Shift Bid really messed up?!?!

WHY...

CARS! not enough of them.and instead of just getting more cars they just change the schedule based on the car plan. Thats ass backwards.

They should just take back that joke of a take home car plan, instead of butchering up our schedule.

I don't have a car and now I guess I will have a crappy schedule too.

No need to put 99 back on the road, she will be needed right where she is.

Can't agree more. It always seems to amaze me how this place operates.

All you guys do is *****. You ever think that maybe the city wont buy more cars. Leave if you are so miserable.

Ok I do not understand the gripe. We have new cars at PW right now, yess its gunna take a while for them to get outfitted but they are there. So what's wrong with the bid?

The lack of cars is a lame excuse. This bid is horrible and the front line troops will be the ones who are affected. Well done.

You crying sack of shizzit! You got spoiled by JP and now someone with balls is putting you babies in your place. Nothing is wrong with the bid! The days of having 5-6 different schedules is over! The bid has nothing to do with the cars either.

The city wants to reduce the amount of cars citywide. How is the takehome cars a joke? By my count over 75% of the dept. has take homes. You dont have a car for one of two reasons: 1. You live out of county or 2. You have been here long enough to *****!

So, if you want to leave please do b/c someone will replace you and you wont be an after thought!

Put the plug back in your mouth and shut it!

First of all I am not a Largo hater. I have worked here for several years and preferred my 4-10 on Eves with a piece of the weekend off. It gave me (and many others) a great schedule for my family. In addition, it saved me two trips a week back a fourth to the PD. With the gas prices reaching $4/ gallon, it was nice to save that extra money.

Just FYI, if you poll all patrol officers, I guarantee 90% of the officers prefer a 4-10 schedule....obviously that doesn't mean much....

easy solution for those of you, me included, who is not happy with what is occuring with shift bid. Get the schedule stabilized by getting it set in the contract either as a 4/10, or how it was last bid...i dont care. Then, management cant just change it to what they want. That will force the city to buy new cars and everybody is happy. And yes, this can be put into the contract like anything else. I love working here and this bid wont change my opinion of this place, so dont respond with some imature reply like go work someplace else. Stay safe.

So having balls means you have to come in and screw up a schedule that the vast majority was very happy with for no apparent reason?

Having balls means you have to take an 11 year sgt who has put in 20 years at this PD and stick him on mids because no one wants to address the REAL problems on that shift?

No, I don't think so mud lizzard. Having balls would be:

1.) Tell your problem sgt that they need to retire or hit the road and copy calls. Don't reward the problem sgt by giving a premium shift on days.

2.) Allow your sgts to bid by seniority just like patrol is.

3.) Address the root problem of why mids was so F-ed up to begin with... don't punish the rest of patrol by screwing up the afternoons schedule to make sure senior people bid to midnights.

Management style here is to shift problems from one location to another. If an officer/sgt is a problem on mids, they will be a problem on other shifts. Deal with them, don't screw everyone else in the process.

It's too late anyway, so this is all just screaming in the wind.

Suck it up and deal with it. There's nothing we can do except try to get the bids into the contract like the other poster mentioned - which incidentally is an excellent idea!!!!!

By my count over 75% of the dept. has take homes.

Really? Care to break that down for us? By your numbers, that would mean that at least 106 officers have a take home car. Somehow that seems improbable, but I may be way off.

75% of the PD does not have a take home car...not even close

If we are so strapped for cars, why are we giving take-home cars to people that work in patrol (not in a speciality unit on call) and that live OUTSIDE of the city. That's a nice gesture but if we don't have enough cars in the fleet to run all three shifts does that really make any sense? I see officers who need to "borrow" a different cruiser everyday due to the lack cars in the fleet.....

In light of the recent changes, i'm sure well get alot of qualified candidates going out for the next sgt assessment. Maybe they'll actually be vested and have some experience and leadership skills, wait, that would never happen here. We'll get the people not really excelling at being cops but want to be in charge of things and administrate.

Why would someone with 15+ years and specialty experience assess, to loose any senority and control over scheduling? That's a big thanks for your years of service, it seems like we're going out of our way to screw over the sgts.

What a bunch of whiners. Especially in a time when people are getting laid off in great numbers at least we have job security. So what if someone has a car and you don't. Sure I would like one to but I'm glad to just be employed and know that it is not going anywhere.

This isn't about the cars. This is about someone making changes just to make changes and morale can be damned for all he cares. Shaking the tree once in a while is good, but have a reason.

of the 92 cars in the fleet, more than 50 are take home cars, is that not what we wanted?????

Another day, another gripe. You have group A whom is content because they have what they want. Then you have group B whom is griping because they haven't made it to group A yet. People griped about take homes, we got the radius. Now those in the radius could give a flip about those outside of it. Tough luck you chose to live where you do blah blah blah. To all those now involved in the radius that live outside of the city limits-you are getting a raise each day that gas prices continue to go up. To those not in the radius-you are losing money every day. Instead of the fuss over schedules why not start thinking about what we all can do to maximize our upcoming talks so we aren't losing our homes.

Here is a big clue on how to get at least something out of the contract...SHOW UP and support your reps during ALL the talks. Not just the first meeting. People always talk about how little or how poorly the contract and pensions are. If you do not show up you are doing nothing to help. It really does make a difference if you get a room with 75 officers in it..instead their is usually an empty room. Think about it when you type your next gripe.

Plenty of reason to shake the trees! One is the Sgts have become to comfortable on their shifts. Most haven't moved in years. The new ones all had great shifts and days off. Then you have the ones that cry that they can't work a certain shift due to family issues or medical problems. Give me a break!! You wanted to be Sgt so bad now you got it so Deal with it.

I agree 70 should be booted and sent to the farm but that will not fix everything. You have 264 and 234 trying to get hardships when they haven't work anything but Eves. This dept for better or worse has always bent over backwards for the troops and I'm sure if you think about it you will remember when something was done for you to pacify your issues.

The problem with this place is that no one wants to take responsibilty and deal with the slugs, whether it be an officer or sgt or lt. Having a new sgt is not going to come near to fixing the problem. If you think for instance 129 will do anything if he even gets promoted you are sadly mistaken. People with his tenure are just looking to pad their retirement and dont give a damn about "changing things". Why do you think their sending him back upstairs and getting someone else to be acting on eves.

The point of this post is for years and years we have been spoiled and now that someone wants to change things and have the leaders make the decisions and not the troops everyone is crying. You may not like it now but in the long run it will be good for the agency. For those of you that have always gotten what you wanted from birth I can see how this would hurt.

Oh yeah, one more thing. There is no way you can argue a work schedule in negotiations!! It is based on agency needs and the Chief thankfully has that decision. Before you start attacking just think about it. Do you really want some bean counter sticking his pencil in how police operations and deployment are decided? NO WAY........... EVERYONE WILL BE OK JUST GIVE IT TIME.

There is no acting sgt on eves. And you would know that because you just bid for shift with everyone else. Oh, wait, you're just a disgruntled used-to-be-LPD at the S.O. Nevermind.

I am so sorry that you have the observation skills of a blind slope. Look at the bid again on eves.......the last sgt spot clearly reads.....acting sgt.

Think before your next reply.....A-HOLE

And who do you think will be the acting on eves...

The PPO - Pet Police Officer

No worries. She will fix everything.

The lazy, worthless slugs will continue to be rewarded for their butt kissing skills. Hard work and ethics will count for zip. Nothing will change. 129 knew what he was doing and stood a good chance of being a great supervisor. But the recent "F-you's" to the current sgts ensured no one worth a damn will go out for the position. Why would you? You're the most senior sgt in patrol and you have no say in your schedule. Why not bid for their schedule by seniority? There should be no need to put "strong" sgts on any given shift, because all of your sgts should be qualified to do the job they were hired to do. If they aren't, then they shouldn't be sgts anymore. Why on earth do we allow incompetent people to continue in their position until they meltdown or do something stupid, and then simply move them somewhere else?

Good luck to evening shift. You're going to need it. :(

Who is the PPO? I agree 100% with demoting the clueless/worthless but you know that will never happen! You wanna talk about a waist of money, you have 129 as acting sgt for months but you keep two sgts in useless positions like POP and whatever Hill does? And to top it off you have a Lt. in charge of both of them! This place is so top heavy one day it will tip over. 129 probably wont go out for the sgt assessment not because of crappy days but he knows that he can't do the job. Well, I should say properly, we have plenty that can't do the job......

Who is the PPO? I agree 100% with demoting the clueless/worthless but you know that will never happen! You wanna talk about a waist of money, you have 129 as acting sgt for months but you keep two sgts in useless positions like POP and whatever Hill does? And to top it off you have a Lt. in charge of both of them! This place is so top heavy one day it will tip over. 129 probably wont go out for the sgt assessment not because of crappy days but he knows that he can't do the job. Well, I should say properly, we have plenty that can't do the job......

You can say a lot of things, but POP and Hill's volunteers do a lot of work.

And who do you think will be the acting on eves...

The PPO - Pet Police Officer

No worries. She will fix everything.

:shock:

if you worked afternoons, you'd know who the PPO is. she has a personal sgt and LT, sets her own schedule, has direct access to command staff (no chain of command) and does about 1/3 to 1/2 of the work of her zone partners, but is still treated like the hardest working badge in all of law enforcement. her pet sgt hand feeds her glory cases and then mentions her in significant activity for just about anything she does beyond filling up her gas tank. just listen to the radio: she'll be the one saying, "i'll take the back on that, it's my zone," or, "copy traffic." when are we going to start judging people by their work product and not their azz-kissing proficiency?

DON'T HATE THE PLAYER HATE THE GAME.

The game certainly sucks. Make buddy-buddy with the right people and you can do whatever you want. How about no games at all and, wait, imagine this, we all come to work to do our job and our evaluations are based on our performance.

Good Luck With That.

Plenty of reason to shake the trees! One is the Sgts have become to comfortable on their shifts. Most haven't moved in years. The new ones all had great shifts and days off. Then you have the ones that cry that they can't work a certain shift due to family issues or medical problems. Give me a break!! You wanted to be Sgt so bad now you got it so Deal with it.

I agree 70 should be booted and sent to the farm but that will not fix everything. You have 264 and 234 trying to get hardships when they haven't work anything but Eves. This dept for better or worse has always bent over backwards for the troops and I'm sure if you think about it you will remember when something was done for you to pacify your issues.

The problem with this place is that no one wants to take responsibilty and deal with the slugs, whether it be an officer or sgt or lt. Having a new sgt is not going to come near to fixing the problem. If you think for instance 129 will do anything if he even gets promoted you are sadly mistaken. People with his tenure are just looking to pad their retirement and dont give a darn about "changing things". Why do you think their sending him back upstairs and getting someone else to be acting on eves.

The point of this post is for years and years we have been spoiled and now that someone wants to change things and have the leaders make the decisions and not the troops everyone is crying. You may not like it now but in the long run it will be good for the agency. For those of you that have always gotten what you wanted from birth I can see how this would hurt.

Oh yeah, one more thing. There is no way you can argue a work schedule in negotiations!! It is based on agency needs and the Chief thankfully has that decision. Before you start attacking just think about it. Do you really want some bean counter sticking his pencil in how police operations and deployment are decided? NO WAY........... EVERYONE WILL BE OK JUST GIVE IT TIME.

So what if supervisors become comfortable in their shift? It gives them an opportunity to become intimately familiar with the issues of that shift. So what if the new sarges have great days off? If the schedule supports it, why not? Just because they are new sergeants doesn't mean you have to give them crappy days off just because you CAN.

That's the old school mentality of, "I had to suffer, so should you!" If we're going back to that school of thought, every ID number above 300 needs to get weekdays off only. When I started here, you didn't get a piece of the weekend on days until you were into your tenth year or more. Now you have guys with seven or eight years and sunday/monday off on days. People with one year on have a piece of the weekend on evening shift. Hey, here's an idea: Eliminate ALL of that so only the most senior people, 15 years or more, get ANY piece of the weekend on day shift. Then make certain only people with ten years or more have a piece of the weekend on afternoons. Why not? We CAN.

Oh, and why does 160 keep his days off? He's been a sergeant for what, five minutes longer than the other newbies? Hmmmmmmm.

Change for the sake of change alone is a sign of ineptitude. It means, "Somethings wrong, I don't know what it is, so let me just change things so it looks like I know what I'm doing."

As far as family issues... I wouldn't be surprised if YOU have been the beneficiary of a significantly altered schedule to accomodate some family problems you're having. Maybe recently. This police department HAS always bent over backwards - it's one of the things that makes this a great place to work. It's one of the many reasons a huge percentage of us choose to say right HERE, and not move on to bigger bowls with more opportunities. Family is important. I certainly hope that you haven't received any special treatment regarding your schedule in order to "pacify" your family needs. If so, I'd hate for someone to start making a stink about the exceptions made for you when no one else gets any.

Also, if you didn't have your head buried so far up other people's a$$e$, you would realize the reason 234, 264 and gunny get NO consideration for their issues is that as soon as the problem sergeant found out she was being moved, she immediately declared a hardship case. In order to deny her hardship case, now ALL hardship cases must be denied. Sooooo, instead of actually dealing with the problem, we're going to relocate it to another shift and then punish everyone else so we don't get sued by the very problem we SHOULD be elminating to begin with.

Don't dare to pretend to have the right to poke at gunny for his medical issues. Most people would have hung up their hats and started sucking at the City's disability teet. Instead he's here EARNING his money and working through it. That man has earned the right to choose his schedule after so many years of dedicated service. Same for 38, 31, 66 and all the rest of the guys that have put their time it at this department. What was done to gunny is just plain $hitty. You know the amazing thing - you won't here ONE WORD of complaining out of him about this situation. He sucks it up, does his job like a good soldier and deals with his personal issues on his own. I very seriously doubt the same could be said for you.

The job of sergeant does come with the consideration that you can be assigned whatever shift command staff deems appropriate. Yes, you accept that risk when you accept your stripes. But all of the people wearing stripes, with the exception of one, are willing to work together to help each other out and accomodate their buddies' home-lives.

I don't know whether 129 was "sent" back upstairs, and I don't think you do either. Before you post something like that, why don't you go ask him for yourself if you actually are pretentious enough to believe it's any of your business.

No one doubts that the command staff has the authority and ability to lead from the top. What is being questioned in this thread is the logic behind what's being done. Change for the sake of change. That's all it looks like. What is accomplished by f-ing up the afternoons shift bid? What is accomplished by taking one of your senior sergeants and jamming up his personal life by moving him to mids? What is accomplished by not allowing your sergeants to bid for their shifts and days off? What is accomplished by taking a supervisor who is dangerously incompetent on the road and moving them to another shift so they can continue to mislead those who don't already know better? There are better, significantly more effective solutions to the problems we are attempting to address.

Finally, every TRULY GREAT leader throughout history has recognized the importance of troops morale. It's not a sign of weakness or indecisiveness to keep your people happy. It's a sign of recognizing that happy people work better, harder and longer than those who are bitter and angry. If you don't understand that basic concept of leadership, you really should be looking for another role in your organization.

Here's what will happen with time - things will remain the same.

:D

Wow that was an extremely well written and thought out post and I agree with 95% of it. The only part I do not agree with is the part of fixing the schedule so that only the senior get the weekend spots or part of the weekend spots off.

We all have family and lets face it we are a very young department now with 45% to 47% of the road Officers having 6 years or less. This is great for the department and great for the troops. This helps a 400 number to get weekends off and having only been here less than 3 years. What does that do for his morale, it shoots it through the roof.

Take that same person and deny him those days because you feel he has not been here long enough to earn those days and add the mix of other recent problems at the department and he may start looking somewhere else. Now we just lost a good Officer to a larger agency where he will get the same days off. We are a great agency that works to accomodate all family needs when possible.

I love that there are new people getting Sunday and Monday off being that they have been here 2 years or less. This does wonders for their work productivity.

As for the other issues there is a lot that should probably be looked at but talk to me when you have been here as long as that person has and try to tell that person she or he should resign because you do not feel they can do this job anymore. I think it sucks that Gunny was moved to mids and I DO NOT think that was the right decision. They should have let her ride out her time till retirement and say thank you for your service to this department and good luck in the future.

If you want to woory about something make it something worth while and not things that you have no power to change.

Go to the Union meetings or the Retirement meetings and voice what you want as a group. With us as a whole not showing up and saying what we want and then complaining when we get screwed just does not sound like a good idea. There is a lot happening right now that we HAVE the power to change and put our 2 cents in so go do it.

Do you realise that they are trying to still get the COLA in even though the entire department voted agains it. Probably not because you are to busy trying to figure out why command staff is doing what they are doing. And even if you figure it out it does not make a difference due to the fact you can not change it.

When you end up paying 10% into your retirement which works out to roughly another 150.00 a month and then start complaing shame on you for not speaking up for what you want.

The point is do not complain about the things you can not change. Change the things that are in your control!!!

Stay safe

P. S. If there are typing errors I appoligise and please do not correct them. I typed this fast with no spell check thanks

when are we going to start judging people by their work product and not their azz-kissing proficiency?

Never.... because who doesn't love having their ass kissed?

And there is more than one "PPO" on eves. I can't wait to get off this shift.

I was being sarcastic about taking away days off from the newer people. Seriously. I think it's great that they have part of the weekend off. Sorry for the confusion, I was trying to make a point about the old school notion of, "If I suffered, so should you."

I don't really think it's any better of an idea to take away their days off than it is to move gunny to mids!

:oops:

Mrs Gunny, you're right, he's a nice guy and he will go where ever they tell him to go. Maybe this schedule will be even better for him. Every Sgt takes the stripes knowing the system, no bid, no choice, period. Most recent sgts (or lts for that matter) haven't been great cops, haven't even been cops long enough to inspire leadership. The people with the most and best experience for leadership are parked behind desks upstairs taking advantage of their M-F days for as long as they can. When their time is up why would they consider the promo process? So they can be junior to sgt 7 year nobody? ftoing makes up the difference. Whatever's going on behind the curtain, the result is the same, fixing the symptoms not the problems.

If you think that only Largo has these problems, then you haven't worked anywhere else. EVERY agency has some crappy employees, supervisors, and brass. Some more or less than Largo. Based on my experience, Largo is a lot better off in many aspects than some of the other departments in the area.

At the end of the day, you have to decide why you are here. If you want to be a cop, then go out and do your job. Take the good when you can, fight the bad when you must, but don't lose sight of why you are here.

If you are too caught up in the politics, you will burn out. Those that burn out, best move on, otherwise you just piss the rest of us off with your *****in and whining.

Copy your calls, watch out for your partners, and go home every night to your families.

It absolutely amazes me that a certain senior Sgt has the gumption to continue pushing for a COLA that he knows will screw over 90 percent of the department, that 95 percent of the department voted against, and only really benefits 3 or 4 officers. Yet that same Sgt is still allowed to represent the great majority without anything being said except on a private forum.

If anyone has it, give me the name, address, and phone number of the exact person I can go to with this problem so I can discuss it with them. If you all do the same maybe something will get said about it.

For those that do not know there is a vote on Thursday for the negotiations committee and I see no reason why with enough votes that the Senior person in question can't be voted out. BUT the only way tis will happen is if people step up and say they will go out for the position. I personally do not think that a person in the drop should be on the negotiations team for my retirement that I will not see for another 15 years.

So instead of sitting back STAND up and be heard, put your hat in the ring and be able to fight for what you want. DO NOT be the person that complains on this board and does nothing about it at work. Or worse yet complains about it and then talks to that senior person and tell him he's doing a great job.

Unless you want that senior seargant to use you, taking away approximately 200 dollars a month of YOUR pay. All so he can retire and take care of himself and himself only.

Just to hit on a few of the topics discussed in the thread.

First and most important- 70 must leave MIDS. She is an absolute disater. Nothing more should be said on this topic.

Second- COLA is the WORST idea for anyone with less than 15 years on. Go talk to any financial adviser or finance major and they will clearly explain the logic behind that. That's a no-brainer. Now if your number is in the 100's, its a good idea to push COLA. Enough said.

Third- Morale is VERY important to street cops. If were not happy then the work product will show. Any Lt's or Capt's or higher that don't see this, shame on them. This new bid will really effect morale. That's what you get for changing something that isn't broken.

The rest of the issues are very childish. PPO- take that up with her, she's been like that for years. The SGT. shuffle is something the SGT's need to address. This is a good agency and for the most part people are happy. I just wish the "upper management" will think about the street cops before pulling the trigger. Be careful out there.

That should say "absolute disaster".

You need to stop and think how good we have it! Really think, there is so much that goes on here that you would never see in another agency. Yes we have some minor issues but nothing earth shattering like you think. I see nothing wrong with the bid other than a few weekend spots taken off the board. Peeks and Valleys people....just ride the wave.

One more thing that really bothers me. When you use the word "Gunny" for someone who was never a Marine or in any other military branch! I have served proudly in the ARMY and I know my friends in the Marines would be PISSED to here someone refered to as "Gunny" who hasn't seen a battle field. And yes 264 before you reply, I have seen the battle field many times unlike your air conditioned truck and kitchen!

The nickname "Gunny" does not belong to 264 and if you actually worked here you would know that.

The above poster is correct. The "gunny" referred to in this post was a Gunnery Sergeant in the US Marine Corp. I'm sure he would appreciate your loyalty.

I know it's not 264 J.A. NO 124 was NOT in the Marines!!!

ok.....at this point this thread has degraded and is for all intents and purposes dead. NEXT