PBA Strikes Again

Has anybody had the chance to read the MOU that was signed on 6/1/08 by the PBA and the Sheriff's Office in reference to the promonitonal test. Let me answer that for you, you probably didn't because it is another back door deal that the PBA made obviously to benefit a select few. It now seems that as of 6/1, 25 days before the test, they changed the contract so that not only does FTO time now count toward taking the test but Recruit/Academy time now counts also. Funny I didn't see anything about this being posted to the members or an email sent out. How does the PBA sign an MOU that no one knows about? Obviously who ever this benefited had already put in for the test because after the MOU was signed they didn't open the process back up for people to reapply to take the test.
When is enough going to be enough already with this PBA. Take the time and goto the APPS page and read the MOU dated 6/1/08 for yourself.

Brothers and sisters, why are we lowering our standards and going backwards for sergeant applicants, to include police academy time? Maybe the PBA should include Police Explorer time, too. Just when deputies are complaining about inexperienced sergeants, we are reducing the time to become a competent sergeant. I missed the email from Kaz and PBSO about the new MOU. It does not even have a title assigned to it on the apps page, as the previous ones do. Back Door is right, is the PBA looking out for the welfare of ALL involved or just two. One is in the Dist 3. How could the two put in their apps to HR and the cut off date of accepting them without the correct tenure prior to the new MOU. What about ALL the other possible candidates? I missed that email too. Please call the PBA and ask them. Please don't use my union dues to defend the lawsuit.

We should all drop out of the PBA. Take our $40 a month dues and put it to better use like supplementing the gas increase coming. Ladies and gent's, money talks and the world operates under the "Golden Rule": those with the gold, rule. This is an absolute disgrace and a blatant, arrogant and condescending act by the administration and the PBA that says they can and will do whatever they want to. It is a further insult to those dedicated individuals who have strived and worked hard preparing for the promotional process. The promotions given away to civilian managers for the purposes of winning elections, promotion of sheriff candidates in the same unit as the civilian managers so they'll drop their campaign, the blessing of corrections ealge academy Sgt's and sending them to road patrol defines the good ol' boys network is still in full force. I am sure we'll get rediculed by the inner circle of those that have been handed their promotions or cush positions, but the biggest insult is that they really believe we are stupid enough not to figure this out. Problem is there are too many lambs at our agency. If we just got together on one single issue and sent a message to these people, it would be the last time they pull a stunt like this. I recommend bombarding the PBA with cancelling our membership and dues. The impact of 300 to 400 cancellations would put them in a frenzy, but I don't see it happening. It'll be one of those, "Okay dude, let me know when you cancel your dues, then I'll cancel mine." Man-up and lets take our $40 and put it to good use.

FOP.......... UNLESS ALL US COME TOGETHER, THIS WILL ONLY GET WORSE. EVERYONE NEEDS TO PONY UP AND STOP PAYING THE PBA. IT'S REAL EASY PEOPLE. LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT IT LETS DO IT, OTHERWISE WE NEED TO STOP TRASHING THE PBA. TALK IS CHEAP. STOP THIS UNION NOW!

Don't stop paying the PBA you may need them if you get into a shooting, it's cheap insurance. Try to get an lawer at 3 in the morning and see what you will pay, I believe you will have to fork over about 5 grand up front.

If your unhappy like me just get rid of the current board members, we didn't have these problems when Ernie ran the PBA.

It's time to clean house .

This situation goes beyond a case of sour grapes. Posting a secret MOU is highly unethical and shows a lack of integrity. Its a terrible decision that only a few stood to benefit from. The potential harm throughout the department was either never considered, or was just disregarded. The administration owes an explanation to the agency and the union owes an explanation to the membership.

The two deputies will demonstrate whether they have any integrity and what their ethical standards are by what actions they take next. They will either realize that they allowed themselves to become part of this unethical behavior and resign from the promotional processing or they will continue to show everyone that they have no standards and that they lack any true character.

It will be decisions like these, and the actions they take in response to the concerns raised, that determine whether this administration and union remain in power for the future. This was no mistake. We have all of this illegal and unethical behavior going on through the department and now the ones running the agency are doing the same things. Sounds like hypocracy to a lot of us who are sitting here waiting to be eligible to take the sergeants test.

I heard that a few will file a lawsuit?

A complaint is being processed through the Florida "PERC". You can visit the website and make a complaint yourself. Plus, if any one used their position fo authority to do this, can you say OFFICIAL MISCONDUCT! Who ever orchestrated this was clearly on duty at the time, so get the big guns and go for broke, boys.

Did anyone take a look at the scores posted today? Sad, really.

Thats just wrong !

Lets drop PBA, ASAP, lets all get together, enough is enough !

Don't believe everything you read! Rumors... all rumors... Remeber that when you cancel your membership and need representation! And when that day comes ask yourself was it worth it? Hmm paying $480yr or $480hr!! Choose wisely :lol:

What shouldnt we believe when we read it? The membership is entitled to know how, why, and who this MOU was created for. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

Don't stop paying the PBA you may need them if you get into a shooting, it's cheap insurance. Try to get an lawer at 3 in the morning and see what you will pay, I believe you will have to fork over about 5 grand up front.

If your unhappy like me just get rid of the current board members, we didn't have these problems when Ernie ran the PBA.

It's time to clean house .

The last thing I want is a PBA attorney representing me if I'm being charged in a wrongful shooting. And yes, I'm a member.

Now do you guys actually believe this is the act of one man?? Give me a break. :x

No, its actually the work of about 3-4 'boys'. Now, for those responsible for this MOU it's time to "Man Up."

[pbso]

Better yet-send all of this stuff about PBA, cars and secret MOU's to the Palm Beach Post and Sun Sentinel-they will dig into it-trust me.

At the end of the day, who does this hurt the most? We're barely recovering from the Corrections scandal and now this is what you want. Media involvment? Why add fuel to the fire? These allegations are frivolous. Where is the evidence of impropriety and unethical behavior? There are those who are disgruntled that come on here blowing things way out of proportion. After this Sheriff gets re-elected, there is going to be a lot of house cleaning. Major shake ups coming ahead.

At the end of the day, who does this hurt the most? We're barely recovering from the Corrections scandal and now this is what you want. Media involvment? Why add fuel to the fire? These allegations are frivolous. Where is the evidence of impropriety and unethical behavior? There are those who are disgruntled that come on here blowing things way out of proportion. After this Sheriff gets re-elected, there is going to be a lot of house cleaning. Major shake ups coming ahead.

Please tell me that your head is not buried that far in the sand that you can say the allegations are frivolous. The MOU is right there in black and white on the apps page and the PBA website. People are disgruntled because they are tired of the back room deals and the blatant things that are hidden from us. Can you actually tell me that the PBA consulted the membership before signing the MOU or that this MOU benefitted the memberhip as a whole.
After reading the MOU I noticed it was signed by Kaz, I thought PV was the PBSO PBA President and Kaz was the county president...Why didn't PV sign the MOU, maybe because he didn't want to get involved. There definitely needs to be a showing of the membership at the next PBA meeting and these things need to be addressed. And it would be nice if the PBA would send out an email when the next meeting is.

At the end of the day, who does this hurt the most? We're barely recovering from the Corrections scandal and now this is what you want. Media involvment? Why add fuel to the fire? These allegations are frivolous. Where is the evidence of impropriety and unethical behavior? There are those who are disgruntled that come on here blowing things way out of proportion. After this Sheriff gets re-elected, there is going to be a lot of house cleaning. Major shake ups coming ahead.

Oh my God, give me a break!
So we should keep our mouths shut to avoid embarrassment? Meanwhile, Kaz bends rules for a select few. It is insane that they would count academy time. They are not even LEO's at that point, how could you count it? They were civilians.
This MOU was signed AFTER the closing of the Sgt applications. Which means when it closed those 2 were not eligible because the MOU was not yet signed. It was signed afterwards for the benefit of these 2 people. One of them showed up for the test and his name wasn't on the list. I hear he said that he was approved to take the test and told them to call the sheriff himself to verify it.
Sounds pretty unethical to me and everyone else I see posting here and talking about it at work.

Disgruntled? No we’re PISSED! This was WRONG!

For the two guys who this MOU was created for, I hope you have the decency to drop out, because you'll NEVER get the respect of the troops if you make Sgt off of this process.

Calling on those the deputies to resign from testing and kaz to resign from the PBA. Lets see if they are going to do the right thing for the membership.

I sincerely hope that the one poster that, "needs to see the evidence" isn't in any law enforcement function, but for his sake I will break this down. Now Mr. Needin' evidence get your crayons out and here we go.
The MOU was published a very, very long time after the posted date expired to apply for testing so how would people know to put in for the test and that they would "Become" eligible before the MOU was even drafted and put in place. It's simple, they put in knowing they did not qualify and something was in the mix behind closed doors. Kinda funny that all other promotional processes never gave people the academy time until this secret MOU materialized.
Secondly, when a change or modification of anything is coming, the membership should be notified and informed of the PBA's stand on the issue. It is fair, ethhical and professional. We should have an explanation of something similar to a case law briefing so that the membership understands why a change has been made, who was involved in cultivating the change (IE new law, policy, law suit), who will be effected by the change both good and bad and the synopsis should end with an explanation of why the PBA agrees or disagrees with the change being made. This is either blatant arrorgance, stupidity or typical PBC politics.
Third, There are pleanty of examples of people underminding the eligibility process. One Sgt (DJ) had broken time between Corrections as an internal affairs investigator (CORRECTIONS) and his limited time in law enforcement which didn't meet the eligibility requirement per policy yet he was able to take the test. The meger corrections IA time not only helped him get into the Sgt's process but also now the LT's processs. If this isn't broken time, then the definition needs to be changed. Another example that the PBA ignores.
Fourth, there has been concerns about where money is being spent for years and Kaz has arrogantly defied the membership by keeping the financial records a secret. This is another disturbing "piece of evidence" what an investigator would call circumstantial evidence, Mr Crayon man. The media should be informed and the public should know if this activity is going on and as another poster said, we're not crying, we're ticked off and tired of this borderline misconduct. I can guarantee that if a forensic accountant investigated the PBA and it's money trail, it would be headline news because I am sure that funds have been spent to facilitate a fun-filled lifestyle for a select few and they don't want that to get out.
Fifth, Grievances are not properly represented and I am sure other posters that have filed one can tell you that the process is not objective by any means. The current practice it that if Kaz doesn't like it, mind you; he may have no legal backing for his opinion, or if Kaz knows it will be a fight with the administration, it won't be pursued. Name one grievance that was vigiorously pursued that resulted in a good fight where we won. Kaz bases his decision on politics and his in-experienced opinons and that is a fact. You would think that there would be a log of all grievance submitted along with the dispositions and then if a policy or contract issue changed as a result, you would think we would be notified. All of this info. becomes public information anyway.
Now Mr. Crayon deputy, you can put your crayons away now and go back to playing X-Box...

[pbso]

That MOU is a public record. If none of you wants to step and ask for it-have a friend come in and ask for it.

NO MATTER what they are told-they don't need to identify themselves in any way (they are protected by law) and they are not required to explain why they want it.

If they are told it can't be found (which wouldn't surprise anyone)-the call the Palm Beach Post and let them investigate the qualifications of everyonw who took the test. They love that kind of thing.

The last post makes no sence. The MOU is on the APPS page for all to read. If it you were screwed by it then you should speak up.

[pbso]

It did make sense since nobody seems to know which deputies got the break. Try posting the MOU on here or give the names (the MOU is official proof)

I wanna know more about the Rolex bling?????

Hey big guy its time to man up and take responsibility for doing things behind the back of the membership. You talk about people not coming to PBA meetings and it being our fault that we not informed. We dont come to the meetings because any concerns that are raised are just dismissed. And were not informed because your not letting everyone know what is going on because it unethical like the MOU.

stop bashing Kaz he is a standup guy. i have been here 15yrs and this is the best contract we ever had. Is it perfect, no, nothing is. But he fought for more money and we got it. He has a good relationship with the sheriff, and hes helped alot of guys. Just remember it could be alot worse. if you dont like the way he does it run for a rep seat and fight for what you think is right.

Go to the Florida PERC website and you can file a complaint there. I spoke to them last week and they wouldn't commit, but something is brewing and there is likely some type of investigation going on...Good News.

Go to the Florida PERC website and you can file a complaint there. I spoke to them last week and they wouldn't commit, but something is brewing and there is likely some type of investigation going on...Good News.

GREAT ! ! What is the web sight and how do you file the complaint???

Google "Florida PERC" and don't forget to review the case law examples and educate yourself. Some of the case law will astonish you...There are blantant violations taking place and all we need to do is "make the official complaint" Hammer Down!

Don't believe everything you read! Rumors... all rumors... Remeber that when you cancel your membership and need representation! And when that day comes ask yourself was it worth it? Hmm paying $480yr or $480hr!! Choose wisely :lol:

You know, $480 a year will get you a fantastic attorney!!! Much better than the half-wit, Harvard Law School Grad charging $480 an hour. That's why all the famous, rich people in the world go to the PBA hall when they've been arrested for murdering their spouses. Most of us could probably do better representing ourselves.

If you're on duty and have to kill someone the investigation will focus on the threat and your perception at the "instant" you pulled the trigger. There is a lot of case law that favors police use of deadly force this is one of the reasons why the SAO created the video walk through process. The attorney's at the PBA are tantamount to civil service workers. They're in it for the pension and steady income, the real lawyers go into the private practice so the PBA representation is about the same as what the Public Defender's offer.

Educate yourself on the elements of a police shooting investigation and listen to what advice you may get from these people but make sure you challenge and question them about every detail and issue before you go live. And if you don't do the criminal video, IA will compel you to do an administrative video or you'll get canned.

Read, Study and know how these investigations are done and it won't be so intimidating when you have to experience one.

[quote="Anonymous"]If you're on duty and have to kill someone the investigation will focus on the threat and your perception at the "instant" you pulled the trigger. There is a lot of case law that favors police use of deadly force this is one of the reasons why the SAO created the video walk through process. The attorney's at the PBA are tantamount to civil service workers. They're in it for the pension and steady income, the real lawyers go into the private practice so the PBA representation is about the same as what the Public Defender's offer.

Educate yourself on the elements of a police shooting investigation and listen to what advice you may get from these people but make sure you challenge and question them about every detail and issue before you go live. And if you don't do the criminal video, IA will compel you to do an administrative video or you'll get canned.



lets all face it, if you don't like what is going on with the guys running the PBA then get them voted out, just like we do when we don't like the sheriff.
But for anybody to say that the PBA Attorneys are no good is /well I can't say it or my post will never get posted.
I was involved in a shooting and several IA's and in all these case's I used the PBA Attorney's and I won in the IA's and I had no problem with the shooting.
These guys over there work very hard, sure they could go into the private sector and make alot more money, but so could most of us.
The Attorney's at the PBA stay because they believe in defending cops, they stand up agaisnt the public, State Attorney's Office and the brass when we are unfairly attacked.
So if you have a problem with the boys who run the PBA then get rid of them or stop crying.

For 40 dollars a month (480.00 a year ) you get your money back if you need them, ask anyone who didn't have the PBA or FOP what it cost them at 300 AM when they shoot someone, I beleive I heard it was SEVEN THOUSAND UPON ARRIVAL at the scene for a Attorney. And for an IA its 450 an hour, IA's run about 2 hours and this doesn't include pre IA and if the case go's to arbritration well figure around 4-5 grand plus attorney fee's. You dues also covers your family in case your hurt in the line of duty, and also it helps get the right people in office ( local and state ) to help all of use get bennies.

You have to look at your dues as a insurance policy, you pay it and hope you never have to use it.


THINK ABOUT IT.

Third, There are pleanty of examples of people underminding the eligibility process. One Sgt (DJ) had broken time between Corrections as an internal affairs investigator (CORRECTIONS) and his limited time in law enforcement which didn't meet the eligibility requirement per policy yet he was able to take the test. The meger corrections IA time not only helped him get into the Sgt's process but also now the LT's processs. If this isn't broken time, then the definition needs to be changed. Another example that the PBA ignores.
...


ANY IDEA OF EXACTLY HOW MUCH "LIMITED TIME" SGT DJ WAS SPENT ON THE ROAD? A YEAR, TWO? PLEASE TELL ME IT HAD TO BE AT LEAST 5 YEARS TO BE ABLE TO INVESTIGATE SERIOUS ROAD PATROL INCIDENTS.

If you're on duty and have to kill someone the investigation will focus on the threat and your perception at the "instant" you pulled the trigger. There is a lot of case law that favors police use of deadly force this is one of the reasons why the SAO created the video walk through process. The attorney's at the PBA are tantamount to civil service workers. They're in it for the pension and steady income, the real lawyers go into the private practice so the PBA representation is about the same as what the Public Defender's offer.

Educate yourself on the elements of a police shooting investigation and listen to what advice you may get from these people but make sure you challenge and question them about every detail and issue before you go live. And if you don't do the criminal video, IA will compel you to do an administrative video or you'll get canned.



lets all face it, if you don't like what is going on with the guys running the PBA then get them voted out, just like we do when we don't like the sheriff.
But for anybody to say that the PBA Attorneys are no good is /well I can't say it or my post will never get posted.
I was involved in a shooting and several IA's and in all these case's I used the PBA Attorney's and I won in the IA's and I had no problem with the shooting.
These guys over there work very hard, sure they could go into the private sector and make alot more money, but so could most of us.
The Attorney's at the PBA stay because they believe in defending cops, they stand up agaisnt the public, State Attorney's Office and the brass when we are unfairly attacked.
So if you have a problem with the boys who run the PBA then get rid of them or stop crying.

For 40 dollars a month (480.00 a year ) you get your money back if you need them, ask anyone who didn't have the PBA or FOP what it cost them at 300 AM when they shoot someone, I beleive I heard it was SEVEN THOUSAND UPON ARRIVAL at the scene for a Attorney. And for an IA its 450 an hour, IA's run about 2 hours and this doesn't include pre IA and if the case go's to arbritration well figure around 4-5 grand plus attorney fee's. You dues also covers your family in case your hurt in the line of duty, and also it helps get the right people in office ( local and state ) to help all of use get bennies.

You have to look at your dues as a insurance policy, you pay it and hope you never have to use it.


THINK ABOUT IT.



I will agree the PBA are good at what they do, but let's just say they make very, very good money working for PBA. Very well paid. There are a lot of lawyers and law firms out there and law graduates coming into the market place twice a year. the market is over-saturated with lawyers. The PBA attorneys work hard, true, but earn much, much more than their former jobs and probably a lot more than they could if they re-entered the job market today.

I will not disclose the exact salary & benefit package, but let's just say that it is over 240K.