGHT SCUM BAGS THAT DON'T WANT TO GO TO JAIL, GET EXPOSED TO INFECTIOUS DISEASES, GET SHOT AT, WORK HOLIDAYS AND ADVERSE SHIFTS.

AFTER WORKING OUR 11.5 HOUR SHIFT WE SOMETIMES HAVE TO SPEND SEVERAL HOURS IN COURT. THEN GO HOME GET 3 OR 4 HOURS OF SLEEP, IF WE ARE LUCKY, AND THEN DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. THE LIST GOES ON AND ON OF THE SACRIFICES THAT WE AND OUR FAMILIES MAKE.

I LOVE THIS JOB AND WOULD NOT TRADE IT FOR ANY OTHER JOB. I LOVE HELPING THE COMMUNITY, AND FIGHTING CRIME, BUT IS IT WRONG OF US TO ASK TO BE TREATED FAIR DURING OUR CAREER AND WHEN WE RETIRE? IS IT FAIR THAT WE MAKE ALL THESE SACRIFICIES DURING OUR TENURE, THEN RETIRE, AND HAVE TO CONTINUE TO WORK IN ORDER TO PAY ALMOST 1K A MONTH FOR HEALTH INSURANCE. IS IT SO WRONG FOR US TO ASK FOR AFFORDABLE HEALTH INSURANCE, AFTER ALL WE ARE NOT EXPECTED TO LIVE THAT LONG AFTER RETIREMENT!

" the life expectancy for a police officer is 15 years less than the average American, and nationally, 50% of all police officers will die from heart disease within five years of retirement".


"The law enforcement profession is becoming more complex and stressful as we enter the 21st century. Solid research has shown the life expectancy, after retirement, of a police officer is much shorter than that of the the general population. The suicide rate, divorce rate, and a host of other health related issues, including alcohol abuse, is much higher for police officers than the current national averages. The reasons for these problems are many, complex and varied. Unique occupational stresses: shift work, sleep deprivation, critical incident exposure, cumulative and organizational stress, and leadership issues all play a part. Lack of proper diet and exercise coupled with the many stresses of the job is a disasterous recipe often ending in premature death, or a life which, at best, may be categorized as "non-wellness". Family issues also play a major role in the overall health and wellbeing of a law enforcement officer. The attitude, health and emotional stability of the law enforcement officer affects the harmony, or lack of harmony, in an officer's home. Children, spouses and significant others are all victims of crippling job stress."

WELL, I CAN GO ON, BUT I THINK THAT I HAVE TOUCHED ON SOME OF THE MAIN ISSUE THAT CAUSED THIS CONTRACT TO BE VOTED DOWN BY THE MEMBERSHIP. ALL WE WANT IS TO BE TREATED RIGHT AND FAIR.

AND FOR THE CITIZENS THAT MIGHT READ THIS, REST ASSURED THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO FIGHT CRIME AND KEEP YOU SAFE. WE TOOK AN OATH TO DO THAT, AND NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE IT!

As I politely suggested and my opinion is that the PBA leadership did a poor job in informing the membership about the contract and keeping us informed on important aspects to us all. So "yes" I am with the majority members and "yes" I agree with and alot of the other posters on this site about we do deserve better from the PBA and the City. I am with you my brother. To quote Robert Duvall, " I love the smell of napalm in the morning, it smells like VICTORY".
Be Safe.

I cannot believe that everyone that voted yes is a "coward". I would love for the person who posted that message calling 230 something good cops cowards.....but the fact that I can garuntee the name wont be posted shows all who is the real coward. Opinons are one thing, but attacks like that are pathetic. I voted no for my own reasons but have friends with other opinions. I can tell you they are not cowards. And bring back Benny........what a joke, crime was out of control and he could give a crap about it.

Guys, I have to agree with Guest123 that we're probably in for a fight on this one, and therefore it's going to be important to be on the same page. And for that very same reason, I have a real problem with the way you go about "making your case", Guest123.

Yellow makes an excellent point -- the irony of calling for unity, and then using language like "coward" to describe anyone who disagrees... pretty rich. Guest123, you congratulate Chip DeBlock for creating this forum, and you're right that it's been a useful tool in getting the word out. The problem is that often there's a lot of noise interfering with the transmission. The noise I'm talking about is the chest-thumping, the tendency to veer away from exchanging ideas into name-calling at the drop of a hat.

Let's face it, cops tend to have pretty strong opinions and stick to them, it's something of a job requirement. Sometimes that seems to make arguments between cops look more like verbal brawls -- and in the end it doesn't accomplish much but to make us look foolish in what is (let's remember) a publicly accessible forum. There have been some excellent cases of people voicing their opinions and backing them up -- check out Chip's post on why he was voting no. That's a good use of this forum. There have also been far too many instances of calling "yes" voters cowards, a$$ kissers, and worse. That's pathetic, and not worthy of the professionals we claim to be.

I thought the PBA reps did a decent job of explaining their positions at the info meetings held before the vote. Yeah, there was a little bit of a sell job going on there, but we're all big boys and girls, we can filter information... if we show up. For all the emotion I heard before-hand, why were there only about 30 people at the info meeting I went to. I've heard the argument that "I knew all I needed to know from reading the contract", ok, fine. But for all of you that have such a problem with the way Durkin & Co. did their work, why didn't you show up to call them on it?

My point in all this rambling is this: I've heard many say in this forum that the vote was essentially about respect for us and our hard work. If we as a group are going to be credible we need to start by respecting each other. I voted no, but it was a tough call for me. Had I voted yes, you'd have tough time getting me to accept talk about "the thin blue line" while calling me "coward" in the same breath. Enough of that crap. You want to challenge someone's ideas and counter with your own, bring it on, can't get enough of it. You want to "bow up" verbally on this board, please keep it to yourself.

Mutual respect is going to be needed for the unity we keep talking about, and we're going to need that unity in fighting for a better contract.

Well said, Chill!!!

ACTUALLY (NO PLZ) THE COMBINATION OF MAYOR **** GRECO AND BENNY HOLDER WAS ALOT BETTER. MORAL WAS 2X HIGHER, THE STAT WARRIORS WERE KEPT AT BAY. COPS COULD DO THEIR JOB W/O BEING HARRASED BY DO NOTHING LT'S. YOU WERE NOT FORCED TO WRITE 3.5 TICKETS PER DAY (SOME DISTRICTS) CALLS FOR SERVICE TOOK PRESIDENCE OVER TICKETS. GRECO WOULD EVEN BACK U UP ON CALLS. WHEN IS THE LAST TIME IORIO DID THAT. BENNY WAS OLD SCHOOL AND YEAH NOT THE BEST CANDIDATE FOR TOASTMASTERS BUT HEY THE GUY WAS ALRIGHT IN MY BOOK.

This is to Chill. The reason I did not attend the meetings is because I have been here for around 20 years. I have attended them in the past when the PBA leadership would belittle people for their opposing views, and even want to go outside to settle the issue. I have seen the PBA President in roll call insult and chastise a Detective in front of about 60 plus people.

I completed a survey that the PBA requested just like everyone else. Even though the results were never told to us. I even asked two different PBA reps what the status of the survey was, and also about the negotiations. Both refused to answer, only to say that they were not going to discuss it.

I read the proposed contract on the PBA site just like most people did. I was able to make up my own mind, and did not need the people who came up with these items to try and sell them to me. The proposed contract just was not appropriate for the time it took it to finally be presented to us. It also did contain what the members wanted.

The PBA is supposed to be a representation of their members. Sometimes, that means to do what the members want and not what they think is best for us. If not for the sake of the legal representation, I would have cancelled my membership some time ago. How do you think the HCSO or the other agencies are feeling about the PBA about now?

I just think it is time for the PBA to stand up for the "Members", and do what the majority wants. It's never a "done deal" until the members have voted.

Greco was smoke and mirrors. He never gave us anything higher than a 3% COLA, he never deliverded on the increase multiplyer and nothing else in the contracts increased either. At least under this mayor our pension got increased and our COLAs our the largest in 20 years. It was cool that Greco would give us a s54 on a traffic stop, but he never helped your wallet. Don't kid yourself.

Excellent last post. I think Greco is a cool guy but he did nothing for us. Frankly I have no desire for a "mayor" to back me up. Benny and Greco were total smoke a mirrors and just like you said.....no big raise, no multiplier increase, no new equipment, not much of anything really. Why is is so hard for most people to see that?

Well Well Well
Greco did in fact get a lot of things done. His style was to do it behind the scenes. No the Pension multiplier accrual didnt increase under him, but President Bush nor Hillary Clinton have gotten Health Insurance fixed. (14 yrs of this crisis in the USA and nuthin') Bottom line, the mood was much better much better under Greco.
Holder had some high crme rates while he was here, but so did the previous Chiefs. And so did Hogue when he was a Captain in Patrol. Ask why was crime NOT cut under then Capt. Hogue's direct command compared to other shifts? Because folks, it is simple that outside influences and trends have much more of an impact than anything else. Should then Capt. Hogue have been admonished for the high crime occurrring under his command during the violent 1990's???? (Of course not)
Cheif Holder was here a heck of a long time. And if you look at the CRIME TREND when he was here, overall, IT WENT DOWN. Chief Holder took over when it was VERY VIOLENT and it got LESS VIOLENT as time went on. And there werent the stat prostitutes as prevalent as they are today.
Bottom line, the mood was much better. He supported most street cops, not all, in their work.

As far as the COLA/Contract increases during the last two decades, Holder was not responsible for those issues as a Chief. Our PBA past president and team, the economy, relative economic factors, the City negotiators, the City financial conditions and politics - those were the factors that influenced our SLIM PBA contract finance packages.

So... Our crime reduction is much more a result of overall socio-economic conditions than anything else. Not to take away from the excellent work and sacrifices we have done. But modern technology, personal security improvements, better tracking, enhanced laws, corrections and probation reform, welfare to workfare, zoning laws, redevelopment in cities and housing law changes...all of those influences have done much more to reduce crime than the engineer the choo choo train we are on to cut crime. This happens to be the exact place our train is traveling on during the Hogue journey. Should Hogue be here another 3 years, you will see crime go up under his Reign. Is there anyone naive enuff to think that crime wont cycle upwards again. Even if Chief Hogue is made Super Chief, Public Safety Administrator, Mayor, Governor, whatever, crime will go back up. Dont be silly.

And for those of you who still dont agree things were better under Holder, Chief Hogue, in his first weeks during the transition from Hogue to Holder replied when asked who was his role model coming up through the ranks "Chief Holder"
Put Chief Hogue on the spot and watch him squirm if you ask ..."How were things here under Chief Holder?"
GGG
BBB

We only got 3-3-3 from Greco but you got take home cars written into the contract. We got 5-3-3 last time because of the multiplier increase which turned out to be 3.15 not the guaranteed 3.5% If you want me to take a 4.5-4-4 then raise the multiplier. TAKE HOME CARS ARE REALLY NO BIG BENEFIT, UNTIL YOU LOSE THEM. THEY ARE WORTH 3500 TO 7500 DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU LIVE.

I surely hope you are speaking for yourself. Take Home cars are a huge benefit! You obviously weren't here when they took them away from us the first time. The benefit to us personally is great, not to mention the fact that you get a very nice car to work in during your shift. When we all had fleet cars to drive everyday it was absolutely disgusting. More often than not you had to deadlign three or four before you could find one to even work your shift.

I think "TAKE HOME CAR" is saying the car program is a benifet. But let me digress to an earlier post implying that the current regime has given us better raises and kept crime in check. first of all if you really want to look at the numbers even though our raises were small under Greco's administration the net value that you take home now is less, even with a 5-3-3 raise. Back then the cost of living was not as high. What we have seen under Iorio is a tremendous spike in health care premiums. Make no mistake the city can find ways to lower our medical contributions but they have not even attempted.

Notice I am not factoring in the higher cost of things like gas, electric, home owners insurance due to the fact all Americans are affected by this we simply cannot control these factors. However we can do something about health insurance.

Now on to crime rate reduction. This current administration relys whole heartedly on "COMSTAT" which former Mayor Julianni wrote a book about. It basically focuses on paying attention to quality of life issues (sound familiar?) this is nothing new. What is different and to this day not one staff member has been able to quantify is the focus on ticket writing, no one wants to say this is your quota but here is your target number that your worth as an officer is based. Numbers can be and always will be manipulated. Why do you think supervisors in certain districts spend most of their time reclassifying certain offences. This practice to say the least is unethical. Don't beleive me do your own research.

So once you play the stat game (which Holder and Greco did not) its very difficult to "out do" each previous year. Thus we have seen a 70% increase in crime in District Two. Wow! 70% is that possible.

In short Cops are not numbers (even though there is a LT. who has photos of all officers under his command with a number under it on his wall) this is what we have come to.