Corporals Test

Whoare the pre-test favorites?

Anyone that can endure Lt Windbag's hour-long readoffs, followed by the classic two-hour closed door "When I was in CIS" sessions, and then thinks to themself "Man, the time just flew by!" Yup, those would be the front runners.

Anyone that can endure Lt Windbag's hour-long readoffs, followed by the classic two-hour closed door "When I was in CIS" sessions, and then thinks to themself "Man, the time just flew by!" Yup, those would be the front runners.

There are no "front runners" since the cpls were selected once the memos were turned in. The ones to feel sorry for are those who think performing a certain way on DRoach's test and interview will have any influence either way. The cpls in waiting already know who they are and most likely what shift and days off they will have next pay period. Don't think so? Think about why the cpl selection process was significantly revamped prior to this group. No rank order? Just a list of pass/fail names? List never expires? This probably makes it easier for the ROD command staff to pass over people without having to say things like (you are a nice guy(or girl) and know your job well, but: you look like a slob, or you have a big mouth, or ....insert reason here. Those who know the game are already thinking two moves ahead. This comes with tenure and experience in watching these selections for many years. Look around, and you'll see it for yourself.

i cant wait til they start letting the officers who dont have a degree start taking the test and this becomes a real system (matrix) like other agencies. although if they keep the current no scoring pool system, it wont matter who passes, because they will select who they like best on the list, makes sense..not. how may senior officers do we depend on daily for questions, advice, and experience? Does a college education mean you can lead by exemple better than no college degree having ofcs? forget going to a cpl or sgt now because when you do, they remember and hit you on your eval for job knowledge or some other catagory. I have a degree, but i know when i have a situation or need advice, i go to a vet ofc who has the street experience to handle the call right, instead of callling a supervisor, who has little to no experience and says ummm, i've never had a call like this..ummm. 2nd floor pencil pushing might need a degree on the wall, but 1st floor street supervising only needs common sense-street smarts-leadership.

I'm just excited that 4 more people won't be taking calls now......I mean we can afford the manpower. Easy street!

I'm just excited that 4 more people won't be taking calls now......I mean we can afford the manpower. Easy street!

I never understood this about the PPPD....In other agencies, Cpl's, Sgt's, Lt's take calls....

I'm just excited that 4 more people won't be taking calls now......I mean we can afford the manpower. Easy street!

I never understood this about the PPPD....In other agencies, Cpl's, Sgt's, Lt's take calls....

Just the tip of the iceberg. Stop trying to compare PPPD to other agencies or you'll go mad. Kinda like comparing the P Park T-Birds to the Tampa Bay Rays.

Hey guys, we are going to create a new rank called "Lieutenant" so that Sergeants will be freed of administrative duties and they can be out on the street to help.

Okay guys, that didn't go quite as planned, so we are going to add a Captain, and now they can handle administrative duties and complaints; Lieutenants can run the shift and review reports and Sergeants can be out on the street.

Okay guys, that still didn't work out. Now we are creating a new rank called "Corporal", so that while Sergeants are tied up with the administrative duties, complaints and reports that the Lieutenants got out of; these Corporals can be out in the field.

We would like to stress that these will be working supervisors and they will be call takers with some additional responsibilities, hence we will give them 7% more.

Okay guys, the Corporals will no longer be taking primary calls because they need to be x8 to handle supervisory matters. The Corporals will also have to spend a great deal of time at the station reading reports, handling complaints and performing administrative duties that Captains/Lieutenants/Sergeants got out of.

Maybe this is the source of our manpower issues? Maybe not having so much dead weight would mitigate the need to go to 12 hour shifts?

I think its about time, since it sounds like we are considering changes at the pd that we dump this cpl program and go back to MPO. We are using manpower (cpl counts as a unit on schedule) that could be used on the road, instead they do "projects" etc that were tasked to higher ups who have no interest. I hear MPOs worked the road, helped make decisions for junior officers, offered advice and knowledge and could be trusted the run the shift in the event no sgt was available. as it is now sometimes we come to work to have an Lt, 2 sgts, 2 cpls to supervise 5 zone assigned officers?? does anyone else see an issue with that? And none of them miss there scheduled x58 together even if the city is blowing up with calls. I know people mess up at times, but has this over supervision stopped or prevented officers from doing the wrong things? Not with our current track record for discipline lately

Well I took the RED pill and woke to find Shea a CPL! Ahhh somebody put me back in the matrix..., quick!!! Experience at this department means NOTHING! :?

If Admin hadn't stepped in and thrown out several of the poorly written test questions, only two or three candidates would've passed the written test. Several candidates benefited from the thrown out questions. Who is in the charge of developing the test? Lt who? You would think someone with as much free time as he has would be able to write coherent test questions.

Or.... If the people taking the test took it for what it was worth they would have passed. Congrats to the three that did. No excuses from those three or the other 5 that got to go to oral board. Anytime someone doesn't finish, well it must be someone else's fault.

And while experience is important I would rather take the red pill and see Shea embracing challenges to make him a better officer and leader down the road than working for the senior detective that feels that he has been cheated and he should given stuff because of how long he has been here. Maybe if this senior detective looks at himself and realizes that this agency will function just fine when he's gone maybe then will he be better off. He tells us how great he is and how busy he is yet has time to make laps around the building and post on here about how experience

Congratulations to Sheagent Shea!!!!!!!

If Admin hadn't stepped in and thrown out several of the poorly written test questions, only two or three candidates would've passed the written test. Several candidates benefited from the thrown out questions. Who is in the charge of developing the test? Lt who? You would think someone with as much free time as he has would be able to write coherent test questions.

The way I saw it was that no member of the admin showed up at the test other than the 2 LT that were part of the test and two questions were thrown out. Don't give credit to the admin to make failure more palatable for you. Celebrate the ones that did pass and try better next time instead of pushing the ones that did pass down. I didn't see or take the test but I am sick of the people feeling slighted, when in reality the test and the process was fair.

You either blame the admin for everything wrong or say the process was so messed up the admin intervened. Both would be inaccurate. Most things are done with the best interest of the whole agency, not just to cater to one senior disgruntled employee who feels he is entitled, so much so that he makes those around him uncomfortable.

And please stop complaining to everyone who pretends to be listening. You didn't pass, end of discussion. You cheapen the victory of those that did and make yourself look silly. Sorry ME I like you but you starting to act and sound like a giant baby.

I don't know who passed or didn't as it is irrelevent since I never ask Coporals for anything.....I go to Sergeants......but again, I am just very excited to have four workers converted into non-workers. If the "challenge" and betterment means doing things Lt Windbag doesn't want to do, then bully for your career I guess. But maybe the whole thing should go back to Corporals take calls? Or maye stop counting them as manpower?

Overheard wrote "You either blame the admin for everything wrong or say the process was so messed up the admin intervened."

Who made the decision to throw out the questions? You said there were two Lts during the process. Are they not considered Admin? Yes they are. So, like the previous poster wrote "Admin intervened" by throwing out a few poorly worded questions.

Who do you blame for problems at any organization? You got it.....those that make the decisions. Your argument holds no weight on this one.

It's really sad when people are working to make things better but they are rewarded with nothing but crying, whining, and complaining. I have spent a great deal of time with the leadership of other agencies and I can prmise you the promotional process and criteria is exactly the same. No leader of an organization...any organization in the country...is going to promote people who are not rowing in the same direction that leadership wants to go.
You don't support the corporal program? Don't expect to get promoted.
Have a problem with how management spends their time? Don't ask to get promoted.
Don't like the way stats are compiled, vehicles are purchased, etc. etc. etc.? You're on the wrong team and will not ever get promoted.
You get on the same team with the administration or you can burn in hell for all anyone cares.
It is the same way in every other agency so if you have some fantasy of a perfect utopia, you might as well get used to disappointment.

Overheard wrote "You either blame the admin for everything wrong or say the process was so messed up the admin intervened."

Who made the decision to throw out the questions? You said there were two Lts during the process. Are they not considered Admin? Yes they are. So, like the previous poster wrote "Admin intervened" by throwing out a few poorly worded questions.

Who do you blame for problems at any organization? You got it.....those that make the decisions. Your argument holds no weight on this one.

So why are we bashing a particular LT if he was one of the " admin " that intervened? He wrote thE test with the heLp of the other LT. So where was the admin intervention again? Is it possible that he was receptive to opinion and agreed to waive a question for the good of all? You argument is full of fault and as happy as I am to work here I am sad to work with the few who are so full of hate.

i beg to differ, other agencies dont all require college degrees for supervisory advancement. most real departments use a matrix system to rank out their people. why is a 3 yr officer with a degree, no life or other work experience and very limited work experience more qualified to lead than officers with more years of leo experience, military time, real world work experience, specialized position time, etc? im not knocking any of the folks that passed the written process (first 4) congrats to you all, but with all the college credits and degrees that took that test last week and thats the result??? right, throw out some questions and make it look better (8 total), but the end result is 3 passed. sounds like we need to lower the years of time on the job and make it a masters degree to be able to test for next time, maybe we will have more passing with the current mindset. there are many officers who would make good supervisors and this could be solved with a matrix system. rank everyone at the agency based on their time, experience, involvement and let them all test. let the chips fall where they may and the 2nd floor can make a real educated decision who will be the best qualified leader from there.

I like working here and I think everyone is doing a pretty decent job but once again.....just excited that four people will no longer be working. We are getting a few new ones and there is light at the end of the tunnel and then bam....we lose four workers. We went years with one Corporal per shift (2 on Eves) and it was all good.

Let's go easy on the Admin because there are changes coming. It couldn't be done this time because the test was already in motion. I congratulate anyone who gets Corporal (honestly who wants it?), and I will help them as I would help anyone. I appreciate that changes are coming, people spoke and the chief listened from what I understand. So lighten up.

Change should be a welcomed addition at the PD because too many on this department are already retired on their feet. The department has very low morale (evident by this and other threads), high turnover, and excessive sick time usage. Unfortunately, the type of change needed here must start at the top. Filling the future vacant spots with more of the same is not going to help matters much. I like the idea of younger blood coming into the supervision fold because perhaps they can eventually implement the change that is desperately needed here.

In the meantime, focus on your particular job at the PD and do it to the best of your ability. It may go unnoticed by supervisors, but your co-workers will let you know how valuable you are to them and the shift. They may not come out and say it directly to you, but you'll recognize it when they come to you for advice/help with one of their investigations.

Do not worry about getting your degree. You are right,,,it does not make us a better cop or supervisor. But it does stand for things foreign to your understanding such as COMMITMENT & ABILITY TO FINISH WHAT YOU START& DEDICATION. If anyone dare say that you truly demonstrated these things over the years than you have put up a mighty front. Granted,,,it is an expensive piece of paper. But you cannot purchase the attributes mentioned above and the particular ones among us I am thinking about do not truly possess these things in your personalities. Some of you hide in the corner in silence scrambling for scraps of specialized positions and 'thrown bones' just to keep you happy while the rest open your bigmouths and shout unfair rhetoric. The talk is cheap and it stinks and is devoid of real logic. I do not sell my soul to supervisors or care what you think of sergeants and corporals or lieutenants. Because at the end of the day only we lose. Only we have to hump calls in the heat,,,do what they tell us to do,,,,and squeeze the bitter milk of pay every Thursday from the teet of the City.

They make teachers and lawyers and doctors get degrees. Is it so hard for cops to get one??,,can only a caveman do it? ((courtesy of Geico)) Refusing to get a degree knowing that society and our bosses want us to have one is a sign of anarchy and deceit,,,,,,are these good character traits of cops? So yes I got my degree and I do not expect to get promoted because of it. I expect to get promoted on my own hard work and ability to follow promotional test instructions that are given to me. I feel betrayed and look down upon my coworkers who spit on college education which I and so many others worked so hard to obtain. Not only do the bosses expect it of you but so does your zone partner. Please do not continue to be average your whole life,,, it sucks to be last.

Not only do the bosses expect it of you but so does your zone partner. Please do not continue to be average your whole life,,, it sucks to be last.

Gordon, while I generally agree with the point you were trying to make, you couldn't be more wrong with the above statement. Our bosses don't particularly care if you have a degree or not. Don't believe me? Stand by for the upcoming sergeant requirements. Commissioned officers in our military are required to have a four degree for the reasons that you mentioned. Does a degree in biology make you more versed in FSS or tactics? Of course not, but completing a degree program teaches many different things and helps build qualities that a good leader should possess.

I agree that a college degree does not correlate to ones intelligence or leadership abilities but there should be higher standards of those who want to be promoted. I have no sympathy for anyone who has enough time to get promoted but failed to prepare themselves for it. I guess in a time where entitlements have become common those of us who sacrificed to achieve the minimum standards are the real idiots.

KMN,,,,

By bosses I do not necessarily mean the police department bosses. Whether we are police officers or civilians we will always have a boss and a boss above the boss. Believe me and I will be willing to bet my badge that the highest boss we will ever have where ever we work will want us to have a degree. Case in point: go to any top leading agency anywhere in the US. look at the top admin and look at their bios. All have bachelors or in many cases now masters in something or another. Please ask any of them whether they want everyone from the top down to the bottom to have a degree. Tell some Chief or Major or Captain that you deserve to be promoted based on your 'street smarts' or 'common sense'. Lets see how long you have their attention. The bottom line is that no valid case will be made and no remarkable change of heart will ever go backwards in terms of not requiring a degree to advance past basic patrolman. Unless you want to patrol the swamps of Louisiana or cite farmers for not tagging their cattle in Wyoming,,,you will not advance in a modern police department. The next potential CM holds a masters degree. He will be the boss of the next police chief. Highly educated Adminstrators will have a difficult time lowering standards and not requiring degrees that took them thousands of dollars or hours of writing and lost personal time to acheieve. Could that be hypocritical? or even worse a sign that they let lazy officers persuade them enough to drop standards which would show leadership weakness. So please be more clear on what you mean by the bosses do not care if we have a degree or not.

Gordon, I agree with your last post 100% and I hope that your take on our future leadership is correct. When you said bosses, I was mistaken and thought you meant OUR bosses. I agree that bosses (in general) typically would rather have staff/management/supervisors possess a degree.

Lets look over the years at the highly college educated people that have come to work for us and they were no more able to do this job (patrol level) then a trained hampster. I could go over the list of who no longer works here and tell you what their pitfalls were, but Im not here to bash anyone.Someone indicated in an earlier post that getting your education showed commitment, ability to finish what you start, and dedication. These 3 statements could be used for alot of things in life. Remember we have quite a few ofcs that had the luxury of having their folks support them and pay for them to go to school prior to getting employed. Some folks took advantage of the reimbersement program the city had, esp the folks who have offices in the PD. While others were humping calls, those others were getting paid to get higher educations on the clock. I do commend the ofcs, who had paid out of pocket, put their home lives on hold to better themselves with their schooling. I am college educated, but i will not bash others who have not/did not get their schooling. I seem to remember a senior cpl, who recently retired, who did not have a college degree, yet he was highly respected, capable, and trusted ( in all supervisor responsiblities). For Golden, you stress the importance of degrees, yet only 4 of the 13 degreed ofcs were able to pass the written test. Im sure the PD expected with everyone having degrees that all should have passed. Does a degree make you smarter, a better leader, and more respected amongst your peers/admin? Im not convienced.

golden says your zone partner expects you to have college degrees. so when your zoney or back up shows up on the next call, ask them about their education and demand to see their dipolma...HA, give me experience anyday. i don't care if you have a PHD, just help out in the zone, be a good alert backup, and dont run away when the sh%t hits the fan!

I think only military vets should get promoted. Everyone else is a coward.

The current City Manager has no degree.

Gordon, why do you call people lazy? We have very hard working officers with no degree. I am certain you come to some of these officers when you need help. There is absolutely no evidence that college is a benefit at THIS agency. In fact, the opposite has shown to be the case. You have cited only your own biased and scummy opinion here. You clearly have no repsect for your fellow officers by the nature of your statements. Most agencies don't require college and the national accreditation body doesn't require one until much higher up than a field supervisor. I am shocked that anyone I work with could be so arrogant and such a slimy negative person.

One last thing Gordon, your degree certainly has not helped you write. You have the spelling, grammar and articulation of a drunken chimp.

KHH...I apologize for writing at levels above your realm of understanding. It must be difficult for you to understand. I should have wrote it in Crayola and not used college level grammar. Since you didnt go pass senior high it must be hard to keep up so i understand your need for name calling as a defense mechanism. Maybe you will respond better to this::::::::stay in skool. Trie your bestest to go to collage. I needs to stop mingling {that means spending time} trying to help yoo reelize collage is good. can we steel be freinds???? chek yes or no or maybe so.

Gordon, why do you call people lazy? We have very hard working officers with no degree. I am certain you come to some of these officers when you need help. There is absolutely no evidence that college is a benefit at THIS agency. In fact, the opposite has shown to be the case. You have cited only your own biased and scummy opinion here. You clearly have no repsect for your fellow officers by the nature of your statements. Most agencies don't require college and the national accreditation body doesn't require one until much higher up than a field supervisor. I am shocked that anyone I work with could be so arrogant and such a slimy negative person.

Get your ducks in a row before you post. No evidence that college is a BENEFIT? Explain the extra cash incentive for having college degrees. They make getting a degree so easy nowaways. If you put down the call of duty game controller for a minute and go online and get your degree maybe you could stop being left in the corner during promotional processes. If you like going against the grain so much then enjoy harvesting the wheat fields your whole career while the college dummies enjoy their air conditioned offices and decide what to put on your evaluations. Release those strings college naysayer and stop being a puppet.

if it's true, that the current CM doesn't have a college degree or didn't even have one when he was promoted (which I did hear years ago), how can we as a dept or city actually require a degree for a 1st line supervisor in a single branch of this huge city?? Without a degree, is he less qualified to run the city?? Is everything he did null and void since he does not have a piece of paper from college? Who is going to be the one to go to his office and tell him that he is not worthy, committed, and qualified to hold this position? No on, that what I thought! I guess the city and it's council members thought different.

I love TPD...........

I have college and I agree that Gordon's writing was atrocious.

This post proves that many posters on this forum can't spell because they are drunken skunks when they post.

There are only two loosers who cry all the time about not having a degree. One of you is a drunk and the other doesn't live on this planet and plays with dolls. Both of them do NOTHING but bring all the negativity with them each day to work. Go away you two and take the other handful of venomous malcontents with you. I feel for the one shift that is stacked with hate and discontent.

There are only two loosers who cry all the time about not having a degree. One of you is a drunk and the other doesn't live on this planet and plays with dolls. Both of them do NOTHING but bring all the negativity with them each day to work. Go away you two and take the other handful of venomous malcontents with you. I feel for the one shift that is stacked with hate and discontent.

I have know idea who you are talking about. please explain why you feel this way towards your fellow officers.

No one is crying.....no one is a "looser".

You should get your ducks in row. You obviously did no research. If you remember Florida did a study a few years ago of all certified officers in the state. The breakdown was almost exactly 50/50 in terms of officers with a college education and those without. Those without college accounted for over 75% of the discipline! Numerous studies have shown that officers with a college education have less complaints, accidents, etc. While I do agree "street smarts" is important, you can certainly have both. It is when college started being emphasized more in law enforcement as a result of the Presidential commission to study the matter that law enforcement officers would be become recognized as a "profession" with college educated officers. It is for that very reason we saw bumps in pay that started to pay law enforcement decent wages (well most agencies anyways). Those who bash the college idea probably don't have college or will lie on this board and claim they do have college just to bash it. If you don't have a degree, take the time and get one. With credits for the academy and other training, you might be surprised at how close you really are!

http://www.masschiefs.org/hot-topics/96 ... rypdf/file (http://www.masschiefs.org/hot-topics/96-the-impact-of-higher-education-in-law-enforcement-feb-2009-and-summarypdf/file)




Gordon, why do you call people lazy? We have very hard working officers with no degree. I am certain you come to some of these officers when you need help. There is absolutely no evidence that college is a benefit at THIS agency. In fact, the opposite has shown to be the case. You have cited only your own biased and scummy opinion here. You clearly have no repsect for your fellow officers by the nature of your statements. Most agencies don't require college and the national accreditation body doesn't require one until much higher up than a field supervisor. I am shocked that anyone I work with could be so arrogant and such a slimy negative person.

Get your ducks in a row before you post. No evidence that college is a BENEFIT? Explain the extra cash incentive for having college degrees. They make getting a degree so easy nowaways. If you put down the call of duty game controller for a minute and go online and get your degree maybe you could stop being left in the corner during promotional processes. If you like going against the grain so much then enjoy harvesting the wheat fields your whole career while the college dummies enjoy their air conditioned offices and decide what to put on your evaluations. Release those strings college naysayer and stop being a puppet.

Excellent rehash! Timely!

1. Did you read the methodology sourcing for that study? "Sampling data from 1980-90", written by an anti police ACLU MA professor. Maybe, try more recent studies and look at this agency's actual stats.All of the people fired for misconduct here had.

2. 346 is going to be your next supervisor; you can't compare to him in any aspect.....you mad?

3. How did that Sgt's test work out? Maybe if some people spent more time practicing police work and less time working on advanced degrees for a job they already have, they won't have an uneducated ruffian in charge of them.

SORRY CHARLIE!

old guest 12896 must have been sleeping or had somebody else taking his test during the comma section of his writting class. That retard missed enough commas to knock over a rhino. it's great when outsiders try to get involved in an internal pppd discussion. bottom line is college degees are good, but should not be the complete selling point to front line supervision. i most certainly would like my grant writing, stat reviewing, policy making command staff to have their college to get to that point, but absent of that, the results the past 1yr to 2 yrs on our cpl & sgt testings have not convinced me higher education has prevailed. i don't care about any studies from 1970, in bumble shick wherever, just in pppd where it matters to us. tks and good night