take home cars

Unload them and park them, how many available spaces in that parking garage? no car pooling everybody drive in and get there early, some may be a little late across the street.

I understand the it is now 15 miles from the downtown station? Why not the city limits then 15 miles. Come on this is a benifit for our officers. I support you and the cars. You save me money because the cars are taking beter care off than nornally and last longer.

Or at least 15 miles from the center of the city. Let's face it, the main station is about as far west as you can get other than the beach. The district III officers get the shaft on that deal. Oh and I guess everyone else who doesn't currently have a car continues to get a raw deal. How is it that smaller and larger agencies don't have problems getting all of their officers cars at least. A take home is one thing, at least get us all cars.

drive your own cars to work like the rest of us..... there is absolutely no benifit to the citizens.

.
[/b]

No benefit to the citizens?

How about the next time I'm enroute to my assigned district and happen to drive upon that disabled vehicle blocking traffic, causing a major roadway backup. Would you rather I continue traveling towards downtown or stop and assist in clearing the road and helping the motorist? It might be a while before a on duty officer is available to help. You decide.

[wifeyto1goodcop]

Police vehicles parked in a residential neighborhood are a deterrent to crime. There are sheriff and police cruisers parked on my street due to LEOs that live here. A few months ago there was a string of home burglaries in my neighborhood. The sheriff department had a map of these burglaries and every street in our neighborhood was 'hit' except mine. Coincidence? I think not.

People *usually* don't speed down our street either. Their brakes go on right as they pass by my neighbors cruiser. So, no speeding by my home.

I love living near several law enforcement officers. Things are quiet and I like it that way. Having take home cars is a good thing. In a mile radius of my home, I have LPD, PCSO, CPD, Treasure Island, and a few other agencies living nearby and ALL of them have take home cars.

For citizens that don't know, this is a common practice in a police department. A police department needs to stay competitive in its benefits to officers to hire new ones and keep the older ones. It's foolish to pay XX amount of money to: screen, possibly put through police academy, then train officers to lose them 2 years later or 5 years later to other agencies in the area. CPD HAS to stay on the edge. 10 years ago we were one of, if not *the* #1 agency to apply to and work for.

What will happen is, there will be shortages (ask officers about that now!), lack of qualified people applying (again, ask FTOs about this now), and veteran officers with years of training and experience leaving (once again, this is happening).

BUT, the public doesn't hear about this stuff. Its so much more than take home cars. And it saddens me that we have a few more years with a mayor that doesn't value the police department, which is essential to the community. This isn't a fancy option. It's a necessity!!

These issues hit close to home and I'm tired of sitting back year after year and nothing gets better. I did write the mayor during the Parco thing, the least I could do. But there has to be more....
:?:


drive your own cars to work like the rest of us..... there is absolutely no benifit to the citizens.

.
[/b]

For the citizen's who think take home cars are of no benefit....SUCKERS!!

With a take home car Cops go in-service AT the appointed shift time, and start taking calls immediately...frequently on the way to work. No load time, minimum roll call, all the gear is there and ready.

With a fleet car the first 30 to 45 minutes are spent getting a set of keys, finding the car that corresponds to them, setting up the computer, shotgun, citation book, gear bag, flashlight, and any specialty equipment they might be assigned...and hoping the guy who had it last filled up the tank at end of shift. And since fleet cars are ABUSED, hope that it doesn't need to be 'downed' for a bad battery or headlight...it's another twenty minutes to 'down' a car and get another.
At the end of the shift guys driving fleet cars need to head in thirty minutes earlier to get all thier gear out the car so they can hand it over to the next shift.
All you suckers who don't like the idea of paying for a Cops gas to and from his/her home get ready for this...your City managers choose to pay a minimum of 1 hours salary EVERDAY to each and every road Cop to ride in fleet cars with a ridiculously short vehicle lifespan when compared to assigned cars.
The City spends MORE money on salary for LESS road time for each Cop, and gets less life out of each fleet cruiser than an assigned car.
Maybe my math sucks but if the minimum rookie salary is about $21 hour, then that rookie would need to burn $21 in commuting gas for the City to have a valid point.
At 15 miles per gallon cruiser mileage, and $3 per gallon gas cost, A Cop with an assigned take home car would have to drive 105 commuting miles daily to equal the cost of that 1 hour of time spent loading and unloading a fleet car. That equates to a commuting distance from CPD main station to beyond Brooksville, round trip, and nobody lives that far away.
For many of the Cops that do live far away in West Pasco, that would be a 20-40 mile roundtrip commute, a little over 2 gallons of fuel ($6 worth of gas).

The City managers had the following choice:
$6 daily (less for those who live closer) for a Cop to work out every minute of the shift on the road with a take home car...or...$21 daily (minimum) for a Cop to work his/her shift minus 1 hr of useless unavailabilty.

I would rather pay out less money for a Cop to do thier job every minute of the shift, than pay out more money so they can spend an hour at the station.

The City managers need to hang thier heads in shame for making SUCKERS out of the tax payers in Clearwater. Give the guys take home cars.

""""Posted: 02/12/08 10:06:29 Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the citizen's who think take home cars are of no benefit....SUCKERS!!

With a take home car Cops go in-service AT the appointed shift time, and start taking calls immediately...frequently on the way to work. No load time, minimum roll call, all the gear is there and ready.

With a fleet car the first 30 to 45 minutes are spent getting a set of keys, finding the car that corresponds to them, setting up the computer, shotgun, citation book, gear bag, flashlight, and any specialty equipment they might be assigned...and hoping the guy who had it last filled up the tank at end of shift. And since fleet cars are ABUSED, hope that it doesn't need to be 'downed' for a bad battery or headlight...it's another twenty minutes to 'down' a car and get another.
At the end of the shift guys driving fleet cars need to head in thirty minutes earlier to get all thier gear out the car so they can hand it over to the next shift.
All you suckers who don't like the idea of paying for a Cops gas to and from his/her home get ready for this...your City managers choose to pay a minimum of 1 hours salary EVERDAY to each and every road Cop to ride in fleet cars with a ridiculously short vehicle lifespan when compared to assigned cars.
The City spends MORE money on salary for LESS road time for each Cop, and gets less life out of each fleet cruiser than an assigned car.
Maybe my math sucks but if the minimum rookie salary is about $21 hour, then that rookie would need to burn $21 in commuting gas for the City to have a valid point.
At 15 miles per gallon cruiser mileage, and $3 per gallon gas cost, A Cop with an assigned take home car would have to drive 105 commuting miles daily to equal the cost of that 1 hour of time spent loading and unloading a fleet car. That equates to a commuting distance from CPD main station to beyond Brooksville, round trip, and nobody lives that far away.
For many of the Cops that do live far away in West Pasco, that would be a 20-40 mile roundtrip commute, a little over 2 gallons of fuel ($6 worth of gas).

The City managers had the following choice:
$6 daily (less for those who live closer) for a Cop to work out every minute of the shift on the road with a take home car...or...$21 daily (minimum) for a Cop to work his/her shift minus 1 hr of useless unavailabilty.

I would rather pay out less money for a Cop to do thier job every minute of the shift, than pay out more money so they can spend an hour at the station.

The City managers need to hang thier heads in shame for making SUCKERS out of the tax payers in Clearwater. Give the guys take home cars """""



One of the best post I have read in relation to take home cars. All good points, especially the 1 hour of paid time the officer will have to use to "gear up" vs. the actual cost of the commute

Additionally when called in for THI, SWAT or even a Detective call out, the Officers can respond directly to the scene. How about this little scenario, lets say there is a Homicide (traffic or otherwise) at Sunset Point and 19, investigator lives in Dunedin or heaven forbid Highpoint. They will respond to either the main station or countryside to get a work vehicle (can't bring privately owned car violation of policy and or insurance rules) possibly passing the scene then returning, causing a delay in response, longer times for traffic to be blocked greater chance of loss of evidence. But the city will still be paying for the Officers time from when the leave the house, again greater cost to the city. Both in money and in delaying the investigation.
But as I set and write this I think that there are 4 types reading this, Cops and their supporters who will agree, detractors who will argue the point and distant observers who may agree but will do little to support Police either way. I drive my self to work, in a vehicle I pay for and insure, but rest assured I will not stop to help push a disabled car, I will not render first aid and more than likely I will not call to summon aid for those that may need it. But I would bet 90 percent of those Officers driving to work would do it, if they can do it safely even in their personal vehicle. Cops and Firefighters are a stupid lot, they rush to fires, explosions and bad people with weapons and you may say they get paid to do it, but what is it worth and at what cost. Would you rush to the sound of gun fire or even to the sound of a crash to do anything other than watch, and if you would what price would you demand no one does anything for free. Society as a whole is going to hell in a hand basket and these few people that rush head long to help those that call deserve every little bit of support they can get. Whether it’s a take home car, the best weapon available or a bullet proof vest. You know, after 911 everybody body loved the Police and Firemen, but it’s been 6 years, there is no immediate threat of attack and no major catastrophe for them to work 20 hours days at in the same uniform with few breaks and little rest so people just see them as a financial burden. But when it’s your door getting kicked in (by the bad guys), or your child or parent missing or in that car crash, you will want them, you will call them, and some will even pray for them, but only when it’s do to your need.

[Billy The Kid]

Don't forget that they will also complain about what took us so long to get there.

Without getting into names and name calling, let's explain this a little more. I am a CPD officer that has experience from another agency. At that agency, I had my own car. When I was given that car, it had 50K miles on it and drove like a champ. My previous employer authorized pursuits and I wouldn't hesitate with that car. The car was mine; owned by the agency, but my car. I treated it like mine and took care of it like my personal cars. I personally washed the car every weekend, including the exterior and interior. The car was spotless and displayed a positive image to the public of a professional agency. When I left the agency and turned the car in, it had well over 120K miles and drove like the day I got it with more than double the miles.

Now compare that with the "normal" fleet car, like the one I drove today. I had a newer car (less than three years old). It had 69K miles and drove horribly. I was literally concerned about how the car responded and what would happen if I needed to drive code to a hot call. I literally thought to myself when I left the parking lot, "I hope I don't have to respond code today."

Unfortunately, I am not making this up. This is the condition of fleet cars. I've heard that supervisors need to make us "more accountable" for fleet cars. Realistically, its impossible. Not really at anyone's fault. Most people, regardless of rank or profession, don't treat fleet cars with much respect and certainly don't take care of it as their own car. A perfect example is rental cars. Would you buy a rental car? Do you want to drive one for an extended period of time? When your son or daughter is hurt in a car accident or shot in a drive-by, do you want me to get there fast or take my time because of a crappy car?

For most of us, this is a personal issue as it directly has an impact on our ability to do our job, our safety and the safety of the public. Most of us have families and sould not be forced to drive unsafe cars. Furthermore; there is no reason to pay me $100 a week to load and unload my car, or wait for the sergeant to find me keys for a car, or for me to search for the car, or hope there aren't any holding calls that I don't have enough gas to get to.

There is much more than money at stake here. There are police officer lives in the middle of all of this. How much do you think the city will pay my family when I am killed because of an unsafe cruiser. I'd be willing to bet that pay-out is going to be a lot more than a few gallons of gas.

The last couple of posts have been the best posts I have seen since this website started. Right on target. Believe this - I have had the conversation with my close family members and several co-workers. The conversation that if I die or I am seriously injured in a police vehicle to hire the best lawyer, with the best investigators, and take the city for as much as possible. Why you ask? Because chances are very good that the vehicle’s condition contributed to the cause.

I have had several close calls due to the poor condition of fleet vehicles. These stories only touch the tip of the iceberg I am sure. From bald tires, batteries that die while the vehicle is going above 30 miles per hour, shocks that have close to 100,000 miles (do they realize how much this increases the braking distance of a vehicle during a panic stop?), brakes that can be heard squealing from miles away, anti-lock brakes that do not function if the road is wet or covered in dirt, another officer who found mismatched sized wheels/tires on different sides of the car (yeah 16's on one side and 17's on the other). BRILLIANT! How much do you think would have been paid to all parties if that vehicle was involved in an accident?

Now not only are the fleet vehicles terribly abused and ignored, but the garage (possibly the most crooked department in the city) will not keep the vehicles in a safe operating condition. Ask for new shocks? Good luck. Ask them to fix the anti-lock brake problem? Yeah right, you are getting it back in the same condition. Put on mismatched size wheels/tires? Give me a break! In a fleet car this possibly went unnoticed for some time. Do this to an assigned/take home vehicle? I guarantee most of us would notice almost immediately. Why? People pay more attention to something that they feel belongs to them. We hurry to load our fleet vehicles every day, ignoring our own safety, so that we can respond to that call holding.

And tell me it isn’t true that the Police Department buys our vehicles out of their budget, hands them over to the garage, and then leases the vehicles from the garage for $900/month. Are we really paying twice for these cars? Not to mention paying $900/month for 7 year old cars with 100,000+ miles on it. Do I need to list the vehicles that could be leased for $900/month? BMW anyone?

I really wish someone would dig deep into the management of the city. I guess a Police Department is the easy target to save a few bucks. I see plenty of areas where money could be saved at the Police Department, but the vehicles should not be one of them. More money should be spent on them, not less. I am not a mayor, but I am pretty sure Government 101 teaches you to take care of the police and fire first, and everything else is expendable.

[Billy The Kid]

Yes the city garage system is a scam if I have ever seen one. I have feeling we pay for their budget with what we pay them per vehicle.

On another note, I was heading to a call involving a persdon who was acting up and causing a disturbance. An off duty unit heading to work chimed in from his take home and was able to get there before me and assist with the situation. That was great! he was ready to go and able to help.

Oh, and never bring the fleet cars to the car wash, they will fall apart if the dirt is washed off...fyi.

The City Garage charges the police department $800 or more a month per vehicle to lease from the City even after the Police Department has already purchased the vehicles outright from the dealerships out of their budget. How is that not a crime or at the very least dishonest to the taxpayers?

Double to triple charging for each and every vehicle. Can someone please call the St. Pete Times and let them do their own investigation and expose this? If this was a corporation the CEO would be arrested for Violating;

The Sarbanes-Oxley Act of 2002 (Pub.L. 107-204, 116 Stat. 745, enacted 2002-07-30), also known as the Public Company Accounting Reform and Investor Protection Act of 2002 is a United States federal law enacted on July 30, 2002 in response to a number of major corporate and accounting scandals

Title III mandates that senior executives take individual responsibility for the accuracy and completeness of corporate financial reports. It defines the interaction of external auditors and corporate audit committees, and specifies the responsibility of corporate officers for the accuracy and validity of corporate financial reports.

I'm not sure, but I would bet that the city's way of triple charging each and every vehicle would fall under, at the very minimum, highly irregular accounting principles. You be the jugde.

The City Garage charges the police department $800 or more a month per vehicle to lease from the City even after the Police Department has already purchased the vehicles outright from the dealerships out of their budget. How is that not a crime or at the very least dishonest to the taxpayers?

WTHeck?

How is this fair and ethical?

Sounds like the PD gets screwed all the way around.

SO the question is... why isn't something being done? Has anyone brought this up at a city meeting? Any volunteers?

How's this for ethical, Just before he retired an Officer took his fleet car in for a quick fix. One bulb out in a vector pod. He could see the reflector rotating and working it was just a burned out bulb. The garage replaced the whole pod, and charged it back to the Police Dept. When he questioned why, he was told the vector bars were not being replaced and they "the garage" had lots of spare parts they needed to get rid of, Nice. Take it out of the Police Budget and not the garage for improperly ordering too much.