moral question

If a certain steb sgt pulls over a deputy on his way to work in full uniform, and issues him or her a verbal warning, is it ok if he shows up at his place of employment and say, ya know, come to think of it, I'm gonna give u the 280 dollar ticket. Would this be done to john q public?

When I am Sheriff I will give you all tickets, you just wait and see, you all think it's funny riding by and blowing your horns and yelling obsenities? Just wait, when I am your boss you will all regret the day you screwed wth Vinny. On the day after the election my screen name will be "Collier 1" so stay tuned little ones, stay tuned.

[Curios George]

HMMMMM.... Your question is VERY vague and should be better clarified if you want an honest opinion of whether certain actions were morally or ethically correct.

1. You say a deputy was pulled over on their way to work and was in full uniform. Does that mean they are a law enforcement deputy and was driving a marked police car or was this deputy driving their own POV because they are a corrections deputy or civilian deputy? Each classification of deputy could have a different response to your question.

2. You say the SGT showed up to this deputy place of employment... wouldn't they both be employed by the same employer??? Do you mean the SGT showed up at his assigned place of duty??

3. Are you asking if a law enforcement officer can issue a ticket after a verbal warning has been issued? If that is your question then the answer is YES it can be done; I have done that myself!! Here is an example of why I changed my mind: the violator pulled off after receiving a warning and decided to show their ass by spinning their tires and speeding down the road, hence, a warning no longer sufficed and a ticket was what they now earned. Another reason is that I learned additional information after the traffic stop that warranted a ticket being issued and not the warning.

$. Both above examples did involve John Q Public so YES is the answer to your last question.

Regardless to your answer to question #1, it is my opinion that the STEB SGT acted morally and had a valid reason for exercising his right of discretion. Maybe the bigger question should be redirected back to the deputy that received the ticket and he should ask himself what he could have done to avoid the traffic stop in the first place... Accountability has a strong place in moral and ethical behavior.

Oh no!! Not another Traffic Unit thread. Don't they think they are better than us "district units" anyway? There's your answer Mr Original Poster.

Curious George will be placed high in my administration. He will be getting the recoignition he deserves.

It was a lowly corrections deputy and it was the jail he showed up to. Is it allowed to wear your uniform when fighting this ticket in court?

Curious george- yes the officer has discretion as always. And yes, when you speed you get what you get, whether that is a friendly 'kilo' or a ticket. The driver began the chain of events by speeding.
I for one have never written another cop a ticket (local or out of state) and probably never will, unless there is a huge attitude issue or someone else has been impacted (crash, etc).
The non-vague question is why did the Sgt close out the traffic stop, thus ending the case/allegation of speeding..... then re-open another case, thus putting the driver in the very defensible situation of 'Double Jeopardy'?
Take it to court driver.
DO NOT WEAR YOUR UNIFORM TO COURT....DO NOT.
Good luck.
Retire already george.

I heard the steb sgt. was afraid to write the ticket at the stop because his radio wasn't working very well at that spot. Oops they don't work very well anywhere.

i wrote you that ticket boy now stop complaining. when you are doing 90 in a 45 damn right your gettin written up. it aint a big deal. yull get over it in a few months just like my mother did.

:snicker:

I forgive you my brother, would you like to buy some coffee?

I’ve had my share of frustrations with STEB but I have to take their side in this matter. For starters, shame on the CO for putting them both in this situation. I’m not going to get into the details but you should know ALL the facts before you spew your ignorant comments on this site. Save yourself and your agency the embarrassment and pay your ticket. Now is the time to be humble, not a pompous ass. Here’s some more free legal advice that will help you in the future, SLOW THE F DOWN!!!

Everyone has a right to defend himself in court.
The question was should he go in uniform (NO) and was the ticketing officer correct in punishing the alleged speeder twice for one infraction (NO). First punishment was the warning issued on scene. Second punishment was re-opening the traffic stop and issuing a citation. Everything else you allude to is irrelevant to the case.
For the rcord, I'm not a big name defense lawyer before you start bashing on the wrong person. :oops:

Everyone has a right to defend himself in court.
The question was should he go in uniform (NO) and was the ticketing officer correct in punishing the alleged speeder twice for one infraction (NO). First punishment was the warning issued on scene. Second punishment was re-opening the traffic stop and issuing a citation. Everything else you allude to is irrelevant to the case.
For the rcord, I'm not a big name defense lawyer before you start bashing on the wrong person. :oops:

A written or verbal warning is not punishment!!!

That's why it is a warning....

But not knowing this makes it easy to understanding why you would ask if you can go to court to fight the ticket in uniform...

i would go into to court to fight this ticket not wearing any pants.

Everyone has a right to defend himself in court.
The question was should he go in uniform (NO) and was the ticketing officer correct in punishing the alleged speeder twice for one infraction (NO). First punishment was the warning issued on scene. Second punishment was re-opening the traffic stop and issuing a citation. Everything else you allude to is irrelevant to the case.
For the rcord, I'm not a big name defense lawyer before you start bashing on the wrong person. :oops:

I reiterate: Do you know all the FACTS to this particular incident? (NO) Talk to either party and you will see why it was handled in this manner. Do I need to say more on a public website or can a reasonability prudent person such as yourself figure the rest out? Don’t be like the NDN, do some research before you get up on your soap box.

Ya but, if you were really moral you would not even be posting on this web site. :cop:

We're hearing that there's an unmarked super car going to a traffic guy. Better watch out. He might get ya. If he can see over the dash.

We're hearing that there's an unmarked super car going to a traffic guy. Better watch out. He might get ya. If he can see over the dash.

I bet it will have bumper stickers on the back to confuse the public. Right CG.

All I know is, whoever drives the little blue sports car and might work downtown needs more than one ticket. Speeding down airport, running stop signs in the parking lot. Typical corrections attitude.

"Typical correctional officer"...you are a flipping idiot! I've served in both areas (and ot in commo)...how dare you say that...get a freaking jacka**...the badge says the CollierCounty Sheriff's Office! I wish I knew who you were because I would try pull a few favors and have you reassigned to Corrections for 6 months to see how you do you ignorant SOB!

[mr dad]

THE FORGOTTEN COP
What would the average citizen say if it were proposed that Police Officers be assigned to a neighborhood which was inhabited by no one but criminals and those Officers would be unarmed, patrol on foot and be heavily out numbered?

I wager that the overwhelming public response would be that the Officers would have to be crazy to accept such an assignment. However as you read this, such a scenario is being played out in all areas of the country.

~ ~ ~
We are Correctional Officers, not Guards (who are people that watch school crossings).
We work at minimum, medium, and maximum security Correctional Facilities.

We are empowered by the State to enforce its Penal Laws, Rules, and Regulations of the Department of Correctional Services.

In short we are Policemen.

Our beat is totally inhabited by convicted felons who, by definition, are people who tend to break laws, rules, and regulations.

We are out numbered by as many as 50 to 1 at various times of our workday and contrary to popular belief, we work without a side arm.

In short, our necks are on the line every minute of every day.

A Correctional Facility is a very misunderstood environment.

The average person has very little knowledge of its workings.

Society sends it's criminals to Correctional Facilities and as time passes, each criminals crime fades from our memory until the collective prison population becomes hordes of bad people being warehoused away from decent society in a place where they can cause no further harm.

There is also the notion that prison inmates cease to be a problem when the are incarcerated.

Correctional Facilities are full of violence perpetrated by the prison population against the prison population and facility staff.

Felonies are committed daily but are rarely reported.

They are called "unusual incidents" and rarely result in criminal prosecution.

Discipline is handled internally and, as a rule, the public is rarely informed of these crimes.

In the course of maintaining order in these facilities, many Officers have endured the humiliation of having urine and feces thrown at them.

Uncounted Correctional Officers have been kicked, bitten, stabbed and slashed with home made weapons, taken hostage, murdered and even raped in the line of duty, all while being legally
mandated to maintain their Professional Composure and refraining from any retaliation which could be the basis for dismissal from service.

In addition to these obvious dangers, Correctional Officers face hidden dangers in the form of AIDS, Tuberculosis, Hepatitis B and C.

Courts are now imposing longer sentences and the prison population is increasing far beyond the systems designated capacity.

As the public demands more police on the street, governments everywhere are cutting police in prison where violence reins supreme, jeopardizing all those working behind prison walls.

Although you will never see us on "911" or "Top Cops" we are Law Enforcement Professionals.

We are the "FORGOTTEN COP," hidden from public view, doing a dangerous beat, hoping someday to receive the respect and approval from the public who "WE SILENTLY SERVE."

Author Unknown.

~ ~ ~

"Typical correctional officer"...you are a flipping idiot! I've served in both areas (and ot in commo)...how dare you say that...get a freaking jacka**...the badge says the CollierCounty Sheriff's Office! I wish I knew who you were because I would try pull a few favors and have you reassigned to Corrections for 6 months to see how you do you ignorant SOB!

Report writing wasn't your strongest asset was it? Thank you for proving my point... just complain about the correction comment nothing about the jail deputy breaking the law on his way to work.

The jail is a great place to work. We have changed much for the better since we got our Capt. B. R. in place. She could do a lot more if she could get some Lts reassigned and some Sgts promoted. I suppose it will all come in time. I dont have much comment about the whole ticket thing but we don't need any conflicts, we have enough of that already. I guess it is a shame though cause we only have each other so try to support each other and we will make progress toward love and peace.

[jackalope]

Yes it would be done to john q. The cop should of done it the first time. I seriously can't believe that you guys here are LEOs. You sound like high school girls. 90% of you are so far off OPs question no wonder you can't make up your mind or know what's morally right or wrong. One poster had it right, posting on this site is immoral. Specially LEOs. For petes sake its true cops are a bunch of undecided fools that have no self esteem. That's why you became cops.

Yes it would be done to john q. The cop should of done it the first time. I seriously can't believe that you guys here are LEOs. You sound like high school girls. 90% of you are so far off OPs question no wonder you can't make up your mind or know what's morally right or wrong. One poster had it right, posting on this site is immoral. Specially LEOs. For petes sake its true cops are a bunch of undecided fools that have no self esteem. That's why you became cops.

and you are a gay homosexual queen... :snicker:

MB wore his uniform to court when he fought a ticket from FWC for illegally parking at the boat ramp.-Of course, MH represented him for free...but based on the "Jersey Shore" ethics of that peer group it's no surprise..and he won the case!

250 for President :devil:

Speaking of Corrections, how many deputies is Sgt. AS going to be able to have relations with before he is stopped?? Things have not changed since CF left, just different names. :devil: :devil: :devil: :evil:

Yes it would be done to john q. The cop should of done it the first time. I seriously can't believe that you guys here are LEOs. You sound like high school girls. 90% of you are so far off OPs question no wonder you can't make up your mind or know what's morally right or wrong. One poster had it right, posting on this site is immoral. Specially LEOs. For petes sake its true cops are a bunch of undecided fools that have no self esteem. That's why you became cops.

Nope... to run code and badge bunnies :-)

this may not be a moral question but why is it that anytime CID checks out with a s/4 they have to request a patrol deputy to come work it? do they not carry pens or short forms in there cars anymore? is it beneath them to have to do a patrol function activity? there is really no excuse for it. i asked one once and the reply I got was the shrugged shoulders and the i dun no look on his face. anyway business as usual i guess.

:cop:

My favorite is tango units conducting traffic stops a short distance from where a sig 4 was dispatched. Go team.

Anyone who works CID or for that matter any other specialized unit has come before you through the road. They also heard the call for 'a district unit' to come work a 4 many many times. To make your job easier, all these specialty units do things like investigations, follow up, interviews, tracking people down, tracking property down, etc. Without these specialty units, all these tasks would fall on road patrol, like in small town police departments.
So really, going from call to call taking down info and submitting it then forgetting it, is road patrol's job and not a very hard one for that matter. Most 'other' units are happy to help briefly, but have things to do and appointments to keep and sometimes very large caseloads.
So, there is a possible answer for you, which you may not like or fully understand, but it is the most probable answer.

Anyone who works CID or for that matter any other specialized unit has come before you through the road. They also heard the call for 'a district unit' to come work a 4 many many times. To make your job easier, all these specialty units do things like investigations, follow up, interviews, tracking people down, tracking property down, etc. Without these specialty units, all these tasks would fall on road patrol, like in small town police departments.
So really, going from call to call taking down info and submitting it then forgetting it, is road patrol's job and not a very hard one for that matter. Most 'other' units are happy to help briefly, but have things to do and appointments to keep and sometimes very large caseloads.
So, there is a possible answer for you, which you may not like or fully understand, but it is the most probable answer.

Nice try. Most CID deputies have only a few years of patrol experience if that so dont give me that load of "Anyone who works CID or for that matter any other specialized unit has come before you through the road." Most of the ones I see out there came into patrol way after me and got out very quickly. So the excuse you are making that they are over burdened is a lousy one. I have reports to write and calls to get to also. You roll up on a signal 4 and it's a simple one meaning no tows involved or transports you should be able to handle it. If I was a detective I would be to embarrassed to ask for another certified law enforcement officer to come take this demeaning crash off of my hands. Your an investigator, investigate the crash and move on...

:cop:

Anyone who works CID or for that matter any other specialized unit has come before you through the road. They also heard the call for 'a district unit' to come work a 4 many many times. To make your job easier, all these specialty units do things like investigations, follow up, interviews, tracking people down, tracking property down, etc. Without these specialty units, all these tasks would fall on road patrol, like in small town police departments.
So really, going from call to call taking down info and submitting it then forgetting it, is road patrol's job and not a very hard one for that matter. Most 'other' units are happy to help briefly, but have things to do and appointments to keep and sometimes very large caseloads.
So, there is a possible answer for you, which you may not like or fully understand, but it is the most probable answer.

Nice try. Most CID deputies have only a few years of patrol experience if that so dont give me that load of "Anyone who works CID or for that matter any other specialized unit has come before you through the road." Most of the ones I see out there came into patrol way after me and got out very quickly. So the excuse you are making that they are over burdened is a lousy one. I have reports to write and calls to get to also. You roll up on a signal 4 and it's a simple one meaning no tows involved or transports you should be able to handle it. If I was a detective I would be to embarrassed to ask for another certified law enforcement officer to come take this demeaning crash off of my hands. Your an investigator, investigate the crash and move on...

:cop:



Please tell that to the guys that call FHP for "minor neck and back pain" or, entrapment yeah they didn't know how to unlock the door without power locks.

[Night Shift]

Ok, moral question...why did this go off onto cid not taking a 4 report....Personally dont blame them, see the pain in the ass they have become..... A real moral question, how can we have a Chief, Lt. in charge of IA , Capt. etc involved in a canoe gate when we have gone down that road before...the original violators received punishment for their actions and rightly so...now it is time for the above to receive theirs. Leadership is by example, not shoulder thumping and saying we are held to a higher standard because we are Law Enforcement Officers......now we have a Chief involved in a love triangle on Marco....give me a F#$%(%g break......I dont mind being held to a higher standard, done a good job of not screwing up, but when my leaders are acting like children how can I be held to a higher standard. Its getting harder to supervise and maintain this higher standard attitude to younger Officers when this is happening...I guess I didnt get enough coffee...

umm.....****TRACY

First off why don't you do YOUR JOB. It is YOUR JOB to respond to the sig 4 crash and do the report. ****TRACY do you do prosecution reports, follow up investigations, interview victims, fix paperwork errors from patrol deputies?

Oh please with your we are so busy on the road with reports and crap. You get 1 maybe 2 reports a week and your crying....please spare me. If you don't want to do YOUR JOB then leave...........

umm.....****TRACY

First off why don't you do YOUR JOB. It is YOUR JOB to respond to the sig 4 crash and do the report. ****TRACY do you do prosecution reports, follow up investigations, interview victims, fix paperwork errors from patrol deputies?

Oh please with your we are so busy on the road with reports and crap. You get 1 maybe 2 reports a week and your crying....please spare me. If you don't want to do YOUR JOB then leave...........

1 or 2 reports a week? Maybe in D-7 on days but that's more like in a month there. In D-1, D-2 and D-3 it's 1 or 2 in the first couple hours of the shift. Relax, we all have a job to do and most actually do that job. It all comes out in the wash anyway so stop complaining everybody. By the way, watch out for the black truck with the "machine gun" in it. No one is safe!

umm.....****TRACY

First off why don't you do YOUR JOB. It is YOUR JOB to respond to the sig 4 crash and do the report. ****TRACY do you do prosecution reports, follow up investigations, interview victims, fix paperwork errors from patrol deputies?

Oh please with your we are so busy on the road with reports and crap. You get 1 maybe 2 reports a week and your crying....please spare me. If you don't want to do YOUR JOB then leave...........

Nice try. I can spin it back just as easy especially since you are not a slave to the radio. All those supps you have to cut for those suspended cases you got can wait another day or two. You are a cetified cop are you not? Where does it say in policy that you are excempt from working crashes? Or is that just the mentality? Oh I know maybe your just not smart enough to keep up with the new tracs system. You do your job. YOU ROLL UP ON A 4 WORK IT!!!

:cop:

umm.....****TRACY

First off why don't you do YOUR JOB. It is YOUR JOB to respond to the sig 4 crash and do the report. ****TRACY do you do prosecution reports, follow up investigations, interview victims, fix paperwork errors from patrol deputies?

Oh please with your we are so busy on the road with reports and crap. You get 1 maybe 2 reports a week and your crying....please spare me. If you don't want to do YOUR JOB then leave...........

Nice try. I can spin it back just as easy especially since you are not a slave to the radio. All those supps you have to cut for those suspended cases you got can wait another day or two. You are a cetified cop are you not? Where does it say in policy that you are excempt from working crashes? Or is that just the mentality? Oh I know maybe your just not smart enough to keep up with the new tracs system. You do your job. YOU ROLL UP ON A 4 WORK IT!!!

:cop:

Maybe the Detectives are busy getting called out for a 21R with no suspects, 21V - no suspects, a 33P, a 22D, etc....etc .....etc....... While the rest of the shift is 41ing around the District. Is it so hard to talk to people and get statements? Just remember, for every report you write, someone has to do follow-up and track down every possible lead. Some leads are good, some do not go anywhere, but there still are hours of follow-up for every case.
When did it become Patrol against CID? It surely hasn't always been that way and there surely wasn't 6,7,8,9 Patrol Units, plus 3 CSD's who could take 4's, 10's and whatever else they have to do, plus 3-5 COPS out there, foxtrot Units and whoever else might be out there.
Quit bickering amongst each other and just do the job the best that you can and work together. We're all on the same team, but some just cant seem to grasp that idea.