Screaming of Inexperience!!!

Ok, this is just unacceptibly stupid! A couple of nights ago, we had a complaint that several subjects were driving around, shooting. The vehicle was located, a pursuit was engaged...a long, involved pursuit involving the Air unit, and other agencies. In the end, the suspects attempted to ram a deputy, and he fired shots in self defense, wounding one of the suspects. They were eventually captured. Happy ending, right? Wrong!! It seems BCI saw fit to interview them, and RELEASE them! WTF is up with that sort of nonsense?!!!!! What idiot made that bonehead decision? We have a pursuit with shots fired, and a wounded suspect after trying to ram a LEO, and we don't put them in jail immediately? Please somebody tell me this is all a big mistake! Tell me this isn't really what happened! I heard the Sheriff was not happy either, as he rightfully shouldn't be. Indeed, if this was what happened, then somebody needs to go back to patrol to get some experience! When you have 6000 numbers handling major crime investigations, you're going to have problems like this. We have people with investigative experience who are out in patrol, humping calls. We have people who have almost no street experience who are investigating robberies and homicides. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this picture? If I were those LEO's who were involved in that situation, I wouldn't have much faith in our BCI unit right now. It sure doesn't look like the detectives have their backs, or know what they are doing.

I bet if you dig a little deeper you will find that it was a supervisor who made bci dets release those people. I dont know for sure, but i'd be willing to bet on it. Also, I disagree with using patrol as a punishing ground. I know that's not what you are saying, but it does happen and it is not right!!!!!!!
Ok, this is just unacceptibly stupid! A couple of nights ago, we had a complaint that several subjects were driving around, shooting. The vehicle was located, a pursuit was engaged...a long, involved pursuit involving the Air unit, and other agencies. In the end, the suspects attempted to ram a deputy, and he fired shots in self defense, wounding one of the suspects. They were eventually captured. Happy ending, right? Wrong!! It seems BCI saw fit to interview them, and RELEASE them! WTF is up with that sort of nonsense?!!!!! What idiot made that bonehead decision? We have a pursuit with shots fired, and a wounded suspect after trying to ram a LEO, and we don't put them in jail immediately? Please somebody tell me this is all a big mistake! Tell me this isn't really what happened! I heard the Sheriff was not happy either, as he rightfully shouldn't be. Indeed, if this was what happened, then somebody needs to go back to patrol to get some experience! When you have 6000 numbers handling major crime investigations, you're going to have problems like this. We have people with investigative experience who are out in patrol, humping calls. We have people who have almost no street experience who are investigating robberies and homicides. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this picture? If I were those LEO's who were involved in that situation, I wouldn't have much faith in our BCI unit right now. It sure doesn't look like the detectives have their backs, or know what they are doing.

Ok, this is just unacceptibly stupid! A couple of nights ago, we had a complaint that several subjects were driving around, shooting. The vehicle was located, a pursuit was engaged...a long, involved pursuit involving the Air unit, and other agencies. In the end, the suspects attempted to ram a deputy, and he fired shots in self defense, wounding one of the suspects. They were eventually captured. Happy ending, right? Wrong!! It seems BCI saw fit to interview them, and RELEASE them! WTF is up with that sort of nonsense?!!!!! What idiot made that bonehead decision? We have a pursuit with shots fired, and a wounded suspect after trying to ram a LEO, and we don't put them in jail immediately? Please somebody tell me this is all a big mistake! Tell me this isn't really what happened! I heard the Sheriff was not happy either, as he rightfully shouldn't be. Indeed, if this was what happened, then somebody needs to go back to patrol to get some experience! When you have 6000 numbers handling major crime investigations, you're going to have problems like this. We have people with investigative experience who are out in patrol, humping calls. We have people who have almost no street experience who are investigating robberies and homicides. Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this picture? If I were those LEO's who were involved in that situation, I wouldn't have much faith in our BCI unit right now. It sure doesn't look like the detectives have their backs, or know what they are doing.

Uh, let me guess...................BeCause of Inexperience??????????

Suspect #1: Michael Moore (B/M 10/20/84)
Charges: Agg/Assault with a deadly weapon
Discharge a firearm from a vehicle

Suspect #2: Jose Lopez-Ortiz (H/M 11/05/94)
Charges: Aggravated fleeing to elude
Agg/Assault on LEO

Suspect #3: Rigoberto Lopez-Ortiz (H/M 08/07/1992)
Charges: Contribute Delinquency to a minor

Suspect #4: Jose Martinez (H/M 11/14/1984)
Charges: False Name to LEO
Permit unauthorized person to drive vehicle

The above is the list of subjects in the vehicle and their charges....

Are they in jail now? did they go to jail that night???? that's the question "inexperienced investigator"!! ps: gotta ask them twice,, silly patrol deputy.

Suspect #1: Michael Moore (B/M 10/20/84)
Charges: Agg/Assault with a deadly weapon
Discharge a firearm from a vehicle

Suspect #2: Jose Lopez-Ortiz (H/M 11/05/94)
Charges: Aggravated fleeing to elude
Agg/Assault on LEO

Suspect #3: Rigoberto Lopez-Ortiz (H/M 08/07/1992)
Charges: Contribute Delinquency to a minor

Suspect #4: Jose Martinez (H/M 11/14/1984)
Charges: False Name to LEO
Permit unauthorized person to drive vehicle

The above is the list of subjects in the vehicle and their charges....

Well according to PCSO web, Michael Moore has been sitting in the jail since 8/8/10, Ortiz has a misdemeanor charge, and just turned 18 on the 7th. And Mr. Martinez has no serious charges. So really the only ones charged with agg assault were the jv and Moore, Moore in the jail, jv at home breastfeeding with is momma.

For the record, there have been ZERO unsolved homicides in the past two years. Must be doing something right. To the original poster: if you think you have what it takes, post your name and number and maybe you'll be considered for the next opening in homicide...

OMG! Like the ones you have had this year were that difficult,,, give me a break. Basic GCU det could have that record,, mr 6000 id plus! Ohhh,,, hard work......even you can do it.

"BASIC GCU DET." what makes GCU any less of a detective than BCI????? :roll:

sorry about that,,, no offense,,, it's just the status of being a BCI DET, taking the high priortiy, newspaper worthy, cases. It's really harder to be a gcu det than bci,,,, in bci you have everyone above you tell you what to do, how to do it and when to do it. gcu actually has to WORK their cases......

It's funny how the people who challenge someone to post their name here, don't post their own. Let's grow up and stick to the topic! As for homicide...been there, done that. What's in there now is proof that anyone can do it. When you have supervisors telling you what to do every step of the way, it's not very hard. And I'm sure a supervisor made the decision to cut those dirtbags loose after the interviews. My guess is that they planned to charge them by affidavit, and dump it on the SAO. Bad call!! And the dirtbags are charged now, but they weren't initially. After the error was discovered by Staff, day shift had to run around, finding them again so they could be charged. So just because you see they've been in jail since the 8th, doesn't mean BCI handled the case properly. It just means patrol cleaned up their mess.

As for patrol being used as the punishment grounds for everything, I'm with you 100%. It should be used as the training ground for investigative experience. But like I said in my first post, we have people in patrol who have years of investigative experience. They're talents, knowledge, and work ethic are being wasted in patrol, while inexperienced "followers" are working in major crimes, all because they were hand picked for their attitude...not their ability. Supervision would rather have someone in investigations who takes orders, instead of someone who knows what they are doing. Their philosophy is that they can train someone to do what they are told to do a lot easier than someone who knows how to think for themselves. In an agency as big as PCSO, the people in BCI should be the most experienced. Metro Dade has detective in their homicide unit who have been their, doing an effective job, for 20+ years. If they can do it in an area that has a lot more homicides than we do, then why can't we? Why can't we keep experienced people where they belong? Makes you wonder about the supervision.

In the last post,, you hit it on the head,,, the SUPERVISION, micromanager,,, u know who it is. All the experienced ones are ran out, because they know more and know how to really investigate, not just show up with the sheriff and press. Its a shame to see all the great homicide detectives in patrol, just because of the cap//// i mean supervision. wasted talent... but that's politics for ya.

I didn't post my name because I wasn't calling anyone out. I was simply stating facts about our wonderful homicide unit. If you want to talk trash about people, don't hide behind a username.

Surely the investigating detectives had sufficient information to charge by affidavit before letting them go, so I dont think that is an accurante assumption that they had to be hunted down "to be charged". If you have as much experience as you say you have you would know this. And why exactly are you in patrol if you have all that investigative experience? Were you maybe not good at taking orders from superiors? Yes, the newbies are liked because they can be molded into what the agency wants. But I have never seen a seasoned detective replaced by an inexperienced one without good reason. I have actually seen seasoned detectives passed over for promotions because of their experience and knowledge. I have seen those same seasoned detectives repeatedly ask for, and been denied, transfers back to uniform in hopes it would help them get promoted, even threatened that transferring to patrol would hurt that chances of being promoted . So please stop harping about the inexperience of the bci detectives. Cause you are either a) someone who stepped on it and was transferred for punishment because you cant follow orders, and probably want be back anytime soon, or b) passed over for a slot in bci.







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most bci detectives, not all, think they are so superior to patrol deputies. i laugh at their attitudes. last time i checked it was a lateral transfer, not a promotion. alot of deputies are in patrol because they choose to be. alot of the detectives ive seen in action wouldn't make a skin tag on a good patrol deputies butt.

5y personal opinion is they choose the new wet behind the ears guys cause they can still go for days without sleep and function, which is what is required in homicide/robbery. Not because they are any smarter or have any brains. And yes it is a lateral transfer, no pay differential, just a deputy with the word detective in front of it. You can see that by the way subpoenas are sent out with the title Det/Deputy wet behind the ears... Nothing against the older experienced officers, just a fact of life, as we get older we cant take those week long no sleep cases any more. Personally they can have all that and my share too! :evil:

Maybe they should have called the screamer in. Bet she is very experienced. Sounds like someone woke up the sleeping suicide squad. A school crossing guard would do better than those so called detectives. Sounds like BCI called it correct again, go back to sleep in your southern sleepy city do nothing job. The real cops are handling these now and doing a great job.

Well lets take a talley of all those wet behind the ears Homicide Detectives....There are 4 that I can think of that have in excess of 10 years of investigative experience...hang on make that 5 (one just got back there this week). 2 others with 6-8 years of experience and 3 with at least 4 years of investigative experience. So wet behind the ears....Now if anyone thinks they can do a better job, put your letter of transfer in the next time there is an opening.

As for only having yes men in there, I can think of at least 2 guys in there that are anything but yes men.

Now lets tackle the issue of anyone could solve all the cases over the past 2 years....I'll start with the Abraham Shakespeare case. The guy was reported missing at least six months since the last time he was actually murdered.....not quite the easiest of cases to solve. Then there were several home invasions involving drug dealers making the pool of suspects quite large....again not the easiest of cases to solve. Then there was the old man in Lakeland that killed his 93 year old father and faked the scene to look like a burglary gone bad....Do I need to go on??


Now I have not worked with all the Homicide Detectives, but the ones I have always have treated me with the utmost respect and never made me feel like I was any less a part of this agency as they are. We all have a job to do and getting on here and bashing any part of the agency is just juvenile and stupid.

I want to thank the guy who let me know I was being dragged into this topic. I don't often come to this website, because it's so full of back biting, back stabbing, negativity, that I find it demoralizing. You people don't seem to have any understanding of what common loyalty, decency, or support for one another is. You get on here and slam each other, instead of having each others backs. I don't understand todays LEO mentality, so I don't visit here unless someone draws my attention to a particular issue. Even then, I don't often post anything. When I do post, I have the guts to identify myself.

With that said, I'll address the comments made to me by "experience". Since I am the only "she" working in a "southern" city, it doesn't take a genious to know you were referring to me. I don't know who you are, or why you felt the need to drag me into this crap heap of a thread, but your "experience" obviously has you talk out of your a$$. If you want to turn a thread into a personal attack, first make sure you know what you're talking about. As for your cute little "suicide squad" comment, it just shows how ignorant you really are. You most likely will never know what a "real deputy" is. You come on here, hide behind some scummy user name, and throw out cowardly statements about someone you don't even know. I have NO respect for people like you. Cowards are a dime a dozen. You aren't special, chief. If you want to call me out on something, have the balls to say who you are. Otherwise, shut the hell up!

Having had the title of investigator/detective in front on ones name does not necessarily mean that person is qualified to work in the major crimes unit. Some hold that title and never learned how to write a detailed report, follow up on leads, or write and serve a search warrant. I was amazed to learn one guy who had been a detective for 20 yrs, had never written a search warrant his entire career. How the heck can someone be a true detective and never write a search warrant? And to the one guy who says posting on here is juvenile and stupid, guess that puts you right along side the rest of us.

[quote="Wet Behind The Ears"]....The guy was reported missing at least six months since the last time he was actually murdered..........

How many times was he murdered????

Ok guys every job period has its ups and downs. I hear people talk about COPS deputies but when you do COPS it has its own stresses. I hear people ***** about BSI, BCI GCU and everyother group under the sun but everyone has its own problems yes if you have a major homicide everyone under the sun is out there on it from BCI and supervisors are involved in the decision making but the BCI guys have to answer to 50thousand higher ups and have information stored at the tip of their tounge and it doesnt matter if they been up for two days or an hour they are expected to keep plowing throw the case so thats alot of stress. And please dont bash patrol, I just went back and going to have to work it for awhile due to family issues and I can tell you its a lot harder than I remember, so you got to have love for patrol because everything starts from a call to a patrol deputy. So basically find a place your happy or least people your happy working with and drive the f on.

Agreed Hugh, but to add one thing, when in patrol please write a good report, write it as if you may have to investigate it. Those writing reports that say no more than they went there, determined it was a burglary and then leave, are people who should never put in for transfer to a detective slot. In the old days, the brass reviewed the reports of deputys requesting a investigative position to see how well they document. Personally, I think they should go back to doing that. If patrol would just remember to cover the who, what, when, where, why, and how and dust for prints if possible, detectives would worship uniform patrol.

I agree with the above two posts, however, look at the past two promotions of Sergeants. The majority of the deputies promoted to Sergeant, I think, were very good and legitimate promotions and I applaud them. Congratulations to you! Unfortunately your promotion was marred by two that should have never been considered, much less promoted. And if you do not know who they are, then you haven't been here long enough.

Trainees are only going to be as good as the person training them. Which is why I seriously think we need to weed out or revamp the STEP program's STI's. I have heard through the grapevine/rumor mill we are re-doing STEP, but have heard nothing of re-doing STIs. If the deputy doesn't want to train or doesnt do his own work up to par, then by all means boot them!

I hear the same deputies working tirelessly taking up way to much radio time trying to get out of a call then actually going to the call and working it.

It still baffles me that some deputies who work a certain district or sector for many years still cant find major roadways or established businesses (I.E. walmart) that have been there for years. Some people need to seriously wake up from their delusional world.