Operational Lieutenant

Has anyone heard anything on this recently. And does anyoe out there truly understand the idea behind this. I can see having three FLT's on each side and splitting the districts two each, but assigned to districts and rotating schedules makes no sense at all. I am sure that two of the three current FLT's dont want a rotating schedule nor being assigned to one district. And where does that leave the admin SGT's. What will their role be with two LT's now in each district.

I recently heard the Undersheriff say that next year we will have a tighter budget that could affect vacant positions. Just like in our home budgets, the Sheriff must prioritize the spending within the agency.

Do we really need all of the Commanders?

If the budget is going to be so tight that it affects our ability to fill vacancies, maybe we should postpone the new operational lieutenants positions.

I saw a posting for full time swat. is that realy a priority in a tight budget year.

You notice the captains and chiefs are funding their pet projects while telling the deputies "no overtime". If the admin is reading this, please prioritize your pet projects before cutting out our over time. the new field sup positions can wait a couple of years so i dont have to start eating cat food.

[Curios George]

I agree! Leave the Field Lt's alone. They need to stay the way they are. Four is enough to get the job done.

As for SWAT, this is not Miami; do we really need a full time SWAT unit? They hardly ever have a call-out during regular working hours and yet they all work Monday thru Friday, with weekends and holidays off. They may get 4 call-outs a year and most are at night. We should do like most agencies and make them Part-Time.

I would rather see the positions go to Aviation. Those poor guys can not catch a break. They cover 365 days 7/24 with only 2 working pilots (Night shift) and 2 on-call pilots (Day shift). We get more for our money with the Aviation Unit compared to SWAT.

And I never see our pilots looking at themselves through the reflection of glass windows as they pass by!!

It’s time to streamline and clean house in Special Operations :!:

Given the direction in this county, we need a full time swat team more than ever. you say that this is not miami, well you are right, but it is almost like miami. besides that, if full time swat gets disbanded, then the next thing you will hear is 'why are the guys on the shift leaving for a call out? it leaves us short, why are they training twice a month, etc. etc.' swat is something that needs to stay in place. as far as working monday through friday with holidays off, so does bailiff, yrd, shocap, warrants, and the list goes on. but, when swat is off, they still have to be ready to deploy in a moments notice, unable to partake in the usual holiday 'festivities' so they can be ready to save peoples butts. and do not forget that there are the ones that work holidays and weekends to do jobs that others simply will not or can not do. its a tough job that few can do.

and another thing, i fully agree that aviation is in dire need of more people. those guys are great and do all they can with the limited people they have. if not for airwolf, there would not be the numbers caught that we have.

[veteranrookie]

I say we arm those helicopters...no better yet, let's tie some of those full-time SWAT guys to the skids on every sortie they fly. Then when our kick-butt aviation guys find these suspects they just deploy some SWAT and all is good!!

The first Florida agency to have a full-time Air Assault unit by combining two units into one.

Man I should be in admin with these ideas!

I think we all agree we need a full time SWAT team as well as more pilots in aviation. But do we really need 6 FLT's each assigned to thier own district. I have yet to read anything that convinces me of that during this time of budget restraint and cutting costs.

to m8ke district lieutenants all commadores

no it is not miami. they have tactical teams not a competition one.

CCSO's swat team is an elite unit. People can talk all the smack they want, but when it comes down to it...I would want them to go into a house with me rather than some of you that NEVER train, go to the range once a year, and have 30 percent body fat. Get real. We only really need them once...right!! The time we don't have them is the time we fail.

i'd rather have a bunch of fat smart guys on my team.

[DevilDogg]

Fat smart guys, now THAT is funny. :P What is this? CIB?

If it's a competition team, why is it that we have members on the FSA and NTOA boards? Believe me, it aint just because we can compete with the best. But, by all means, if YOU can become an asset to the Team, please try out. We could always use more cross country runners for competition.

Oh, and by the way, last year at the International SWAT Round-Up, our Team took 5th in the world of over 70 competing teams. Not to mention a couple more 1st place accomplishments in other events.

Nice try guest, you 'almost' got my blood up. :twisted:

ONCE AGAIN MORONS HAVE TURNED A THREAD THAT WAS ABOUT OPERATIONAL LIEUTENANT INTO A MUD SLING FEST ABOUT SOMTHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

I feel that the additional Lt positions is a joke.. Ask anyone of the current Field Lt's and they will tell you that they are doing good with what they have.. Ahhh yes but the age old question that seems to plague our Command staff .. How do we better OURSELVES and not the agency as a whole... I love working for this agency, couldn't imagine myself doing anything else but sometimes the moronic desicions have me scratching my head.

As far as SWAT goes.. Yes we need them, yes they are top notch, yes they have one numerous awards... BUT when they aren't on a call out do they really train 86 hours a pay period? Can they go into other districts that are getting slammed and maybe pick up a call here and there (P.S. that goes to all other specialized units as well)??

I THINK I ALMOST AGREE with the previous post. SWAT is a necessity at CCSO. There are down times that those guys could be serving warrants like most other departments do. How about taking over the warrant's squad and serving the warrants. I know my post will get someone's blood a boiling. My reasoning for mentioning the warrant's thing is...the SWAT guys are well trained in entrys and tactical approaches. Why not let them take these criminal's (Felony and high risks) into custody?!

PS: CCSO is a great place to work. I bittttch here and there, but overall it is a solid and secure place. I wish more of the LEO Affairs guys realized that.

[Hughjorgan]

[DevilDogg"]Fat smart guys, now THAT is funny. :P What is this? CIB?

I take exception to this DD.

We are not that smart!!! :wink:

[DevilDogg]

Hugh, I apologize. I guess I shoulda said CID instead. But, you guys are pretty smart!

Back on the original topic. Adding Operation LT's to each district is definitely overkill. The money and personnel could be utilized more efficiently elsewhere. If you kept the FLT's the way they currently are and assigned them to a respective region on a two week rotation with the COMSAT period they would stay current on whats happening in their regions. Aren't most districts assigning their zones that way now anyhow. Makes sense and allows the FLT's to handle whatever issues arise during that period with consistency. And when one of the FLT's is on PDO, have a senior SGT from that region they are assigned to during that period fill in. Seems realistic to me.

[veteranrookie]

Back on the original topic. Adding Operation LT's to each district is definitely overkill. The money and personnel could be utilized more efficiently elsewhere. If you kept the FLT's the way they currently are and assigned them to a respective region on a two week rotation with the COMSAT period they would stay current on whats happening in their regions. Aren't most districts assigning their zones that way now anyhow. Makes sense and allows the FLT's to handle whatever issues arise during that period with consistency. And when one of the FLT's is on PDO, have a senior SGT from that region they are assigned to during that period fill in. Seems realistic to me.

Is more operational control necessarily a bad thing? I don't know the answer to that question, being at the bottom of the food chain (so to speak). I can understand the reasons for wanting to have more FLT's to cover less area. I can also understand relieving some of the already large workloads these few FLT's have, too. At this point I guess we all get to wait and see whether or not it is implemented properly. Whatever happens, I know the group of guys I work with will adapt and overcome any foreseen problems it may or may not cause.

"large workload"......hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[veteranrookie]

"large workload"......hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Hey, that's why they get the big bucks right?

yeah....you ever see JM wear a vest when he was a Fld Lt?

It's about priorities, gentlemen. We may have a need for additional field supervisors one day, but today we are faced with shrinking budgets and the need for intelligent prioritizing of our budget. Let's do the right thing here and give this a second look. Any unbiased third party can see the folly in the timing of this decision. The only people who favor this are the Patrol Command staff, the district lieutenants(because it will help them get promoted to Commander) and the few sergeants who think they have a chance at one of the added positions.

Do what's right. It may be difficult, but it's still right.

Guest:
Could not have said it better, although I am not sure that all of the district LT's are in favor of this as of right now there is no plan to make them Commanders. Making the District Lieutenants Commanders is in the long range plan down the road and then what do you do ? Wand them all to Commander or open it up to those LT's who have been LT's awhile. There are some LT's who have been LT's longer than some of the substation LT's have been with CCSO. As you said, any unbiased third party along with anyone who has common sense can see this decision and what it is based on. As the saying goes, if it ain't broke dont fix it. Seems like we are trying to re-invent something here at an additional cost that is not needed. Take that money and give all the current members another pay adjustment. Doubt with the budget cuts we will be seeing one of those anytime soon other than our annual merit and Oct COL.

Fiscal Responsibility---thats what it is all about..............

I agree, since we received 2 increases this year and not 3.
We always received on in October, one in January, and one on our anniversary.
And now the OT is getting scarce, Home Depot here we come!

I feel that the additional Lt positions is a joke.. Ask anyone of the current Field Lt's and they will tell you that they are doing good with what they have.. Ahhh yes but the age old question that seems to plague our Command staff .. How do we better OURSELVES and not the agency as a whole... I love working for this agency, couldn't imagine myself doing anything else but sometimes the moronic desicions have me scratching my head.

As far as SWAT goes.. Yes we need them, yes they are top notch, yes they have one numerous awards... BUT when they aren't on a call out do they really train 86 hours a pay period? Can they go into other districts that are getting slammed and maybe pick up a call here and there (P.S. that goes to all other specialized units as well)??

SWAT does go into districts and pick up calls and do proactive police work....if you would stop guarding the sub's refrigerator for a bit, and listen to the radio, you would hear them out and about.

I have been on night for 5 years seen them pick up a few s52 and 12s never saw them take paper, but there are only 5 think... and there busy training. or chasing skirts. i guess.

Specialized units shouldnt have to take paper. Look, if you hump a zone, you take the paper, if you want to be on call and respond out Friday night at 7pm when your getting ready to take your wife to dinner and then again at 3am on a sunday morning, then you can join SWAT and not take paper.

you go tell the sheriff that you don't take paper because you are on swat.....hahahahahahhahaha

Specialized units shouldnt have to take paper. Look, if you hump a zone, you take the paper, if you want to be on call and respond out Friday night at 7pm when your getting ready to take your wife to dinner and then again at 3am on a sunday morning, then you can join SWAT and not take paper.

Are you really serious? I'm on call 24 - 7 and am not too lazy to take a little paper once in a while. I don't think you should have to constantly respond to call and take reports, but you should have the necessary paperwork in your car; so, you can pick up a report when necessary. If you are really in SWAT you are probably in good shape, but you are obviously a lazy slacker.

Specialized units shouldnt have to take paper. Look, if you hump a zone, you take the paper, if you want to be on call and respond out Friday night at 7pm when your getting ready to take your wife to dinner and then again at 3am on a sunday morning, then you can join SWAT and not take paper.

Are you really serious? I'm on call 24 - 7 and am not too lazy to take a little paper once in a while. I don't think you should have to constantly respond to call and take reports, but you should have the necessary paperwork in your car; so, you can pick up a report when necessary. If you are really in SWAT you are probably in good shape, but you are obviously a lazy slacker.

I'm not in SWAT..not a lazy slacker either...I hump a zone. If a Specialized unit wants to pick up a writer..fine. If not, thats OK too. Its not their job. They dont call me when they need an extra body at a suicidal person call at 3am when I'm at home.

[quote="guest*(*":cj46n3yq]I feel that the additional Lt positions is a joke.. Ask anyone of the current Field Lt's and they will tell you that they are doing good with what they have.. Ahhh yes but the age old question that seems to plague our Command staff .. How do we better OURSELVES and not the agency as a whole... I love working for this agency, couldn't imagine myself doing anything else but sometimes the moronic desicions have me scratching my head.

As far as SWAT goes.. Yes we need them, yes they are top notch, yes they have one numerous awards... BUT when they aren't on a call out do they really train 86 hours a pay period? Can they go into other districts that are getting slammed and maybe pick up a call here and there (P.S. that goes to all other specialized units as well)??

SWAT does go into districts and pick up calls and do proactive police work....if you would stop guarding the sub's refrigerator for a bit, and listen to the radio, you would hear them out and about.[/quote:cj46n3yq]

Nothing in our fridge.. sorry.. Don't like hanging out in the sub... Hear SWAT every now and then on the radio... As far as picking up paper, its good training, if you don't use it every now and then, you will forget what is required... Now I don't expect them to pick up anything big but an accident report? Oh yeah I will deliver a short form to ya!!

JJ for LT.

JJ for LT.

thanks JJ...........

I hear swat on the radio checking out on 41 C since they can adjust there schedule to work details when ever!!!!!!!!!

[quote="Curios George"]I agree! Leave the Field Lt's alone. They need to stay the way they are. Four is enough to get the job done.

As for SWAT, this is not Miami; do we really need a full time SWAT unit? They hardly ever have a call-out during regular working hours and yet they all work Monday thru Friday, with weekends and holidays off. They may get 4 call-outs a year and most are at night. We should do like most agencies and make them Part-Time.

I would rather see the positions go to Aviation. Those poor guys can not catch a break. They cover 365 days 7/24 with only 2 working pilots (Night shift) and 2 on-call pilots (Day shift). We get more for our money with the Aviation Unit compared to SWAT.

And I never see our pilots looking at themselves through the reflection of glass windows as they pass by!!

It’s time to streamline and clean house in Special Operations

Man, it sure sounds like you guys need a union to right that ship! Good luck!!