Promotions

Has anyone read the new policy on promotions?

Has anyone read the new policy on promotions?

No - enlighten us

..

It seems that our newly appointed secretary only wants the "best" being promoted so therefore those of us that hope to ever aspire to a higher position will need to -wait a year?- go through some type of educational classes- which has not been announced and basically shoot through hoops to get the "hehe coveted 5%" pay increase..

..

It seems that our newly appointed secretary only wants the "best" being promoted so therefore those of us that hope to ever aspire to a higher position will need to -wait a year?- go through some type of educational classes- which has not been announced and basically shoot through hoops to get the "hehe coveted 5%" pay increase..

You cant get no one to take the promotions lower than CPSS as it is, because the raises are a joke. If he wants to get the better people promoted he should at least get the 10% put back in then they might apply.

All applicants MUST display a brown tipped nose!

david rice as the new CA of circuit 6. who is this new guy taking over DCA? who will first in line to kiss his ass to get their way?

ps: dave, you now have more "friends" than you ever thought possible

[VOPman]

It seems that our newly appointed secretary only wants the "best" being promoted so therefore those of us that hope to ever aspire to a higher position will need to -wait a year?- go through some type of educational classes- which has not been announced and basically shoot through hoops to get the "hehe coveted 5%" pay increase..

How horrible that would be - to require education and competence PRIOR to being promoted. Talk about rocking the boat. No other employer on the planet makes their employees "shoot through hoops" or otherwise demonstrate extra initiative to get a promotion. How dare the new Secretary force us to EARN a promotion. I suggest that we all boycott any promotion announcements. We'll show him.

It seems that our newly appointed secretary only wants the "best" being promoted so therefore those of us that hope to ever aspire to a higher position will need to -wait a year?- go through some type of educational classes- which has not been announced and basically shoot through hoops to get the "hehe coveted 5%" pay increase..

How horrible that would be - to require education and competence PRIOR to being promoted. Talk about rocking the boat. No other employer on the planet makes their employees "shoot through hoops" or otherwise demonstrate extra initiative to get a promotion. How dare the new Secretary force us to EARN a promotion. I suggest that we all boycott any promotion announcements. We'll show him.

The problem with this is it does nothing to get the best people to want to get promoted. As long as their is only a 5% raise to getting promoted we will continue to have the same people going for them. The reaction of some of the "get over' CPO's has already been they should have it and I already know why these are the same ones that manuever into all the other ones and then whine for someone to help them get their work done when they get back. If they truly want the hardworking honest people promoted they have to go back to 10% regardless of these classes. They can hardly get anyone to apply as it is.

[VOPman]

It seems that our newly appointed secretary only wants the "best" being promoted so therefore those of us that hope to ever aspire to a higher position will need to -wait a year?- go through some type of educational classes- which has not been announced and basically shoot through hoops to get the "hehe coveted 5%" pay increase..

How horrible that would be - to require education and competence PRIOR to being promoted. Talk about rocking the boat. No other employer on the planet makes their employees "shoot through hoops" or otherwise demonstrate extra initiative to get a promotion. How dare the new Secretary force us to EARN a promotion. I suggest that we all boycott any promotion announcements. We'll show him.

The problem with this is it does nothing to get the best people to want to get promoted. As long as their is only a 5% raise to getting promoted we will continue to have the same people going for them. The reaction of some of the "get over' CPO's has already been they should have it and I already know why these are the same ones that manuever into all the other ones and then whine for someone to help them get their work done when they get back. If they truly want the hardworking honest people promoted they have to go back to 10% regardless of these classes. They can hardly get anyone to apply as it is.

If good people want the promotion badly enough, they will apply regardless of the salary increase. Beisdes, how "good" can a person be if the only way that they can be motivated is through financial incentive?

It seems that our newly appointed secretary only wants the "best" being promoted so therefore those of us that hope to ever aspire to a higher position will need to -wait a year?- go through some type of educational classes- which has not been announced and basically shoot through hoops to get the "hehe coveted 5%" pay increase..

How horrible that would be - to require education and competence PRIOR to being promoted. Talk about rocking the boat. No other employer on the planet makes their employees "shoot through hoops" or otherwise demonstrate extra initiative to get a promotion. How dare the new Secretary force us to EARN a promotion. I suggest that we all boycott any promotion announcements. We'll show him.

The problem with this is it does nothing to get the best people to want to get promoted. As long as their is only a 5% raise to getting promoted we will continue to have the same people going for them. The reaction of some of the "get over' CPO's has already been they should have it and I already know why these are the same ones that manuever into all the other ones and then whine for someone to help them get their work done when they get back. If they truly want the hardworking honest people promoted they have to go back to 10% regardless of these classes. They can hardly get anyone to apply as it is.

If good people want the promotion badly enough, they will apply regardless of the salary increase. Beisdes, how "good" can a person be if the only way that they can be motivated is through financial incentive?

Say want you want, but it has clearly been the lazier people promoted the last few years because the hardworking ones for the most part either leave to another agency or just dont want to mess with it getting nothing basically for the promotion. Every one in my office today saying they loved the idea were the deadbeats when it came to their work and assisting others etc.

Lets lower the raises to 2% then since it doesnt matter....

[VOPman]

It seems that our newly appointed secretary only wants the "best" being promoted so therefore those of us that hope to ever aspire to a higher position will need to -wait a year?- go through some type of educational classes- which has not been announced and basically shoot through hoops to get the "hehe coveted 5%" pay increase..

How horrible that would be - to require education and competence PRIOR to being promoted. Talk about rocking the boat. No other employer on the planet makes their employees "shoot through hoops" or otherwise demonstrate extra initiative to get a promotion. How dare the new Secretary force us to EARN a promotion. I suggest that we all boycott any promotion announcements. We'll show him.

The problem with this is it does nothing to get the best people to want to get promoted. As long as their is only a 5% raise to getting promoted we will continue to have the same people going for them. The reaction of some of the "get over' CPO's has already been they should have it and I already know why these are the same ones that manuever into all the other ones and then whine for someone to help them get their work done when they get back. If they truly want the hardworking honest people promoted they have to go back to 10% regardless of these classes. They can hardly get anyone to apply as it is.

If good people want the promotion badly enough, they will apply regardless of the salary increase. Beisdes, how "good" can a person be if the only way that they can be motivated is through financial incentive?

Say want you want, but it has clearly been the lazier people promoted the last few years because the hardworking ones for the most part either leave to another agency or just dont want to mess with it getting nothing basically for the promotion. Every one in my office today saying they loved the idea were the deadbeats when it came to their work and assisting others etc.

They can't be too lazy -- they got off their butts and applied for the promotion. Money isn't everything and just because a person takes one promotion does not mean that they are stuck there forever. They can get promoted again, and again. If you want to be a Senior Sup, then you first have to be promoted to Senior Officer, then to Specialist/Sup. That's the only way to get there since skipping grades is no longer permitted. The chances of being promoted to an SES/SMS position without having gone through the ranks, though possible, is not likely.

Ambition, drive, audacity, initiative, and activity are all necessary characteristics of good leaders. I am sure that you work with a lot of "good" people who you feel should get promoted but competency, alone, does not necessarily make for a good senior officer, specialist, supervisor, etc.

There are a lot of promotional opportunites in FDC, but if you really want to move up quickly, you have to be willing to relocate. If you hold out and apply only for the promotion that you want and only in an area where you want to settle forever, then you may have a long wait. Hmmm. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that these are the same types of career decisions that confront every other worker in the world.

[quote="peeon":1f9r0svf]It seems that our newly appointed secretary only wants the "best" being promoted so therefore those of us that hope to ever aspire to a higher position will need to -wait a year?- go through some type of educational classes- which has not been announced and basically shoot through hoops to get the "hehe coveted 5%" pay increase..

How horrible that would be - to require education and competence PRIOR to being promoted. Talk about rocking the boat. No other employer on the planet makes their employees "shoot through hoops" or otherwise demonstrate extra initiative to get a promotion. How dare the new Secretary force us to EARN a promotion. I suggest that we all boycott any promotion announcements. We'll show him.

The problem with this is it does nothing to get the best people to want to get promoted. As long as their is only a 5% raise to getting promoted we will continue to have the same people going for them. The reaction of some of the "get over' CPO's has already been they should have it and I already know why these are the same ones that manuever into all the other ones and then whine for someone to help them get their work done when they get back. If they truly want the hardworking honest people promoted they have to go back to 10% regardless of these classes. They can hardly get anyone to apply as it is.

If good people want the promotion badly enough, they will apply regardless of the salary increase. Beisdes, how "good" can a person be if the only way that they can be motivated is through financial incentive?

Say want you want, but it has clearly been the lazier people promoted the last few years because the hardworking ones for the most part either leave to another agency or just dont want to mess with it getting nothing basically for the promotion. Every one in my office today saying they loved the idea were the deadbeats when it came to their work and assisting others etc.

They can't be too lazy -- they got off their butts and applied for the promotion. Money isn't everything and just because a person takes one promotion does not mean that they are stuck there forever. They can get promoted again, and again. If you want to be a Senior Sup, then you first have to be promoted to Senior Officer, then to Specialist/Sup. That's the only way to get there since skipping grades is no longer permitted. The chances of being promoted to an SES/SMS position without having gone through the ranks, though possible, is not likely.

Ambition, drive, audacity, initiative, and activity are all necessary characteristics of good leaders. I am sure that you work with a lot of "good" people who you feel should get promoted but competency, alone, does not necessarily make for a good senior officer, specialist, supervisor, etc.

There are a lot of promotional opportunites in FDC, but if you really want to move up quickly, you have to be willing to relocate. If you hold out and apply only for the promotion that you want and only in an area where you want to settle forever, then you may have a long wait. Hmmm. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that these are the same types of career decisions that confront every other worker in the world.[/quote:1f9r0svf]

I am in a high vacancy area and I am telling you the worst officers are the ones who generally apply for the promotions here and it has gotten more this way as they wittled down the promotion raise to 5%. If they truly wanted to increase the professionalism the best way is to go back to 10% any way you slice it because at 5% people just see it as a slap in the face and it turns them away. All that talk is good in theory I guess but in reality it is hurting the quality of the applicants for promotions in reality.

[VOPman]

[quote="VOPman":5j6ujk1t][quote="peeon":5j6ujk1t]It seems that our newly appointed secretary only wants the "best" being promoted so therefore those of us that hope to ever aspire to a higher position will need to -wait a year?- go through some type of educational classes- which has not been announced and basically shoot through hoops to get the "hehe coveted 5%" pay increase..

How horrible that would be - to require education and competence PRIOR to being promoted. Talk about rocking the boat. No other employer on the planet makes their employees "shoot through hoops" or otherwise demonstrate extra initiative to get a promotion. How dare the new Secretary force us to EARN a promotion. I suggest that we all boycott any promotion announcements. We'll show him.

The problem with this is it does nothing to get the best people to want to get promoted. As long as their is only a 5% raise to getting promoted we will continue to have the same people going for them. The reaction of some of the "get over' CPO's has already been they should have it and I already know why these are the same ones that manuever into all the other ones and then whine for someone to help them get their work done when they get back. If they truly want the hardworking honest people promoted they have to go back to 10% regardless of these classes. They can hardly get anyone to apply as it is.

If good people want the promotion badly enough, they will apply regardless of the salary increase. Beisdes, how "good" can a person be if the only way that they can be motivated is through financial incentive?

Say want you want, but it has clearly been the lazier people promoted the last few years because the hardworking ones for the most part either leave to another agency or just dont want to mess with it getting nothing basically for the promotion. Every one in my office today saying they loved the idea were the deadbeats when it came to their work and assisting others etc.

They can't be too lazy -- they got off their butts and applied for the promotion. Money isn't everything and just because a person takes one promotion does not mean that they are stuck there forever. They can get promoted again, and again. If you want to be a Senior Sup, then you first have to be promoted to Senior Officer, then to Specialist/Sup. That's the only way to get there since skipping grades is no longer permitted. The chances of being promoted to an SES/SMS position without having gone through the ranks, though possible, is not likely.

Ambition, drive, audacity, initiative, and activity are all necessary characteristics of good leaders. I am sure that you work with a lot of "good" people who you feel should get promoted but competency, alone, does not necessarily make for a good senior officer, specialist, supervisor, etc.

There are a lot of promotional opportunites in FDC, but if you really want to move up quickly, you have to be willing to relocate. If you hold out and apply only for the promotion that you want and only in an area where you want to settle forever, then you may have a long wait. Hmmm. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that these are the same types of career decisions that confront every other worker in the world.[/quote:5j6ujk1t]

I am in a high vacancy area and I am telling you the worst officers are the ones who generally apply for the promotions here and it has gotten more this way as they wittled down the promotion raise to 5%. If they truly wanted to increase the professionalism the best way is to go back to 10% any way you slice it because at 5% people just see it as a slap in the face and it turns them away. All that talk is good in theory I guess but in reality it is hurting the quality of the applicants for promotions in reality.[/quote:5j6ujk1t]

Do you believe that if the promotion raise were increased to 10% that FEWER morons would apply for promotions? The morons get promoted because the good ones don't apply. Some people a have said that there are a lot of morons in senior management right now. Well, they were promoted in the old days when promotion raises were 10% or greater. Your solution would result in better pay for morons. I say keep the lower promotion (CPSO, CPSP) increases small and have big increases for upper level promotions CPS, CPSS, DCA, CA etc. (yes, I feel that there should be a pay increase between CPSP and CPS).

Do you believe that if the promotion raise were increased to 10% that FEWER morons would apply for promotions? The morons get promoted because the good ones don't apply. Some people a have said that there are a lot of morons in senior management right now. Well, they were promoted in the old days when promotion raises were 10% or greater. Your solution would result in better pay for morons. I say keep the lower promotion (CPSO, CPSP) increases small and have big increases for upper level promotions CPS, CPSS, DCA, CA etc. (yes, I feel that there should be a pay increase between CPSP and CPS).

No I am saying that some good ones would apply also - you will always have some deadwood getting through, that is a fact of life but at least with something to gain you will have better people apply more often.

[VOPman]

Do you believe that if the promotion raise were increased to 10% that FEWER morons would apply for promotions? The morons get promoted because the good ones don't apply. Some people a have said that there are a lot of morons in senior management right now. Well, they were promoted in the old days when promotion raises were 10% or greater. Your solution would result in better pay for morons. I say keep the lower promotion (CPSO, CPSP) increases small and have big increases for upper level promotions CPS, CPSS, DCA, CA etc. (yes, I feel that there should be a pay increase between CPSP and CPS).

No I am saying that some good ones would apply also - you will always have some deadwood getting through, that is a fact of life but at least with something to gain you will have better people apply more often.

Once again, I ask, how good can they be if they can't get off their butts and fill out an application? Boo hoo, the pay raise is only 5%. Most CPO's do as much work, and sometimes more, than the average CPSO. It may only be a 5% raise, but they might as well have the money, too.

Promotion is about more than money. It's also about career advancement and personal ambition. Further, this job is a privilege, not an entitlement. Government employment is supposed to be about service, not personal gain. Sure, more money is great, but there is a loftier goal if one pursues this career.

It's hard for a "good PO", who would want to do the right type of job, to bring himself/herself to apply due to the lousy good-ol-boy system, the lack of intestinal fortitude, the whipping boy concept, etc of the upper management. No one in their right mind wants to fight that type of behavior every day.

[GoDevil]

The promotional policy has changed so many times and is so confusing that us line folks have no idea what is going on. At one time it was education, incentive courses, time in grade and ratings. Then you had to drink beer from a long neck bottle and spit tobacco juice on the sidewalk or carry a spitoon. I am not very smart to begin with and considering the policy changes I seem to be getting more befuddled. What ever happened to the ass kicking, name taking, keeping the population safe policy? Now it seems that the MEDIA is dictating DOC policy. GoDevil.

[VOPman]

Guys, promotions are not an entitlement. Even enlisted soldiers in the US Army have to apply for promotions. If they don't send their promotion packet to the promotion board themselves, then they will never be considered for promotion.

If you hate the pay so much, then either work your way through the ranks and get promoted into a position where you can change things to your liking or quit complaining. I agree that the promotion pay raises are not sizeable enough, but until I can get into a position where I can do something about it, I'll take whatever extra money comes my way. Lords knows, I am not making any extra money whining about it.

In Broward County, they cannot get anyone to apply for positions. They must readvertise two and three times before one person applies. Most of the officers recently promoted to supervisor have come out of intake with no field experience or come from the field with a "power trip" attitude and less than five years on the job. The Circuit begs officer with ten or more years exprience to apply for supervisor. The response is a big fat NO! Most of the supervisors in this circuit could not find a way out of an offender's file if their lives depended on it. All they care about is being on a "gold badge" power trip. This job is hard enough without having incompetent officers now becoming supervisors because they are the "last resort" to a vacant position. The new mandatory training for promotion will only make matters worse.

They should have made the classes for the SES. Too late now. 10% would help however, they need to put another 10% between CPSP's and CPS's since the 94' step pay plan dumped, they never put it back!? Does it make sense that a supervisor can supervise a specialist in the same pay grade??? WTF.

The prison side has much more opportunities for advancement and they make more $ w/ out education??? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

The additude is why take 5% for more responsibility and then become essential staff and miss all of the Admin days. I'm afraid P&P staff will never be valued in this agency.

They should have made the classes for the SES. Too late now. 10% would help however, they need to put another 10% between CPSP's and CPS's since the 94' step pay plan dumped, they never put it back!? Does it make sense that a supervisor can supervise a specialist in the same pay grade??? WTF.

The prison side has much more opportunities for advancement and they make more $ w/ out education??? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

The additude is why take 5% for more responsibility and then become essential staff and miss all of the Admin days. I'm afraid P&P staff will never be valued in this agency.

True - people can spin it any way they want, but as long as it is just 5% most of the good hard working officers wont apply and it will remain just the same old characters applying like has been the case the last few years. I dont know how many times I have heard the old time officers and supervisors say if people would just stand their ground and refuse the pitiful 5% raise they would go back to 10%, but as long as their is these underperformers willing to take it ( even if its just 1 in the whole circuit) they will continue to crap on us.

Guys, promotions are not an entitlement. Even enlisted soldiers in the US Army have to apply for promotions. If they don't send their promotion packet to the promotion board themselves, then they will never be considered for promotion.

If you hate the pay so much, then either work your way through the ranks and get promoted into a position where you can change things to your liking or quit complaining. I agree that the promotion pay raises are not sizeable enough, but until I can get into a position where I can do something about it, I'll take whatever extra money comes my way. Lords knows, I am not making any extra money whining about it.

enlisted men only apply for E-5 and above

Actually, E-5 and E-6 are promotions are handled at unit level, and require no "packet", just an oral board and a looksie at the uniform.

E-7 and higher go to Dept of Army, and soldiers have to submit their packet to them. Then they all come out on a list ranked by score and MOS, and DA promotes from that.

In the "old days" you had to attend PLDC: Primary Leadership Development Course before you could be promoted to E-5, and BNOC (Basic NonComissioned Officer's Course) before being considered/promoted to E-6. ANOC (advanced NonComissioned Officer's Course) was a must to advance to E-7.

Funny, the military actually makes you take leadership courses BEFORE they promote you to even the slightest of leadership positions. And you need a course before you apply for each subsequent promotion. What do you think we could learn here?

One thing overlooked: it's far easier to promote a bad employee to a higher level than to discipline and fire them. I also feel that's why some people are promoted to higher management/leadership levels.

I blame the unions and state employment practice for this.

It's egregious that supervisors, after counseling and attempts to correct problem employees, are unable to summarily fire the problem employees. I've seen a case at a south Florida university where an employee was fired for harrassing a student only to have the union get him his job back because the university didn't go through the "proper" procedure to fire him. The result? They fired him again after he harrassed a co-worker and the supervisor was smart enough to have 15 pages of documentation to use against him.

Nothing is more disrespectful to good employees than to let problem employees and pollute the work environment with venom.

Supervisors simply must have the proper leeway to appropriately discipline and terminate problem employees.

who disciplines or fires the supervisors when they are ineffective? bad officers should never be promoted. it all begins with the first performance evaluation, and goes from there. i don't think they even look at those, not that it would matter, when it comes to promotions. it's based on how many bullshit policies you've memorized and can spit back at them during a question & answer period. bad officers become bad supervisors, and hence, the nightmare we're all stuck in now. power hungry, re-review issuing, dumbasses that most of them are. they come in and demand you do your work "their way" regardless of the 15 years you've already been doing it, and haven't had a problem yet. then there's the never ending issuance of re-reviews. those are a bit more humorous, because it's actually more work for the boss than for me. but hey, have at it if it makes you feel like a bigger person who is in charge.

fact is, the only power a supervisor really has is handing out rereviews for nonsense. it's not like they can control policy, or how it's interpreted, or who even listens. threaten to write me up? here, use my pen. whatever. anyone who wants to be one is just looking for one more way to NOT go to the field, but collect high-risk pay all the same.

I firmly believe in performance measurements and the ability to tell the PBA to stick it when they want to side with a bad employee. My focus is on community safety and all else needs to line up behind it.

There's a dearth of common sense most of the time with supervisors simply lying and making things up, claiming it's coming from higher up, but don't you DARE go up and ask or it's your ass.

THere's no incentive to give an employee a bad review. If you do, you have to write a performance improvement plan and go through un-godly steps that take about six months to a year to fire.

It's easier to simply promote them to be someone else's problem.

In the real world, it's about 30 days to clean up your act or you're gone.

With all of this harping on integrity in word and deed. You'd think that the administration would follow suit. The administation wants their Supvrs. to lie to staff.

That does not surprise me. Supervisors are not allowed to treat their officers like people. They are encouraged to lie.

it all begins with the first performance evaluation, and goes from there. i don't think they even look at those,


Sure we read the performance evaluations. We read them, laugh, then file them. :twisted:

traffic homicide investigations is relevant to your job....where do you idiots come from?????Did you not notice the part about managers only approving certain types or styles to attend the classes? Only kissers will be in as usual. The kernal( misspelled on purpose) has already said he is out of here...get over it and they have not negotiated this with the bargaining units SSOOOOO more lawsuits dummies

One thing overlooked: it's far easier to promote a bad employee to a higher level than to discipline and fire them. I also feel that's why some people are promoted to higher management/leadership levels.

I blame the unions and state employment practice for this.

It's egregious that supervisors, after counseling and attempts to correct problem employees, are unable to summarily fire the problem employees. I've seen a case at a south Florida university where an employee was fired for harrassing a student only to have the union get him his job back because the university didn't go through the "proper" procedure to fire him. The result? They fired him again after he harrassed a co-worker and the supervisor was smart enough to have 15 pages of documentation to use against him.

Nothing is more disrespectful to good employees than to let problem employees and pollute the work environment with venom.

Supervisors simply must have the proper leeway to appropriately discipline and terminate problem employees.

Promoting your problems, out of the office, circuit, region is a common old school practice. Look at the Ca's you have now? Pretty scary.

Actually, E-5 and E-6 are promotions are handled at unit level, and require no "packet", just an oral board and a looksie at the uniform.

E-7 and higher go to Dept of Army, and soldiers have to submit their packet to them. Then they all come out on a list ranked by score and MOS, and DA promotes from that.

In the "old days" you had to attend PLDC: Primary Leadership Development Course before you could be promoted to E-5, and BNOC (Basic NonComissioned Officer's Course) before being considered/promoted to E-6. ANOC (advanced NonComissioned Officer's Course) was a must to advance to E-7.

Funny, the military actually makes you take leadership courses BEFORE they promote you to even the slightest of leadership positions. And you need a course before you apply for each subsequent promotion. What do you think we could learn here?

there is a packet for E-5 and E-6 in the Army anyways, but you are right about E-7 and above.The problem is it will do nothing to get the good people promoted with a joke raise of 5%. The good workers I know are already saying they wont voluntarily do classes due to their workload, but the slackers will line right up assuming the good people will do their work as usual when they are gone.