Letter to the Mayor

Officers of the Plant City Police Department who are not for the union
1 Police Place
Plant City, Florida 33563
December 17, 2007

Rick A. Lott
Mayor
City Commission
City of Plant City, Florida
302 W. Reynolds Street
Plant City, Florida 33563

Dear Mayor Lott and City Commissioners:
We hope this letter finds you and your families well this Christmas season. As you are no doubt aware, an initiative by officers of the Plant City Police Department to seek representation by the West Central Florida Police Benevolent Association was recently undertaken. And while the command level staff and the members seeking representation have a say in this matter, the remaining fifty percent of the department has no voice. We are being forgotten, or altogether ignored. We are most concerned about these recent developments and request that the city commission intervene on our behalf and conduct an independent investigation.

Once the existence of this letter becomes public, it is almost certain we will be labeled as complainers or disgruntled by the administration of the department. In fact, we represent those who come to work daily, do our jobs to the best of our ability, and merely seek the status quo. We represent those who are proud to put on this uniform and wear this badge everyday, who work so that we can spend what little extra time and money we have on our families, and who hope that one day our hard work will pay off in the form of a successful career and a fruitful retirement. We have long been subject to the indiscretions of this agency’s administration just so we can enjoy the benefits of a career with the police department. Because we feared retaliation by the administration and were afraid to speak out, we are now bound to pay the price.

As we have previously stated, we are not in support of the union, but we
must at least recognize why half the Department has elected to seek outside representation. We believe, at the very least, you should be privy to what has placed us in this predicament. For some time now, the administration, which includes lieutenants, captains and the chief, has been permitted to run the Department freely and with minor oversight by the City Manager’s Office. Unfortunately, this lack of involvement on the part of City Hall has permitted the Chief and the staff to drive morale to its lowest levels. The low morale is not a product of what the administration does, but a product of what it does not do; when an agency, such as ours, is comprised of young and eager officers, they aspire to go above and beyond. The Chief has taken advantage of this will to succeed. On multiple occasions, the Chief has promised officers promotions or transfers in order to keep them from going to larger agencies or to hold down insurrection. The following are recent examples of this policy:

In late June, the Chief announced to the employee advisory board that “big changes” in the form of transfers and promotions would come about in July of 2007. That month came and passed with no fulfillment of those promises. When confronted with this, the Chief denied ever having said this to the advisory board.
In late August, members of the Department’s Emergency Response Team, including the team leader, began resigning because a lack of support on the part of the Chief. This lack of support included limited funding and the failure to use the team in situations where their use would have been safer than deploying members who were not trained in tactical entries. In early September, the Chief began the selection process to realign the Department’s Emergency Response Team and named a new team leader. The Chief ordered the team to hold tryouts in mid-September. Members of the Department came in on their days off and personal time to tryout for the team. The results were then submitted to the Chief. To this date, no one has been selected for the team and as a result the Department is still without a team to respond to emergency situations that arise within the city.

Then, in what appeared to be a breakthrough, the Chief announced in late September that he was seeking applicants for promotion to sergeant and to the ill fated K-9 program. He further announced in writing that the process for both would be conducted during the month of October with selections being completed in November. To further complicate matters, the Chief announced to the employee advisory board these selections would be completed by November 15, 2007. The Chief conducted oral interviews for K-9 applicants during October. These interviews led the applicants for the K-9 positions to believe selections were imminent and would be done as promised. The Chief elevated the hopes of these officers. As before, November 15th, the day the Chief verbally announced as the deadline for his selections, came and went. The applicants heard nothing from the Chief. He made no announcement as to why no selections were made. The officers, who are mostly young and eager, and who were subjected to the stress of the selection process, felt as though they deserved an explanation. None was ever provided. This, of course, left a bad taste in the mouth of those who sacrificed their time and whose hopes were crushed. The sergeant exam was never conducted. There was less outrage on the part of this group. Most of the sergeant applicants were officers with 6 or more years experience who are used to the procrastination of the Chief and never really felt as though the promise would come to fruition.

This pattern of promises without fulfillment has become the norm at your police department. We affectionately refer to this process as “chasing the carrot.” This ‘”chasing the carrot” mentality has resulted in the loss of many good officers to other agencies, not because of the pay, but because of the laizze fair attitude of the administration which is, and we quote a captain: “if they don’t like it, we can find someone else…there are academy classes graduating all the time.” We feel statements such as that represent poor leadership on the part of the administration and as a result, we find ourselves embroiled in this battle against not only the staff, but our fellow officers. As a commission, you have certainly fulfilled your duties by appointing supervisors to manage the department. Your managers are effective, but they are not leaders. Our Chief feels he does not have to answer to his people and explain why he does the things he does. A true leader communicates with his people. “There is nothing more demoralizing than a leader who can't clearly articulate why we are doing what we're doing.”- Barry Posner. The administration must understand we are not their children. We are adult men and women whose lives depend upon each decision they make.

If you permit a union to infiltrate the ranks of the police department, it will tear us apart. We will no longer represent the cohesive culture that we have come to represent and will therefore become less effective as a law enforcement agency. A division has already begun forming among the ranks. The staff, most of which are either in the DROP or will be entering the DROP, has taken an “us against them” approach toward all the officers, whether they are for the union or not. This stance has alienated those who have been loyal to the Department and have done nothing wrong. We are being lumped in with the union supporters simply because we are officers. We feel this is a slap in the face. There are some of us who have sacrificed many long hours and our families for this city. To be threatened with statements such as “the city will discontinue our take-home vehicle program”, “extra duty will be eliminated” and “things such as tuition reimbursement will no longer exist,” has pushed young and easily influenced officers to the pro union side.

We hope that you will seriously consider the impact that a police union would have on our city. Inaction on the part of the commission can only cause the loss of good officers to other agencies and create disgruntled employees. Please focus on the real issue which is the poor leadership displayed by the staff and the Chief of Police and address the cause of the unhappiness and low morale at the police department. This is not about raises, benefits or the retirement. This is about equality and doing the right thing. We are coming to you, because according to the Chief, the city staff finds humor in the fact that a union is coming in. They do not take the union seriously. The Union has already swore to run a negative smear campaign against the commission, don’t let those you trusted to do a job, and who have failed you, sully your good names. You are all good people, who we know only have the best interest of your employees and constituents at heart. You have proven this time and time again through your actions and your progressive attitudes. Please follow the lead of the City of Bartow and conduct an independent investigation into the low morale at the police department and restore the agency to its proper place among the most professional in the state. It may not prevent the union from being voted in, but it is the right thing to do.

Thank you for listening.
Sincerely,
Officers of the Plant City Police Department who are not for the union.

You stated "If you permit a union to infiltrate the ranks of the police department, it will tear us apart. We will no longer represent the cohesive culture that we have come to represent and will therefore become less effective as a law enforcement agency."

Oh so ganging up on other Officers (breaking labor laws) who have the right to vote is ok? That really shows how cohesive we are right? :shock:

Can you please tell me "why not the Union?" I have yet to hear someone give a vailid reason as to why not to vote a Union in. Oh I agree on the poor leadership, great quote by the way, but why not vote a union in? Please inform me of that..... and also how we will be less effective. I want answers :!: Because I have answers for what it can do...WATCH THE VIDEO.

There are some Officers who are on the fense about the Union, but have you done your research about a Union and what it can do. I hear Officers say HCSO is having problems and so is Lakeland. Have you picked up the phone and called one of there representatives and done some research to find out whats going on with them:?: Or you just going off hearsay :?: Every agency have had some bumps along the way, which were later smoothed out. We are looking towards the future with the Union and what it can do. Watch the video and educate your self what a Union can do. The video clearly states what the PBA will do.

. . . Billy McDaniel? What a suck a--!!!

Copies of this in letter form have been mailed to the home of the Mayor, all the commssioners, and to George Newman at the Tampa Tribune.

Things will never change in this city. The commission has always allowed the chief to do these things because he sucks their butt and does what they want whatever the cost.

Yes we have checked with HCSO and LPD. Talked with the officers and not their PBA rep(s). Ask the people that are affected and not the ones making the $$$$$$ off them.

If you are worried about the At Will status within the city, then don't have sex with your co-workers and blame others for your mistakes. The majority have no problems with child behavior.





You stated "If you permit a union to infiltrate the ranks of the police department, it will tear us apart. We will no longer represent the cohesive culture that we have come to represent and will therefore become less effective as a law enforcement agency."

Oh so ganging up on other Officers (breaking labor laws) who have the right to vote is ok? That really shows how cohesive we are right? :shock:

Can you please tell me "why not the Union?" I have yet to hear someone give a vailid reason as to why not to vote a Union in. Oh I agree on the poor leadership, great quote by the way, but why not vote a union in? Please inform me of that..... and also how we will be less effective. I want answers :!: Because I have answers for what it can do...WATCH THE VIDEO.

There are some Officers who are on the fense about the Union, but have you done your research about a Union and what it can do. I hear Officers say HCSO is having problems and so is Lakeland. Have you picked up the phone and called one of there representatives and done some research to find out whats going on with them:?: Or you just going off hearsay :?: Every agency have had some bumps along the way, which were later smoothed out. We are looking towards the future with the Union and what it can do. Watch the video and educate your self what a Union can do. The video clearly states what the PBA will do.

Ok you still have not answered my question as to why we shouldn't vote the Union in. You say you have checked with HCSO and LPD, well......give me answers. No one here that is anti-union has been able to give me an answer. If someone gives me a valid reason to change the outlook of bringing in a Union, I am all ears. Just saying "don’t do it" is not good enough for me. Maybe you should think about setting up a “anti Union meeting” and explain your side of the story. Convince me :!: I’ll bring my PBA Rep too.


Yes we have checked with HCSO and LPD. Talked with the officers and not their PBA rep(s). Ask the people that are affected and not the ones making the $$$$$$ off them.

If you are worried about the At Will status within the city, then don't have sex with your co-workers and blame others for your mistakes. The majority have no problems with child behavior.





You stated "If you permit a union to infiltrate the ranks of the police department, it will tear us apart. We will no longer represent the cohesive culture that we have come to represent and will therefore become less effective as a law enforcement agency."

Oh so ganging up on other Officers (breaking labor laws) who have the right to vote is ok? That really shows how cohesive we are right? :shock:

Can you please tell me "why not the Union?" I have yet to hear someone give a vailid reason as to why not to vote a Union in. Oh I agree on the poor leadership, great quote by the way, but why not vote a union in? Please inform me of that..... and also how we will be less effective. I want answers :!: Because I have answers for what it can do...WATCH THE VIDEO.

There are some Officers who are on the fense about the Union, but have you done your research about a Union and what it can do. I hear Officers say HCSO is having problems and so is Lakeland. Have you picked up the phone and called one of there representatives and done some research to find out whats going on with them:?: Or you just going off hearsay :?: Every agency have had some bumps along the way, which were later smoothed out. We are looking towards the future with the Union and what it can do. Watch the video and educate your self what a Union can do. The video clearly states what the PBA will do.

Oh so ganging up on other Officers (breaking labor laws) who have the right to vote is ok? That really shows how cohesive we are right?


Ganging up?? Whatever! You support it and go after more support. We don't support it and talk to others about why the non support. Breaking labor laws??? Don't think so!! Coming from a small group that is hiding and not informing everyone on the meeting location. If it is so good for us then there will be no one that will vote, NO. Just shut up and bring on the vote.






Ok you still have not answered my question as to why we shouldn't vote the Union in. You say you have checked with HCSO and LPD, well......give me answers. No one here that is anti-union has been able to give me an answer. If someone gives me a valid reason to change the outlook of bringing in a Union, I am all ears. Just saying "don’t do it" is not good enough for me. Maybe you should think about setting up a “anti Union meeting” and explain your side of the story. Convince me :!: I’ll bring my PBA Rep too.


Yes we have checked with HCSO and LPD. Talked with the officers and not their PBA rep(s). Ask the people that are affected and not the ones making the $$$$$$ off them.

If you are worried about the At Will status within the city, then don't have sex with your co-workers and blame others for your mistakes. The majority have no problems with child behavior.




[quote="PCPD OFFICER":3c8ij7g6]You stated "If you permit a union to infiltrate the ranks of the police department, it will tear us apart. We will no longer represent the cohesive culture that we have come to represent and will therefore become less effective as a law enforcement agency."

Oh so ganging up on other Officers (breaking labor laws) who have the right to vote is ok? That really shows how cohesive we are right? :shock:

Can you please tell me "why not the Union?" I have yet to hear someone give a vailid reason as to why not to vote a Union in. Oh I agree on the poor leadership, great quote by the way, but why not vote a union in? Please inform me of that..... and also how we will be less effective. I want answers :!: Because I have answers for what it can do...WATCH THE VIDEO.

There are some Officers who are on the fense about the Union, but have you done your research about a Union and what it can do. I hear Officers say HCSO is having problems and so is Lakeland. Have you picked up the phone and called one of there representatives and done some research to find out whats going on with them:?: Or you just going off hearsay :?: Every agency have had some bumps along the way, which were later smoothed out. We are looking towards the future with the Union and what it can do. Watch the video and educate your self what a Union can do. The video clearly states what the PBA will do.[/quote:3c8ij7g6]

Please inform me of that..... and also how we will be less effective. I want answers Because I have answers for what it can do...WATCH THE VIDEO.

PBA rep will say anything to get your money.



quote="t"]Oh so ganging up on other Officers (breaking labor laws) who have the right to vote is ok? That really shows how cohesive we are right?


Ganging up?? Whatever! You support it and go after more support. We don't support it and talk to others about why the non support. Breaking labor laws??? Don't think so!! Coming from a small group that is hiding and not informing everyone on the meeting location. If it is so good for us then there will be no one that will vote, NO. Just shut up and bring on the vote.






Ok you still have not answered my question as to why we shouldn't vote the Union in. You say you have checked with HCSO and LPD, well......give me answers. No one here that is anti-union has been able to give me an answer. If someone gives me a valid reason to change the outlook of bringing in a Union, I am all ears. Just saying "don’t do it" is not good enough for me. Maybe you should think about setting up a “anti Union meeting” and explain your side of the story. Convince me :!: I’ll bring my PBA Rep too.


Yes we have checked with HCSO and LPD. Talked with the officers and not their PBA rep(s). Ask the people that are affected and not the ones making the $$$$$$ off them.

If you are worried about the At Will status within the city, then don't have sex with your co-workers and blame others for your mistakes. The majority have no problems with child behavior.





You stated "If you permit a union to infiltrate the ranks of the police department, it will tear us apart. We will no longer represent the cohesive culture that we have come to represent and will therefore become less effective as a law enforcement agency."

Oh so ganging up on other Officers (breaking labor laws) who have the right to vote is ok? That really shows how cohesive we are right? :shock:

Can you please tell me "why not the Union?" I have yet to hear someone give a vailid reason as to why not to vote a Union in. Oh I agree on the poor leadership, great quote by the way, but why not vote a union in? Please inform me of that..... and also how we will be less effective. I want answers :!: Because I have answers for what it can do...WATCH THE VIDEO.

There are some Officers who are on the fense about the Union, but have you done your research about a Union and what it can do. I hear Officers say HCSO is having problems and so is Lakeland. Have you picked up the phone and called one of there representatives and done some research to find out whats going on with them:?: Or you just going off hearsay :?: Every agency have had some bumps along the way, which were later smoothed out. We are looking towards the future with the Union and what it can do. Watch the video and educate your self what a Union can do. The video clearly states what the PBA will do.[/quote:1luxdyou]

"PBA rep will say anything to get your money."

Its funny how you can not answer my question as to why we should not vote them in. Is the above statement the best valid reason you can give? Why don't you set up a meeting and advise us why we should not vote them in, for a second time. I want to hear the answers. In addition there was a letter that came down from the PBA to the Chief, informing him of some senior Officers coercing other Officers off to the side at work and in roll call. That is illegal. But I will shut up now.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Col. Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I think I'm entitled.
Col. Jessep: You want answers?
Kaffee: I want the truth.
Col. Jessep: You can't handle the truth.



Please inform me of that..... and also how we will be less effective. I want answers Because I have answers for what it can do...WATCH THE VIDEO.


PBA rep will say anything to get your money.


quote="t"]Oh so ganging up on other Officers (breaking labor laws) who have the right to vote is ok? That really shows how cohesive we are right?


Ganging up?? Whatever! You support it and go after more support. We don't support it and talk to others about why the non support. Breaking labor laws??? Don't think so!! Coming from a small group that is hiding and not informing everyone on the meeting location. If it is so good for us then there will be no one that will vote, NO. Just shut up and bring on the vote.






Ok you still have not answered my question as to why we shouldn't vote the Union in. You say you have checked with HCSO and LPD, well......give me answers. No one here that is anti-union has been able to give me an answer. If someone gives me a valid reason to change the outlook of bringing in a Union, I am all ears. Just saying "don’t do it" is not good enough for me. Maybe you should think about setting up a “anti Union meeting” and explain your side of the story. Convince me :!: I’ll bring my PBA Rep too.


Yes we have checked with HCSO and LPD. Talked with the officers and not their PBA rep(s). Ask the people that are affected and not the ones making the $$$$$$ off them.

If you are worried about the At Will status within the city, then don't have sex with your co-workers and blame others for your mistakes. The majority have no problems with child behavior.





You stated "If you permit a union to infiltrate the ranks of the police department, it will tear us apart. We will no longer represent the cohesive culture that we have come to represent and will therefore become less effective as a law enforcement agency."

Oh so ganging up on other Officers (breaking labor laws) who have the right to vote is ok? That really shows how cohesive we are right? :shock:

Can you please tell me "why not the Union?" I have yet to hear someone give a vailid reason as to why not to vote a Union in. Oh I agree on the poor leadership, great quote by the way, but why not vote a union in? Please inform me of that..... and also how we will be less effective. I want answers :!: Because I have answers for what it can do...WATCH THE VIDEO.

There are some Officers who are on the fense about the Union, but have you done your research about a Union and what it can do. I hear Officers say HCSO is having problems and so is Lakeland. Have you picked up the phone and called one of there representatives and done some research to find out whats going on with them:?: Or you just going off hearsay :?: Every agency have had some bumps along the way, which were later smoothed out. We are looking towards the future with the Union and what it can do. Watch the video and educate your self what a Union can do. The video clearly states what the PBA will do.[/quote:1ufrk5ve]

Yes, a letter did come down regarding coercing..But another went out advising why...Here is why... Your union letter to the City included Sgt's and below.. They have a voice if you include them. You did not give all officer's a voice when you had your meeting. This will effect their lives here and that is wrong. The reason you did not tell certain officers is due to not wanting negative impact on your union.. If it was and is so good those who you chose not to invite might have joined. Those who you might have chose not to invite may have brought input on why not a union. We are all grown ups doing a grown up job and can make an educated decision regarding the union.. BUT you chose to try and sneak the union in for you own agenda..YOU SAY PEOPLE ARE BEING BULLIED TO NOT JOIN . BUT THE SAME IS GOING ON TO JOIN.
I HAVE NEVER HAD A PROBLEM HERE..JUST COME IN AND DO YOUR JOB..If your mad over broken promises grow up and welcome to the real world the union can't and wont fix that..By the way K-9's would have been brought up at City hall in February but now that's out the door. The union can not make them give us k-9. I HAVE YET TO HEAR A GOOD REASON WHY THE UNION. HERE IS AN IDEA FOR YOU..IF YOU WANT A UNION GOTO TPD. YOU WILL GET A RAISE AND AN UNION.. I FORGOT NO BODY ELSE WILL TAKE YOU DUE TO YOUR RESUME (WHICH IS A NICE WAY OF SAYING IT)

I agree with the letter to the mayor. All of the reasons listed are the main items that people are unhappy with. If these things could be solved without a union then I would be happy with no union, but I don't think thats gonna happen. Do you? At this point I am afraid that even if we could get these promised changes now that things would once again come to a grinding halt. We need good leadership and good representation and we are no longer getting it from the Chief and his staff. If they want a "them vs. us" relationship then the PBA evens things out for us on the low end of the totem pole. I do not believe the PBA will come in and make things perfect but at least we will have more of a say in things and can file grievances.

Do you guys remember the last time the union was being tossed around? It would have probably stuck then, however; the Chief started calling in everyone and asking them what they wanted and how things could be better if he was allowed to get these things for us. Well, now 3-4 years later the only thing that came out of that was the push bumpers. Everything was empty promises.

The cheif and his flunkies need to go.

explain it to me like i'm a third grader, what can the union actually do to help us and make a difference. from everything i've heard they can't make the city do anything, they will only hold everything up. i might be wrong but i don't see the benefit of the union. they can't make the city have a k9 unit or anything else. i hope i'm wrong because we need something

THE UNION WILL HELP YOU AND ALSO HURT YOU..ALL THESE LITTLE MISHAPS AND FOUL UPS PEOPLE DO ..NO LONGER.. GUYS WANTING TO COME IN A LITTTLE LATE CAUSE THEY WORKED A OT DETAIL..NO LONGER...WRECKING CARS AND NOTHING BEING DONE..NO LONGER.. IF YOUR CAR IS DIRTY , FAILED TO HAVE IT SERVICED WHEN IT WAS DUE, NOT CARRYING ALL EQUIPMENT AND FORMS...NO LONGER... I CAN GO ON AND ON ALL THESE WILL COME WITH WRITE UPS..AND ENOUGH WRITE UPS YOUR GONE..UNION OR NO UNION..THE UNION CAN NOT CHANGE THE AT WILL IT IS IN THE CITY FOUNDING CHARTER AND THEY WILL NOT CHANGE IT. EXAMPLE:ASK THE PCPD FIREFIGHTERS ABOUT THE UNION AND WHAT IT HAS DONE FOR THEM..THEY WANTED IT SO BAD...THE REASON CAUSE THEY HAD A CHIEF AND CAPT THAT WERE AGAINST THE TROOPS...THEY ARE NOW GONE BUT IN THE LONG RUN THE FIREFIGHTERS LOST..ASK SOME OF THE ONES WHO HAVE BEEN HERE. I KNOW THE COMPLAINTS I WORK HERE ALSO..BUT ARE YOU READY TO GO YEARS WITH NO RAISE AND POSSIBLY TAKE HOME CARS..IT WILL TAKE YEARS DONT BE FOOLED THEY WILL STALL AND STALL.. I THINK THIS WAS HANDLED WRONG IF IT IS TO FIX THE WRONGS THAT OUR WITHIN OUR DEPARTMENT. EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD SO WE CAN PUT ALL OUR THOUGHTS TOGETHER . WHAT ARE THE MAIN OBJECTIVES OF THE UNION ANYWAY???..WHAT ARE THE TOP THREE THINGS WE WANT TO GO AFTER,???, CAUSE ALL THE LITTLE STUFF WILL HAVE TO WAIT WAY DOWN THE ROAD THE UNION REP WILL TELL YOU THAT.. I HAVE ASKED PRO UNION OFFICERS THIS AND THEY ALL HAVE A DIFFERENT ANSWER WHICH LEADS ME TO THINK THAT EVERYONE IS IN IT FOR HIMSELF AND NOT THE INTEREST OF ALL AS A WHOLE.. LAY DOWN THE GROUND WORK FOR WHAT IS THE THREE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THE UNION REP WILL TELL YOU THAT MUCH.

To those who are for the union,

I understand your point of view and I appreciate your plight. I truly believe we all seek the same thing, which is equal treatment, fairness, follow through on promises and the ability to perform our duties absent the prospect of being eliminated on a whim. Our working environment is not a democracy. It is a statutorily protected dictatorship. The union cannot change that. Even with a union, the Chief and his staff still possess the power to manage the department the way they deem appropriate. We can bargain for our raises, bargain for our benefits, and bargain for our privileges, but we can’t bargain for fairness, equality, and the fulfillment of promises. Those are things that will remain regardless of the union. The majority will still be unhappy. Unfortunately we are the product of what amounts to a “lame duck” administration. These are people who are in the twilight of their careers. They are not concerned with taking actions that will make your life better. They are concerned with enforcing the policy of the Chief and making it to their retirement date. You make their jobs so much easier when you bring in a union. Now, all they have to do is use that one thousand plus page policy manual against you. It is much like a statute book; there is always something to be found to reprimand you for if you anger them. In order to make the police department a truly great place to work, we need progressive leadership. We need someone who walks among his people, praises them for their accomplishments and rewards them for a job well done. A positive attitude on the part of a leader will breed positive attitudes on the part of his people. We need a leader who stands up to the city and speaks out about the unfair insurance premiums, the cost of the retirement, and the fact that we are better than those who pick up trash and plant flowers in the medians. To be compared to professions such as those is, to say the least, insulting. We risk our lives every day, we rush toward gunfire when others run away, and we never sleep soundly because we know the next call out could be seconds away. Those reasons alone are enough to argue that we deserve more. We do not need a union. We need to unite, attend commission meetings and let the people of this community know the state of their police department. We do not need the union to bring political pressure to bear. It can be done because of who we are. People are not willing to sacrifice their safety for a few dollars and they are more than willing to let their representatives know that.

I left PCPD over ten years ago and it appears that nothing has changed there since then other than a 20 and out, better equipment and a new building. The things you guys are complaining about are the same as they were back then. If they haven't changed yet then you guys need to try something new. Like a previous poster said, if a union cannot benefit you guys then why is your administration and the city against it? If you vote in the union your first contract is very simple because you basically ask for nothing. You lock in all of your current benefits, i.e. take home cars. If the city fights you on these items it appears that they are being punitive and it can easily be ruled in your favor through arbitration. You also do a comparitive pay study with similar size agencies around the state and asked for a raise which puts you between the median and high end of those salaries. If the city cries poor then the PBA has the attorneys and accountants on retainer who can see how the city is cooking its books. Ahhha :idea: ! Now you see why the city is against the union. The city does not want all of their finances brought out to light so they will glady give you a reasonable raise. And finally if they start to nit pick and write people up. You now have Union representation in discipline matters. Ahhhha :idea: ! Now you know why the Admin is against it. If there is no documented history of write ups or discipline for trivial matters, i.e. clean car, overdue for service, etc., as someone mentioned then guess what. They are being punitive because you voted in the union and through personnel and I.A. files it can be shown that there is no history pre Union of discipline for these violations. Like others have said it will not be easy but it is neccessary if you guys ever want a voice in the decisions which effect you and your family. Good Luck.

PBA For Life

THE UNION WILL HELP YOU AND ALSO HURT YOU..ALL THESE LITTLE MISHAPS AND FOUL UPS PEOPLE DO ..NO LONGER.. GUYS WANTING TO COME IN A LITTTLE LATE CAUSE THEY WORKED A OT DETAIL..NO LONGER...WRECKING CARS AND NOTHING BEING DONE..NO LONGER.. IF YOUR CAR IS DIRTY , FAILED TO HAVE IT SERVICED WHEN IT WAS DUE, NOT CARRYING ALL EQUIPMENT AND FORMS...NO LONGER... I CAN GO ON AND ON ALL THESE WILL COME WITH WRITE UPS..AND ENOUGH WRITE UPS YOUR GONE..UNION OR NO UNION..THE UNION CAN NOT CHANGE THE AT WILL IT IS IN THE CITY FOUNDING CHARTER AND THEY WILL NOT CHANGE IT. EXAMPLE:ASK THE PCPD FIREFIGHTERS ABOUT THE UNION AND WHAT IT HAS DONE FOR THEM..THEY WANTED IT SO BAD...THE REASON CAUSE THEY HAD A CHIEF AND CAPT THAT WERE AGAINST THE TROOPS...THEY ARE NOW GONE BUT IN THE LONG RUN THE FIREFIGHTERS LOST..ASK SOME OF THE ONES WHO HAVE BEEN HERE. I KNOW THE COMPLAINTS I WORK HERE ALSO..BUT ARE YOU READY TO GO YEARS WITH NO RAISE AND POSSIBLY TAKE HOME CARS..IT WILL TAKE YEARS DONT BE FOOLED THEY WILL STALL AND STALL.. I THINK THIS WAS HANDLED WRONG IF IT IS TO FIX THE WRONGS THAT OUR WITHIN OUR DEPARTMENT. EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE BEEN TOLD SO WE CAN PUT ALL OUR THOUGHTS TOGETHER . WHAT ARE THE MAIN OBJECTIVES OF THE UNION ANYWAY???..WHAT ARE THE TOP THREE THINGS WE WANT TO GO AFTER,???, CAUSE ALL THE LITTLE STUFF WILL HAVE TO WAIT WAY DOWN THE ROAD THE UNION REP WILL TELL YOU THAT.. I HAVE ASKED PRO UNION OFFICERS THIS AND THEY ALL HAVE A DIFFERENT ANSWER WHICH LEADS ME TO THINK THAT EVERYONE IS IN IT FOR HIMSELF AND NOT THE INTEREST OF ALL AS A WHOLE.. LAY DOWN THE GROUND WORK FOR WHAT IS THE THREE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS THE UNION REP WILL TELL YOU THAT MUCH.

Yes, we have talked to the firefighters. I have yet to meet a firefighter who is against the union. Explain to me why the captains are trying so hard to get included in the union? Explain to me why firefighters are saying what they have is due to the union. Unfortuanately I think most people think the union actions are about K-9, raises, or the chief. Let's be honest, the chief has brought this department a long way during his tenure. I personally do not have anything against the chief, and this is not a personal vendetta. Do I neccessarily agree with everything the chief has done? No. This is not personal, this is business. No one disagrees, or has ever stated that the union is simply to take power from the chief and put the officers in charge. That's foolishness. What is this about? This is about having a say in our future. Having a voice in the inner workings of how things can be improved. People who say the city does not have to negotiate, have not done their homework, or just plain do not want the union. I ask this... Please educate yourselves. Will a PBA rep tell you what you want to hear? Of course they will. But you need to realize, the command staff will and has done the same. I am not anti-chief/command staff/supervisors. I am pro-union because I feel we can better our future in ways we can not without a union. I am interested in the benefits for all officers in this department. I am not in it for myself. I am in it for all officers, and their families future. Is that such a bad thing?

The firedepartment has been riding the coat tails of the Police Department for years. The only raises they get is by the Chief getting us raises. They faught to get more and was turned down, but then they agreed to take what we got. Three months late that is. What have they got that we didnt get, nothing. They went two or three years without getting a raise because they could not agree with a magic number. They pay thier dues and get nothing. Have them list what they have gotten since joining the union. Put it next to what we got. It will be the same or lower. Call me out on this. Show me what they have better then us that the union got them and if it is so great, then I'll join.

Guest 3 where have u been for the past year? The EAB at the beginning of the year kept asking everyone what can be done to make things better but no one wanted to say anything or work to make anything better. At that time the Chief was cooperative but no longer. IT IS TOO LATE. I do not think the Chief can satisfy the troops with a K-9 unit and ERT anymore.

What did the Fire Department get? How about the new ALS status and paramedic pay? How about the new equipment? I am sure its still not perfect there but they have made positive changes.

If the PBA does nothing else, it will show that we are a strong group and will give us a voice. Yes, it will probably take a couple years for any major changes but if you plan on working here for the rest of your career (and you are not one of anti-union people already in the DROP - what a joke cause if they don't like they are already retired) then PBA will eventually make a difference.

ALS unit, paramedic pay, you think the union did that. Dude, get a grip. I hope you become the president of our union. Maybe you can get up a helo, or maybe a spaceship. So I guess when the city builds a new firedepartment on the north side of town that the union will take credit for that too. Haaaa

Well lets think about the EAb how many times has someone sent in amn idea to EAB and just have it shot down I know I personally have. Why because it was not to the liking of the Chief.
It doesn't matter what the troops want it only matters what the Chief wants. Also how many times and i can tell you it has been many that after the EAB nobody seems to care about telling the troops what went on or how the meeting went. The supervisors at least give us some idea of what went on in their meeting but nobody cares enough to get back about the EAB which is supposed to be about EMPLOYEES.

What does the Chief have to do with the EAB members not getting the word out to the officers? Sounds like the problem lies with the officers, not the Chief. Funny, how much information you think you will get back from the PCPD President of the PBA, most of your EAB members are for the union anyway. In reply to the Chief shooting down ideas/wants brought up by the EAB members, he wont have to do that once you go union. You can take the little everyday grips to them and let them get shot down by the City Manager for the same reason Chief shot them down, money!!!!!!!!!

Well said, "Show me". I wonder who the President of the Plant City Chapter of the PBA will be. I hope it's not someone who post on this site, cause da dont spek or spel bery good. Hail to the President of the Plant City Chapter of the PBA. Boy, will this be great entertainment, and I won't have to pay anything, dues, to see the show. Haaaa

To all, greetings and best wishes. It appears these are tough times for my brothers in blue. Whatever side of the fence you're on, it pains me to see, hear and read about it.

Listen, I left PCPD, leaving buds that I care about and love, (yes I used the "L" word). I never once had any intention of leaving after I got the handshake hiring me. I worked hard for the department, the citizens of the city and my buddy's on the squad, all of whom I knew I could count on.

Like most of us, I put myself on the line night after night, was aggressive in going after the bad guys and always did my best for my fellow officers. Then the light came on in my head when Matt Williams was murdered by that low-life scum-bag.

Myself and I think some 12-14 other PCPD officers, maybe more, grabbed our gear and went out there to try and catch/contain that murderer, along with an estimated 400-500 other officers from all over the state. The TPD Chief and his command staff were there, various S.O. heads and command staff. I saw Chiefs from small agencies working posts with their guys but on my third post assigment, well into the night, our Chief had not shown up. Capt. Wilson was the only command staff person I saw.

That was it for leadership and support from the department and it bothered me...a lot. To add horrible and substantial insult to injury, when some 10,000 officers, some from out of the state, came to honor their fallen brother-in-arms, the Chief was nowhere to be found. An officer who asked why he wasn't there to one of the very senior officers and the group of very senior officers he was standing with, was summarily called into the Chief's office the next day and given a totally different reason he was given by the officer when he first asked. What happened to Matt Williams and the lack of leadership and genuine caring exhibited by PCPD leadership, profoundly affected me and I decided to leave. I tearfully mulled it over for a few days and decided to put in for TPD.

After Matt Williams death, I was also lied to after a promise, sealed with the gratuitous handshake, was given to me by the Chief, which proved to be false. We get fired for being untruthful/lying don't we but I guess leadership by example is a thing of the past.

Here's what I know about the PBA so far;

1. It is not perfect because it's run by people.
2. It took work and substantial effort to get to where it is today and it didn't happen over night.
3. I feel much, much, much more protected and even if your chain of command dislikes you and wants to get rid of you, they have procedures and guidelines which must be followed and you have representation every step of the way from the PBA.

So having seen and worked on both sides of the fence, regardless of the color of the grass....I say,

STICK TO YOUR GUNS....STAND SHOULDER TO SHOULDER....VOTE IN THE PBA...GO TO THE COMMISSION MEETINGS IN MASS...BE HEARD....STAND FIRM.....HOLD-FAST!

Leadership, honesty and a genuine caring for the officers who do the sweating, bleeding and sometimes dying is what is required by the Chief and his command staff and they are lacking and all but absent at PCPD.

To all, greetings and best wishes. It appears these are tough times for my brothers in blue. Whatever side of the fence you're on, it pains me to see, hear and read about it.

Listen, I left PCPD, leaving buds that I care about and love, (yes I used the "L" word). I never once had any intention of leaving after I got the handshake hiring me. I worked hard for the department, the citizens of the city and my buddy's on the squad, all of whom I knew I could count on.

Like most of us, I put myself on the line night after night, was aggressive in going after the bad guys and always did my best for my fellow officers. Then the light came on in my head when Matt Williams was murdered by that low-life scum-bag.

Myself and I think some 12-14 other PCPD officers, maybe more, grabbed our gear and went out there to try and catch/contain that murderer, along with an estimated 400-500 other officers from all over the state. The TPD Chief and his command staff were there, various S.O. heads and command staff. I saw Chiefs from small agencies working posts with their guys but on my third post assigment, well into the night, our Chief had not shown up. Capt. Wilson was the only command staff person I saw.

That was it for leadership and support from the department and it bothered me...a lot. To add horrible and substantial insult to injury, when some 10,000 officers, some from out of the state, came to honor their fallen brother-in-arms, the Chief was nowhere to be found. An officer who asked why he wasn't there to one of the very senior officers and the group of very senior officers he was standing with, was summarily called into the Chief's office the next day and given a totally different reason he was given by the officer when he first asked. What happened to Matt Williams and the lack of leadership and genuine caring exhibited by PCPD leadership, profoundly affected me and I decided to leave. I tearfully mulled it over for a few days and decided to put in for TPD.

After Matt Williams death, I was also lied to after a promise, sealed with the gratuitous handshake, was given to me by the Chief, which proved to be false. We get fired for being untruthful/lying don't we but I guess leadership by example is a thing of the past.

Here's what I know about the PBA so far;

1. It is not perfect because it's run by people.
2. It took work and substantial effort to get to where it is today and it didn't happen over night.
3. I feel much, much, much more protected and even if your chain of command dislikes you and wants to get rid of you, they have procedures and guidelines which must be followed and you have representation every step of the way from the PBA.

So having seen and worked on both sides of the fence, regardless of the color of the grass....I say,

STICK TO YOUR GUNS....STAND SHOULDER TO SHOULDER....VOTE IN THE PBA...GO TO THE COMMISSION MEETINGS IN MASS...BE HEARD....STAND FIRM.....HOLD-FAST!

Leadership, honesty and a genuine caring for the officers who do the sweating, bleeding and sometimes dying is what is required by the Chief and his command staff and they are lacking and all but absent at PCPD.

Thank you very much for your input on the union. For the small group of you who still have yet to decide on what you want, I urge you to continue speaking with members of other unions, and educate yourselves.. One thing I can recomend is this. Talk to people who are involved in the union. Not just members, who provide little to no input, and refuse to help out when needed.

Dear Show Me,
As a what I now consider former EAB member - the reason u never heard back half the time was because the Chief had to approve all the minutes before they could be posted on PICS and he wasn't that interested in it. Secondly, to be honest since approx. April the answer to each and every topic we brought up was "I will take that into consideration" or "I will look into that". I don't know any EAB members that after the first few months felt like anything was being accomplished and that we were not wasting our time.

As some of our former co-workers now at TPD have advised, the union is not perfect because it is still run by imperfect human beings. I think in the long run the union is the way to go but its not gonna be easy for the first few years and the real difference might not be seen for 5-10 years. If you plan on a long career at PCPD, its worth your while to vote YES.

The answers that you mention for the EAB have been that way for several years. Look at the last time the minutes were updated on PICS.