Stand Together

Career Suicide: To perform an action or partake in an activity that will totally discredit you and nullify any chance of personal advancement.
Davie Career Suicide: The reason that one gives for allowing his or herself to be taken advantage by the administration.

Examples:

“I would demand comp time, if it wasn’t career suicide.”

“I would refuse the lateral transfer on the grounds that it is unfair, if I wouldn’t be committing career suicide.”

“I would refuse to work a DUI checkpoint for comp time if it were not career suicide.”

“I would go to the Town Council meeting to either demand the removal of the Chief or to support a fellow officer, if it were not career suicide.”

Probation: Subjection of an individual to a period of testing and trial to ascertain fitness (as for a job or school).

Davie Probation: A time of terror for new employees used by the Administration to undermine the collective bargaining agreement.

Examples:

“Hey, you’re on probation. You’ll work for comp time. Won’t you?”

“I’m assuming that since you are on probation, you won’t be putting in for overtime even though you had to stay an hour late.”

“I know you’re on probation, so I would expect you to put in for the “voluntary” AR-15 program.”

“You’re on probation, right? I’m going to just adjust your hours this week.”

Any time that a member works outside of the collective bargaining agreement, they are screwing over every other officer in this Department. The only reason that the department tries to get away with things like unpaid training; forced comp time; transferring members, without giving them a reason; administratively moving detectives without posting the positions; etc. is that they know that someone will step in, and out of personal interest, take the place of the officer who made a stand.

I have never seen this place in such a horrific state of affairs. This is the time for us to stick together. Not go out and cut our own separate deals. Do not accept personal gain by stepping over the bodies of your friends, regardless of what you think of them.

Why don't you just quit ! My kids are more mature than your last post.

Why don't you just quit ! My kids are more mature than your last post.

Because I have a contract, which I live up to. I am talking about management constantly attempting to violate that contract. Why don't you come work here and see if you like the atmosphere of intimidation that is pervasive in this department?

Why don't you just quit ! My kids are more mature than your last post.

Great post Capt. Richards

after 17 years of police work one think you learn is that someone will always jump into another persons detail.

after 17 years of police work one think you learn is that someone will always jump into another persons detail.

I know, but does that make it right? I don't mean that no one should ever fill a position that has been vacated by an employee that was removed under negative circumstances, but rather only when the department starts to play their cloak and dagger shennanigans.

The reason that the threat of losing the SWAT team didn't cause anyone to lose any sleep is because they (probably correctly) assumed that other people would fill the slots. They dangle the SWAT carrot in front of a few officers and they rebuild the team. They care more about the gear than they do about who fills it.

Well, what if they don't get volunteers. What if the AR-15's gather rust? What if the SWAT truck sits in the parking lot? What if Davie didn't have a narcotics unit? What if the FTO program was staffed with probationary volunteers?

I don't want any of this to happen, but I do want them to deal with us in good faith. The Union shouldn't have to file a grievance every week. This is getting ridiculous.

Everyone wants to be a hardnosed administrator in this place. Give the orders and don't listen to the griping. George Patton was not a great general because he slapped a soldier and shot a mule. George Patton was a great general who also slapped a soldier and shot a mule.

When ambition and favoritism win the battle over leadership and talent you get the Davie Police Department.

I hope this was slightly more mature for you, you jackass. That was for Davie Resident.[/i]

You my friend need to find another job. You just made me cry. Have you got no clue about anything !!! Go join the military and then complain about conditions.

Nice to have some accountability... Are all these posts that make me cry... from the X vin guys. I've got to go get a tissue or two. I'll be back.. as the great one said.
Can someone also tell me who said.. What goes around, comes around.

This is one of the best threads I have seen in a long time. One good FTO left the FTO program this week and the rumor is that another good one is getting out as well. Guess they could care less about the catch phrase "career suicide".

Once again! Something positive is done by administration and 3 or 4 people get spanked. Then those 3 or 4 people cry and make like everybody is against this.. Way to go Chief. We love accountability. Things are finally turning around at our PD. No more good ole boy. Do your job right or quit.

QUIT AND GO HOME. WE HAVE HIRED GREAT OFFICERS IN THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.. TAKE IT LIKE A MAN OR WOMAN !!!! YOU ARE NOT 10 YEARS OLD ANYMORE. DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE BUTT AS YOU LEAVE AND JOIN....... ....... WAIT !!! YOU CANT GET HIRED AT ANOTHER DEPARTMENT. DAVIE IS AWESOME.

Can you tell us how the Chief violated the contract.... R C has the integrity to run any unit. I'm going to nominate the Chief for OFFICER of the Decade !

this is why i'v stayed on road patrol and never gone to any detail.you can never lose working the road because your already working at the bottom of the barrel :lol:

this is why i'v stayed on road patrol and never gone to any detail.you can never lose working the road because your already working at the bottom of the barrel :lol:

Are some zones considered more elite than other zones?

Confused officer wrote:

"R C has the integrity to run any unit"

Damn, you really are confused! The only unit that R C would be good at running is IA!

That just made my point... He has integrity. You are in the wrong line of work. Thats the problem with our agency.... It's been allowed to lower It's standards. BUT there are a lot of good Men and Women left. I am Chance Ransom..... You my friend need to quit !

That just made my point... He has integrity. You are in the wrong line of work. Thats the problem with our agency.... It's been allowed to lower It's standards. BUT there are a lot of good Men and Women left. I am Chance Ransom..... You my friend need to quit !

Chance Ransom Violation - Chance Ransom will never post anything on LEO Affairs. He is also a great supporter of teamwork and the collective bargaining agreement. He can also eat more eggs than Cool Hand Luke.

You my friend need to find another job. You just made me cry. Have you got no clue about anything !!! Go join the military and then complain about conditions.

I understand that the military has much tougher working conditions than we do. I'd bet that they have worse working conditions than most jobs. However, I didn't join the military. I was hired by Davie Police Department. An institution that has gone from being a premier police department to a second or third tier agency.

I also signed a contract, along with roughly 160 other officers and officials from the Town. I live up to my end of the contract or I get fired. The Administration has attempted to violate the contract whenever it is convenient for them. If you are a Davie resident, then your concern should be the reason that the city signed a contract that they couldn't live with.

That just made my point... He has integrity. You are in the wrong line of work. Thats the problem with our agency.... It's been allowed to lower It's standards. BUT there are a lot of good Men and Women left. I am Chance Ransom..... You my friend need to quit !

Chance Ransom Violation - Chance Ransom will never post anything on LEO Affairs. He is also a great supporter of teamwork and the collective bargaining agreement. He can also eat more eggs than Cool Hand Luke.

Easter is just around the corner. Chance should be able to stock up on those eggs. How does he like his eggs, scrambled or "over easy"?

That just made my point... He has integrity. You are in the wrong line of work. Thats the problem with our agency.... It's been allowed to lower It's standards. BUT there are a lot of good Men and Women left. I am Chance Ransom..... You my friend need to quit !

Chance Ransom Violation - Chance Ransom will never post anything on LEO Affairs. He is also a great supporter of teamwork and the collective bargaining agreement. He can also eat more eggs than Cool Hand Luke.

Easter is just around the corner. Chance should be able to stock up on those eggs. How does he like his eggs, scrambled or "over easy"?

I figured hard boiled so they can be dyed for Easter. Pretty pastels mainly.

I'm going to buy that guy a lot of cheese!

How can we stand together when a member of the board (637) is willing to be a scab and train on his own time because HE wants to?

How can we stand together when a member of the board (637) is willing to be a scab and train on his own time because HE wants to?

I don't think that was what was said. I believe that 637 is trying to find a solution to the training issue that does not violate the contract. A lot of people seem to think that SRT is looking to cut their own deal. I believe that they are just trying to get the Department to deal with them equitably. If they train a day, they get a day off with 10 days notice. That is not the same as working for free. Working for free is when you work your 48 or 36 hour week and then you work an extra day with no comp or overtime.

I am not a supporter of what is going on in the department, but if you are going to attack someone, keep the facts straight. However, if you do know someone that is working for free, call them out on it. Just remember that an adjustment of hours is not free work. They are allowed to do this by contract for training purposes only.

I'm still waiting for the poster to show where the city violated the contract. We Have a Great SWAT TEAM.... VIN >> LOL. A couple of people just want to cause trouble for the majority.

I'm still waiting for the poster to show where the city violated the contract. We Have a Great SWAT TEAM.... VIN >> LOL. A couple of people just want to cause trouble for the majority.

Yup its always the same few officers and supervisors that have a hidden agenda.When theysame few are the subject of a negative issue they scream like a cat in heat.

I'm still waiting for the poster to show where the city violated the contract. We Have a Great SWAT TEAM.... VIN >> LOL. A couple of people just want to cause trouble for the majority.

Yup its always the same few officers and supervisors that have a hidden agenda.When theysame few are the subject of a negative issue they scream like a cat in heat.


MEOW!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm still waiting for the poster to show where the city violated the contract. We Have a Great SWAT TEAM.... VIN >> LOL. A couple of people just want to cause trouble for the majority.

Pay attention here, because I only want to have to do this once.

The Administration violated the contract by offering, "flex time" to the officers in the various specialized units. Flextime does not exist within the parameters of the last several contracts. You could adjust hours or pay overtime. Recently they can pay comp time. See Article 28

The Administration violated the contract by trying to force officers to come in late or leave early when they had to stay late on a previous shift. The practice of adjusting hours to avoid payment of overtime is strictly forbidden in the contract. Article 28.5

The Administration attempted to do the same as the above paragraph for officers who had mandatory training on their days off.

The Administration materially affected two detectives' and a sergeant's wages, hours, or terms and conditions of employment without providing "just cause." They did this by removing the three employees from VIN and placing them in a specialized unit. No reason was provided to the employees for the removal. However, it appears to be for discipline. Article 2 - Management Rights.


The Administration, after agreeing to pay members of the Oral Board overtime for conducting the interviews, told them two days before the interview date that they could either accept comp time or they would not be needed. Article 28.6 states that the employees "may elect" to receive comp time in lieu of overtime with the approval of the Chief of Police.

The Administration has offered voluntary uncompensated training to carry the AR-15. While I don't believe they violated the contract, they clearly are trying to circumvent the spirit of it. Incidentally, anyone seen carrying an AR-15 at this point should be considered a scab.

We have this ridiculous, haphazard 12-hour schedule crammed down our throats by the town. Now that it doesn't really work well with other goals, they try to violate it. In fairness, they seem to have backed down from most of their more controversial positions, but now we don't have training. If they want to train cops, the Department needs to hire more cops or pay overtime.

That's enough for now. Instead of acting like a little cheerleader, why don't you come up with an argument of your own instead of your "Hooray for everything" two line posts?

I'm still waiting for the poster to show where the city violated the contract. We Have a Great SWAT TEAM.... VIN >> LOL. A couple of people just want to cause trouble for the majority.

Yup its always the same few officers and supervisors that have a hidden agenda.When theysame few are the subject of a negative issue they scream like a cat in heat.

I am not nor have I ever been the subject of a negative issue. This post shows me that you have no idea of the point of a Union. I am not waiting for it to happen to me. My "hidden agenda" is to force the adherence to the contract. Also, I am not afraid to be the subject of a negative issue if I am in the right.

A "scab" for example would have been attending the multi-agency swat training in Pembroke Pines on your own time and not being compensated for it. I don't know if this occurred but this is an example.

Sometimes people feel that they are entitled to be in a specialized unit.
I can now see where the crying is coming from. There are 2 sides to this story and 1 side can't be told... but we all know what it is !
WAY TO GO CHIEF!

You call them a scab for maybe doing something. You need to quit and go work at Burger King. Some of us still love our jobs. You have a very negative view of life !! I feel sorry for your family.

That's exactly it. Some of us have families outside of work. Davie is not our family. If you want us to WORK on our days off we should be paid for it.

Look how Sgt. Nico was treated. He had a heart attack and was fired. Left to sue the Town in order to obtain compensation.

You call them a scab for maybe doing something. You need to quit and go work at Burger King. Some of us still love our jobs. You have a very negative view of life !! I feel sorry for your family.

The author of this rot thinks that someone else should be working at Burger King? Double exclamation points? Call them a scab? I think it's clear who needs to find menial employment.

You know what? I love waffles. On my days off I should start busing tables at the Waffle house for free because I love them so much.

There is no difference between the nonsense that I just wrote then what working off duty for free means. No difference.

I'm going to cry again ! Please let me go get some tissue's. 3 or 4 people who are miserable try to push their misery on others. This is really fun.
You complain about going to training and then complain about not going to training. You complain about days being adjusted for training. You my friend are depressed ! You cant push your depression on us anymore. WAIT... Lets see if we can get overtime for just coming to work

If you guys will not make fun of me, I'll go work at a certain Limo Business.

Okay this is getting stupid again. How was Sgt. Nic screwed over. Get ALL the facts. You go follow the small majority. Follow Workmans Comp Rules and things are fine. If you start acting silly and calling people names, We will stop talking to you again. You my friend follow the wrong people!

It's amazing how a few messed up people can destroy an organization. But look at who they look up to. Way to go Chief. WE HAVE A CHIEF WHO DOESN"T PLAY GAMES. P.S. ... Do you still give Limo discounts to Davie Employees

go to the roundup bar and ask him. thats his new office. he looks pretty good to me.

go to the roundup bar and ask him. thats his new office. he looks pretty good to me.

Who?

Okay this is getting stupid again. How was Sgt. Nic screwed over. Get ALL the facts. You go follow the small majority. Follow Workmans Comp Rules and things are fine. If you start acting silly and calling people names, We will stop talking to you again. You my friend follow the wrong people!

Once again, someone "thinks"they know the facts of this case; or worker's comp laws, etc...... Sgt. Nico WAS following workers comp rules; when workers comp started treating him differently, his attorney (PBA by the way) stepped in and fought for his rights; which a judge agreed with....

NOw, back to the topic at hand...

Does Chance like green eggs & ham???

How can we stand together when a member of the board (637) is willing to be a scab and train on his own time because HE wants to?
Probably because hes an fop board member that knows the rules and that the fop is weak. He also knows that things can sometimes get done to benefit people that may not seem right but it might work out in the long run. At least hes trying, who else is?

First of all, I would love to know who keeps writing, "Way to go, Chief?" I hide behind the cloak of anonymity because I am obviously writing about things that would be unpopular with the powers that be. However, since you are obviously much the "Company Man." what do you hide from?

I want to clarify a few things. I have not personally been hurt by this department. I'm not disaffected because I got a raw deal somewhere along the road. But, my God, man, you have to have blinders on to not see what is going on here. Even if you can't see it, I listed them.

We have a contract. I'm not asking for anything special. I'm just asking the Department to live up to it's contract. I don't belong to a Union so that I can wait around for the Department to do something to me in particular.

Saying that you don't care if the Department violates their contract because you like your job, is like saying that you don't really care if you're spouse cheats on you. "Yeah, I guess we agreed to stay faithful, but I really love my marriage, so I guess I'll just go along with it."

You have another thing wrong. 3 or 4people don't cause this kind of dissension. No one would listen to the 3 or 4 people unless there were some serious issues. I'm not listing them again. Try to respond with something other than "Way to go...!" I think we all get that you think highly of the Administration.

Lets all get tissues.. When people don't get their way, they say I've been treated differently. And the stupid part is YOU follow before getting the full truth...

Lets all get tissues.. When people don't get their way, they say I've been treated differently. And the stupid part is YOU follow before getting the full truth...

Who has offered the truth? The Town wont comment on Necolletos and Mize because of privacy rights. The VIN guys were, offered no explanation for their removal. The things that we have been told about, like free training are self explanatory. I'm willing to listen to the admins explainations for their actions. They have a bulletin board and a chain of command. Go read the memo announcing the VIN transfers and tell me what you're able to determine from that. The VIN guys went to the FOP meeting and spoke.

Let's get over the nico and mize thing. No one can offer any proof that the heart bill was violated. The town has attorneys that know the bill. the person that keeps saying the town screwed up can't even tell us what is in the heart bill and how the town screwed up.

Let's get over the nico and mize thing. No one can offer any proof that the heart bill was violated. The town has attorneys that know the bill. the person that keeps saying the town screwed up can't even tell us what is in the heart bill and how the town screwed up.\

I will concede that point and call it a draw, but that is clearly not the only issue that has everyone stirred up.

[/quote]I understand that the military has much tougher working conditions than we do. I'd bet that they have worse working conditions than most jobs. However, I didn't join the military. I was hired by Davie Police Department. An institution that has gone from being a premier police department to a second or third tier agency. [/quote]

The problem is that if you quit here, where would you go where conditions are better. All you have to do is read the threads from the other departments and it will not take you long to realize that all have problems.

How about Ft. Lauderdale's problems. Except they are stepping on it at the moment.

Let the cry babies quit! We just got a great raise!

How about reading the paper. The economy sucks. At least we have a job and got that raise. Selfish little people

How about reading the paper. The economy sucks. At least we have a job and got that raise. Selfish little people

I love when people try to lead you off message. No one has argued that we are unfairly compensated. The argument is about the mismanagement of the department. That can happen with great pay.

Then quit little baby... We have to go get more tissues if we are to continue to listen to you. Thw world and the department aren't perfect.

Then quit little baby... We have to go get more tissues if we are to continue to listen to you. Thw world and the department aren't perfect.

I won't address this idiot again unless he or she comes up with a cogent argument. I'm happy to discuss or debate issues with any of the rest of you. People like this are rarely very impressive to me.

I really dont think antthing is very impressing to you. You are really depressed!

I really dont think antthing is very impressing to you. You are really depressed!

Were you drunk when you wrote this?

How about reading the paper. The economy sucks. At least we have a job and got that raise. Selfish little people

I love when people try to lead you off message. No one has argued that we are unfairly compensated. The argument is about the mismanagement of the department. That can happen with great pay.

But isn't that what SRT members were whining about, not being compensated? So which is it?

[quote=duuuu]How about reading the paper. The economy sucks. At least we have a job and got that raise. Selfish little people

I love when people try to lead you off message. No one has argued that we are unfairly compensated. The argument is about the mismanagement of the department. That can happen with great pay.

But isn't that what SRT members were whining about, not being compensated? So which is it?[/quote:1u476lw1]

They should just quit then.

But isn't that what SRT members were whining about, not being compensated? So which is it?[/quote]

I don't think that they were "whining." A while back they would train on their work day. If their hours were different they would just adjust them for that day. If they worked out on their off day, they would accrue "flex" time, which is one of those side deals that we talked about.

The flex time was properly ended, but that left the problem as to how the department would make up the time to them. For instance, if they worked Sunday through Wednesday on their normal work days and then trained Thursday on their off days, then they worked one extra day in the week. Since they couldn't accrue flex time or overtime, they were seeking comp time. The department said "no."

The solution was that they either allow the Department to adjust their days off during their training weeks or to pay them. If neither of these things can be accomplished, then the team members can either decide to work for free outside the contract or leave the team.

You might not like SRT, but the title of this string is "Stand Together." There are 2 issues. If this happens, is SRT going to work outside the contract, which in my opinion is screwing over the rest of the membership? And if they do walk off the team, are there going to be scabs that jump on the vacancies? If they walk off, I would hope that they all do it together. If they do, the Union needs to support their decision by not replacing them.

Also, you guys need to get out of your little clicks. The SRT members are part of this Union. That is 14 or 15 guys that we need to support and that need to support us.

The best thing they can do for themselves is to turn in their gear and say enough is enough. They deserve the pay or comp time, they spend the time to better themselves and help us as well. they sholud take a stand and we will back them.

The best thing they can do for themselves is to turn in their gear and say enough is enough. They deserve the pay or comp time, they spend the time to better themselves and help us as well. they sholud take a stand and we will back them.

I agree. I am happy that we have an SRT that we can call when we need them. I know it feels like it's not dangerous when you have a house contained and you are waiting, but anything can happen. I don't want to have to wait three hours for another agencies team to come relieve me. VIN will be a good test case. We will see how many people have the balls not to take the slots. I know a lot of people feel like they deserved the axe or that there time was coming, but the fact that they were not properly noticed is a violation of their rights under the contract. We need to stand by these guys too.

but the fact that they were not properly noticed is a violation of their rights under the contract. We need to stand by these guys too.

Which article did this violate? The contract is here: http://www.daviefop.org/cba.pdf

I may be reading it wrong, but please let us know what you think this was a violation of??

but the fact that they were not properly noticed is a violation of their rights under the contract. We need to stand by these guys too.

Which article did this violate? The contract is here: http://www.daviefop.org/cba.pdf

I may be reading it wrong, but please let us know what you think this was a violation of??

I wrote this three days ago:

"The Administration materially affected two detectives' and a sergeant's wages, hours, or terms and conditions of employment without providing "just cause." They did this by removing the three employees from VIN and placing them in a specialized unit. No reason was provided to the employees for the removal. However, it appears to be for discipline. Article 2 - Management Rights."

I also asked that you pay attention so that I don't have to keep repeating it." They did not explain to these guys why they were moving them. Therefore, they did not show "just cause." Read Article 2 on the link you sent out.

Just cause only applies when they are suspended,demoted etc...This probably doesnt apply because they will receive the same base pay (unless they dont receive the added $ for det pay). I think they got the shaft but this one will have to go to HR to be resolved.

Just cause only applies when they are suspended,demoted etc...This probably doesnt apply because they will receive the same base pay (unless they dont receive the added $ for det pay). I think they got the shaft but this one will have to go to HR to be resolved.

The transfer materially affected their hours. That means that the town has I believe 5 days to notice the FOP of the reason. No letter or notice has been given.

I think we all know the REASONS... Do we want to get into this deeper?

Sometimes the union has to act in the best interest of the whole bargaining unit. Why was KK removed from his Unit. Both were Vin and K-9. They were not for disciplinary reasons. Get real!

Sometimes the union has to act in the best interest of the whole bargaining unit. Why was KK removed from his Unit. Both were Vin and K-9. They were not for disciplinary reasons. Get real!

I have no idea what your point was on this. I think the issue is that none of these men were given an explanation as to the reason for their dismissal as they are require to by contract. I think you guys are reading this as a whole "rage against the machine/overthrow the dictatorship" type of rant. It isn't. I want the administration to adhere to the contract and make prudent decisions and I want you all to go out and be good and safe cops.

The Union isn't disrupting the harmony. They are reacting to the previously listed breaches of the contract. The Chief can move three VIN guys around with just cause. The Town had tried to fight to put a line in this contract that essentially said that the Chief can transfer people in and out of units without reason.

The Union fought that tooth and nail. They argued that the Chief could move people at will, but only with just cause. If he has just cause, then why won't he tell them what it is? There is no argument for this.

Either he has reason AND says it, or he is in violation. Why is this hard to understand?

By the way, it's "Disgusted" with a "g."

The Chief can move three VIN guys around with just cause. The Town had tried to fight to put a line in this contract that essentially said that the Chief can transfer people in and out of units without reason.

The Union fought that tooth and nail. They argued that the Chief could move people at will, but only with just cause. If he has just cause, then why won't he tell them what it is? There is no argument for this.

Either he has reason AND says it, or he is in violation. Why is this hard to understand?

By the way, it's "Disgusted" with a "g."

Dude, there is NOTHING in the contract that says moving someone out of a specialized unit requires just cause. As a matter of fact, much to the opposite, the 2nd article of the contract states that the city can run the department as it sees fit. Specificially, it states that the Chief can "suspend, demote, discharge, or take other disciplinary action against employees for just cause." They weren't suspended, demoted (a demotion is from Sgt to Ofc, or Lieutenant to Sgt - Detective is the SAME pay grade as Ofc), discharged or disciplined. Further, their wages weren't affected (they still make the same $$ per hour) and their hours weren't affected (they will work 80 or 84 hours as per agreed in the contract).. They're not entitled to assignment pay anymore because they're no longer Detectives. The ONLY case where "just cause" is mentioned in the contract is when DISCIPLINE is mentioned. Transfer from a unit to the road is not discipline. Discipline is a reprimand, suspension, or termination, per contract definition.

I'm not sure why THAT is so hard to understand....

Being in a specialized unit is not a right. It's a priveledge that the Chief can bestow on you, at his will. If tomorrow morning the Chief wakes up and says, "I don't want a Detective Bureau," guess what? He can come in and (with proper notice) send the Detectives back to the road. He can disband COP, Mounted (if we had one), K9, SRO, FTO, Traffic, VIN, etc. without any explanation. That's a MANAGEMENT RIGHT.

Does it suck? Yeah, it does. I don't understand exactly why the Chief did what he did, but you know what? I'm not the Chief. He is and he made his decision. The decision doesn't violate your "rights," and unfortunately, it's something that you'll have to deal with. About the only things you're guaranteed are that you will maintain your present rank (ofc, sgt, lt) - (unless you're disciplined, of course), present hourly pay rate, and work no more than 84 hours every two weeks (without further compensation) under the contract.

Finally, if you're going to insult someone else's spelling or grammar, check your own before you post.....

Okay. I will deal with the frivolous issue first. I'm not trying to turn these conversations into college theses, but it seemed like "discusted" was a pretty glaring mistake.

Now, on to other matters. Having your hours changed from 1500-0100 to a twelve hour work day with vastly different hours and different days , is materially affecting your hours. The length of work week is dealt with elsewhere in the contract, but you have also changed pay period from 80 hours to 84 hours. I'm not sure what constitutes a material change in hours if this doesn't.

You are correct in your statement that if the Chief were to disband a unit, he would be well within his right. However, that is not the case here. If the administration were of the opinion that management rights gives them the ability to move someone out of a specialized unit, then why did the town argue so vehemently to add a clause to the contract stating that that the Chief has sole discretion to add or remove a member from any unit? I'm paraphrasing here. This clause, did not survive negotiations. The argument offered by John Stokes was, "Management rights gives you the ability to remove someone from a unit, but you have to give them a reason." Again not an exact quote, but it's sentiment of the argument.

The current FOP president went over this at the last meeting. Without this piece of protection, the Chief could arbitrarily move any one of us. If you don't feel like this Chief would do that, then what might the next Chief do once this precedent has been established?

There is a whole area of Law that deals with the interpretation of contracts. You don't have to agree with me. However, I'm sure that the town would not allow a statement in the contract that says: UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES CAN THE CHIEF REMOVE ANY INDIVIDUAL FROM A UNIT WITHOUT A PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION, just like we wouldn't allow the Town to put in their clause. So what we now have is that they have to give just cause to change someones hours. I tend to agree with you about the special assignment pay not being a part of wages. However, money is money whether it is paid hourly, weekly or monthly, so I could see an argument for both side.

The other point would be that if they weren't removed for discipline, then why doesn't the Chief give them a reason for the removal. If they were he has to give a reason so that we know that he had just cause. If he maintains silence, are we just supposed to assume just cause?

If you screw up at work, you have right to know why you are being punished or moved. If they are just moving you, you have a right to know why that is being done as well. It is a fundamental right and it's good leadership. If it's the right decision, why hide it?

I apologize in advance for any grammatical errors that you may detect in my writing. I think that we should stay on topic. I apologize for being petty to whoever wrote "discusted." I really just didn't get his point because of the style of the rant.

[quote="Career Suicide"]Okay. I will deal with the frivolous issue first. I'm not trying to turn these conversations into college theses, but it seemed like "discusted" was a pretty glaring mistake.

Now, on to other matters. Having your hours changed from 1500-0100 to a twelve hour work day with vastly different hours and different days , is materially affecting your hours. The length of work week is dealt with elsewhere in the contract, but you have also changed pay period from 80 hours to 84 hours. I'm not sure what constitutes a material change in hours if this doesn't.

Im not disagreeing with your overall point but didnt the road hours change from 6-4/ 2-12/9-7 to 6-6/-7/7 5-5? that was a change not that many people wanted (they wanted the $) and the union just laid down on that one so why would this one be any different? I reailize that the town would have got the 12s eventually but they violate the contract all the time so why would things be any better now?

They wont because they know that they hold all the power.

I'm not all that up on exact definition of the "material change of hours" but this would seem to fall into the management making a change for the good of the department and not just changing the hours of a few members for reasons unknown. The management could - if they wanted to - say that all of our days will go from 1500-0300 or 0300 to 1500 and no one could say anything because that is their right. What they can't do is say, "I don't want you on midnights anymore. You are going to days," unless they have just cause. Moving someone from 700 to 800 is not the same, since they don't have the same number of 700 slots. The decision to change the start times is a management right.

What they can't do is say, "I don't want you on midnights anymore. You are going to days," unless they have just cause.

No, actually you're 100% wrong. They CANNOT move you for disciplinary reasons. Read the last sentence of 28.4. They CAN however move you just because they want to. 28.3 specifically says "The determination of the daily and weekly work schedules, including starting, ending, lunch and break times of unit employees shall be established by the Department and such schedules may be changed from time to time." They can make you work whatever hours and days they want, as long as it coincides with 28.1 (4/10's, 4/12,3/12, etc.). They agree to allow us to bid by seniority, but the schedules, hours, and number of officers on each shift/squad/etc. is entirely up to the department and can be changed whenever they feel it's necessary...and they don't have to tell you why they think it's necessary, either.

However, Career Suicide is right, everything is up to interpretation. The ex-VIN guys will most likely grieve the change, and we'll all see what the final determination is... I really hope they win, because it would be better for everyone in the Union. However, I don't see it happening, personally...

I guess I should have been more clear. I know that they can move around the schedule and therefore disrupt individual schedules. I'm just saying, for instance, that they can't swap a Bravo officer with an Alpha officer, just because they want to. There has to be some justification for the move. If they reduce the Alpha shift by one and increase the Bravo shift by one, then they could just move someone to days.

In case you are from another agency and are wondering, " listen to these freaking geeks." You're right. Nerdo's, midget's and rats. Davie PD is awesome.

I would like to mention that the membership came together on two issues in the last month:

Not one person attended AR-15 training on their own time.

Not one Sergeant put in for the vacated VIN spot.

People often say that we can't get our S**t together need to start to take notice. I have never seen this kind of cohesiveness from our members. Cynics will have their own explanations for these unprecedented displays of solidarity, but they can't take these victories from us.

Now everyone go watch Braveheart this weekend.

The only reason that the VIN spot wasn't applied for is because RC isn't off probation yet. If he was he would have put in for it. He has already told the SWAT team that he doesn't care what they decide, he's staying on the team and will continue to work for free and train on his own time. Also he's the only one who would be willing to work with CA in VIN, they can share some cheese together

The only reason that the VIN spot wasn't applied for is because RC isn't off probation yet. If he was he would have put in for it. He has already told the SWAT team that he doesn't care what they decide, he's staying on the team and will continue to work for free and train on his own time. Also he's the only one who would be willing to work with CA in VIN, they can share some cheese together

You're quite misinformed about what RC said to his team members, if you dont think so go ask one of them..check your facts first or continue to make your coward posts attacking guys you work with. No one is asking you to work with any of them so keep it to yourself, if some one chooses to thats their business.

I don't want to keep doing the quote thing because it starts to make the posts too long. So this is for URAMORON.

I will be honest in saying that I have no idea what RC told the team. I'm sure a lot of people wanted to put in for the VIN sergeant slot. I know that a lot of people would have trained to get the AR-15 for free. However, when the deadline arrived for both the department had no candidates for either.

I disagree that it is no one's business if someone wants to go into the vacated VIN slots. It's a little hard for us to make a point about anything if we turn a blind eye to scabs that are willing to go into a unit out of self interest. In this case, RC was not a scab even if he wanted to be. The SRT needs to deal with him on their own if something was said that went against the will of the rest of the team.

On another note, people need to lay off all of the comments about infidelity. It is not because I am a fan of the people that were married or a fan of cheating. It is because this is a public forum and the innocent parties (i.e. the spouses) can read this and be hurt or embarrassed by it. This guys wife has nothing to do with any of this.

I would like to mention that the membership came together on two issues in the last month:

Not one person attended AR-15 training on their own time.

Not one Sergeant put in for the vacated VIN spot.

People often say that we can't get our S**t together need to start to take notice. I have never seen this kind of cohesiveness from our members. Cynics will have their own explanations for these unprecedented displays of solidarity, but they can't take these victories from us.

Now everyone go watch Braveheart this weekend.

I watched it twice and I couldnt find any mention of davie pd or ar 15s. Maybe I can find it one the widescreen (insert det bureau employee) version?

I don't want to keep doing the quote thing because it starts to make the posts too long. So this is for URAMORON.

I will be honest in saying that I have no idea what RC told the team. I'm sure a lot of people wanted to put in for the VIN sergeant slot. I know that a lot of people would have trained to get the AR-15 for free. However, when the deadline arrived for both the department had no candidates for either.

I disagree that it is no one's business if someone wants to go into the vacated VIN slots. It's a little hard for us to make a point about anything if we turn a blind eye to scabs that are willing to go into a unit out of self interest. In this case, RC was not a scab even if he wanted to be. The SRT needs to deal with him on their own if something was said that went against the will of the rest of the team.

On another note, people need to lay off all of the comments about infidelity. It is not because I am a fan of the people that were married or a fan of cheating. It is because this is a public forum and the innocent parties (i.e. the spouses) can read this and be hurt or embarrassed by it. This guys wife has nothing to do with any of this.


SPOUSES ARENT OFF LIMITS..... CA BROUGHT HIS GIRLFRIENDS AROUND ALL OF US AND FLAUNTED IT!!! HE DIDNT CARE, WHY SHUOULD WE? AND AS FOR MD....HES FAR FROM INNOCENT..ARE YOU?

"He didn't care, why should we?" What's wrong with you? You don't have to cry yourself to sleep over it, but since when is it all right to gratuitously hurt an innocent person just because someone else did first?

You clearly feel like you're justified in attacking this man for his apparent lack of integrity and compassion. Why don't you demonstrate your superiority over him by showing some integrity and compassion of your own?

"He didn't care, why should we?" What's wrong with you? You don't have to cry yourself to sleep over it, but since when is it all right to gratuitously hurt an innocent person just because someone else did first?

You clearly feel like you're justified in attacking this man for his apparent lack of integrity and compassion. Why don't you demonstrate your superiority over him by showing some integrity and compassion of your own?

Can we get back to the important issues?
I doubt the wives are crying themselves to sleep....
Lets get back to the issues.....
How is the truth about Md and CA attacking them? They flaunted there affairs, we didnt. The truth hurts who?

If you are a guy, you should lose your Man Card for even caring about another guy's affair. If you are a woman, you should be ashamed for providing fodder to the two harpies that enabled the cheating and now hate these guys.

What man obsesses over whether or not two guys had affairs on their wives? The answer is that they don't. Women worry about these things...sometimes. So if you are a man, start acting like one. If you are a woman, then worry about your own man cheating on you.

In my opinion, these men did nothing wrong to any of us.

Hey, I have an admission: I look at porn. Why don't you all get your pitchforks and torches, find out who I am and come burn my house to the ground.

If you are a guy, you should lose your Man Card for even caring about another guy's affair. If you are a woman, you should be ashamed for providing fodder to the two harpies that enabled the cheating and now hate these guys.

What man obsesses over whether or not two guys had affairs on their wives? The answer is that they don't. Women worry about these things...sometimes. So if you are a man, start acting like one. If you are a woman, then worry about your own man cheating on you.

In my opinion, these men did nothing wrong to any of us.

Hey, I have an admission: I look at porn. Why don't you all get your pitchforks and torches, find out who I am and come burn my house to the ground.



So true....lmao :lol: Just drop the cheating issue...its old news.
There wives didnt care, so why should we? Maybe its a guy writing because hes jealous, he didnt get piad to cheat.. End the affair issue!

MAYBE ONE OF YOU GUYS IS IN LOVE WITH EITHER MD OR CA, JUST COME OUT THE CLOSET AND CONFRONT THEM. BE AN HONEST HORE, DO NOT BE AFRAID. ALL YOUFAGS THAT CONTINUE WITH THIS HORSE CRAP SHOULD REALLYGOAND GET A 9-5 SO THAT ALL OF YOU CAN TALK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE ALL DAY. IF NOT START LOOKING AFTER YOURSELF AND EACH OTHER, IT WILL BE BETTER IN THE LONG RUN.

OK. I WILL COME OUT AND SAY IT..IT ISS ME GENE

Hey, I have an admission: I look at porn. Why don't you all get your pitchforks and torches, find out who I am and come burn my house to the ground.

Uh ok... Bob Slone?

Hey, I have an admission: I look at porn. Why don't you all get your pitchforks and torches, find out who I am and come burn my house to the ground.

Uh ok... Bob Slone?

You're right. Slone must have been some total degenerate to look at porn. This is America. The Founding Fathers risked all that they had so that you and I could have affairs and look at porn. Have a little respect. I have to look at porn. It's not like I'm Chance Ransom or something.

[quote="Frankenstein Monster":3rwvopyt]

Hey, I have an admission: I look at porn. Why don't you all get your pitchforks and torches, find out who I am and come burn my house to the ground.

Uh ok... Bob Slone?

You're right. Slone must have been some total degenerate to look at porn. This is America. The Founding Fathers risked all that they had so that you and I could have affairs and look at porn. Have a little respect. I have to look at porn. It's not like I'm Chance Ransom or something.[/quote:3rwvopyt]

wrong everyone looks at llyods wesbite when they have downtime

[quote="Frankenstein Monster":3cbl6kew]

Hey, I have an admission: I look at porn. Why don't you all get your pitchforks and torches, find out who I am and come burn my house to the ground.

Uh ok... Bob Slone?

You're right. Slone must have been some total degenerate to look at porn. This is America. The Founding Fathers risked all that they had so that you and I could have affairs and look at porn. Have a little respect. I have to look at porn. It's not like I'm Chance Ransom or something.

wrong everyone looks at llyods wesbite when they have downtime[/quote:3cbl6kew]


Hey you guys should take MD and Ca wives out, its not like the :lol: y are home. They are at there girlfriends house or Roundup!! :lol:
Chance Ransom is the MAN!!!

When will we be going back to the old way we did meetings where we just ate pizza and talked about one another?

Yeah..Where is 21u 818 when we need him...I used to do contracts...bla,bla,bla...Now all I do is try and pick up EVERY woman that works here,even though none of them like me...

Yeah..Where is 21u 818 when we need him...I used to do contracts...bla,bla,bla...Now all I do is try and pick up EVERY woman that works here,even though none of them like me...

Is U818 in need of a Wingman. Who could possibly help him? This sounds like a job for Chance Ransom.

[MENTAL HOSPITAL]

WHATR U ALL FIGHTING ABOUIT?

Yeah..Where is 21u 818 when we need him...I used to do contracts...bla,bla,bla...Now all I do is try and pick up EVERY woman that works here,even though none of them like me...

Is U818 in need of a Wingman. Who could possibly help him? This sounds like a job for Chance Ransom.

His sandals are his wingman

OK that answered who sandals boy was. Now, who is hottie?