Sound the retreat

[The end is upon us]

We have officially became the laughingstock of the LEO community of Central Florida. We have promoted someone to sergeant who has a total of 2 arrests to their credit. Is this what was once a great place to work has come down to? How would one of these brand new deputies go to this sergeant for advice on an arrest? 2? Not a misprint but a total of 2 arrests in her career. Man the life rafts people.

[Unregistered]

I get what you're saying, but a lot of deserving and qualified people were promoted today. I choose to focus on them, rather than make it all about one.

[Unregistered]

Seminole Circus Sheriff’s Office.

[They were]

I get what you're saying, but a lot of deserving and qualified people were promoted today. I choose to focus on them, rather than make it all about one.

Some were but some are not deserving and at some point will screw up and may get someone hurt. 2 arrests in a career? This is a horrible promotion to someone who has done nothing but brown nose.

[Unregistered]

The SCSO has failed us all

[Unregistered1000]

A team was formed to review the testing process and came up with one used by another county that effectively awarded candidates for their time at the sheriffs office, assignments, degrees, military and all around career. The reason we didn't use this system? Several in this recent promotion group wouldn't be qualified for deputy. One with exactly no experience and two arrests, one been kicked out of every unit they have been in. We are in dire need of leaders and two couldn't lead anything. Congratulations to those in this group who will make great leaders. As in every group there are the ones everyone says fantastic picks, and then there are those that everyone say WTF.

[Unregistered]

Stop putting each other down. Instead give these new sergeants a chance and the encouragement they need to succeed.

Arrest don’t make a leader. The overall objective of the Sheriffs Office is to enhance life by reducing crime and the f.o.c. Nothing in that statements says “make as many arrests as possible.”

Let’s not judge so quickly and continue to rally for positive change without becoming part of the problem.

[Unregistered]

And it’s to enhance the quality of life. I just wanted my message to be short with also getting my point across. I know my M.S lol.

[Unregistered]

48 months and exactly two arrests. Yes its not all about arrests but you would think you could find one a month. No too busy brown nosing and setting up Halloween parties. Yeah that is what we do. So go ahead and take the handcuffs nd handguns as those surely won't be needed. An inside jobs perhaps? All the hard working people who have put their time in here and they get passed over for her? Unfathomable that this is the best of what we have. The title was right abandon ship. Thanks for the reply too chief!

[Unregistered]

What crime is reduced by a Halloween party?

[Unregistered]

Long time reader and felt the need to stroke the keys for a few minutes. It seems the recent promotions have caused another stir with AB being front and center. I think people are more upset with the choice based on experience or lack thereof and not the person as a person. In fact I think most of the "eat your own" gripes or complaints stem from the decisions themselves and nothing to do with the people as people. Either way anytime there is a suggestion for a change people are going to have their feelings hurt. It is the nature of any business. Think about this for a minute though. Employee A - 10 year employee (5 SNP/5 INV medicore worker) vs Employee B - 4 year employee ( all SNP but just a check collector). Take everything else out of the equation and strictly with that information, who do you think people would respect more or pick as a supervisor? My guess would be employee A everytime. Does that mean employee A would be better than employee B? Maybe not but I think it gives them a better chance. Employee B starts out in the hole because very little, if any, respect will be given at first. People earn respect, it isn't just handed to them, sewn or pinned on their uniform. We have this FTO program that is supposed to pick the best of the best Deputies to train the new ones right? That should be the thought process right? I don't think anyone wants a non productive check collector to train the new ones. So we have to think, what if AB had applied to be a FTD. Would she have been picked or laughed out of the room? I would like to think the latter. So what message would that send? You are not good enough to be an FTD but good enough to be a SGT? If we want the best of the best as FTD's, should we not want the best of the best as SGT´s and above? Now does arrests alone make someone the best of the best? No but it adds to their overall knowledge and experience which should make them a better supervisor. How is one going to evaulate another on things they have never experienced? How is one going to review another´s work when they have no idea what they are talking about? Unfortunately for AB she is the most recent casualty of the #wearescso. Yes CASUALTY! We have just ended any opportunity she will ever have to gain other law enforcement experience and she has how many career years left? Most SGT's are hand offs because that is what the admin wants and it gets worse the higher one goes. They did not do her any favors. There are many more like that, she is just the most recent. Supervisors should be interchangeable for the most part. What happens to her now? Throw her in DIS/SNP or anywhere else besides NRD and let her drown? Or keep her in a position that a civilian should be doing? If thats the case and she stays then why does she need be a SGT? SGT over who? Neither of those options appear to make this place operate better. That should be the goal, make us a superbowl winning team and not the dolphins.

What about the current staffing/retention crisis. What are we doing to correct that? I will not go into detail about where we are short because everyone knows but why isn't every unit, every position being evaluated to see where people can be pulled from? Do a search in Cafe, it contains all the answers about what work is being done or not done. Do we not either have the lowest or one of the lowest crime rates in the county right now? Why the dire need for IPCU right now? Table it until we have people. I am sure the people in it are good people but shouldn't employees being willing to make sacrifices for the greater good? We are all family right?

How are we retaining new people? We can not compete with ocso or opd pay. What do new people have to look forward to? Put in a couple years and take a pay cut to became a Detective? Or hope you get promoted at 4 years, which will not happen for majority of people in their career much less at 4 years. Where are the ideas? What's the vision? We need something or the crisis will worsen. I hesitate to mention a congessional candidate in New York wants to disarm police because we might not be that far away from someone here having that idea.

Some think that only a few people post here and that might be true but I believe they echo the thoughts of many. Maybe instead of viewing these people as negative or disguntled, ask yourself why do they post. I think it is because they have a vested interest in this agency and truly care but are at their wits end with the same old shit. The system is broken and changes are needed. The sad part though is this forum has little to no affect on the admin. And to those to say, be part of the committe and make a change. As someone previously stated a proposal for a new promotion process was sent up well over a year ago only for DL to say several months later he hadn't seen it. It has since been reworked and sent up again. Not sure where it stands.....

To those who actively express your frustrations/concerns up your chain, I commend you. I am curious as to how far up that information makes it. I would assume no higher than Captain and that is a shame. To those in admin just remember we are a reflection of your leadership or lack of. Also as someone said previously, what legacy do you want to leave?

[Silence Dogood]

You are completely right! Since we are a paramilitary organization (or used to be), simply put, who is better suited to lead a platoon or squad or shift? The 2nd Lt who has a degree, went to OCS and has no experience or the Gunnery Sgt that has tons of experience, is battle proven but comes off as “negative” or “does their own thing”.


We all know stats aren’t everything and the numbers game can be played. I mean how many crimes aren’t even reported due to talking victims out of a report? But if it’s true, 2 arrests will be a hard act to follow. Zero street credibility. But for those reading or who have only been here a minute, this is definitely not the first time this has happened. We have plenty in positions that have produced very few results. Don’t believe me? Open cafe and start querying supervisory results. If it’s not in writing it didn’t happen right?


Most soldiers want the latter person for a leader. Especially when the mess hits the fan. They need someone who can bark orders and take control of all their cats and not someone who goes into vapor lock.


This isn’t about having compassion or empathy for your troops. A lot of people here have those qualities. It’s about being able to do the job. Given the current status of morale I’d say this probably didn’t help.


I hate to say it but you can’t teach or read experience, you have to actually do it, to obtain it. Most of us want to go home at the end of our shift and not be become #7 due to lack of leadership.


We have identified the obvious lack of leadership at multiple levels within our organization. It’s been expressed in multiple formats and venues. Now we all sit and wait to see if anything is actually done to correct everything. Will the newest Sgts become scapegoats or will they mentored by Lt’s that have zero street credibility to mentor patrol Sgts. Patrol Sgts used to be the best and baddest of the agency. Heaven forbid you piss a Sgt off.


The higher you go you get paid more to make difficult or even unpopular decisions. So what are you going to do? Plausible deniability or step up and command your organization? Be a friend or be a leader? #extremeownership

[Unregistered]

Long time reader and felt the need to stroke the keys for a few minutes. It seems the recent promotions have caused another stir with AB being front and center. I think people are more upset with the choice based on experience or lack thereof and not the person as a person. In fact I think most of the "eat your own" gripes or complaints stem from the decisions themselves and nothing to do with the people as people. Either way anytime there is a suggestion for a change people are going to have their feelings hurt. It is the nature of any business. Think about this for a minute though. Employee A - 10 year employee (5 SNP/5 INV medicore worker) vs Employee B - 4 year employee ( all SNP but just a check collector). Take everything else out of the equation and strictly with that information, who do you think people would respect more or pick as a supervisor? My guess would be employee A everytime. Does that mean employee A would be better than employee B? Maybe not but I think it gives them a better chance. Employee B starts out in the hole because very little, if any, respect will be given at first. People earn respect, it isn't just handed to them, sewn or pinned on their uniform. We have this FTO program that is supposed to pick the best of the best Deputies to train the new ones right? That should be the thought process right? I don't think anyone wants a non productive check collector to train the new ones. So we have to think, what if AB had applied to be a FTD. Would she have been picked or laughed out of the room? I would like to think the latter. So what message would that send? You are not good enough to be an FTD but good enough to be a SGT? If we want the best of the best as FTD's, should we not want the best of the best as SGT´s and above? Now does arrests alone make someone the best of the best? No but it adds to their overall knowledge and experience which should make them a better supervisor. How is one going to evaulate another on things they have never experienced? How is one going to review another´s work when they have no idea what they are talking about? Unfortunately for AB she is the most recent casualty of the #wearescso. Yes CASUALTY! We have just ended any opportunity she will ever have to gain other law enforcement experience and she has how many career years left? Most SGT's are hand offs because that is what the admin wants and it gets worse the higher one goes. They did not do her any favors. There are many more like that, she is just the most recent. Supervisors should be interchangeable for the most part. What happens to her now? Throw her in DIS/SNP or anywhere else besides NRD and let her drown? Or keep her in a position that a civilian should be doing? If thats the case and she stays then why does she need be a SGT? SGT over who? Neither of those options appear to make this place operate better. That should be the goal, make us a superbowl winning team and not the dolphins.

What about the current staffing/retention crisis. What are we doing to correct that? I will not go into detail about where we are short because everyone knows but why isn't every unit, every position being evaluated to see where people can be pulled from? Do a search in Cafe, it contains all the answers about what work is being done or not done. Do we not either have the lowest or one of the lowest crime rates in the county right now? Why the dire need for IPCU right now? Table it until we have people. I am sure the people in it are good people but shouldn't employees being willing to make sacrifices for the greater good? We are all family right?

How are we retaining new people? We can not compete with ocso or opd pay. What do new people have to look forward to? Put in a couple years and take a pay cut to became a Detective? Or hope you get promoted at 4 years, which will not happen for majority of people in their career much less at 4 years. Where are the ideas? What's the vision? We need something or the crisis will worsen. I hesitate to mention a congessional candidate in New York wants to disarm police because we might not be that far away from someone here having that idea.

Some think that only a few people post here and that might be true but I believe they echo the thoughts of many. Maybe instead of viewing these people as negative or disguntled, ask yourself why do they post. I think it is because they have a vested interest in this agency and truly care but are at their wits end with the same old shit. The system is broken and changes are needed. The sad part though is this forum has little to no affect on the admin. And to those to say, be part of the committe and make a change. As someone previously stated a proposal for a new promotion process was sent up well over a year ago only for DL to say several months later he hadn't seen it. It has since been reworked and sent up again. Not sure where it stands.....

To those who actively express your frustrations/concerns up your chain, I commend you. I am curious as to how far up that information makes it. I would assume no higher than Captain and that is a shame. To those in admin just remember we are a reflection of your leadership or lack of. Also as someone said previously, what legacy do you want to leave?


Well said everything you need to know is in your post. Well thought out and relayed. As for the promotional process it was sent up last July and as of yesterday when we met with the sheriff he hadn't seen it. Why would it take four months to go from the law enforcement chief to the sheriff? The problem is said to rest in the laps of the Sergeants and Lieutenants. Unfortunately everyone knows that isn't the case. The command staff are the problem and there isn't an easier way to say it. The sheriff said he received one proposal this year when there have been many that were cut off before they made it to his desk. If he wants to see all then everyone below his rank should be sending them through.

Once he realizes that components of his command staff are the problem the better we will be. I have sat through many of the forums and listened how he wouldn't promote negativity when several on his command staff are just that. Deputies sat through SKIP meetings only to be told no at every turn. Not we can look into it juts a plain nope not going to entertain it. Somebody wants to just act as if the command staff does no wrong when we all understand that none of are perfect and together we grow. The command staff isn't fertilizing the ranks and making them grow, they are spraying Roundup every chance they get.

I know you read this Sheriff so for the sake of the agency please start at the top and address their negativity and their not following of your directions. None of us want us to fail and we all want the agency to thrive.

[Unregistered]

Stop putting each other down. Instead give these new sergeants a chance and the encouragement they need to succeed.

Arrest don’t make a leader. The overall objective of the Sheriffs Office is to enhance life by reducing crime and the f.o.c. Nothing in that statements says “make as many arrests as possible.”

Let’s not judge so quickly and continue to rally for positive change without becoming part of the problem.

Sure, arrests don't make a leader. However, the lack of demonstrated proof that you can do the job of those you are expected to supervise doesn't make a leader either. The point is not that there are two arrests in four years. The point is that this person will now be placed in a position where they are expected to supervise those who will be making arrests, but to teach them how to improve their skills in that area as well. Promotions should not be a statistical contest, but you have to show you can do the job before you should be trusted to supervise those who do.

[Unregistered]

1 arrest every 4472 hours. If that doesn't say leadership quality nothing does

[Unregistered]

Clean the house Sheriff...

[Unregistered]

Well said everything you need to know is in your post. Well thought out and relayed. As for the promotional process it was sent up last July and as of yesterday when we met with the sheriff he hadn't seen it. Why would it take four months to go from the law enforcement chief to the sheriff? The problem is said to rest in the laps of the Sergeants and Lieutenants. Unfortunately everyone knows that isn't the case. The command staff are the problem and there isn't an easier way to say it. The sheriff said he received one proposal this year when there have been many that were cut off before they made it to his desk. If he wants to see all then everyone below his rank should be sending them through.

Once he realizes that components of his command staff are the problem the better we will be. I have sat through many of the forums and listened how he wouldn't promote negativity when several on his command staff are just that. Deputies sat through SKIP meetings only to be told no at every turn. Not we can look into it juts a plain nope not going to entertain it. Somebody wants to just act as if the command staff does no wrong when we all understand that none of are perfect and together we grow. The command staff isn't fertilizing the ranks and making them grow, they are spraying Roundup every chance they get.

I know you read this Sheriff so for the sake of the agency please start at the top and address their negativity and their not following of your directions. None of us want us to fail and we all want the agency to thrive.

Hear! Hear!

Whoever said that most of the line supervisors in this agency are disgruntled is just plain wrong. The morale issue at this place is not the fault of the sergeants, it’s the command staff who care more about making their next promotion rather than caring for their people.

The Sheriff does read this forum because he constantly references things brought up here in his meetings. Hey Sheriff, how about instead of holding the sergeant’s feet to the fire you clear out your command suite? What a sigh of relief your agency would breathe if you cleaned house. Drain the swamp and get some leaders who know how to think of their people first and themselves last!

[Unregistered]

How about a vote of no confidence in the command staff??

#draintheSCSOswamp

[Unregistered]

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, DL is the problem?

[Unregistered]

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, DL is the problem?

The sheriff at least attempts to be transparent and make decisions for the good of everyone. Can you say the same of the admin?

Admittedly the sheriff is responsible for his people and should be holding them accountable.

[Unregistered]

Those in Admin just need to make a convincing argument over any issue that they mention to Sheriff in a casual conversation walking briskly down the stairs, and then they act. It appears they can act unilaterally (because the Sheriff only considered one side as quickly briefed), and they can act with impunity (because technically he was briefed). Admin can deny ideas as proposed, gain approval for bad ideas, make changes that negatively impact workers and their careers, and are likely praised for their shortsighted ingenuity.
Healthy dissent is dismissed when objections are raised from below and the Sheriff likely didn't even know there was any. The same crap happens at the Captain's level. Dissent is stomped out.

If Chief pocketbook is involved, more power is wielded there than anywhere. It's all about the money there and the people are a distant afterthought, if considered at all. The raises? Appreciated but somewhat of a shell game, costing us in other areas in benefits to help fund them.

Not until you listen to dissent and will promote some to Admin and upper management that will be a dissenting voice, and appreciated for that role, will you have a healthy leadership team. It's desperately needed by any administration. Leadership? Knowledge on paper doesn't equal demonstrated ability. Some of them are smart but inexperienced. Some are bullyish. Some just aren't that smart.

It all rests on the shoulders at the top of the chain at the end of the day. I hope, for all of our sakes, he'll grow in his role and learn how to handle the Administration folks with the same toughness as the bully Chief D and P Captain handles us.

[Unregistered]

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe, DL is the problem?

If you mean he's the problem because he's in charge of the agency and is ultimately accountable for what goes on, sure. If you think he's causing the problems, I disagree. He has people in his command staff who are not held accountable for what they do, even when it directly contradicts 17-1's direction. Those in the command staff have that attitude trickle down to captains, to lieutenants, who run their areas as their own personal fiefdom with little to no regard for what's good for the agency, but rather what's good for them. Until DL has a team in place that is willing to embody servant leadership-i.e., putting the mission before themselves-these issues will continue to crop up. A lot of the current command structure seems more involved in trying to grab more power for themselves than actually working to do a good job where they are currently assigned.

[Unregistered]

I guess the Dakota Indians were in the same boat we are in:

https://amp.theguardian.com/money/1999/nov/26/workandcareers1

This place absolutely unreal. I’m so glad opioids are more important than our employees.

[Duh!!]

LMFAO!

It’s not about us it’s about the re-election campaign! Wake up and smell the opioids!

Here’s a simple test:

Ask the Chiefs if any proposals or emails are addressed to the Sheriff and see what date they are time stamped. So much for things being forwarded up the chain in a timely manner! Yes, us malcontents don’t know what we are talking about!