Practical ways to save money w/o affecting morale

The figures are in! The most logical and sensible way to save the department money----------

* Do away with youth services and crime prevention {do we really need the DARE program and neighborhood watch meetings? we can train and outsource certain tasks to willing volunteers} And arent there Explorer advisors who volunteer their time away from patrol anyway? they could handle the Explorer Post

* Victims Advocate unit should also be discontinued. We can outsource that to the SAO or Sheriff's Dept. That would provide another salary for an extra patrol officer position -- which is what we really need --more help out here on the road

* Training Unit only needs one person probably not two. When the hell was the last time we actually did training anyway -- again another helping hand on the road.

* Planning and Research -- well,, whatever.

* Outsource the communications center to the countywide dispatch system.

Sal your an idiot,

*First of all if your so quick to shatcan our victim advocate, you haven't ever worked a serious case where a victim was in need of services-- perhaps you should stop doing so many x50's and be available for that sig50 in your zone. For those of us that have been around more than 1 year, we know how important it is to have our victim advocate. Just standby, there was a long period of time where we did not have one.

*Second, the PD just had a 10 hour training session yesterday

*Third, communications might have their issues but having our own diffently benefits everyone, if you really would like to know ask some of the veteran officers who were here when we did not have our own dispatch.

*Finally, why don't you just "outsource" yourself someplace else. Your only solution was to "outsource". What, did you just learn that power word yesterday and decide to include it in your limited vocabulary?

One final note- the advisors for the explorer post are compensated for their duties. You really should know more about your department.

The IRS

That was great....."outsource yourself"......another way of saying "If you don't like it here....just leave." I agree with IRS that Sal is an idiot, I just think it's amazing that every single response on this board has to incorporate the same "just leave" rhetoric.

(Sal is on the point with #1 #3 and #4 though)

Why is he an idiot? Every officer is a victim advocate. Anyone can hand out a free 211 card or refer someone to services. Bring the 40K a year back to the road!

and replace that take home with a new crown vic so that we have enough back up cars

Popeye thats to funny. I agree though. Trim the top. Alot less hassles and a lot less traps they set to try and climb that crowded ladder.

To Sal's Auditor,

Your right each officer is in their own right a victim advocate. But you obviously need a refresher in what our advocate does if you think it is just handing out a "211" card. Suggestion- why don't you find out about all the resources our advocate can/does provide and then we can debate the issue again. I would hate for you to come on this site and sound ignorant.

To Sal's chauffer,

Why don't you wait until you get off probation before you start knocking the take home cars. They are a huge benefit for the City, citizens, and officers who have them.

Rember to file before 4/15/2008.

The IRS.

u guys are 2 much!!

You want to make some suggestions on ways to save money, thats fine. However, be prepared to back up your claims and accusations.

The Captain that you joking belittle in your post has done more to improve working conditions in this agency in the past seven years than likely anyone else currently employed here.

I wouldn't expect you to know because you two were likely not here seven years ago during the prior administration. You obviously have some ax to grind with this particular person for some transgretion you obviously feel he has made towards you. Please do not speak for me. I whole heartedly disagree with you.

You want to make suggestions to cut things, that is great, lets debate it. Be professional and do it the spirit of truly trying to bring up good ideas. Have some facts and figures to back your arguments, do some research. Make sugguestions for improvements that can be rallied behind not riddiculed and cussed at from the other side of the computer screen.

No one is perfect. Not you, Not I, and not our administration. However, I do feel they try there best to make our agency the best around not only for us but our citizens. I think you, as do I, likely try and do that also.

If the tax payers of Pinellas Park truly want services cut, then our Chief and her staff make those decisions on what gets cut. We don't have to like every decision but we should respect their position to be the one who gets to make it.

Whew! That was one hell of a read. Wimpy spinach now!

lets look at the wasted money and positions at this pd and eliminate from there.
do we we need 3 capt positions? can 2 do the same tasks?

what do the Lt's do except wander the building? get rid of those useless positions

the corporals- the biggest waste of money we have! does it take all these supervisors to read the same amount of reports we have? have the amount of reports taken increased since we didn't have 3 bosses for each officer? 7% more for doing 95% less work sounds like a good idea to me. dump this abortion project and let's save some $. why do we need to have a shift with 5 supervisors and 5 officers on the road. good try with putting the corporals on the minimum manpower to make the shift look heavy, nobody to buying the bull you are feeding us

give the swat callouts to the SO and scrap the team, which never gets called out. how much do we spend on training and equipment for a unit that never gets used?

dump the crime prevention, youth services, planning and research, and 1 training officer

make the take home car available to rookies only after they have completed 2 yrs of service with the agency. if you fail a car inspection ( dirty car, no gas, evidence filled), you lose it for 6 months. i thought supervisors were supposed to check these out? i haven't had an inspection on my cruiser in months

dump the homeless program- the homeless are killing each other off faster ever since this program came into our city and since the hobo camp popped up on 126. why should we pay to give these dirtbags trips across the country, just to have them return when their families are tired of their drunk butts

get rid of the bicycle and motorcycles. put the officers back in patrol. the bike officers are useless in those positions (shaking down homeless bums) and how many more tickets can a motorcycle officer write than a patrol officer. make ALL the traffic units actually take S4's so officers can shag real calls

i hope some of these cost saving ideas will be put into place and we can rise from the mold and ashes of our PD, like a phoenix coachroach.

chief, i hope you or the head capt read this and realize this PD is in serious trouble and we only have the admin to blame. cut all these wasted positions and let's make our agency into a real police unit. if history repeats itself, we will create a Major position, with a huge salary and none of these suggestions will be answered

I always wondered what a chess board pawn might say if it had a chance to talk........

Alice-

You sound like a extermist, why don't you start a revolution? Maybe if you were in charge everyone would be in paradise with 50 virgins. I'm willing to bet that your a minimum performing employee that does not take responsibility for his/her actions and blames everything they do on someone else.

Movie trivia-
Fill in the blank and name the movie?
"You know how I know your _ _ _?"

Correction-

please change "extermist" to "extremist". Or you could input terrorist.

Thank you.

Well you certainly have many ideas. Let's discuss the list. No bashing, discuss as rational professionals shall we.


lets look at the wasted money and positions at this pd and eliminate from there.
do we we need 3 capt positions? can 2 do the same tasks?

We probably could, and when one of the Captain's retires, we just might. However, do you really dislike any of our Commanders so much that you advocate a reduction in rank or forced retirement? After all they are now at will employees. The fact is that several years ago the Chief asked that the structure of the Department which has grown over the past ten years from approximately 75 officers to 102 include an upgrade of a Lt's position to a third Captain's position. For the exact explanation, see her but her rationale was good enough to get the approval of the City Manager and five city council members. The question that will remain unanswered would be if we as agency would be as effective with two Captains as opposed to three. For the officers who have no idea what administrators do, you will easily answer yes. However, the one that truly counts is the Chief of Police. If she feels the agency is better with three, then let her keep the staff she needs to be the best.


what do the Lt's do except wander the building? get rid of those useless positions

While I will reserve my opinion on this, I have heard several in a variety of ranks echo your opinion on this particular topic. However, I will point out that most professional agencies our size utilize LT's as Shift Commanders (as we do) and I think rather than eliminate that philosophy, perhaps Command Staff could truly help this situation by analyzing what the LT’s are actually doing and educating the rank and file of what the positions are designed and asked to do. I think the positions need to stay.


the corporals- the biggest waste of money we have! does it take all these supervisors to read the same amount of reports we have? have the amount of reports taken increased since we didn't have 3 bosses for each officer? 7% more for doing 95% less work sounds like a good idea to me. dump this abortion project and let's save some $. why do we need to have a shift with 5 supervisors and 5 officers on the road. good try with putting the corporals on the minimum manpower to make the shift look heavy, nobody to buying the bull you are feeding us

Ok, I will admit that on first glance, the addition of Lt's and Corporals may give a sensation of being top heavy. The reality is back in the 90’s, I believe we had 2 Captain’s, 2 Lt’s, 10 Sgt’s and unlimited Master Police Officers who made 10% for very little required. That has changed to 3 Captains, 3 Lt’s, 12 Sergeants, and 10 Corporals who only make 7% and actually have responsibilities. Even MPO’s were expected to assist with supervision of less experienced road officers at the time, a little but not that much different than the current Corporals. The difference in Sergeants is one now supervises Records and one was created to supervise Communications or Code Enforcement, I can’t remember. (Both were supervised for a period by Sergeants at one point since the late 90’s) Both of those positions in the 90’s were civilians. The only new top positions since that time are one Captain and one LT. MPO’s have since changed to SPO and now to Corporals and there are fewer of them. During that same time of adding only 2 supervisors, the agency has grown from approximately 75 officers to 102. That doesn’t seem to far fetched to me. However, I look at the Corporals from a different perspective. The addition of the Corporal positions should be looked at by Officers as 10 additional opportunities for specialized assignment and additional mobility inside of the agency. What you advocate is a 7% pay decrease for 10% of our agency. However, I would venture a guess you yourself would cry foul if another officer advocated a 7% pay decrease for you. Let's get to the meat of the problem. Senior officers do not like answering to junior officers who are Corporals. I would like to remind all 7+ year officers, they are eligible to take the test and if they choose not to, live with your decision. Many who complain of this program are officers who are not eligible due to poor performance or Senior officers who do not desire the responsibility but resent the less experienced officers who take it. I think the Corporal program is building future Sergeants. It is certainly giving us all insight into how they would operate as Sergeants. Some are likely cementing their futures as Corporals or lower. I will however concede that Corporals should not count for minimum staffing requirements if they are not going to be held responsible for handling primary on calls for service during the non-overlap periods.


give the swat callouts to the SO and scrap the team, which never gets called out. how much do we spend on training and equipment for a unit that never gets used?

Once again, I would see why you might jump to that conclusion. Let's talk through it. You advocate giving up one the highest liability areas to the control of an agency who (no offense) that has a reputation for being heavy handed. If a SWAT encounter utilizing PCSO SWAT were to break bad, our agency and City can still be held liable. If I understand the issue correctly, the plaintiff would need legislative approval in order to sue the Sheriff for more than $100,000. That likely would have to come with a claim of gross negligence which is hard to prove. However, the call to activate SWAT and the call to use SWAT would still rest with the Chief of the Police. Pinellas Park could still be sued for the actions of the Sheriff's office even though we do not control the actions of the individual deputies who would be working in our city. A moderate suit due to the actions of another agency's officers could cost the city millions and to me is not worth it. If we are going to risk a suit through SWAT operations, I would rather it be due to our mistake rather than someone else’s. Other issues involved are the slippery slope of consolidation once you give up another Service to PCSO. Finally on this particular issue, I like the fact that we have officers who serve with us on the street who are some the best tacticians in the county and state. Further, those officers are armed with .223's and other weapons that can be used and readily available if an emergency situation arises before the whole team can activate and deploy. There is nothing better than SWAT operators showing up on a felony traffic stop and seeing the long guns deploy. There is a sense of control that comes from their presence. That officer safety is priceless.


dump the crime prevention, youth services, planning and research, and 1 training officer

If push comes to shove and we have to cut services and programs due to the voice of the taxpayers due to amendment one, I would agree with your conclusion on this point. These positions should be cut prior to any cuts from the road. However, each of these positions serves a purpose and does a job for the agency, city, and our community. We do not become a better agency being leaner and not offering non-traditional law enforcement programs and services. We become isolated with our community and again lose specialty assignments for patrol officers to rotate in to. Patrol officers would then begin to complain that Pinellas Park had little opportunity for variety of assignments.


make the take home car available to rookies only after they have completed 2 yrs of service with the agency. if you fail a car inspection ( dirty car, no gas, evidence filled), you lose it for 6 months. i thought supervisors were supposed to check these out? i haven't had an inspection on my cruiser in months

If we have to make cuts in the program then let's discuss what we need to do at that point. As of right now, my understanding is that the majority of council is still behind the current city policy as mandated cuts are being made in other areas. Officers hired over the past year have been hired with the understanding that a car would be provided (if available) after one year not two. Any new recruiting would certainly be hindered by an increase of the policy from one year to two. As the 10th highest paid agency in the county, we need better incentives to find and keep qualified candidates, not make it more difficult. It does not appear that we will go a full year without needing to hire new officers as we are not facing deep cuts like PCSO and other agencies. We very well may need to hire officers due to attrition and we still want to be able to find quality candidates. Keep the cars the way they are.


dump the homeless program- the homeless are killing each other off faster ever since this program came into our city and since the hobo camp popped up on 126. why should we pay to give these dirtbags trips across the country, just to have them return when their families are tired of their drunk butts

An attempt at humor buried within a plausible idea. Certainly if cuts are required, this would be yet another program that should be considered prior to cuts of road personnel. However, if you are a resident of the city or business owner along our major routes, you may have a different, non-comedic take on the homeless issues of our city. According to members of those communities, the H.O.T. has made an impact and is seeing positive results. If you haven't noticed positive results then you are blind. If possible, I say keep the program.


get rid of the bicycle and motorcycles. put the officers back in patrol. the bike officers are useless in those positions (shaking down homeless bums) and how many more tickets can a motorcycle officer write than a patrol officer. make ALL the traffic units actually take S4's so officers can shag real calls

As long as the right officers are selected for these assignments, these assignments are assets to the agency and should be kept just as they are. Motorcycles are harder to spot than marked patrol units and crown victorias. They absolutely can and monthly do, write more tickets on the motors than ANY "Patrol" officer. If I hear you correctly, you are too busy handling all of your calls for service to do traffic enforcement anyway, which annually is the biggest complaint of citizens in the City on the annual survey. So if "Patrol" is too busy to do it then I suppose we should keep traffic officers in Special Operations to do it. Traffic officers daily take crash reports from patrol to free patrol officers up. I am beginning to wonder if you actually work here. You likely do, you are just seeking things to complain about. I know I said no bashing at the beginning of this post, however, as we discuss each of your points, it is becoming harder and harder not to point out that you apparently are one of the FEW disgruntled officers running around this agency. Forgive my little bash session. I will try and refrain from additional comments of this nature.

chief, i hope you or the head capt read this and realize this PD is in serious trouble and we only have the admin to blame. cut all these wasted positions and let's make our agency into a real police unit. if history repeats itself, we will create a Major position, with a huge salary and none of these suggestions will be answered

I also hope that the Chief and Command Staff read this and realize that what I believe to be the vast majority of officers (all but a few) who work here, support the leadership and agency and enjoy working here. That doesn't mean that we don't think there is room for improvement. We should be constantly discussing with all employees, opportunities to make improvements. We know we are facing serious challenges due to our contract status, amendment one, and other issues and hope that the Command Staff STAYS MOTIVATED, as they have for the past eight years, to rise to the occasion and fight for us.

In my head a city of 50,000 people has its own police department and all the components necessary to operate a police department successfully. SWAT is one of them, and special units that run special programs are all part of a professional successful police department. Each program and component should be reviewed annually to determine if it is successful and changes or cuts should be made accordingly. However, if you are going to be in the police game, play to win, we shouldn’t rely on PCSO or any other agency to protect and serve our citizens. That is our job. And yes I dare say, our officers should either be proud to wear this badge or go find an agency that they would be proud to serve.

Stay Safe. See you at the next call.

1. Entirely too much time on your hands...

2. If you spent that much time crafting your work and police reports as you did your little poem, you might actually go places in your career. Instead, you are bitter and such a sad, sad, little police officer.

3. Just like a coward. When you have no facts to back up your point, you just go straight to insults and sniping. You are the worst of the worst. At least we can normally see our enemy coming at us in front. You, we have to worry about behind us. Cowardice. Sad Sad little boy.

4. If you got the guts, why don't you tell us what makes you so bitter about the Captain. Of course then you would have to tell us what you got in trouble for and you would be pig piled cause you most likely deserve what you got. But you just feel good about yourself. We will label you the Pinellas Park Sniper. A little terrorist. A sad, sad little terrorist.

4. I kinda liked Robin Williams as Popeye.

Bye the way, I do appreciate my huge promotion you have given me by making me a Captain for posting my previous comments. I will however accept the compliment.

I still await your crafty responses. If the Captain is Popeye. Can I be Batman. I mean I do have the nifty belt full of gear already.

I will need a Boy Wonder though. You may qualify, you are a sad sad little boy. Na, never mind, you got no skills. Even Boy Wonder had some mad skills.

Reload sniper boy, we await your next attempt.

1. Entirely too much time on your hands...

2. If you spent that much time crafting your work and police reports as you did your little poem, you might actually go places in your career. Instead, you are bitter and such a sad, sad, little police officer.

3. Just like a coward. When you have no facts to back up your point, you just go straight to insults and sniping. You are the worst of the worst. At least we can normally see our enemy coming at us in front. You, we have to worry about behind us. Cowardice. Sad Sad little boy.

4. If you got the guts, why don't you tell us what makes you so bitter about the Captain. Of course then you would have to tell us what you got in trouble for and you would be pig piled cause you most likely deserve what you got. But you just feel good about yourself. We will label you the Pinellas Park Sniper. A little terrorist. A sad, sad little terrorist.

4. I kinda liked Robin Williams as Popeye.

Terrorists? Snipers??? Dude youve been playing with your G.I. Joes a little too much. Have mommy put them up for the day along with the lincoln logs. How dramatic. Are you posting from Iraq or the Park? We're trying to discuss ways to save $$$ around here and the fact is we are top heavy. If the Captain discussed is who I think he is, well lets just say there's been alot of favoroitism if your his guys. If not, your screwed and he has the screwdriver. We can all agree on that, well anyone that isn't in his loop.

Once again, retoric, no facts.

No surprising however...

First, its the Chief who makes all the selections for the "LOOP" you speak of. You could always go ask her, but you won't sniper boy.

Why don't you count all the different officers who have made special units, special assignments, advanced training schools, received commendations since he was promoted to the rank of Captain since you think all goes through him. The list would be very, very long. As opposed to apparently the time he peed in your Wheaties.

If being able to do your job professionally is part of being in the loop, then please, count me in. But wow, that is one heck of a large loop. Heck, it might even be a hoop. Oops...did a little poetry come out of me.

Missed again sniper boy.

Missed? Nah...bullseye. Obviously hit a nerve there. Spinach anyone?

No I am fine, Batman lives. No nerve damage my friend.

An exhange of insults is not my style and frankly I have better things to do. However, if you wish to debate budget cuts or wish to lie on the leo affairs couch and explain to us what the Captain has done to cause you such pain, perhaps we can get to the root of what is causing you such anquish.

I await a well thought out arguement or explanation.

:lol: amusing exchange. gotta love it when admin jumps in the mosh pit w/ the troops and gets a little dirty. I detect an odor of insecurity though///

I like a good debate...However....less personal attacks...more substance.

As far as the admin talk....you think you know who this is. You are mistaken. When you return to work, if you are still employed here....you will hear some news and realize the likelyhood that the person you thought you were debating likely had a bigger issue come up and was probably not sitting in front of his computer today.

I will let you put it together though.

Geez POPEYE, quit trying to act like you are somebody else.
I think SNIPER BOY has you in his crosshairs, direct hit.

"Why don't you count all the different officers who have made special units, special assignments, advanced training schools, received commendations since he was promoted to the rank of Captain since you think all goes through him."

Your post should read:

" Why don't you count all the different officers who have made special units, special assignments, advanced training schools, received commendations since I was promoted to the rank of Captain since you think all goes through ME."

BTW, since you seem to like using comic book characters, I know that nobody around here has ever thought of you as CAPTAIN MARVEL. You look like POPEYE but maybe, we should change your name to AMBUSH BUG. He was an old comic book character who:

...suffers from mental problems that prevent him from truly understanding reality around him...

from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambush_Bug

Sounds just like you.

NO FACTS NO SUBSTANCE = NO POINTS

I like a good debate...However....less personal attacks...more substance.

As far as the admin talk....you think you know who this is. You are mistaken. When you return to work, if you are still employed here....you will hear some news and realize the likelyhood that the person you thought you were debating likely had a bigger issue come up and was probably not sitting in front of his computer today.

I will let you put it together though.

Put this together. You've made some enemies and enjoy holding some of us back. So Sad. Sorry I offended you. You have my permission to get the dolls and logs back out so it will relieve you of computer duty, ya know the "bigger issue". DISMISSED.

Put this together. You've made some enemies and enjoy holding some of us back. So Sad. Sorry I offended you. You have my permission to get the dolls and logs back out so it will relieve you of computer duty, ya know the "bigger issue". DISMISSED

Did you sit on the therapy couch? You at least put your leg on it. We got a little out of you....Are you being held back? Who's the little boy who is being held back...

NO FACTS - NO SUBSTANCE = NO POINTS

IF I COULD INTERVENE HERE I BELIEVE THE POST HERE IS ABOUT COST CUTTING MEASUURES. LIKE IT OR NOT PREVIOUS POSTERS HAVE MADE A GOOD POINT ON THERE BEING TO MUCH BRASS HERE. I AGREE WE DON'T NEED 3 CAPTAINS AND GO DOWN (2) AND SOME USELESS SGTS. COULD BE CUT ALSO. MAKE US A LEANER MORE EFFECTIVE DEPT. EVERYONE WORKS AND NO ONE SKATES.

What duties do the ones that you propose cutting currently have and who would you propose take those over those duties or what duties do you propose get cut.

If those making the suggestions for cuts don't have a clue what these people do on a daily basis then isn't it a little useless to make these type of suggestions without knowing truth and facts.

All I am asking is that people know the facts before making these judgements. Those that don't are doing nothing but harm and not aiding in the discussion. A personal attack with no facts is simply a personal attack. That is useless.

I may be able to agree with your proposed cuts, but they have to be based on some type of fact. What are the facts as you see them?

If we took everyone's advice on this post we would cut Captains, Lt's, Sgt's, Corporals, Bikes, Motors, Homeless Outreach, Crime Prevention, Youth Detectives, A Training Officer and Planning and Research.

That would leave us with Patrol, K-9, Traffic, CIS, and Vice.

That is what we call a 100% reactive department. I thnk that went out of professional policing back in the 80's.

We can't do better than this.

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/7/78/Popeye.jpg

I disagree. There are alot of administrative types "wandering" the halls as another poster put it. We are not that big of a department and there are too many chiefs and not enough indians. We in fact can do better by trimming some of the "fat" or "dead weight" (all high paid) around here and we wouldn't be in the crunch we are concerning the budget. I am not the only one who thinks that way either. Trust me.

I am sure you are not the only one who thinks this.

However, what is becoming apparent is that those who think this can't articulate any fact other than "it seems" or "I think".

How about the job they do is irrelevant and then give some reason based in fact as to why you think that. If the job they do is irrelevant and or the program or division they manage is non effective then lets cut. But the cuts should be based on ineffectiveness founded in fact, not what some patrol officer thinks based on their experience which is likely not as great as the person that they are suggesting be cut.

This whole debate is about to be for not anyway.

Thanks to the person posting the personal attacks.

This whole thread I am sure will soon be deleted.

If the cuts were made, the remaining administrators would have to multi-task. I'm sure they are talented and competent enough to do that. A little more work would make the day go faster and less people draining the coffee fund for lack of having anything else better to do.

This whole debate is about to be for not anyway.

Thanks to the person posting the personal attacks.

This whole thread I am sure will soon be deleted.

Gee whiz, go cry for god sake. What personal attack? I'm sure you'll see to it this gets deleted. Oh well, who cares really?

This whole debate is about to be for not anyway.

Thanks to the person posting the personal attacks.

This whole thread I am sure will soon be deleted.

Why would this be deleted? No violations of terms of use. No names mentioned. A spirited debate that spun into two people who obviously have a probelm with each other trading insults and a little creative art. So what. No harm no foul, I say. Both had valid points in my opinion.

If the cuts were made, the remaining administrators would have to multi-task. I'm sure they are talented and competent enough to do that. A little more work would make the day go faster and less people draining the coffee fund for lack of having anything else better to do.

Thanks for this little gem of a quote. I suppose when the cuts are made that effect patrol, then I am sure we are all talented enough and competent enought to multi task as well. I mean really, handling more calls makes the day go faster and it will be less officers x56ing and drinking coffee for lack of having anything else to do. We may even have to take calls when our relief shift comes on. Oh my.

Why would this be deleted? No violations of terms of use. No names mentioned.

Ther Terms of Use specifically say that this is not a slam site. There is no requirement that names be used in order to be deleted. The simple ability to use deduction to figure out who they are speaking about allows the MOD to delete the string.

I agree, this will likely be deleted.

PROBABLY TAKING A WELL DESERVED NAP. ITS BEEN A LONG TOUGH DAY, YOU KNOW...

http://www.easyjournal.com/files/images/16550.gif

Johnny....Johnny is that you.....

You haven't stayed away long...

If the cuts were made, the remaining administrators would have to multi-task. I'm sure they are talented and competent enough to do that. A little more work would make the day go faster and less people draining the coffee fund for lack of having anything else better to do.

Thanks for this little gem of a quote. I suppose when the cuts are made that effect patrol, then I am sure we are all talented enough and competent enought to multi task as well. I mean really, handling more calls makes the day go faster and it will be less officers x56ing and drinking coffee for lack of having anything else to do. We may even have to take calls when our relief shift comes on. Oh my.

Hey Einstein, 1st of all it's A ffect, secondly I didn't mention patrol, just the top heavy administration. Read the post. Oh my.

Thanks for my typo correction. I suppose my one letter mistype made it difficult for you to read the entire point.

I know you didn't mention patrol, um, I just changed the group we were talking about to show you how tarded you sounded. Oh, I'm sorry, I should have spelled it retarded. Oh my!

Thanks for my typo correction. I suppose my one letter mistype made it difficult for you to read the entire point.

I know you didn't mention patrol, um, I just changed the group we were talking about to show you how tarded you sounded. Oh, I'm sorry, I should have spelled it retarded. Oh my!

You must be one of the hundreds of "staff" we have around here to supervise our 30 officers. Sorry if you feel a little threatened with the budget cuts and all. I'm needed to get out there and do the work. They may discover all you have to do is drink coffee, eat donuts, take 4 hr. lunch breaks errrr marathons and watch porn on your city computer. Ohhhhhhh, myyyyyyy.

"You must be one of the hundreds of "staff" we have around here to supervise our 30 officers. Sorry if you feel a little threatened with the budget cuts and all. I'm needed to get out there and do the work. They may discover all you have to do is drink coffee, eat donuts, take 4 hr. lunch breaks errrr marathons and watch porn on your city computer. Ohhhhhhh, myyyyyyy."

PORN, no way! Did you guys bring Capt. Hempel back? If so, I comming back. Porn rules. Long live porn.

You want to discuss things like a rational professional, I will be monitoring. If you want to continue to throw insults over this board while you smile and wave to everyone's face in the hall's as if you are just a good little trooper, then that is fine also. Do a little research and come prepared to do intellectual battle. I will be waiting. Perhaps you might even make some valid points.

Stay safe, a fret not, when x24 is called, I will come a running. I may not agree with you brother, but a brother you still are. Even if you are a little misguided brother.....

:P

You want to discuss things like a rational professional, I will be monitoring. If you want to continue to throw insults over this board while you smile and wave to everyone's face in the hall's as if you are just a good little trooper, then that is fine also. Do a little research and come prepared to do intellectual battle. I will be waiting. Perhaps you might even make some valid points.

Stay safe, a fret not, when x24 is called, I will come a running. I may not agree with you brother, but a brother you still are. Even if you are a little misguided brother.....

:P

Misguided? Why? Because I'm not part of the click? I will always have the back of everyone who wears this uniform. No one has complained about that...WE just don't understand why a little old man that wants to make our life difficult and then piss on us and tell us its raining will deny our chances of advancement. Get it?

You want to discuss things like a rational professional, I will be monitoring. If you want to continue to throw insults over this board while you smile and wave to everyone's face in the hall's as if you are just a good little trooper, then that is fine also. Do a little research and come prepared to do intellectual battle. I will be waiting. Perhaps you might even make some valid points.

Stay safe, a fret not, when x24 is called, I will come a running. I may not agree with you brother, but a brother you still are. Even if you are a little misguided brother.....

:P

Misguided? Why? Because I'm not part of the click? I will always have the back of everyone who wears this uniform. No one has complained about that...WE just don't understand why a little old man that wants to make our life difficult and then piss on us and tell us its raining will deny our chances of advancement. Get it?

No, I don't. Honestly, I no longer care to. I have asked you and your WE's to explain your positions. All you can say is this person is this and that person is that, you are mistreated, held back from achieving career goals, blah, blah, blah but none of you WE's have yet to utter one example or instance for the rest of who are apparently in the loop or click, posse, or whatever else you would like to call it. I think the term is agency. We are in the agency, you are on a branch. Maybe its just me on the branch and the We's are the agency, I don't know. But then you state there is a click and loop which indicates I can't be by myself on the branch. Perhaps there are others on the branch with me, I am not clear. Hell, what are we even talking about again. Oh yeah, you want to cut all positions in the agency but patrol. A lean mean fighting machine I guess. Well I am paraphrasing a bit but I think that is the meat of it. I disagree and your lack of ingenuity bores me.

Comic book conversation was so much more fun.

I see alot of supervisors posting on this string. Everyone wants to bash the opinions of others, but not one Corp, Sgt, LT, or Capt has come on here and defended what they do to justify their postion. A blind person could see this agency is way to top heavy with supervisors and admin. Just ask the patrol guys who get "forced" to work OT shift coverage when someone calls in sick or someone takes a vacation day. Sorry, but Corps should not count as manpower for the road, especially when only a certain few actually help out, while the others make their dinner plans with the LT. Keep taking away benefits from us and continue to manage this place into the ground and you will see the results. I'm just trying to make PPPD a better place to work, so please don't start with calling me the angry, sub-standard, lazy, etc officer. You would be surprised to know the well respected, busy, positive officers have issues also and they do post on here.

I see alot of supervisors posting on this string. Everyone wants to bash the opinions of others, but not one Corp, Sgt, LT, or Capt has come on here and defended what they do to justify their postion. A blind person could see this agency is way to top heavy with supervisors and admin. Just ask the patrol guys who get "forced" to work OT shift coverage when someone calls in sick or someone takes a vacation day. Sorry, but Corps should not count as manpower for the road, especially when only a certain few actually help out, while the others make their dinner plans with the LT. Keep taking away benefits from us and continue to manage this place into the ground and you will see the results. I'm just trying to make PPPD a better place to work, so please don't start with calling me the angry, sub-standard, lazy, etc officer. You would be surprised to know the well respected, busy, positive officers have issues also and they do post on here.

Kudo's...I see alot of supervisors on this thread also. I and others are not stupid. If we get to specific with our gripes then you are able to pick us out and make things even more difficult. Thats another problem with having too much brass. Phones were ringing off the hook yesterday morning. Why do you think this post took off the way it did and in such a heated manner?

Notice how a particular Captain tried to flush out one of the posters by calling him a sad little boy, sad this, sad that. Like we haven't heard you use those phrases like thousands of times in the past. Face it. You have a morale problem here whether you like it or not.

I agree. The bottom line is that any cuts should start from the top down. There is TOO MUCH BRASS NOT PULLING THEIR WEIGHT around here. We have eyes. We see it DAILY. We are trying to be constructive and have our voices heard. We obviously cannot identify ourselves because of the repercussions which would result. :cop: [/i]

[quote="IRS"]Sal your an idiot,


*Third, communications might have their issues but having our own diffently benefits everyone, if you really would like to know ask some of the veteran officers who were here when we did not have our own dispatch.

Wow, some senior guys have a diffrent story. !!!!!!!!!! GET YOUT FACTS RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

the eye was right, none of the supervisors can justify their title or position. keep it simple, stupid

We should have 102 patrol officers.

No supervisors, no administrators, just officers doing whatever we want whenever we want. That would be great. After all the world revolves around us. Whatever we need, we should get. No one else should have a job unless we say. Bottoms up management I say. We don't need any dispatchers handling telephone calls. We don't need any records clerks processing our reports, we certainly don't need any stinking management. What do they know...I mean with there fancy FBI degrees, advanced education, countless Chiefs and administrative seminars, command schools. All highly over rated. I mean all we really need are patrol officers who know how to run laser, radar, and handle domestics. Well we really don't need the lasers and radars because we are way to busy to use them anyway. We don't need training people that know how to process the paperwork to get us certified. Heck when FDLE comes knocking to review our files, we will just wave our shiny badges at them and they will be in aw of our wisdom. We don't need a professional standards section that recruits people. Under this new form of goverment, no one will ever leave. Crime prevention, not needed. We will have 102 lean mean fighting police officers on the streets driving around. The streets will be free of rift raft. No need for detectives. With that many officers on the street, there will be no crime and then no crimes to investigate. So once again no need for a victim advocate or youth detectives.

Like our parents going on vacation and leaving us behind.....

Lord of the Flies anyone.

your post is making a mockery of a dire situation at our PD. i think it's safe to say we do need some admin positions, but the system we have now is broken. you must be admin to post trash like that. we have so much waste and useless positions at the dept and this is dragging us down. look for ways (this might hurt some feelings) to cut positions like corps, Lts, and others that are not needed. no one will lose their jobs, but they might have to work for that paycheck. sorry if this hurts feelings, but we (the officers) did not create this mess. to be fair to the PD, the city is famous for creating useless positions in order to help friends and spend taxpayers money. think about how many executive assistant vice director positions get made each month, all with fancy titles and hefty salaries. the city manager must be stopped, this ship is sinking

"................ to be fair to the PD, the city is famous for creating useless positions in order to help friends and spend taxpayers money. think about how many executive assistant vice director positions get made each month, all with fancy titles and hefty salaries. the city manager must be stopped, this ship is sinking"....................

Code Enforcement ring a bell :x

You obviously are overworked and certainly underpaid. However, lets focus on your stress for your overworked situation.

Please, abandon ship, I fear for your health. (I know, I said.....I said leave.....I am so bad)

There has to be some poor unsuspecting recruit in the academy that can come take your position and relieve your stress level from all the calls you have to take during the day. There is a beach community calling where you can finish your days in peace staring at the tranquility of waves splashing up on the beach. I mean working those 10 hour days here in the Park must be just dragging you down. Well I mean those 8 hours for days, 9 hours for mids, and 7 hours for eves. Lets face it, few handle calls during the overlap unless you come from the ongoing shift.

Please, things aren't that bad. Stop being dramatic. Pay needs to come up. Everything else is ok. Sure some things could be better but please. Stop being a drama queen.

Thanks for the pep talk and words of encouragement, you must be a supervisor. all these classes and academies are really helping with your people-management skills, not!

Look around, I am the guy in the hallway or that person that when we x56 I nod my head when you spout your venom and act like I agree with you just so we can wrap the conversation up as quickly as possible.

Franky, we, and I mean most of us are tired of hearing you daily spout off about how much you hate working here and hate your co-workers and supervisors. You are not God's gift to law enforcement. I know it is hard to believe but we are all replaceable and we can do this job without you. Sometimes, I wish we could. Just so you know, when the rest of us talk in the hallway, or x56, we talk about you and then quickly hush our mouths when you walk around the corner. We discuss how glad we are that we are not living in your life since apparently you are so miserable.

Sometimes you make a valid point but then whatever credibility you had with that point disappears when the very next second you bash or trash someone I respect simply because you feel like you are being held back.

I am not being held back. I work hard, I am not part of some secret society of officers, supervisors, and administrators who meet in a dark room somewhere to figure out how to screw you and the 2-3 other members of the venom spewing society.

Does the agency have some issues, yes we do. However, most of think our bosses are capable of leading and do a good job. Some better than others but most of their hearts are in the right place. Perhaps not all but that is to be expected. Every group has bad apples and supervisors are no different. After all we have you so I suppose supervisors also have someone they sit and listen too and just nod.

Bottom line, the 3 of you do not speak for all of us. Do not act like you do. Do not act like the walls are crumbling, they are not. Cracked in places yes, but not falling. We have some contract, policy and supervisor problems but what agency does not. They all do, every organization does. It is called life. Get over it.

My advice, get a life outside of this police department. I come here and I work to get my paycheck. I then go home to live my life. I suggest you do the same. Simply put, the majority of us are tired of listening to you. Look in a mirror and check to see if you are really happy with your life, I trust you are not. Fix your problems, don't take it out on us and our bosses. I can't help you are miserable at home, but leave your misery at your cruiser door when you come to work.

Before you post and say all this is false, look in the mirror. I suspect you won't, you will likely meet with the venom society and prepare your next attack.

We can't wait to see it. Or more importantly tell me when we see each other at work. I am all tinglely with anticipation.

"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler."
Henry David Thoreau

thanks boot licker, but not every officer is happy here. Things need to change, there's nothing wrong with difference of opinion. Just because Admin makes mistake, they can fix it, but someone has to tell them. Face to face complaining won't get you far at this PD. Happy sniping
Oh, by the way, I doubt you could even get someone to x56 you

3 angry snake boys wrote all these 100 or so posts? I think not. Even the happiest officers have gripes. Lumping officers into a group and challenging their man or womenhood with your negative comments is very mature. I don't agree with the personal attacks on certain supervisors either, but this place needs a serious facelift. There are better ways to post your feelings without being rude and telling people they need counseling or to find another job. I agree some posters go out of their way to make foolish statements, but those should be ignored and the real issues should be addressed. When we signed on to be officers, we did not sign away our ability to be opinionated

No one said you couldn't express your opinion. In fact I love reading everyone's opinion. However, don't expect that your opinion is not going to be challenged. If others feel you are wrong, prepare to back up your opinion with facts because you are going to be challenged. When you are unable to back yourself up, you look bad all that we are left with is your opinion based on your knowledge, and since we don't know who you are, how do we know how knowledgable you are. We don't so don't expect your opinion to hold much weight. So what that a couple of people jump in and say the same thing, how do we know that it isn't the same person posting the same thing three different times and in different ways to make it seem like they have support. We don't, so really you can't trust anything you read on this site to be factual.

Around here, opinion is not good enough because everyone has one.

Also, sniping is not disagreeing with someone's opinion. Sniping is assasinating someone's character by personally naming them but not identifying yourself. We should all be free to disagree with the Chief, admin, Sgt's, everyone but do so without making it personal. Some don't know how to do that because they can't back their arguments up so their only comeback is a personal attack on who they think was posing. Sign of weakness.

On a side note, will someone please x56 with me.....I so lonely on the board all by me lonesome...

please read all of the other police boards that are local. Everyone is griping. If you don't like it here.....LEAVE>>>>>

Agreed

"If you don't like it here.....LEAVE>>>>>"? Screw you SKIP. Pointing out inefficiencies is one way to make things better around here. You, instead, are saying "FU" if you are not happy. Well, I say "FU" right back at YOU, SKIP. We will not shut up and "LEAVE". It's brown nosers like you that keep eating the S&%T pie that the brass feeds us and telling them that it tastes like chocolate.

http://www.buttonsovernite.com/BT%20images%20large/701_unhappy-face_lg.png

Why so angry....

What it must be like to wake up next to you every day....

I guess you do "like pie" you eat enough of it. ENJOY!

http://www.coonscandy.com/cowpie.gif

i say it to you now, if you don't like this agency, LEAVE, if you wanna whine, LEAVE, go work elsewhere. As you can see from the other posted boards thay are happt. Just because you got a bad eval don't get mad at us, LEAVE!!!!!

I guess it would be easier for all the unhappy people to leave rather than fix the problems. Problem with that is the problems would still exist and no one would be left to cover all the shifts. Why not just work on fixing the problems we have. Then no one would want to leave and most will be happier. It would be nice to believe the Admin would recognize the problems and work on them so they can keep the troops we have. If they are working on them, then keep us updated on the progress, or do something so we can see something is being done.

I agree with the poster above. It seems that admin's (and boot licker's) standard reply is "just shut up and do your job" or "leave" or a similar reply. Well, that is not going to happen. WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED :!:

Believe us, we get it. You will not be silenced and you rarely make valid points. Welcome to our world.

Your friend,

Apparently a boot licker...

Why don't all u complainers just quit? I think admin is doing the best they can

U R sucking everybody in this dept down into your blackhole of negativity.

The sooner u complaining aholes quit the better
also u whinning old timers just need to moove on or "just get out the way b#@ch."

Here Here...

Well said...

hmm if that is the best they can...

we are in trouble

Very true, they have some flaws....

They hired you.....

:lol:

""""Once again, I would see why you might jump to that conclusion. Let's talk through it. You advocate giving up one the highest liability areas to the control of an agency who (no offense) that has a reputation for being heavy handed. If a SWAT encounter utilizing PCSO SWAT were to break bad, our agency and City can still be held liable. If I understand the issue correctly, the plaintiff would need legislative approval in order to sue the Sheriff for more than $100,000. That likely would have to come with a claim of gross negligence which is hard to prove. However, the call to activate SWAT and the call to use SWAT would still rest with the Chief of the Police. Pinellas Park could still be sued for the actions of the Sheriff's office even though we do not control the actions of the individual deputies who would be working in our city. A moderate suit due to the actions of another agency's officers could cost the city millions and to me is not worth it. If we are going to risk a suit through SWAT operations, I would rather it be due to our mistake rather than someone else’s. Other issues involved are the slippery slope of consolidation once you give up another Service to PCSO. Finally on this particular issue, I like the fact that we have officers who serve with us on the street who are some the best tacticians in the county and state. Further, those officers are armed with .223's and other weapons that can be used and readily available if an emergency situation arises before the whole team can activate and deploy. There is nothing better than SWAT operators showing up on a felony traffic stop and seeing the long guns deploy. There is a sense of control that comes from their presence. That officer safety is priceless.""""

Man you post some real BS. I happen to be browsing this exchange of ideas when I found the above post. Let me just say, you need a civics lesson. First, the Sheriff is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer and the only law enforcement officer recognized by the State constitution. With that being said, if PCSO did have a SWAT call in the city, it becomes their investigation and the liability falls on their shoulders. The city cannot and will not be held liable for the actions of the highest law enforcement officer. Once the Sheriff is on scene, the city can't do a thing about it. It would be the same thing as a city that contracts services with the Sheriff. If a Sheriff's Deputy uses force within a contract city, or if Pinellas Park called upon the Sheriff for assistance and things go bad, the city cannot be held responsible for the actions of that Deputy. This has been proven in several court cases such as when BSO SWAT was used in Margate and ended up causing a fire to a building when the used smoke grenades. The Florida Courts stated the city would be held liable for the actions of BSO. Hialeah used FHP TRT for a drug sweep, when the suspects decided to sue law enforcement for damages to their property, Hialeah was not held responsible because it was FHP's case in the city. It happens often in contract cities when a suspect or plaintiff tries to sue the city, however the liability is directed at the Sheriff. Remember the Sheriff is responsible for the residents of Pinellas Park regardless of the fact they their own police force. If the city decided to disband their police force, PCSO would by law have to resume the responsibility.

Thanks for the civics lesson. I for one feel better.

Bring on the Sheriff's Office, the savior of all of a things good and proper. The Chief law enforcement officer of the land.....A political hack.....with a department run by political law enforcement like no other in the county.....Bigger is better right?

Of course, I know several lawyers that disagree with you. But, then again, 50% of all lawyers are wrong. Please cite the Florida law references that you quoted so that we can examine the circumstances of the cases. You speak well and me thinks you may be on to something, but it would still be distasteful to contract to the SO for SWAT service.

Thanks for the civics lesson. I for one feel better.

Bring on the Sheriff's Office, the savior of all of a things good and proper. The Chief law enforcement officer of the land.....A political hack.....with a department run by political law enforcement like no other in the county.....Bigger is better right?

Of course, I know several lawyers that disagree with you. But, then again, 50% of all lawyers are wrong. Please cite the Florida law references that you quoted so that we can examine the circumstances of the cases. You speak well and me thinks you may be on to something, but it would still be distasteful to contract to the SO for SWAT service.

Just pull the state constitution. The Sheriff is the Chief LEO and he/she is elected by the county residents, some who also reside in the city. The Sheriff is responsible for the city as well. Just as if a Deputy backed you up, and the stuff hit the fan, the Sheriff will assume more liability than the city. Call FDLE, look it up in the constitution, or ask another Sheriff. I'm not saying PCSO is the best, I'm just stating the facts. Be safe and take care.

I'm not saying it would be better for Pinellas Park to contract PCSO for SWAT, I don't know what it's like over there. There are many responsibilities and liability that come with being the Sheriff Chief LEO. Up North, State Police have that responsibility; down here it's the Sheriff. In the end, we are doing the same thankless job. Take care.

We don't give a damn "HOW YOU DO IT UP NORTH"! Tired of hearing that one.