At the risk of sounding positive

[I'mNobody]

Many of you have much to complain about, for that I'm sorry. Many of you have hurt feelings, again...I'm sorry. But many of you also have the ability to help our Agency become what you wish it was. For that, I'm asking for your help.

Without unreasonable negativity and name calling, can you respond with the hardest issue you facing coming into work each day.

Maybe bringing some simplicity to the issues we're all facing will help bring some much needed resolution.

And for those who will inevitably wonder, I really am nobody to this Agency.

[Unregistered]

I can't really say a lot about the deputy's because I don't work in that division, but I believe we all need to be heard, including the civilians.

[Silence Dogood]

I agree with all the past negativity. People are upset and the people who are oblivious to it OR are part of the problem bash them telling them to leave. It’s difficult to be positive or even want to come to work when you have the Sheriff telling everyone in the forum that supervisors shouldn’t be doing certain things or saying “that’s not happening”. Then quite literally on several occasions I have heard or seen supervisors doing exactly what the Sheriff said is not happening, once was the same day of the forum.

The list of problems in my opinion are everywhere and are easily seen. But wait that’s because I actually do my job and listen to the radio, check in on my colleagues (both for well being as well as accountability AND for the big one....correct people when they are out of line or violating policy or doing things unsafe or just plain stupid and tacti-fool. I’m not worried about tweeting and what’s trending or how many stupid emojis are tied to a ridiculous picture I posted to everyone of my vacation while all my colleagues are working.

Maybe some real accountability would happen if ALL of the supervisors would come out of their crystal palaces and actually see what’s going on. They are too far disconnected with what’s really going on! Those details won’t work themselves! Or someone will work a detail but not work patrol or fill in at a school. Probably because that would require a uniform or shaving and they can do what they want at a detail anyways. But we know that doesn’t happen, they have too many projects or major ignorant policies to create.

Simple things like oh maybe letting a uniformed person wear a load bearing or tac vest to salvage their back, or maybe wear a green SO ball cap so they don’t have cancer, little things like that make people know we are the valuable resource. We can’t be progressive like other agencies that do that but we sure can rock the hell out of some social media. Maybe the next mass casualty event that occurs we will be known for all our great posts. I’m sure the people that call the police are worried about how nice our class B are or better yet how authoritative our campaign hats look. We are naturally more involved with the community when we are happy to come to work. We don’t need all this pseudo fake news we are so happy propaganda. If we cared about our people we would take care of them then they would work harder. Oh wait I believe that’s a basic trait of true leadership.

So are you saying if we relaxed the uniform policy everything is fixed? Hell no.

Oh so you’re saying if supervisors actually supervised things will be better? Hell no.

I’m saying step back for minute and check yourself. What’s really important? Where am I failing? What have I done to empower my troops. Do I even know anything about my troops? Am I more worried about people liking me or my next career move OR do I wear my chevrons, bars or stars because I legitimately earned them and know how to use them the way they are supposed to be used.

[Unregistered]

Staffing, Staffing, and Staffing

We are short staffed and out of nowhere, they pull together units that we don't need and don't have the staff for. We don't need a loss prevention unit, SCORE did not need another LT, NRDs did not need a Sergeant.

[I'mNodody]

Thank you,

-staffing
-employee input

Who reiterates the same or what other issues are you facing?

[I'mNobody]

"Silence DoGood" I didn't mean to exclude you from the list but I didn't see your post prior to my last reply. Thank you for contributing! If you're willing, Can you try and classify what you consider to be the hardest issue you face going into work each day? As in, If you had to isolate one issue to address? I understand there are many things we disagree with or wish to change, my hope with this thread is to establish a poll of our highest priority issues and later develop solutions.

[Unregistered]

Let’s work through this problem logically.

Staffing has the greatest correlation to low moral at this agency at this time. Every department is spread razor thin and one person has to do the work of many. PTO is limited, overtime is denied, classes and transfers are delayed indefinitely. Lack of career advancement and lack of rest have a crushing affect on moral.

To improve staffing we have to provide an incentive for recruitment and retention. The Sheriff has explained several times county money is limited so we can’t possibly compete with other agencies to incentivize with money. So we have to offer other benefits to compete with other agencies. Like what? Eliminate the tattoo restrictions, eliminate the beard restrictions, offer load bearing vest instead of polyester. We are an agency stuck in the past. We demand pressed polyester uniforms with polished brass and leather belts. We get the largest, most cumbersome body cameras on the market. We can’t even wear ball caps in the rain for goodness sake. We have to evolve in order to compete with other agencies. These benefits cost us literally nothing and yet we continue on like we have no idea why people flee to work at other agencies.

So what is keeping us from evolving and offering the most basic, obvious incentives? Clearly an administration that is disconnected with it’s people. The top managers don’t know or don’t care about what incentivizes their people. We’ve abandoned promoting leaders and instead rely on mangers. They get the job done but run their people into the ground. True leaders understand what motivates their people and care more about the wellbeing of their subordinates rather than their next promotion. Leadership is not about being “in charge”; it’s about caring for those in your charge.

Want to generate positivity? Take care of your people.
Promote people who take care of their people.
Show that you actually care about your people.

If you don’t care about your people at least tell us so we can seek employment somewhere else with a clear conscience.

[Silence Dogood]

Much agreed.

It’s almost as if some of our comments are out of a Leadership book.

I’m not super smart but I’ve read a plethora of books. From the Leadership Challenge to All of Covey’s books even making Magic and everything in between. A lot of people read books to be part of the “in crowd” and obviously didn’t take any of the traits to heart. But what is more disheartening is that the lack of leadership is rampant at all levels.

Almost all books I read describe that organizations that have people that aren’t happy usually have a distinct lack of leadership and lack of communication. With that said we have gotten better about certain communications. But the supervisors need to step up their games. Nothing is more nauseating in the forum when the Sheriff offers to fix things but it’s nothing but crickets or someone trying to
say look at me.

Leadership is about inspiring others to follow you into battle. Leadership is horizontal not vertical.

If a simple minded person like myself can see it why can’t the others.

Case in point a certain division that could never be staffed has people flocking to it. Is it the pay? Is it the super exciting police work? Nope. They have a one hell of leader.

[Silence Dogood]

Agreed about the simplicity of the solution. Lack of leadership is rampant in this organization.

The discontent of the employees is direct byproduct of said problem.

Our many posts resemble what many of the great leadership books identify as the epitome of leadership failure. Interestingly enough all of our leaders read books because it would help them to fit in the “in crowd”. They could pop off some really eloquent quotes or regurgitate some new buzz words but all along they had no idea what they were doing. This leadership facade is similar to the old “golf cliques” or “motorcycle gangs”. People wanting to move up the ladder so badly they’d do anything to grab the next rung.

I’m a few fries short of a happy meal but I have read a few books in my time. From the Leadership Challenge to all of Covey’s books to even Making Magic and probably everything in between, I’ve read a lot.

What’s notable is that when you see all the discontent in an organization, it’s directly proportional to the leadership. Yet in our organization they point fingers, blame other administrators, identify people as “disgruntled” or any host of other reasons to point the blame in other directions other than the four fingers pointing back at themselves. Or better yet they turn a blind eye citing plausible deniability or enforce policies on who and when they want to. We have all heard or been in the forum where the Sheriff himself is offering to fix problems and when he asks what to do you hear? Crickets! Everyone is happy in our division! No issues to report sir! I have no idea what’s going on in my division but that’s ok, my Sgt, my Lt, my Capt, my Chief have no idea either! But oh wait sir, let me be a pea**** and show my feathers of how great I am!

What about all of those non producing special positions that have been created? Yes I went there. All of those people that spend their time shifting their hours so they can work details when they should be in the office or conducting (wait for it) investigations. All of those special investigators that have an impeccable track record. All those people that have all of a year or two of experience but couldn’t produce on the road but needed that unmarked soo badly. Yes a search of cafe is easy to see who really produces.

What is really amazing how people are fighting each other to go work a detail but yet we are leaving patrol understaffed. So let’s look at this, our constitutional obligation to serve our county is neglected but we are quick to serve a construction company or church or private citizen because they want a deputy or because they are cutting a check? Seriously are we that out of touch? When did reducing crime and the fear of crime get replaced with servicing all the off duty requests first? Did I miss one of the millions of revisions that were sent out by someone that had no real patrol experience? But I guess if all these upper echelon allow it it must be copasetic. I mean all those supervisors must know that they are changing their office hours to work details right? As long as their closing cases who cares right? I’m just saying that if my people were saying I was not in the office today cause I needed to work a detail fine. I get it, we need money. But every day? Or when I see someone that has a beard and worked a detail the next day still had a beard? Hmm maybe this investigation stuff is more complex than needing a GED.

Which brings me back to my original point. Leadership or lack there of. If we actually had some real leadership things would change. Maybe they should do what some of the cities do and rotate people out of specialty positions (investigators, etc) every 3 years. GASP!! OMG!! See how many of the people in 100 and Depot Ave (http://forums.leoaffairs.com/x-apple-data-detectors://1) would be like pump the brakes that’s not cool! See how fast they start producing or....what would really happen is they would give us all this song and dance of how they are specially trained and it takes them years to be proficient in their position. Did anyone realize that the cities have some brilliance in that people get too comfortable in positions and should be rotated out? I mean don’t get me wrong they still do some jacked up stuff. Some agencies still rotate patrol shifts days to nights back to days. We have people that retire in positions.

So to my friend “I’mNobody”, no offense taken. It sickens me to even acknowledge you as that because you are somebody. I am certain you have raving evaluations that make you look like someone our organization can’t live without. You probably seek guidance from your supervisors of how to improve or what you can do better and are probably told “nothing” or “you’re great, I wish I had more of you”. That coupled with your personnel folder that’s probably exploding with pointless mor’s for just doing your job, just add to your frustration. I highly doubt you are the only one out there.


My biggest problem everyday is the lack of leadership. And before ya’ll say some copout of get promoted and change things....grow up. We all know #1 isn’t always promoted. And if I hear the Sheriff say I don’t want people saying “that’s what the Sheriff wants” then I hear people say “that’s what the Sheriff wants” the same day...well we know that the disconnect and lack of leadership hasn’t changed. But then again it’s not about us. Sheriff, all of the things you say aren’t happening or you don’t want happening, ARE happening on all levels.


Fix the leadership and a lot of the other problems will work themselves out. Leadership is about inspiring others to follow you into battle. Leadership is horizontal, not vertical. There’s one division that was always understaffed but now they have people transferring left and right to it. Is it the money? Is the super exciting police work? Nope. They have one hell of a leadership team.

[I'mNobody]

Thank you all for the input!

-Staffing
-Employee Input
-Leadership

I'm well aware this silly list is an over simplification of complex issues. The list also lacks any hint of how to solve them. This is intentional. As this conversation developes, and all ideas are shared, I want to keep reiterating our focus.

If we establish the largest across the board problems, develope multiple solutions, and share them with substantial support from employees at our Agency, then eventually, with hopefully many voices, we can create one strong voice that can't be credited as "a few malcontents" and that voice will be heard by those who can bring change.

[Unregistered]

Almost all books I read describe that organizations that have people that aren’t happy usually have a distinct lack of leadership and lack of communication. With that said we have gotten better about certain communications. But the supervisors need to step up their games. Nothing is more nauseating in the forum when the Sheriff offers to fix things but it’s nothing but crickets or someone trying to
say look at me.



I think we are in the same page but I have to disagree with this statement. Communication from our leadership is shocking.

If a deputy intentionally lies they are crucified in the public square and their professional lives are over.

When a member of our command staff knowingly lies and misrepresents the Sheriff’s words...what? Oh it was just a miscommunication. Oh the Sheriff wasn’t clear.

How many times has the Sheriff been forced to come out and backtrack based on information erroneously disseminated by the command staff? Too many.

This is our vote of no confidence in the command staff of this agency. You don’t care about us and don’t have our best interest at heart. Please leave.

[Unregistered]

Wishful thinking......

[Another Nobody]

Let’s be real people, we’re all nobody’s in this Agency. Dennis is all about image and if you fail to fall within his bubble of followers then prepare to be left behind. When was the last time anyone has seen Dennis anywhere near the road connecting with SNP Deputies? When was the last time anyone has seen Dennis at or near the Courthouse or Jail connecting with Deputies there? When was the last time anyone has seen Dennis pop in to any Investigative Unit and ask how’s it going? As a matter a fact if it doesn’t include a camera crew and a few lap dogs then Dennis has no time for you. His Forum is an absolute waste of time, and his complete disconnect from the working men and women here is clearly evident. It looks like we all have to adjust to this political landscape and get used to Dennis beefing up his image for his prosperous future. There is no greater demoralizing feeling than knowing that your leader gives you 50 percent effort and requires 110 from everyone else.
#You’veLostThatLovingFeeling

[Unregistered]

He took a dump at the training center last week and waved at everyone 👋

[Unregistered]

Let’s be real people, we’re all nobody’s in this Agency. Dennis is all about image and if you fail to fall within his bubble of followers then prepare to be left behind. When was the last time anyone has seen Dennis anywhere near the road connecting with SNP Deputies? When was the last time anyone has seen Dennis at or near the Courthouse or Jail connecting with Deputies there? When was the last time anyone has seen Dennis pop in to any Investigative Unit and ask how’s it going? As a matter a fact if it doesn’t include a camera crew and a few lap dogs then Dennis has no time for you. His Forum is an absolute waste of time, and his complete disconnect from the working men and women here is clearly evident. It looks like we all have to adjust to this political landscape and get used to Dennis beefing up his image for his prosperous future. There is no greater demoralizing feeling than knowing that your leader gives you 50 percent effort and requires 110 from everyone else.
#You’veLostThatLovingFeeling

Bingo. Dennis Lemma cares about one thing: Dennis Lemma. Oh, and SCORE. So he can you know, impress the governors wife in the hopes of getting some other state level job. He’s out of touch, never been a real cop, and pretends he gives a **** about you. He is the most disingenuous fool of an elected official I’ve ever seen.

[Unregistered]

I agree with y'all that the Forum is pretty much a waste of time, but the Sheriff is the same guy who went out of his way to help me, a nobody, when I started at SCSO. I think that guy's still in there, but I think he gets blocked sometime by the facts that he can't please everyone and people around him who try to stage manage what he sees. He's not unaware of the sentiments expressed here and I think he's working on them. As hard or as fast as we'd like? Probably not, but we're still in line for a good raise this year and hopefully next year as well.

Also, if you pay attention to such things, Orange County's contract negotiations have stalled because their former Sheriff who's now the County Mayor, doesn't want to budget for comparable raises in the new contract. They're about to come crashing back down to earth in a big hurry.

[Silence Dogood]

I didn’t mean all communication, I just meant some information is flowing up and down. I know the double standard is alive and well. We all know policies only apply to who they want them to be applied.


We all know what his agenda appears to be. His actions and inactions have proven this over and over. With that said let’s try to stay constructive. Let’s try to stay on topic and make one last attempt to educate people reading (both our people and anyone else who wants to read) and bring to their attention what is wrong and what could be done to fix it. The last thing I want to see is all the name bashing and pot stirring from people that do and don’t even work here. If you left for whatever reason that is fine in my book. But please don’t make our situation any worse. We are still in the trenches and barely keeping our heads afloat. It’s hard enough to herd some cats but toss a few snakes in it and sprinkle it with some OC and you get one heck of a party! It’s always great to put a quarter in the old juck-box and laugh at the chaos and mayhem from the sidelines. Hardly productive nonetheless. Most of us already know the other drama and the secret deals and the like.


I agree he is protected from certain things and there are others things he does know about. We don’t need to get carried away with bashing people and name calling and other ignorant stuff. If you want some of that garbage go follow some people and look at that ignorant stuff they tag themselves too. Like most people (key word most), the inverted (or inversely proportional) hierarchy affected them. One could call it drinking the “Kool-Aid” if they were so inclined. The higher up they went, the more they lost focus of what and who is important to them and the more they focus on themselves. It’s almost like the letter “X”. The center of the X is the person themself and the bottom part of the X is a representation of who their span of control but the upper part of the X, shows what they are trying to do for themselves. Their personal wants are much more (inversely proportional) than the what’s important now.

[I'mNobody]

Alas, anonymity and spite have ruined what could have been a good conversation. This thread is rendered useless by negativity and name calling. If you would be humble enough to except one piece of advise from a nobody, instead of pointing out and yelling at all that is broken, just put some effort into fixing it. Good luck to you all.

[Unregistered]

Here is an idea, instead of stroking people's ego's, call them out. It's really sad there are supervisors that have HUGE ego's, they don't care about their people, they only care about how can they move up and "look at me"

[Unregistered]

Alas, anonymity and spite have ruined what could have been a good conversation. This thread is rendered useless by negativity and name calling. If you would be humble enough to except one piece of advise from a nobody, instead of pointing out and yelling at all that is broken, just put some effort into fixing it. Good luck to you all.

Not true at all. I have no desire to name call or drudge up drama. However we have to call a spade a spade. We have to hold our leadership accountable. I could care less what they do in their personal lives but everything they do has a direct correlation to the success or failure of this agency. We can make a bullet point list of every concern in this agency, but we have to recognize the administration has a direct impact on every concern; positively or negatively. I’m going to call out poor leadership when I see it, and we have poor leadership. Admin openly lies or misrepresents what the Sheriffs says. We don’t trust them, or at least don’t believe they have our best interest at heart. Most have their eye turned upwards, looking for their next promotion. Rather than looking downward, at where they came from and the people in their charge. Take care of your people and they will take care of you.

[Silence Dogood]

Ok so then what do you recommend us do?

We have attended countless skip meetings and have talked to many in our chain of command and yet nothing changes. Many of us have given examples of how to fix things yet they fall on deaf ears.

People say fix it yourself or stop complaining yet when we try to fix something, we are still met with a supervisory response of “the sheriff won’t do that” or “it’s out of my pay grade” or “it happened before I was here” when we discuss things with our supervisors/committee members. Almost everyday someone or some division violates or does what the sheriff says ISN’T happening.

The past threads were mostly out of control. But there were quite a few facts put out. Laying in wait all this time I sat and watched and processed everything. I saw this thread as maybe an opportunity. The admin is quite aware of all this information being put out, and maybe this was an opportunity for them once again see key points that are still occurring even though they say it’s not. Maybe when an outside source knocks on their door they will have to accept some responsibility and face the facts. Hopefully they consider that as they have already began the “look at us social media campaign” prepping themselves for election campaigns.

So if you started this thread with compiling issues that needed fixing, you must have a master plan. Do you plan on having a meeting with the sheriff? What’s your plan of action besides compiling a list? Do you plan on going to the media? Do you plan on sharing it with us? Do you just plan on collecting stats(issues) and hoping he’ll be inspired to change? It’s tough to follow someone without direction.

You’d be amiss to think that some negativity would come out. Go talk to some people in other divisions personally and see what they say. A lot of them say the same things that are being posted. People are disgusted with this place and struggle to come to work everyday. Others come in and do the bare minimum and keep their head underground citing they want to be “under the radar”. I think we are trying to minimize what slandering comes out like the other threads, but you must take into account that this has been pent up for quite some time and everyone is tired of the lies and propaganda.

Perhaps you should expound on your plan for all of us who have been waiting for an opportunity to salvage this train wreck. Lists or stats are nice but you should back it up with a clear plan of action and not just fishing.

Case in point, we saw mentioning before of “pto is out of control”.

Which first of all, anyone who ever read a leadership book knows an increase use of pto or sick leave is a direct result of lack of leadership and accountability.

Secondly, anyone can play the numbers game.

Was there EVER any display or mention of specific people or divisions of the out of control pto? Nope. Was there ever a list of every employee and their assignment? No, there were generalizations only. OK so if I was in charge and made that claim, I’d show usage based on division, officer, etc.

I’d put a disclaimer of deputy A used so many hours but that deputy A was assigned to SRD and is off summer break, winter break, Thanksgiving break, spring break, school holiday, etc.

I’d say deputy B was off due to having 2 kids and used a bunch of UPTO because their kids were sick.

I’d say Sgt D took a bunch of time off because Sgt E was working.

I’d say Sgt F or Deputy G took off a bunch of time so they good work off duty details.

I’d say Deputy H was out on FMLA.

I’d say Deputy J has been here 20 years and had used minimal pto over 20 years and has “saved” or was denied pto over the years and so now they are using it.

I’d say Sgt K took off because Lt L allowed them too.

You probably get the picture. No names needed because we know examples of someone that probably fell into one or multiple categories.

Ironically, NONE of that was ever disclosed. I’d even go as far to disclose how many hours of off duty people worked in relation to their normal hours (oh snap!) just to keep things fair and transparent. Again, one would need to identify that a shift person could work a lot off off duty compared to someone assigned admin type schedules. But then again, policy enforcement only applies to certain people.

However, everyone was lumped together and told that we had too generous of a pto plan.

Why didn’t they put out a list with all those breakdowns? If they did they’d have to justify why all those supervisors allowed it all to happen.

Yes it sounds like a broken record but Leadership is what drives this place. I can’t change my supervisors, THEIR supervisors need to change them.

[Unregistered]

I think you hit the nail on the head. This conversation may be beneficial but ultimately irrelevant unless our leadership can be honest about our weaknesses. It seemed that at the outset of his appointment the Sheriff was working to include more employee feedback and involvement. Yeah maybe the surveys were lame, but they at least made us feel like we had a voice. You’ll also notice the periodic video messages from the Sheriff have stopped, so good luck getting a straight answer if you have a question. We can’t trust our leadership since everyone seems to become a mute at the forums or joins the chorus of “everything is great”. The problem is systemic and I can only assume everyone listening to the Sheriff in the admin meetings either doesn’t care or ignores what he says since it’s not a part of their agenda. Heaven forbid you bring that up or fight for your people since you’ll be labeled as a “problem”. To be blunt, if the Sheriff wants the most honest opinion from his staff, the anonymity of this forum is the best place for it right now. The culture of fear is set; the only way to voice opinions for improvement is to speak anonymously.

We have a bunch of people playing leader who don’t have the courage to speak truth for the sake of their subordinates. Common sense policies are abandoned under the guise of poor public perception (Whose perception? Who knows?!). Our agency can’t compete with other agencies because we choose not to. We understand that our pay is always a struggle, but easily changed policies such as uniforms, tattoos, etc are not even considered. We can’t hire or retain just based on the merit of the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office anymore. We’ve become a forgettable training agency that others shake their head at because of the outdated policies and leadership. Employees leave in droves and we act like it’s not happening. Everyone is asked to do more with less and we wonder why we can’t maintain our staffing levels.

Am I the only one who sees this as a cyclic issue? Am I crazy if I see a correlation between the added stress of low staffing, no PTO, longer hours, more work which causes people to leave, which in turn compounds the stress of employees left behind?

[Unregistered 007]

This places is nothing more than a mirage. We are continually told how great the organization is when in fact we are the laughing stock of central Florida. Minimum staffing levels can be and are almost always gone below as my sergeant isn't allowed to use overtime to bring us to the minimum level. PTO is scarce due to the staffing levels as we can't hire enough deputies due to our low pay rate. I have documented my PTO requests that have been denied over the past year and when I retire I am more than happy to bring legal action to be paid for all the hours I couldn't use and was taken back by finance.

Finance is another hot button. The finance chief is a joke who lied to the committee formed to review our pay and benefits. Great ideas were brought to the committee and they suggested them only to be told not going to happen. This chief is only concerned in what she can remove from the budget that make her look better. Division heads have no say in their budget as she tells them what they should have. Maybe she should find a new employer and we can find someone who understands what a law enforcement organization needs to function. The new office furnishings in finance are very nice I hear. Remember your big 5% raises isn't a lot when what your basing it off what is below everyone around us.

Skip meeting were just that, something we should have skipped as every suggestion was greeted with the same response, "NO" we can't so that. The law enforcement chief is so worried about bringing a suggestion out of those meeting he decided its easier to just say no, What is going to be skipped is the line to apply at this place as pay, benefits and working conditions are way below that of agencies our size.

Orange County and Orlando Police are the verge of significant pay raises this year while we linger is obscurity at the pay window. Wait for the people to leave when they realize I can go do less years at Orlando and have better pay, benefits and actually get paid a reasonable amount for off duty work. If I go to Orange County I keep my FRS and receive better pay and once again can work off duty for no less than $40 an hour and can make upwards of $75 a hour for certain jobs.

I also wonder what would happen if I wore my uniform or badge to traffic court to fight a citation I received? Hopefully nothing like our lobbyist received after wearing his sheriff's office badge on his suit pocket. Wonder if he was seeking special consideration? For the record, what does he do in fact other than make over $120,000 a year?

I realize I am a newbie at 6 years but it doesn't take a genius to see that with some of our current leaders we are in for a significant downward spiral to hit us in just a few months. I hope the sheriff realizes that the ship is in danger of capsizing and without an immediate turn we are going down. I am tired of being denied PTO which I have earned, tired or running at dangerously low staffing levels and tired of suggestions falling of deaf ears.

We are SCSO? No, we are in danger of becoming the laughingstock of law enforcement of central Florida. And if you're wondering, yes I have applied at both Orange County Sheriff's Office and Orlando Police. My process is going smoothly and I have been told many of my coworkers are in the process with me. To those with too many years to make the change and those just afraid to do so I wish you luck and hope things get better for you all as each and very one of you deserves better.

Hopefully this will be my last time to read this forum as in October I hope to be at a new agency.

[Silence Dogood]

I would agree with you in that too many of our so called leaders are more concerned with what new project they can spearhead, which committee they can be on “to represent the troops” or what they can do to make themselves look better pretty much anything but their real jobs.


Our agency is full of supervisors that are do as I say not as I do mentality. Granted, a bunch were promoted before the current administration, but there have been more than enough since the new administration took the helm. Please don’t misconstrue that all of them are like that, we still have a handful that are incredible. We also have others that have potential, but they are misguided by their supervisors. All one has to do is look at all the social media posts they make about being on vacation or what they aren’t doing while their subordinates are working. Even better yet is when you see all the others that “like” their posts. Talk about condoning their behavior? Holy smokes plus the whole world sees it.


Everyone turns a blind eye to everything. Nobody has the gumption to call a spade a spade. Everyone has an excuse. If you talk to your supervisor they say it’s out of their pay grade or it’s what the sheriff wants.


Does the sheriff know what’s going on at ground level? No. Do I expect him to? No. Do I expect him to listen to his most valuable resources? YES! It’s sad that so many people don’t give him the honest feedback of what’s really going on. Why listen to the most valuable resource when you can listen to a bunch of private sector people, cops with no real experience or civilians giving you advice on how to run a Law Enforcement organization? I’d be curious if we surveyed other counties or cities, just how much of their command staff was civilian or from the private sector. I’m sure Disney, Starbucks and Panera have a huge need for law enforcement in their upper echelon, so it only makes sense that we include them in ours. I’m a master at toasting bagels but it hardly qualifies me to run their company.


Skip what? I was told by one person that their division never even had a skip meeting with the chief, they only had it with their captain. How is the sheriff to even know what’s going on when the chief is yelling at people in one skip meeting or when troops are only meeting with a captain? Maybe the problem is with the captains and chiefs? I mean if I wanted an unfiltered, unwatered down answer of what’s going on, I’d ask the end user. Why would I ask the person who’s gonna look bad for not doing their job in leading people? Of course everything is unicorns and rainbows! It’s sad we have to result to this forum for the sheriff to see what’s really going on in our organization.


We celebrate mediocrity with absolute garbage lip service and ridiculous role model videos or other recognition. Here’s a novel idea, search cafe and see who’s actually doing the reports and work. We all know the people that do a great job and we all know the ones that are one conversation or one traffic stop away from a lawsuit. I’m over the “I did my time” or “I’m in a specialty unit and I don’t have to do it”. Maybe instead of dumbing our standards down we should raise our standards, we used to be a place that took people 2 or 3 times of applying before getting hired. We were already light years ahead other places (maybe not pay) but with many other things. This place has turned into one of those rapid intensification cycles just like the hurricanes do when they hit that nice warm water. But just like the hurricanes it can’t maintain that intensity for long. Our sustainability doesn’t seem anywhere close to possible and definitely not logical. We can only band aid so many things, move problem people to other areas or turn blind eyes for so long.


So yes I know people keep saying it’s all because the sheriff wants a job in Tallahassee. Well good for him, I hope he gets whatever he wants. Maybe that’s not the case. I don’t know I’ve never been told. He’s always had high expectations just like you should have for yourself. I don’t care about what he spends his money on either to be frank. I’ve seen quite a few other people rolling up in nice cars over the years. I’ve seen people with huge homes and tons of really cool toys. I’ve seen some new trucks and campers that cost quite a bit more than some used Maserati. I’ve seen people pay for their entire kids college education too. I’ve also seen a lot people better themselves and be able to move from shitty little apartments and homes into nice beautiful homes that are in better school zones for their kids. Granted they maybe killed themselves working off duties or overtime to pay for it, but nonetheless they recognized what needed to be done and then they set out a plan to accomplish the objective. We shouldn’t be worried about nuances like that. We should focus on our organization.


Hopefully in his pursuit of wherever or whatever he wants, he doesn’t forget the legacy he is building daily. Most leaders truly want to leave a great legacy behind. I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night knowing some place I managed was running sub par. I’d be working feverishly to make things right. You can’t go play if the works not done.


If he left right now what would his legacy be? The same goes for any of us as well. If he left right now, what mess would his predecessor inherit? I know the sheriff said the same thing when he inherited this position, our problems didn’t happen over night. So the big question is, when it comes time to hand off the reigns, are we just continuing the same cycle of passing the blame game or is the handoff one where the incoming person is blown away by how everything is running. On behalf of myself and others that feel the same way, please read these posts and take action.


We used to train ‘em and trust ‘em. Now we don’t do either of them. Like so many of us that come in every day trying to be the team player and not leave our partners hanging, it’s getting harder and harder to come in and hear and see and deal with all the stuff going on around us. We know the grass isn’t greener in the other pasture but this article is noteworthy. I wonder how many leaders know their troops are looking, thinking, wondering?



https://www.linkedin.com/content-guest/article/what-happens-right-before-your-best-employee-quits-greg-roche (https://www.linkedin.com/content-guest/article/what-happens-right-before-your-best-employee-quits-greg-roche)

[Practice what you preach]

A recent email was sent by one of the few leaders at the sheriff's office on how law enforcement is struggling to attract and retain employees. I read this extensive article and after comparing what we currently do is apparent we are doing basically nothing suggested in the story. We do nothing to improve moral, albeit they tell you there isn't a moral issue. Take the SARA model and apply it to moral.

Two things, similar in nature that have the ability to cause harm. So is it possible we don't have two people within the agency who have the same problem with moral? Entire shifts in both law enforcement and corrections have moral issues. Unable to take personal time off, micromanaging supervisors who aren't ever held accountable. Why would almost and entire shift request a transfer at the same time? Our response is usually move the supervisor with no corrective measures placed on the supervisor.

A good portion of the command staff needs to go. If the sheriff ever expects to empower the troops he needs to promote those within the ranks that are respected and don't due their best to run the troops into the ground with their consistent negativity. Its not the men and women doing the day to day work who are negative its the people who are in the command staff who bully and demean the hard working men and women who serve on the front lines of the agency.

Sir, we deserve better and we definitively want you as the agency leader to take a hard look at your command staff and see where the problems are at. In 12 years of service I have never seen things so bad as to cause the sheriff to broadcast the audio of the forums so that his words and visions can't be misconstrued by command staff when they come back to the regions and divisions and put their spin on his words. We all know who the problem staff are and we know who are there to make things better and to improve both moral and working conditions. We can get back to the place we have been in the past but can't with some who make the decisions who are only looking to make themselves look better.

[Silence Dogood]

I agree with Mr Loomis, the courthouse isn’t the red headed stepchild or place for misfits like it used to be. The leadership there is exemplary of the way it should be in the rest of this organization. Yes I know I am commenting on your post on this thread but I refuse to acknowledge some complaining investigators who are upset over losing their family “beach/Disney” cars. Almost all of them conduct follow ups and very few conduct actual surveillance. That thread was by far the most self serving post I’ve seen to date. Quite frankly, as long as I get a car, I’m happy. If it has AC and doesn’t smell like black and milds and Burger King even better. Maybe some of these investigators should actually know what’s it like to get hand me down cars, or hot seat cars or not have take home cars. If they forgot maybe this shakeup will refresh their memory. It is not about them and their convenience, but rather about the mission of the sheriffs office and what kind of service we can provide the people of Seminole county.


I’m sure doing case follow ups requires a 30k+ truck or suv. Most of the victims of crimes could care less what you drive. They just want someone to solve their case.


It’s similar to the whole uniform issue. Everyone is hell bent on some professional look. What is a professional look? Ask any Sgt, Lt or Capt and you’ll get different answers from each and every one of them. All of these supervisors put their personal “taste” on what is or isn’t professional. I can bet you a paycheck that if you asked any Pulse survivor, Marjorie Stoneman survivor, or any plain victim of a crime, did they care what the responding office looked like, the answer would be NO. They just wanted someone that could save their life and/or take the report.


With that said, hopefully after that amazing off mic session with the sheriff, there will actually be some change. He knows now the online forum is full of facts over the incompetence of supervisors from Sgt all the way to the Chiefs.


Between the Sgts being embarrassed by knowing less than their boots on the ground or the commanders who’ve realized that they were so out of touch with reality, let’s see what actually changes. If it’s a simple revamp of the “supervisor leadership training academy” we are all doomed. If he comes and makes some shake ups and starts holding people accountable, then we’ll see he’s truly making this place better.


The forthcoming changes to off duty, attire/grooming are all definitely a step in the right direction. The recent pay adjustments were extra gravy. Thank you!!! Let’s keep the positive changes coming!!

[Unregistered]

Change the tattoo policy

[Unregistered]

What’s really sad is that we have interviews with 17-1 or 17-2 to get hired but we don’t have any subsequent interviews during the promotional process. So it’s important to see who we hire during the application process but not who we promote? I’m glad all of our committees have justified being away from their primary job is more important than their real job. We all know the leadership failures internally but the million dollar question is what will actually be done? The few ridiculous Sgts that were promoted only will fuel the lack of competency and leadership based on who they knew or who they blew. It gives yet another blow to the lack of leadership. Some of them will be awesome. I mean seriously some of them will be stellar non company men and some will be stellar followers of the leadership (failure) library memo that the NR put out. Seriously, how to expect someone with minimal patrol experience, but extensive specialty unit experience, be able to manage a patrol shift. Maybe ask Tara. Does anyone still want to work on her shift? She’s to worried about working off duty and overtime and micromanaging to even know what goes on a patrol shift. But getting advice from Kevin is a solid win. I wonder if the Sheriff even received some emails that boots on the ground sent up. Probably not since several of the command staff block everything. I know first hand some were supposed to be forwarded up. Hmmmm. But when you have people filtering everything based on their beliefs or their wants, you have a different animal. Maybe they could ask training why they didn’t offer the standard block 2 firearms training due to a birds nest. Yes, a birds nest is more important than SRDs receiving the same training as everyone one else for block 2 Firearms. So they are supposed to be the best to protect all of our Seminole County students. I hope it was at least a an American Eagle nest. But we all know it wasn’t. It just shows you all the things the 17 single digits due to ruin this place. Sheriff, you want to see how competent your command staff is? Put them all in a marked car in a uniform and see how things go for a week. Everyone sees the shit show they are running. They’re plenty more than our recently promoted that have no idea what to do. Some of them haven’t been seen in uniform in years. Who do they work for? What is their mission? What is their subordinates’ mission?

[Unregistered]

Wow. Norfolk, Virginia police now recognize that when citizens need the police, they need the police and aren’t worried about a fashion show. We have some amazing eye candy in uniform and business attire, but they need to read the directions on the box of tissues before they blow their nose. Are we really that worried with appearance over functionality? “Some people can’t grow a beard or if they do they look like they have mange” and “some tattoos may offend people”. The simple solution create GO 104 or whatever number we are at now and say uphold the same standard we do for something WAY more important, Graham vs. Connor. Or even simpler, if you can’t grow a full beard without bare patches at 1/2” length you can’t have one. For the tattoos, take a pic and have the civilian review board vote on it. If they deny it, cover it up. Undoubtedly we’ll have another committee that will put their own spin on it for self betterment rather than asking everyone. If they did that like they did the survey monkey for the SIG 320 they’d probably hate the truth in front of them. If they REALLY want to know what the community thinks, ask them instead making your assumptions. They’d probably welcome that rather than another comfort K9 story or celebration of mediocrity.

[Unregistered]

What is going on in our organization? We seem to applaud mediocrity and endorse everything but what law enforcement is really supposed to be doing.

For eons we’ve typically promoted people and they had to move to night shift as a supervisor. Now we are promoting people straight into command region positions? Regardless if they know the job or not, everyone had “to do their time”. Numerous people refuse to test citing the night shift move. We say one thing and then do something else. I’ve know countless people capable of promoting into place but weren’t, were passed up or quit testing.

You wonder why people are upset? You wonder why people are leaving in droves?

We are told to read leadership books and they all clearly identify all the things this administration is doing wrong. Almost every leadership book suggested talks about low morale and staff retention as a byproduct of lack of leadership. This is not fake news.

Maybe instead of citing plausible deniability card or saying the top 5 run the organization, we actually hold supervisors accountable and tell them to shape up or ship out. There are plenty of other counties that would love to have the command staff working for them rather than us. Instead of dealing with a problem we just pull out the broom and brush the problem somewhere else.

This whole internal whirlpool is getting out of control. How many more people need to leave before someone steps up and answers the leadership call? Maybe when minimum staffing isn’t filled they will figure it out. How many emails and texts about staffing do we have to get before people start swiping left without reading them do we need to get before someone has a lightbulb go off? It really seems like this pea**** approach to what we do is what’s driving this organization. Employee concerns? Shut up you’re negative. Opioid overdose? We’ll help you, rehabilitate you, give you a job, anything you want to make us look good. That’s reality unfortunately for most of us. Who is saving us?

[Unregistered]

Frankly I think everyone is done wasting their breath on the direction this agency is headed. It’s time to just take a backseat and allow Dennis to take this place as far down as he can and watch him retreat eventually with his head down in shame. What’s worse is the personnel he has positioned to take over once he’s done. The damage is done, my suggestion is to reassess your careers and ask yourselves “Why am I really here?” Money was really not the main motivator but the fact that at one point in time we were actually surrounded by people that gave a damn. People that strived to be the very best at their jobs and motivate those looking to succeed them. Take a really good look around.....depressing is the only word that comes to mind.

[Unregistered]

Frankly I think everyone is done wasting their breath on the direction this agency is headed. It’s time to just take a backseat and allow Dennis to take this place as far down as he can and watch him retreat eventually with his head down in shame. What’s worse is the personnel he has positioned to take over once he’s done. The damage is done, my suggestion is to reassess your careers and ask yourselves “Why am I really here?” Money was really not the main motivator but the fact that at one point in time we were actually surrounded by people that gave a damn. People that strived to be the very best at their jobs and motivate those looking to succeed them. Take a really good look around.....depressing is the only word that comes to mind.

For many of us, our suggestion is FOR YOU to reassess your career and ask yourself “Why are you still here?" While you encourage others to ask "why am i here" you really need to look in the mirror and do the same.