Do you want 2% Cola or 22% raise????

Through all the latest negoations and people pushing so hard for a 2% cola and not a huge raise it has led me to think only one thing. Those employess who have such sour tastes in their mouths from previous contracts and dealings with the city simply want a cola beacuse they are vested and are going to leave as soon as a cola is achieved. Personally I would prefer a huge raise, they can keep their cola. Rumor has it the city offered a huge raise (22% ,no cola), but why would the union tell us about that? If you dont like it, or we dont get a huge raise, we all leave to go somewhere better. Yes this is of course the beauity of America, you dont like where your at, leave. If things dont go well (soon) I'm out. The way things are here arent so bad, look at the other PD's close, not just numbers on a spread sheet. Try their detail policies, take homes, health ins, overload of paper, freedom to move from high/low crime areas, paying huge %'s into pension, or bosses that railroad you at ever turn. I havent been here long enough to be vested, not that it would matter, but I have been here through a few contracts, if Fort Lauderdale doesnt want to give us what we deserve, it will be their problem when they have no police officers or firefighters.

Rumor has it the city offered a huge raise (22% ,no cola), but why would the union tell us about that? If you dont like it, or we dont get a huge raise, we all leave to go somewhere better

For the younger guys: If the city doesn't give a large raise to be comparable to other PD's/S.O, then they will leave by the bus loads. Why stick around making $64K when you go across the county and make $13K more (wity a COLA).

The Vested guys: I could see why a COLA plays more of an important role, but they are more 'stuck' b/c they are in fact vested. They wouldn't want to lose that, but then again, they want a COLA when they retire in the next 1 - 12 years.

Should be interesting.

[Copper]

Things to think about.

Let's say the topped out officer makes $64,000 right now:
- A raise of 22% split into a 10%, 7%, 5% would yield a compounded end salary of $79,094. Thus giving the officer a $15,094.40 raise.
- Now, take an officer who retires with a $70,000 a year pension (because by the time you retire it will be around this I'm guessing). With a 2% COLA, let's say you make it 30 years on your pension. The COLA would yield a $42,000 (NOT compounded, which means this number would be higher in the end) difference over that 30 years.

Now, obviously it's all relative (when you retire, at what salary, etc). But, they've already offered a 15% raise, other than that no other offers have been put on the table from them (according to Jack, who I believe)...the rest are rumors.

Therefore, you're sacrificing the thought of a COLA for 7% (or about $4500). If the percentage number was high enough (31.5%) I would probably sacrifice my COLA and invest the difference to create my own COLA. Just some food for thought.

With a 2% COLA, let's say you make it 30 years on your pension. The COLA would yield a $42,000 (NOT compounded, which means this number would be higher in the end) difference over that 30 years.
As someone who's not even halfway to vested yet, I find myself somewhat in the middle on this. On the one hand, I have at least five more contracts in which we can get a COLA and still retire with it. (Sure, "if we don't get it now, we may never get it," I hear ya.) With that much time ahead of me, I'd really like a 21% raise now, just like Gretsas gave himself. Sure, it wouldn't land me in a million dollar condo off Ocean Lane, but still.

On the other hand, the folks on the E-board, and the most vocal guys in the union are the ones who have been here the longest. They have, I assume, been active and supported the union the longest. So why shouldn't their voices ring the loudest? Those guys want a COLA? Let's bust our a$$es and get them one now!

Most of the newer guys I associate with lean towards the latter camp (myself included). Obviously, we have serious retention issues, and if the city wants to keep the new guys, they need to make our pay competitive. I have faith that the needs of both camps are being represented by our leadership.

Perhaps I'm quixotic and drinking the Kool-Aid. To that, I say: I'd rather drink the Kool-Aid of my brothers & sisters than the flavor that Barak is chugging.

i would take the cash now, invest and make a good savings to supplement later on. 31.5% sounds good

[Barak]

Now see, there you go again Jimmy m'boy, taking an undeserved swing at me. Where/when have I ever said we don't deserve a substantial raise, COLA, increased bennies, whatever? I've consistently said we should be operating at least on an even scale w/other local agencies, and most certainly higher because of the workload we do as opposed to our fellow officers in some of the more suburban towns.

Just because my opinion on how to accomplish this differs from you and some of the other lads on this site doesn't make it wrong. Talk about drinking the kool-aid; you and some of the other fellas need to learn to have your own ideas. Perhaps you could actually come up w/one or two that might help the situation.

When are we going to start honoring our deadlines and quit messing around with this nonsense? Just because they "Didn't say anything" or didn't flat out reject it (like in the past) when we proposed the contract doesn't mean they are going to take us seriously anytime soon. 11/20/07 was the deadline and the canceled the negotiations with us. What did we do? Really I'm totally curious, what did we do? 'Cause I haven't heard anything.

I saw the billboard and that's pretty good, but canceling negotiations on the last day of good faith is kind of a slap in the face. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I understand that there are a few other things that are in the works to stick it to the city but we really have to turn up the heat and not stop if we want them to take us seriously. We can't back off any until we get what we want.

I thought that if on 11/20/07 that if something good didn't transpire then we were going to drop the hammer. Well?

Keep in mind this post was not meant to anger anyone and incite them to attempt them to unmask me like the AlCalde attempts to unmask Zorro. I'm just asking questions.

j-cop, when was the last time you went to a general meeting?

When are we going to start honoring our deadlines and quit messing around with this nonsense? Just because they "Didn't say anything" or didn't flat out reject it (like in the past) when we proposed the contract doesn't mean they are going to take us seriously anytime soon. 11/20/07 was the deadline and the canceled the negotiations with us. What did we do? Really I'm totally curious, what did we do? 'Cause I haven't heard anything.

I think patience in this situation is worth more than rash action. At the last meeting (for those of you work or volunteer at a soup kitchen on Tuesday nights), there was some hope. The word was that someone may be changing his tune, and we need to let that take its course. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and if we don't take everything in context, we could burn a valuable opportunity. It would feel good to give the city the finger and I would be able to get a lot of work done on that novel, but our leadership has determined that it is not "prudent at this here juncture." And they spend hours sitting around considering this stuff.

That's my perspective at least.

(barak sucks)

j-cop, when was the last time you went to a general meeting?

To be honest with you I have missed the last 2 meetings, which have been the most important.

I get there when I can considering I work tuesday nights. So until they start broad casting them on C-span, I guess I'll keep getting the info. 2nd hand from union reps. who attend the meetings, if they are giving me the wrong info. then there is an obvious problem.

If you have any valuable information to provide me, then do so, and if I'm wrong in what I have said, then correct me. I'm here to get the correct information and to become more informed because I can't always get to the meetings.

If you suggest that I hold a call or take my 40 to attend the meetings, well I do that when I can but it doesn't always work out that way.

Thanks for asking. :shock: :shock:

[quote="J-cop":1bnrjxy6]When are we going to start honoring our deadlines and quit messing around with this nonsense? Just because they "Didn't say anything" or didn't flat out reject it (like in the past) when we proposed the contract doesn't mean they are going to take us seriously anytime soon. 11/20/07 was the deadline and the canceled the negotiations with us. What did we do? Really I'm totally curious, what did we do? 'Cause I haven't heard anything.

I think patience in this situation is worth more than rash action. At the last meeting (for those of you work or volunteer at a soup kitchen on Tuesday nights), there was some hope. The word was that someone may be changing his tune, and we need to let that take its course. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and if we don't take everything in context, we could burn a valuable opportunity. It would feel good to give the city the finger and I would be able to get a lot of work done on that novel, but our leadership has determined that it is not "prudent at this here juncture." And they spend hours sitting around considering this stuff.

That's my perspective at least.

(barak sucks)[/quote:1bnrjxy6]


SOUNDS LIKE STALLING TECH SO THE HOLIDAY CRIME STATS DON'T GO THRU THE CEILING WATCH ON JAN 3RD THEY'LL TELL US TO POUND SALT!

[quote="J-cop":125scnth]When are we going to start honoring our deadlines and quit messing around with this nonsense? Just because they "Didn't say anything" or didn't flat out reject it (like in the past) when we proposed the contract doesn't mean they are going to take us seriously anytime soon. 11/20/07 was the deadline and the canceled the negotiations with us. What did we do? Really I'm totally curious, what did we do? 'Cause I haven't heard anything.

I think patience in this situation is worth more than rash action. At the last meeting (for those of you work or volunteer at a soup kitchen on Tuesday nights), there was some hope. The word was that someone may be changing his tune, and we need to let that take its course. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and if we don't take everything in context, we could burn a valuable opportunity. It would feel good to give the city the finger and I would be able to get a lot of work done on that novel, but our leadership has determined that it is not "prudent at this here juncture." And they spend hours sitting around considering this stuff.

That's my perspective at least.

(barak sucks)[/quote:125scnth]

I agree prudence is the key but the 20th was supposed to be D-Day, man. What if we didn't Land in Normandy in WWII? The NAZIs would have won? Do you want the NAZIs to win Jimmy?

Yea, giving the city the finger would be great but this isn't about raw emotion or what makes us feel good at the time, its about keeping pressure on the city. I too think the city not rejecting our proposal could be a stall tactic before the holidays and the boat parade to keep crime states down.

I think we have been nothing but patient with a city government that seems to be totally inept in every aspect when it comes to running a city, little loan negotiating a contract.

I guess I would believe anything the city from the city that's in "good faith" until its signed on paper and legally binding.

Oh, and for the record the 22% raise sounds great to me.

I guess I would believe anything the city from the city that's in "good faith" until its signed on paper and legally binding.

Translation into coherent thought:

I wouldn't believe anything from the city that's in "good faith" until it's signed on paper and legally binding.

22 % isn't nearly enough without a COLA! That won't even make us top paid.

[Barak]

Hey Mcnulty, go suck the sweat out of the crack of my rear end. Grow up & recognize we all don't have to march in a straight line jackass. Better yet, go hide in the same back alley you've been hiding in your whole career.

First off, the figure I'm hearing is higher than 22%. It's more in tune with around 27-28%. It sounds as if the city commission, along with the White Plains Mafia, will never in a million years give us a COLA. We DON’T have the votes…Not even close. Now, if these idiots are willing to boost our pay to tops in the Tri-County, and possibly all of Florida, but without a COLA, I’m going to give it some serious consideration. Also, there is talk that they might give us an extra DROP year. The money you would make in that extra year would be greater than any 2% COLA. Now, of course there is the fact that who the hell wants to stay in this rats nest any longer than they have to, but that’s a different discussion.
For those of you who are infatuated with Coral Springs latest contract, let me ask you this…Do you want to pay 14% of your salary into your pension, because that’s what they just agreed to. No THANKS!!
I ask everyone to let the negotiations play out. Many of you know who I am and you know I am itching for a WAR, but you never win a war by rushing into things. Contracts are never settled quickly. This one may not be settled until Jan or Feb. Right now, King George is the only one who can convince the city commission to vote yes for us (with the exception of Scumbag Moore). If he fails, then we shut this city down. I think though, for the first time, they are realizing that. The chief is scared. Good, he should be. King George is hiding under his desk. These clowns are in way over their head and Jack and Mike are taking it to them every day. Believe me when I say that my patience is wearing down fast too, but when for the first time the jackoff your negotiating with starts to see the light, you don’t kick him in the nuts.
It’s quite simple. Would you rather go to war and get nothing, or wait just a bit longer and possibly be one of the highest paid in Florida? There is always time for war, and when that time comes, believe me, I’ll be leading the charge.

“They’ll bury him in the press”
“What press?”
“The Boca Breeze”
“Pinko-Commie Rag!!”

22 % isn't nearly enough without a COLA! That won't even make us top paid.

You are correct! That tops us out at $77,954. I say we keep pushing for the 31.5% with a C.O.L.A.

But the question was what do you prefer a 22% raise or a 2% cola.

I, of course, want the 31.5% with a COLA, a pension COLA, longevity, a $1200 uniform allowance, 5% pay increase for midnights, 5% pay increase for specialty units and detective bureau, and hazard pay for SWAT. You know like most every other department in the tri-county area.

We are the biggest in Broward we used to be the best. I think we can be the best again, but its up to us what we push for and what we hold out for. We deserve to be top paid, have the best benefits, and the most advanced technology. God knows we have the tax base for it and with a $50 million reserve in the bank earning interest the city has the cash on hand to do it.

To put it in perspective $ 1 million at 5% apr is $50,000 a year. So what is $50 million at 5% apr? It's $2.5 Million a year. So, the city crying that they don't have the money to give us the contract that we deserve is B.S.

We can't just sit up and beg every time they decide to throw us a scrap from the table and act like they're doing us a favor by letting us keep something we already have (i.e. new hires not going to FRS/us keeping our details). That's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

If there are those in the inside that are on our side now, great. I hope so. The sooner this B.S. is over the better. Then we can move on to fighting the micromanaging, the nonsense/B.S. investigations, and poor working conditions. A good contract is just the tip of the iceberg.

I'll believe what the city is selling when I see the results in my pay check. Until then I think that holding up our end for deadlines and the like is paramount. I've spoken to others that feel the same way. I just want the best contract possible, we deserve it.

Are you willing to pay 14% of your salary to get that COLA? I'm not. As for some of the other things you mentioned like shift and assignment pay, those things are in the works too. I agree with everything you said and I've been itching for a war for a long time, but just give it a bit more time. I know, I know....its always more time. I agree, but if time is what the E-Board is asking for, then I trust that their doing the right thing.

"No bagel, No bagel, no bagel, no bagel, no bagel, no bagel....."

First off, the figure I'm hearing is higher than 22%. It's more in tune with around 27-28%. It sounds as if the city commission, along with the White Plains Mafia, will never in a million years give us a COLA. We DON’T have the votes…Not even close. Now, if these idiots are willing to boost our pay to tops in the Tri-County, and possibly all of Florida, but without a COLA, I’m going to give it some serious consideration. Also, there is talk that they might give us an extra DROP year. The money you would make in that extra year would be greater than any 2% COLA. Now, of course there is the fact that who the hell wants to stay in this rats nest any longer than they have to, but that’s a different discussion.
For those of you who are infatuated with Coral Springs latest contract, let me ask you this…Do you want to pay 14% of your salary into your pension, because that’s what they just agreed to. No THANKS!!
I ask everyone to let the negotiations play out. Many of you know who I am and you know I am itching for a WAR, but you never win a war by rushing into things. Contracts are never settled quickly. This one may not be settled until Jan or Feb. Right now, King George is the only one who can convince the city commission to vote yes for us (with the exception of Scumbag Moore). If he fails, then we shut this city down. I think though, for the first time, they are realizing that. The chief is scared. Good, he should be. King George is hiding under his desk. These clowns are in way over their head and Jack and Mike are taking it to them every day. Believe me when I say that my patience is wearing down fast too, but when for the first time the jackoff your negotiating with starts to see the light, you don’t kick him in the nuts.
It’s quite simple. Would you rather go to war and get nothing, or wait just a bit longer and possibly be one of the highest paid in Florida? There is always time for war, and when that time comes, believe me, I’ll be leading the charge.

“They’ll bury him in the press”
“What press?”
“The Boca Breeze”
“Pinko-Commie Rag!!”

26

But what if the itch is so bad that even talcum powder won't help?

Its just hard to trust the guy that's been kicking us in the nuts this whole time, and now, after a year has decided that there is a problem. I understand what you are saying, and I agree with it. I know you understand my skepticism and frustration.

Are you willing to pay 14% of your salary to get that COLA? I'm not. As for some of the other things you mentioned like shift and assignment pay, those things are in the works too. I agree with everything you said and I've been itching for a war for a long time, but just give it a bit more time. I know, I know....its always more time. I agree, but if time is what the E-Board is asking for, then I trust that their doing the right thing.

"No bagel, No bagel, no bagel, no bagel, no bagel, no bagel....."

Paying 14% into the pension would defeat the purpose of the 2% cola. I wasn't aware that with springs new contract they paid in that high. I thought that they had agreed at 9.5%. But that is neither here nor there because I work here. I want to continue but require incentive. Patience is not one of my strong suits, but I'll hang in there.

"chesnuts are lazy"

[Barak]

I want to apologize for my last post concerning Mcnulty, mostly because I lowered myself to his level but more importantly because it violated the spirit of this great holiday. Again my apologies- I shouldn't write when I'm angry.

Art makes some excellent points, especially in regards to some of the economic issues & how the union has handled the dealings w/the city so far. Let's not forget we only contribute 6% to pension. That's a pretty good deal & thankfully, the union was able to convince the city to increase the multiplier a few years back, thereby allowing us to max out earlier.

I think one of the other things we need to remember is how long it takes for us to top out vs. so many of the other agencies. I think it's 6 years for us but most of the other places you're looking at 7-11 years so don't be conned by some of the packages other agencies bargained for.

We pay 7% not 6.

[Barak]

ok 7%, my bad still better than 11 or 14% like some others pay into their pension

I agree prudence is the key but the 20th was supposed to be D-Day, man. What if we didn't Land in Normandy in WWII? The NAZIs would have won? Do you want the NAZIs to win Jimmy?
I almost don't want to give credit to this comparison by bringing it up, but... The Nazi's were an organized force that, for a couple of years, conquered western Europe (and killed millions of innocent people). We're only dealing with stubborn group of myopic misers who are bitter at us for reasons unknown. I'd rather not overestimate their historical significance. The only parallel I can see would be the over-reaching and incompetence towards the end. But Gretsas is yet to have his "invasion of Stalingrad" moment, so we'll see.

Hey Mcnulty, go suck the sweat out of the crack of my rear end. Grow up & recognize we all don't have to march in a straight line jackarse. Better yet, go hide in the same back alley you've been hiding in your whole career....

I want to apologize for my last post concerning Mcnulty, mostly because I lowered myself to his level but more importantly because it violated the spirit of this great holiday. Again my apologies- I shouldn't write when I'm angry.
I didn't think two words, some tryptophan and a six-pack would reveal your true colors so easily. Your back-handed apology is accepted, in the spirit of the holiday season. (bouchedag) Now back to my "back alley." Of course, that's where you find all the good stuff anyway...

I can't say this enough, the city's last offer is 5/5/5 with switching new employees to the state pension period. Any rumors other than that are false. You can keep playing on these websites telling the city exactly what you will settle for instead of just calling me for the truth.

The answer to the question posed in this thread is both: We deserve a COLA, just like every other department in the area, and a high raise (21% or more) as our Officers work harder than anyone else in the county.

Don't settle for one or the other when YOU deserve to have both. If both are not competitively given to your for the services you provide, find another employer who recognizes your contributions and fairly compensates you for it.

Simple economics is what the city has failed to realize.

[quote="J-cop":3713uj3m]I agree prudence is the key but the 20th was supposed to be D-Day, man. What if we didn't Land in Normandy in WWII? The NAZIs would have won? Do you want the NAZIs to win Jimmy?
I almost don't want to give credit to this comparison by bringing it up, but... The Nazi's were an organized force that, for a couple of years, conquered western Europe (and killed millions of innocent people). We're only dealing with stubborn group of myopic misers who are bitter at us for reasons unknown. I'd rather not overestimate their historical significance. The only parallel I can see would be the over-reaching and incompetence towards the end. But Gretsas is yet to have his "invasion of Stalingrad" moment, so we'll see.[/quote:3713uj3m]

I guess a poor joke on my part. I guess not enough time in history has passed. I apologize if I offended anyone with an off comment.

[quote="Jimmy McNulty":3kngzql0][quote="J-cop":3kngzql0]I agree prudence is the key but the 20th was supposed to be D-Day, man. What if we didn't Land in Normandy in WWII? The NAZIs would have won? Do you want the NAZIs to win Jimmy?
I almost don't want to give credit to this comparison by bringing it up, but... The Nazi's were an organized force that, for a couple of years, conquered western Europe (and killed millions of innocent people). We're only dealing with stubborn group of myopic misers who are bitter at us for reasons unknown. I'd rather not overestimate their historical significance. The only parallel I can see would be the over-reaching and incompetence towards the end. But Gretsas is yet to have his "invasion of Stalingrad" moment, so we'll see.[/quote:3kngzql0]

I guess a poor joke on my part. I guess not enough time in history has passed. I apologize if I offended anyone with an off comment.[/quote:3kngzql0]

Amen, brother.
Hey jimmy how about taking a class in detecting sarcasim? This isn't the first time a joke has gone over your fat head. While you're at it, why don't you and Barak get a room and burn off some Of that sexual tension you guys have built up.

Anyone leaving? I thought not. Keep posting during your 12 hours per week off and when THE MAN walks by you....show proper respect like all of you do. Keep typing but more important to this issue, keep smiling. :lol:

Unless they are offering to double your pay always take the cola it is worth more in the long run. Unfortunately cities count on the young officers wanting the quick cash. If you're in this for the long haul and are planning a career at FLPD take the cola and God Bless you for protecting us.

Amen, brother.
Hey jimmy how about taking a class in detecting sarcasim? This isn't the first time a joke has gone over your fat head. While you're at it, why don't you and Barak get a room and burn off some Of that sexual tension you guys have built up.
Oh whatever. It's all in good fun. And I was being sarcastic myself. (zee whole country vas on vacation from 1939 to 1945! Noth-zing bad happen!)

<html code for sarcasm> And Barak isn't man enough for me.<end sarcasm>

[Barak]

Shoot, for once, you've got that right. Perhaps I can give you DavidH's or GeorgeG's ph. #?