FHPA outlook for the future

Looking at the new ID list for 2013 it dawned on me that we now have less than half the number of auxiliary members as when I first started.

Does this organization have a future? Considering that FHP was almost abolished what can we expect.

The FHPA is as lost as the FHP. Just as the St.Pete times quoted, "the lost patrol", its now the lost FHPA.

There was a time when the FHPA had advocates both in its upper staff and in GHQ. Those strong leaders are gone. The current FHPA leadership is not leading nor fighting for the organization. The current FHP leadership is fragmented, weak and ineffective. Look at the numbers of member that have left in the last 3 years or so. There were fine members with a strong sense of pride and service.

The use of reserves or volunteers is growing in every county and city agency that has a program. The trend in the various state programs, DEP, FWC and of course, FHP is declining. Its weak leadership on both sides and very narrow minds.

Its a shame, the FHPA is a very under appreciated asset.

The FHPA is as lost as the FHP. Just as the St.Pete times quoted, "the lost patrol", its now the lost FHPA.

There was a time when the FHPA had advocates both in its upper staff and in GHQ. Those strong leaders are gone. The current FHPA leadership is not leading nor fighting for the organization. The current FHP leadership is fragmented, weak and ineffective. Look at the numbers of member that have left in the last 3 years or so. There were fine members with a strong sense of pride and service.

The use of reserves or volunteers is growing in every county and city agency that has a program. The trend in the various state programs, DEP, FWC and of course, FHP is declining. Its weak leadership on both sides and very narrow minds.

Its a shame, the FHPA is a very under appreciated asset.


Read the new policy that came out? They made it extra clear that we are not sworn LEO's. Say what you want about that,call us wanna-be's, whatever but with the certification we have, County SO's and Municipal Police Departments engage in all sorts of law enforcement actions that we will never do. And now that we're definitely not sworn LEO's (funny, I remember taking an oath, didn't you?) why do we need firearms, handcuffs, ASR, etc? Why do we need to abide by FDLE training standards? .....Last time I checked FDLE only regulated law enforcement training.

Let's face it: The Auxiliary is on the way out; the proof is in the numbers. We're down to less than 300 sworn, the average age in climbing higher and higher. Our recruitment is down; Here's my question to someone wanting to come on the Aux: Why? Why join an organization that does not appreciate you?
As for me, I'm here because of the troopers. Period. Not because this is a great agency (it's not) that appreciates what we do (it doesn't) I'm here because I genuinely love getting in that car and having fun with some of the finest men and women I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. I've met some of the best friends I've ever had by riding in the right-front-seat. Indeed, twice in my time on the Aux I've been told "my husband came home last night because of you" That's why I continue to stay here, but when/if those Troopers move on I'll be right behind them.

The last two posts/comments both make good points.

Clearly the issue is proper utilization or expanded duties of the current members. The department does not wish to do this. There is no legal impediment to expanding the duties. 321 or 943 leave it up to the agency. This agency wants no part of the auxiliary doing more.

Once you are appointed to the FHPA, your training fate is that of the full time troopers. Same everything. Same DT, same FQ, same 40 hour mandatory. By limiting the FHPA members in duties is nothing more than an indictment of their own training programs.

If you just have auxiliary standards, your stuck. If you have full police standards, as upwards of 45+ members have, go elsewhere.

I stayed for the troopers, not the department. Too bad the department doesn't want to improve the working conditions for both.

The second post is text book "Battered Spouse Syndrome" in nature. The mentality "I don't have anything else, so I'll stay.", is the consensus amongst most members. It is gut wrenching to know that mostly everything mentioned in this particular thread has merit. It is even more gut wrenching knowing that there is nothing that can, or will be done.

I came to the conclusion many years ago, that the patrol is a place to come and spend some time amidst the company that best suits our individual personalities. It is a club of sorts, with different interests. We volunteer for the benefit of a collective whole (hopefully). Ultimately, our time spent in the service of this agency can never be repaid. Not with money, medals, plaques; and certainly, not with at a boys! Payment, comes in the form of personal gratification and the knowledge that all is karmic.

The situation at FHP is old news. The only difference is that it has gradually worsened, and is now quickening faster than most can adjust. Bottom line, don't come out and expect. Just come out and do!

Using the word "Sworn" repeatedly as it refers to the members of the FHPA is silly, and dangerous in some ways.

The fact is that many (not all) of the older FHPA members attended academies that consisted of 120-140 hours. Currently full academies are 700 plus hours.

These 'Special FHPA Academies' did not prepare the student for the entire spectrum of LE work. At one point, there were FHPA troopers sitting in classrooms watching videos as a form of training. That's right, watching a video! You don't learn LE work by sitting in a room with a group of other untrained people watching videos. Sorry if this offends you. But a real academy requires the student to actually learn in practical applications. Hands on.

Completion of this 'Special' training did not provide the ability to take the 'State exam' and thus there was never a 'Certification' which also resulted in the inability of the member to be 'Sworn'. FHPA members often confuse 'Policy' from that of 'Statute' and then again with 'FDLE' standards. No matter your actual skill level, absent the full training that a F/T trooper or LEO has completed, you have no idea what your missing.

Nothing - No One - No Policy can change the fact that the FHPA gained its reputation within the volunteer LEO ranks because the training was sub-par. The insanity of having guys with with stripes, bars, oak leafs, and even eagles running around acting like they were 'Real' or 'Certified' did nothing to help the cause.

I once witnessed a FHPA Lt. tell a guy that was fully certified, with years of actual experience, that FHPA did not recognize the training from 'Other Academies' and that this officer would need to start over with FHPA's in-house training. We never saw that officer again at a recruitment meeting. He's been with another agency for 10 years or so now. I see him at DUI checkpoints. Again, a flaw based on the arrogance of one, but a loss for us all. Another person I know was told he was overweight by FHPA standards. This guy was in his mid 30's and 6-04 @ 280lbs. Built like a football player. You'd want him in your car any night. Nope, we told him 'No thanks'. Again, this is in the face of having a bunch of old men that 'Think' they knew what was best.

That is the bad news. The good news is that FHPA, in spite of the training issues, provided the allusion of more troopers on the road. That was a great thing for the F/T Troopers. Many of them actually appreciated the dedication of the FHPA members. We all know the mission; most accept it for what it is. Those with the big egos ruin it for the many dedicated members.

Yes, FHPA is clearly in trouble. The auxiliary trained members have nowhere to go. Most agencies are afraid of the liability associated with the lack of training or certification. The fully trained, full standard 'State Certified' A-men can find homes with local PDs or SOs with little trouble. (as we know DEP is gone, and FWC hasn't taken applications in a long time)

One last thought. Has anyone ever thought about the liability of the LSP? How do we allow non-certified members to patrol in marked cars; yet restrict the ability to actually do the job? You all know what I'm talking about.

Be safe and enjoy the ride into the sunset. This dog and pony show is almost done.

"Not Sworn", That was an amazingly powerful expose of exactly what the FHPA really is. Seldom has anyone been as incisive with these truths. From training to age, it's all dead on. We are a danger to ourselves, the public, and at times a liability to the FT Troopers we ride with.

The rank structure of the FHPA is ridiculous. Members of the FHPA should all fall under the direct supervision of a full time district commander. Currently the blind lead the blind, sometimes with incredible ego.

LSP is an train wreck waiting to happen. Aside from the fully certified members, no one should be allowed to go out on LSP and pretend to be Troopers. FHP loves to create the illusion that there is more man power on the roads, but it's just fluff. It's going to take a critical incident for FHP to re-evaluate the LSP thing (level 3-4).

FHPA paid details is another important point that needs careful revision. How is it that FHPA members that are not sworn and don't have any police powers conduct paid details at venues? How is it that they (FHPA leadership) can charge money for services provided on an hourly rate for each person worked and coerce the membership to participate? Again, this is another dangerous undertaking.

FHP won't spend money, time, or effort to train the FHPA to full standards. Even if they did spend the money. Let's face it, the majority of the older members could not make it through the physical rigours of training. Many amongst us would balk at meeting full certification standards, because "we know too much".

FHP has a host of poor practices that will in time prove themselves as such. There isn't a good outlook for the future as we have failed to plan for today, and learn from past experiences. A director with foresight would suspend the entire operation until further training and development of the armed personnel in the FHPA. Until then, let's continue playing "dress up".

"Not Sworn", That was an amazingly powerful expose of exactly what the FHPA really is. Seldom has anyone been as incisive with these truths. From training to age, it's all dead on. We are a danger to ourselves, the public, and at times a liability to the FT Troopers we ride with.

The rank structure of the FHPA is ridiculous. Members of the FHPA should all fall under the direct supervision of a full time district commander. Currently the blind lead the blind, sometimes with incredible ego.

LSP is an train wreck waiting to happen. Aside from the fully certified members, no one should be allowed to go out on LSP and pretend to be Troopers. FHP loves to create the illusion that there is more man power on the roads, but it's just fluff. It's going to take a critical incident for FHP to re-evaluate the LSP thing (level 3-4).

FHPA paid details is another important point that needs careful revision. How is it that FHPA members that are not sworn and don't have any police powers conduct paid details at venues? How is it that they (FHPA leadership) can charge money for services provided on an hourly rate for each person worked and coerce the membership to participate? Again, this is another dangerous undertaking.

FHP won't spend money, time, or effort to train the FHPA to full standards. Even if they did spend the money. Let's face it, the majority of the older members could not make it through the physical rigours of training. Many amongst us would balk at meeting full certification standards, because "we know too much".

FHP has a host of poor practices that will in time prove themselves as such. There isn't a good outlook for the future as we have failed to plan for today, and learn from past experiences. A director with foresight would suspend the entire operation until further training and development of the armed personnel in the FHPA. Until then, let's continue playing "dress up".

Originally, I was going to respond to "Not Sworn" as I believe he has some well-reasoned points about the Aux, although some of the information he mentions is outdated/not current. However, the above post also brings out some points that also deserve a response.

First, and absolutely foremost, if you, for one second believe you're a danger to anyone, then you should separate yourself from the organization and report your concerns to the Inspector General. Think about this logically--If you honestly believe what you wrote, why would you put "the public" in danger and be "a liability to the FT troopers"? What a selfish, reckless, and pitiful thing to do (put others in danger) Again, this is only if you honestly believe what you wrote.
Next, the issue of details. You write: "How is it that FHPA members that are not sworn and don't have any police powers conduct paid details at venues? How is it that they (FHPA leadership) can charge money for services provided on an hourly rate for each person worked and coerce the membership to participate? Again, this is another dangerous undertaking. " As you know, FHPA Troopers explicitly have "police powers" when acting under the supervision of a full-time Trooper, and every detail I've ever been on has had full-time Troopers on site. If venues can hire a bunch of yellow-shirted "event staff" for security, crowd control, traffic, etc. then they can hire the Auxiliary for similar functions---not a real big mystery.
Next, this statement: "FHP won't spend money, time, or effort to train the FHPA to full standards." As far as I know, but maybe I'm wrong, there is currently no Auxiliary-to-full standards "crossover" type academy certified by FDLE (as there is for corrections-to-law enforcement and law enforcement-to-corrections) which would mean every Auxiliary Trooper would have to go through an entire BRC. I would, however, agree with you that possibly the Auxiliary should accept only fully-certified applicants in future. This situation, however, neglects to consider the fact that many agencies, some with just as many or more officers than FHP, have robust "reserve" programs where auxiliary-certified members undertake all sorts of L.E. actions. I find it hard to believe that if it was some incredible scandal or liability to do so, that these agencies would engage in such conduct.
Also, once an Auxiliary Trooper comes "on board" there is no differentiation in training. None. I've never been to a training class and had the instructor say "The minimum score for Full-time Troopers is X and for Auxiliary is Y" The Glock Transition School, where we lost a great number of members, is evidence of the training not being lessened in intensity or rigor for the Auxiliary.

Regardless of what the "Major" thinks and rebuttals with, the FHPA program is a stale joke in it's present state. I've had many FT Troopers tell me directly that they don't ride A-Men because they don't trust FHPA training and standards. These individuals can't be outed to please the Majors ego. He's irate because his recruitment efforts are being hurt by some of the opinions being posted. If you go to meetings with a walker, you're a liability. If you can't be stressed out at the stress shoot, you're a liability. If you feel that your volunteer position should strictly be clerical, you're a liability. If you need to be treated gingerly during DT, because your Coumadin makes you bruise easily, you're a liability. If you are on an ego trip because you are wearing FHPA rank, you're a liability... I bet you've never been involved in armed/unarmed combat in your entire life (with the exception of that 1st grade fight) Major. You got pissed at what "Pseudo Trooper" and "Not Sworn" had to say. That's too bad, the First amendment to the U.S. Constitution still stands. Everyone has had their experiences with FHPA, and perhaps they're not all as glorious as yours. Rose colored glasses come with the fake rank, I guess.

In the biker world the FHPA would be the equivalent/referred to as Hangers-On. Fully patched members never really trust you, they just tolerate you and use you to hell. At FHP it's exactly the same. The FT Troopers never really trust you, but since you jumped through the smaller hoops, they'll use you to take out the garbage and handle things that no certification qualifies you to handle.

RESPONSE1 ---------- You state: Also, once an Auxiliary Trooper comes "on board" there is no differentiation in training. None.


That is exactly the issue. It is not the training once you are a member, it is the training PRIOR to being a member. Your head is in the sand if you think that a guy with 140 hr auxiliary academy 10, 15 or even 25 years ago is the same as a fully certified Trooper. There is zero logic in trying to make the point. Further, need we discuss FTO? Or how about supervision?

Last point, anyone that wants to know the truth about training as it pertains to a specific member need only Google it. Simply google the members name with the word 'Officer' in front of it. The Herald newspaper has a great data base. It will show you complaints, certification dates, and if it was an auxiliary or full academy.

Peace

This is a very good discussion but please keep it to the facts and or merits of your position. No need to denigrate each other. Opinions are just that, opinions.

http://myfloridalegal.com/__85256236006 ... ,auxiliary (http://myfloridalegal.com/__85256236006EB5E1.nsf/0/CC20EA827B7E2C4185256242005DB7D7?Open&Highlight=0,auxiliary)

Instead of opinions...and we all know what opinions are like. Let's us look at the ruling from the State Attorney’s office. In this ruling auxiliary members are CLEARLY shown to be "certified". Additionally, this is the legal opinion that allowed LSP to go forward.

Bring on the discussion.

You aren't sworn or certified.

A State Attorney, nor an Attorney General's opinion can change that.

for those that have not completed a 'Full' academy-----If you didn't take the state exam, you can't be certified. Thus, your only ability is of that of an Auxiliary. For those with full standards, different story.

All new auxiliary members must meet the FDLE requirements for auxiliary officers plus the additional requirements of the FHP, such as Vehicle Ops. This amounts to 320 hours of training which include all of the high-liability classes. The difference between the full academy and the auxiliary academy is the amount of classroom work. The auxiliary only receives abbreviated versions of the classes that are not high-liability. Also, the application and screening process has changed over the years. Auxiliary members now undergo the same screening process as full-time members. The point is that because of the changes over the years, units are likely to have members who range from those who watched videos to those who completed full, hands-on training. All of the auxiliary can't be painted with the same brush. Some of those who watched the videos have quite a bit of experience under their belts, others have just been along for the ride.
The bottom line is that the auxiliary is an under-appreciated organization and the continuous drop in the annual radio numbers is very disturbing. But, as a previous post mentioned, I also do it for the troopers. I haven't had a situation where I know that I made the difference between someone going home and not but I do know that I make a trooper's shift easier and more productive. That is the payoff for me.

"A State Attorney, nor an Attorney General's opinion can change that."

Are you serious or just a troll? FYI, their legal opinions are followed in this state.

I get the point you are attempting to make. I do. I am not a troll, just a guy with an opinion. One founded in experience, research, and law. Go read the actual cases involving A-men or the like.

The reality is that if an A-man goes x15 without a f/t trooper present, as in RIGHT THERE, it will NEVER hold up in court. Mr. Butterworth was not well informed when he wrote that opinion --- and how many years ago was that??? EXACTLY. (he's been gone for 13 years)

Auxiliary trained (oxi-moron) troopers are not going to be doing that anyway. The LSP leash is short, thankfully.

The FHPA does a job. Has or had a purpose. My point is that the A-men that want to do real LEO work are in the wrong place. FHPA has not kept up with the times.

Real Police work? The FHP/FHPA has now officially endorsed level 4. This level allows authorized A-men to respond to, investigate traffic crashes, and issue a UTC. Of course, this is nothing new since there have been A-men doing this for quite some time already.

My original question is what is in our future? Is there one? Should we start immediately looking for other options?

Auxiliary trained (oxi-moron) troopers...

Your opinion founded on experience, research and law could use a bit more research. Check the current CJSTC requirements for auxiliary officers. Those don't just apply to the FHPA, they are statewide standards. Granted, those trained under these newer standards are in the minority but any new people will have to meet those standards. As for the law, state statutes give auxiliary officers quite a bit of leeway. Most of the restrictions come from agency policy rather than the law.
I think the FHPA is a tremendous asset to the state in general and the patrol in particular. It is also a resource that is under appreciated and under utilized. I think the problems in the auxiliary and the FHP both stem from leadership. This is not just a problem with the patrol but with all state agencies. There is a siege mentality where is is more important to protect your job than to actually do your job. No one is willing to step out with a bold move. CYA is the primary rule to live by. It didn't get this way overnight and it won't change overnight. Leaders who can't afford to make any mistake are going to be very cautious. If you can't make any mistakes, then you can't learn from them.

Auxiliary trained (oxi-moron) troopers...

Your opinion founded on experience, research and law could use a bit more research. Check the current CJSTC requirements for auxiliary officers. Those don't just apply to the FHPA, they are statewide standards. Granted, those trained under these newer standards are in the minority but any new people will have to meet those standards. As for the law, state statutes give auxiliary officers quite a bit of leeway. Most of the restrictions come from agency policy rather than the law.
I think the FHPA is a tremendous asset to the state in general and the patrol in particular. It is also a resource that is under appreciated and under utilized. I think the problems in the auxiliary and the FHP both stem from leadership. This is not just a problem with the patrol but with all state agencies. There is a siege mentality where is is more important to protect your job than to actually do your job. No one is willing to step out with a bold move. CYA is the primary rule to live by. It didn't get this way overnight and it won't change overnight. Leaders who can't afford to make any mistake are going to be very cautious. If you can't make any mistakes, then you can't learn from them.

Well said.

The fact remains that even with the "New and Improved" requirements, the A-men still only attend 45-50% of the hours of a real full-time academy. They also lack a certification exam and a real or meaningful FTO program. (riding in the right seat is not the same as being in a formal FTO program)

The CJSTC standards for the auxiliary training are, and have always been watered down in an effort to allow people to get through it with minimal effort. All this so they'll be able to volunteer. It is all very noble. It serves a purpose. I'm confident that the A-men have on many occasions, by merely being present, have deterred some bad-guy from hurting someone. Again that is the mission, is it not? Serve, protect, hug the trees, and kiss the babies? Change a flat tire occasionally. Get a half off grand-slam at Denny's every once in a while. 8)

So, how can we compare a trooper who goes to an academy for 750 hours, then takes a state exam that he must pass, then follows it up with an FTO program of another 400-500 actual, hands on hours; to that of an A-men? YOU CAN'T. Not if you are honest with yourself. The most dangerous part about this job is often the person you work with. We should all hope and pray that we each can recognize our limitations. That is to say, to "Know what we don't know". Again, this is often clouded when you have a person with some "Honorary" rank affixed to the uniform. After all, how can a chief or captain or Lt be wrong? :snicker: When is the last time you saw one of the "Experienced" A-men expose their gun side to a bad guy? More importantly, did anyone correct the action? :?

It would make more sense if we were talking about fully certified guys that retired or something along those lines. However, in the case of FHPA, many of the auxiliary members are essentially experiencing LEO work for the 1st time in their lives.

There is no acceptable excuse for substandard training. There is no substitute for real experience. Repetitions and practice matter. So, no way that a guy with less training, experience or lack of daily reps is equal to a real trooper. Add to that the fact that many of the members are aged. The mind and body are not as nimble. Often the mind writes checks that the body can't cash. Just a fact of getting older. We all hope to be there. Getting old beats the hell out of the alternative.

So how many people would want to have a doctor that only completed 50% of medical school operating them? (say your prayers)
How about having a lawyer that never had to sit for the bar exam defending you in a capital case? (careful picking up that soap)
How about having a teacher that never attended the last two years of college. Never had to take or pass the requirements to become a real teacher, teaching your kids?
What about an accountant representing you in front of the IRS, who never too the test to become a CPA?

I feel that all current A-men should have to take some type of state exam. It could add credibility to the people, the program and the patrol. Instead, the "Management" would rather hide behind words like "Sworn" and "Certified" when in actuality, we know the real deal.

Again, if we put all the egos aside, the role of a volunteer LEO is great. It is however one that must be tempered, trained and dare I say tested for competency? :roll:

All of my comments are intended to open minds. To make you think. Don't take it as an attack. I too wear a badge and carry a gun. So, yes, I've been there and done that.

Stay safe brothers and sisters. :cop:

[Floridacoastal]

I was just getting ready to apply as an FHPA
Looks like it may be a waste of time.

I was just getting ready to apply as an FHPA
Looks like it may be a waste of time.

I wouldn't recommend it.

I had also given serious consideration to FHPA over the past year, but this site has changed my mind.

Making up your mind about the FHPA based on what you read on Leo Affairs is like looking for a date by calling the phone numbers written on bathroom walls. If you really want to find out what the FHPA is about, step away from the keyboard. Attend a meeting. Talk to regular and auxiliary troopers. Find out for yourself.

Making up your mind about the FHPA based on what you read on Leo Affairs is like looking for a date by calling the phone numbers written on bathroom walls. If you really want to find out what the FHPA is about, step away from the keyboard. Attend a meeting. Talk to regular and auxiliary troopers. Find out for yourself.

I disagree. If you go to a meeting, you're going to get the opposite of the LeoAffairs i.e. you'll hear all of the positives without any of the negatives. I don't think that using this site as one of the tools to help guide your decision is a foolhardy proposition. Going through all of the FHPA posts, I haven't found one that is completely false.

I appreciate both responses.

Well finally someone spoke out about the college football / florida highway patrol weekly party. This agency complains about being under staffed, and there are more troopers at the football games than working an afternoon shift. The appearance of the Troopers, Reserve Trooper, Aux. Troopers on national TV are a total embarrassment to this agency PERIOD.

Look at the other college schools, the security they bring with their teams are squared-away sharp looking uniform personnel. The Florida Highway Patrol's are over-weight, fat, dis-organized, sweating like a stuff pig, walking heart attacks sticking their faces in front of the camera at any given chance. The only reason why they are there, is to act like a big shot, and walk around like they are something special!

Outlook? Not good since they cant return a freaking phone call or email of a former cop looking to join.

Outlook? Not good since they cant return a freaking phone call or email of a former cop looking to join.

My advice is to look elsewhere. This is not the place to come right now. Another agency's reserve program or a smaller agency part-time might be the way to go. If you're retired you might want to look to an agency like a University or School Board, or maybe an Airport police department. The FHPA just isn't an agency I would recommend to someone.....at this time.

Outlook? Not good since they cant return a freaking phone call or email of a former cop looking to join.

My advice is to look elsewhere. This is not the place to come right now. Another agency's reserve program or a smaller agency part-time might be the way to go. If you're retired you might want to look to an agency like a University or School Board, or maybe an Airport police department. The FHPA just isn't an agency I would recommend to someone.....at this time.

It's been since September since this last post... What's the outlook now? Better? Worse? Still par for the course?

[Unregistered]

Interesting comments and observations here. Some true, some not, some ....well.
Its said you need to walk a mile in the others shoes....
As a 12+ year FHPA officer yes its my time to exit.
Not because of anything anyone did or does as I truly enjoy the career Troopers but more of whats not done.
Theres no follow up, theres a lot of promises that never materialize and then theres the spectre of personal assets.....Im now more convinced than ever that if the SHTF I wouldn't be protected by the FHP.... and could lose everything.
RE the inexperience comments, as a combat veteran and having a career in the security business I know a whole lot more than do any career trooper with "full certs" as some have pointed out is needed to be a "real LEO".....Im the one correcting the trooper about how to deal with people, how to blade their body, what to look for in the interviews and so on and so forth. Im the one waving traffic clear when the trooper is chatting with the lady in the speeding car and Im the one changing the tires on a "customer" vehicle.
Its a shame we aren't viewed as anything as we seem to have a whole lot more to offer than is ever used.