MEETING AGENDA

FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE #31
GENERAL MEETING
ANNOUNCEMENT


DATE: OCTOBER 30, 2007 (TUESDAY)
TIME: 8:00 P.M.
PLACE: P.O.A. HALL
4500 SW 13 Street
Ft. Lauderdale
**Dinner will be served prior to the meeting**

AGENDA: •Motion to approve President to begin discussions with the Broward Sheriffs Office
•Contract Update

•Open Agenda

Its about time!

With any luck Lamberti will be designated Sheriff by Crist and we all can lateral over and join his band of Merry Men and Women. I don't know what it feels like to work for a bonifide LEO. Ours is a Chief who has really lost his way and lives in a fantasy world. Hopefully he'll find one last shred of personal honor and leave (no, you can't find it in your wallet) so the agency can begin a recovery.

Maybe we all could get back to some real police work, not this nonsense we are currently involved in.

City Commission and chief, thanks for shutting down the jail. Isn't a Chief suppossed to see the big picture? The picture currently is a city overrun by homeless living dead who steal and burglarize anything in their sights. With the jail closed BSO NTA's them and their out on the streets doing it again a few hours later. No more being locked up in the gray bar hotel for a few weeks so they arnt out doing more crimes. The quality of life in the city has gone down the crapper. The jail existed to prevent this. The Broken Window theory, the Chief broke the window and threw that book out the window, now the horde of derelicts is climbing over the sill looting and pillaging.

Thanks for being so short sighted in the jail closing and for taking a raise the year the rest of us lost $1500.00 in furlough days without a raise.

Listen, I'm not a pro-chief or admin guy, so don't take this the wrong way, but explain how BSO will solve the problems you're describing.
Real police work?...you think we're understaffed now, and consequently going to call to call at this point. BSO would spread us so thin you can forget doing any proactive work since there will be 40 S/22's and S/38's holding.
I know that it's not Jenne anymore, but sheriff's offices are infamous for corruption: (i.e. the sheriff being able to promote anyone he wants to the appointed positions without qualifications etc.....and yes I know this place isn't much better in that regard).
The zombies will still be out at 3am lurking in the darkness, preying on the sheep if BSO takes us over....the stats prove that fact whenever BSO takes over a city.
Not that I really care about the crime rates in Ft. Lauderdale, I don't live there (the paper would love to take that quote out of context, right?).
Anyway, BSO would be better in some instances, but for the purposes you're describing it doesn't make sense.

Listen, I'm not a pro-chief or admin guy, so don't take this the wrong way, but explain how BSO will solve the problems you're describing.
Real police work?...you think we're understaffed now, and consequently going to call to call at this point. BSO would spread us so thin you can forget doing any proactive work since there will be 40 S/22's and S/38's holding.
I know that it's not Jenne anymore, but sheriff's offices are infamous for corruption: (i.e. the sheriff being able to promote anyone he wants to the appointed positions without qualifications etc.....and yes I know this place isn't much better in that regard).
The zombies will still be out at 3am lurking in the darkness, preying on the sheep if BSO takes us over....the stats prove that fact whenever BSO takes over a city.
Not that I really care about the crime rates in Ft. Lauderdale, I don't live there (the paper would love to take that quote out of context, right?).
Anyway, BSO would be better in some instances, but for the purposes you're describing it doesn't make sense.

SPREAD THIN? Nobody in the county is spread as thin as us. On any given midnight shift you can hear the guys in District 3 requesting back ups from BSo and Lauderhill because they don't have enough in the city. And BSO and Lauderhill always have someone there for them. My vote is lets go!

"With the jail closed BSO NTA's them and their out on the streets doing it again a few hours later."

So if we go to BSO we just skip the middle man and just N.T.A. them? Then they're right back on the street again burglarizing and stealing. Where the hell is your logic? Us going to BSO isn't going to create more room in the county jail, and you know BSO won't bring our jail back up online. Even if BSO wanted to, it wouldn't get approved by the state because our whole building is falling apart.


In 2004, it was "NO TO BSO." Now, just 3 years later its the best thing ever? Yea, things suck but going to BSO isn't going to fix the problems.

You know pretty much every other local p.d. that has gone to BSO is screaming to have their own pd again. BSO doesn't want us, we're too big. Look at the nightmare that pompano created by going to BSO.

BSO is like a warm glass of piss water that has been passed around the county and tasted by other p.d.'s and they agree that its piss water. And you think it's going to be a cool refreshing glass of lemonade for us? NO! PISS WATER IS PISS WATER!!

All of you people who were worried about the city taking over our details, what do you think BSO is going to do if we go to them? Well, they'll take over our details. So its not ok if our city takes over the details, but its ok if BSO takes over the details? Again where is the logic?

All you Al Lamberti fans out there, do you really think the guy is in for the long haul? He has 29 years on the job. I think he sees the light at the end of the tunnel. Then what happens if we go to BSO and someone like Jenne ends up as sheriff? Jesus, it could even be George Gretsas.

As far as District 3 midnights requesting back up from BSO and Lauderhill, its usually the other way around. Last week units from dist. 2 and 3 had to sit on a perimeter for BSO for a S 41/33 because they didn't have the people for a perimeter. Our K-9 units had to set up the perimeter for them. Yea, BSO is 10-8!!! They did manage to have the helicopter out flying around though.

If there are units requesting back ups from other cities its because District 3 mids usually has 2 Bravo units 10-6 on "Action Plans," which also seems to mean to these officers in the Bravo cars "10-6 no 10-94. Let's make an open container arrest and spend 3 hours on that." Yea, there's alot of buddy screwing on 3 mids. I imagine it goes on else were, but I cant account for that, nor can I account for things I hear on the radio once or twice as being the norm. I can only account for what I experience. The rumor mill is out of control here.


The thing is we dont take care of ourselves, we couldn't get people to show up to the commission meeting. We don't do anything to help ourselves. We just *****, moan, complain, and turn on each other. How will BSO help that? Besides they're in the middle of a union war? Do they even had a contract yet? Last I heard they were settling for a one year with a 3% C.O.L.A.? Who knows.

Besides our Union can't just vote to go to BSO, the city has to be on board also. We can vote to go to BSO all we want. We can vote a no confidence in the chief all we want. We can vote a no confidence in the city manager all we want. The fact is our vote in these matters doesn't mean a thing. It just further shows were not happy.

Hell, I give up, if we all vote to go BSO it be the first thing in along time that we did together. To Hell with showing up when the union leadership needs and supporting eachother. We'll just continue with the, "I got mine. Screw you. Who's with me?" attitude. It's working so well for us.

For all of you that want to go to BSO put in an application, they're hiring again.

"With the jail closed BSO NTA's them and their out on the streets doing it again a few hours later."

So if we go to BSO we just skip the middle man and just N.T.A. them?

In 2004, it was "NO TO BSO." Now, just 3 years later its the best thing ever? Yea, things suck but going to BSO isn't going to fix the problems.

BSO is like a warm glass of piss water that has been passed around the county and tasted by other p.d.'s and they agree that its piss water. And you think it's going to be a cool refreshing glass of lemonade for us?

All of you people who were worried about the city taking over our details, what do you think BSO is going to do if we go to them?

All you Al Lamberti fans out there, do you really think the guy is in for the long haul? Then what happens if we go to BSO and someone like Jenne ends up as sheriff?

Besides they're in the middle of a union war? Do they even had a contract yet? Last I heard they were settling for a one year with a 3% C.O.L.A.? Who knows.

We can vote to go to BSO all we want. We can vote a no confidence in the chief all we want. We can vote a no confidence in the city manager all we want. The fact is our vote in these matters doesn't mean a thing. It just further shows were not happy.

Hell, I give up, if we all vote to go BSO it be the first thing in along time that we did together. To Hell with showing up when the union leadership needs and supporting eachother. We'll just continue with the, "I got mine. Screw you. Who's with me?" attitude. It's working so well for us.

For all of you that want to go to BSO put in an application, they're hiring again.

We all know the jail is closed and not coming back. The reason it is closed is because the Chief made a long lasting wrong decision. BSO or not, gone is gone, quality of life is gone, citizens pay the price, we only work in the mess the Chief helped create, and that creation allows BSO to NTA. The Chief and Silva are responsible.

It was No to BSO in 2003 because Mangifesta took all his direction from the Chief's Office, even ritiring in the same town up north together. Birds of a feather hang together. When the city and Silva threatened us with BSO 3 years back we should have said "OK, do it" and they would have backed down quickly. That dumb ass had no idea how to play high stakes poker!

You talk about drinking piss water when you have been eating s*h*i*t for years now? No, the piss won't taste like lemonade but at least a few people will be left choking on the shat they have been shoveling out.

Details, only a concern if you work them. If the city paid us decently then maybe you would not have to work your 80 hours a week including SW 2 Street to keep the light bills on. If you were given a 15K raise, which you deserve, you wouldn't have to stand outside a storefront till 4am whoring yourself unless your stupid and have 5 kids, child support, and allimony. As soon as the city figuers out how to take the details, they will, count on it!

Lamberti, doesn't matter who the Sheriff is, only that he is honest and treats his people well. If not, pull together, make his life miserable, and push for his ouster, things we should have been doing at our own house.

Manpower shortage, were just as short or worse than they are, so no change there! Don't let that hold you back from voting yes to go over.

Union disorder, sounds like their membership too is pissed off and finally getting off their asses, maybe we should take notice.

So what is wrong with voting our unhappiness? Are you too used to eating the Shat and washing it down with piss lemonade?

Applications, the guys are running to fill them out at a multitude of agencies, I guess they like lemonade or something, but I don't blame them one bit!

We all know the jail is closed and not coming back. The reason it is closed is because the Chief made a long lasting wrong decision. BSO or not, gone is gone, quality of life is gone, citizens pay the price, we only work in the mess the Chief helped create, and that creation allows BSO to NTA. The Chief and Silva are responsible.

It was No to BSO in 2003 because Mangifesta took all his direction from the Chief's Office, even ritiring in the same town up north together. Birds of a feather hang together. When the city and Silva threatened us with BSO 3 years back we should have said "OK, do it" and they would have backed down quickly. That dumb ass had no idea how to play high stakes poker!

You talk about drinking piss water when you have been eating s*h*i*t for years now? No, the piss won't taste like lemonade but at least a few people will be left choking on the shat they have been shoveling out.

Details, only a concern if you work them. If the city paid us decently then maybe you would not have to work your 80 hours a week including SW 2 Street to keep the light bills on. If you were given a 15K raise, which you deserve, you wouldn't have to stand outside a storefront till 4am whoring yourself unless your stupid and have 5 kids, child support, and allimony. As soon as the city figuers out how to take the details, they will, count on it!

Lamberti, doesn't matter who the Sheriff is, only that he is honest and treats his people well. If not, pull together, make his life miserable, and push for his ouster, things we should have been doing at our own house.

Manpower shortage, were just as short or worse than they are, so no change there! Don't let that hold you back from voting yes to go over.

Union disorder, sounds like their membership too is pissed off and finally getting off their asses, maybe we should take notice.

So what is wrong with voting our unhappiness? Are you too used to eating the Shat and washing it down with piss lemonade?

Applications, the guys are running to fill them out at a multitude of agencies, I guess they like lemonade or something, but I don't blame them one bit!

Why make excuses and look at the bright side of all of BSO's negatives and then highlight our (many) negatives:
You're admitting their union is in disorder. That's a good thing?!
Manpower: It's the same if not worse there, why is that ok?
If they could just take a vote to knock of the sheriff if he sucks why didn't they do that with Jenne. I don't think it's quite as easy as you make it sound.
Details: a lot of our guys DO work details, whether you do or not. Going to BSO will NOT get us a 15g raise, so yes...guys WILL still be working their details. And I guarantee that even if we did make that, people would still work them.

So your entire argument is "yeah, most stuff about BSO sucks.....but it sucks here to, so whatever". Do you just really like white shirts, or do you not mind drinking piss, just because it's different from the piss you've been drinking (Diet Piss).

I just don't understand why we would want to take a disgruntled agency with no contract to another disgruntled agency with no contract. Have you been on THEIR message board, it's as bad as ours.

Would someone with a REAL argument please post, because as of right now no one has made any good point to go to BSO. Like someone said above though, it's not up to us and the city will never go for it.

The detail take over was just one example.

What about our pension? I'm sure you know that BSO has the state pension. Our city wants to go to the state pension. Our current pension has no COLA. If we go to the state pension, the people who stay in our current pension will never get a COLA. If we go to BSO, the people who stay in our current pension will never get a COLA. How is that better?


As far as voting our unhappiness, I really don't think our unhappiness is in question and the fact that we need to vote to go to BSO just to prove that we aren't happy really makes no sense. Maybe working to the rule to show that we are unhappy? How about doing something that actually has an impact instead of just voting on the inane?

I just checked BSO website:

"JOB TITLE
Law Enforcement Deputy Sheriff
RECRUITMENT NUMBER
07DLE
SALARY
BI-WEEKLY CADET: $1,294 (UNR0/Pay Grade 10)
ANNUAL CERTIFIED: $40,947 - $63,978 (PBA/Pay Grade 15)"

We top out at $63897.60

They make $80.40 a year more than us. I'M SOLD!!!!

As far as me being used to the current diet of piss and "shat." Why would I want to order out for piss and shat when I can get that at home?

I really don't see a point to go BSO.

1.) If you work details, forget about making any serious money. A deputy told me that they take home about $16 an hour after all is said and done.

2.) 5 on/2 off. NEGATIVE. I don't know how many people care, but that extra day off we get with FLPD every week is huge for me.

3.) The pay is no difference; PLUS it would take you double the time to top out.

4.) They can send you anywhere they want in the county. "Hey Deputy x, we need a body in Weston soooo you're going there." That doesn't appeal to me.

5.) As for politics, I see it as the same - but what do I know?

6.) Just go onto the BSO LEOaffairs section and read whats going on. Doesn't appear to be much better...

That's just my 2 cents.

And no stand-by pay, which can equal $5,000+, or 20+ extra days off a year.

1. If your in our pension the sheriff picks up the cost. (7%) raise to us.
2. When your done in our pension, you roll into FRS get a total compensation pension (which we dont have), including details (which we dont do), and 3% COLA in the pension (which we dont have)
3. When you roll into FRS you are collecting our pension at the same time your in FRS.
4. Major family medical for $60 per month including a gym membership. You cant beat that.
I know there are negatives but I havent seen these points posted yet.

Do some of you guys know how to play chess?

A proposal to go to BSO is a stategic manuever in a contract dispute! They used it to thier advantage 3 years ago and we caved. Now, the Union is using it to our advantage and taking away a city ploy.

Right, if the city does not want us to go, we will not. But as a chess player, we should still vote to go to apply pressure. If some of you guys cannot understand this you need to put your thinking caps on. And here, in open forum for even the city manager to read, some post long winded paragraphs about why we need stay with FLPD.

We need to Vote "Yes" now, and watch the ripples in the water after the vote. The vote is not binding, wisen up and play the game!

Do some of you guys know how to play chess?

A proposal to go to BSO is a stategic manuever in a contract dispute! They used it to thier advantage 3 years ago and we caved. Now, the Union is using it to our advantage and taking away a city ploy.

Right, if the city does not want us to go, we will not. But as a chess player, we should still vote to go to apply pressure. If some of you guys cannot understand this you need to put your thinking caps on. And here, in open forum for even the city manager to read, some post long winded paragraphs about why we need stay with FLPD.

We need to Vote "Yes" now, and watch the ripples in the water after the vote. The vote is not binding, wisen up and play the game!

Yea, I play chess... Usually when you play chess your moves actually mean something. I have put my thinking cap on, and I think that this is another knee jerk reaction to the fact that we are having to the poor contract negotiations.

Why not do something that actually makes a statement? For example, they threaten to take away certain officers' take home cars for low stats. Why not, for one week everyone leaves their take home cars at the station? Let the city see the nightmare of dealing with the 400 cars. If we run out of room to park them at the station, then we park them at city all. The union could call a press conference. Maybe make it a media event. That would make a statement. But you know we won't do it because it would require sacrifice on our part for 1 whole week.

Why do that when we can do a non-binding vote that really doesn't mean a damn thing, affect anyone's wellbeing, require any effort or sacrifice on any union members part just so the city can see that we're unhappy.

Oh, wait there will be ripples in the water. IT'S TOO LATE FOR RIPPLES! How about some waves?

But whatever you sold me you have my vote. I'll vote yes for the greater good. :roll:

Do some of you guys know how to play chess?

A proposal to go to BSO is a stategic manuever in a contract dispute! They used it to thier advantage 3 years ago and we caved. Now, the Union is using it to our advantage and taking away a city ploy.

Right, if the city does not want us to go, we will not. But as a chess player, we should still vote to go to apply pressure. If some of you guys cannot understand this you need to put your thinking caps on. And here, in open forum for even the city manager to read, some post long winded paragraphs about why we need stay with FLPD.

We need to Vote "Yes" now, and watch the ripples in the water after the vote. The vote is not binding, wisen up and play the game!

And any chess player knows how prudent it is to think out loud at the table. :roll: (loose lips sink contracts?) Anyway...

Might I suggest another item on the agenda: Many of us are confused as to the differences between the state retirement system and our current retirement system. When most people hear that there's no 7% contribution, we think "instant 7% raise." I know that can't be the case, because the slack has to be brought up somewhere. It would be great if on Tuesday, someone knowledgeable on this topic would help us understand the reasons we are so vehemently against the state system.

Just a thought.

Do some of you guys know how to play chess?

A proposal to go to BSO is a stategic manuever in a contract dispute! They used it to thier advantage 3 years ago and we caved. Now, the Union is using it to our advantage and taking away a city ploy.

Right, if the city does not want us to go, we will not. But as a chess player, we should still vote to go to apply pressure. If some of you guys cannot understand this you need to put your thinking caps on. And here, in open forum for even the city manager to read, some post long winded paragraphs about why we need stay with FLPD.

We need to Vote "Yes" now, and watch the ripples in the water after the vote. The vote is not binding, wisen up and play the game!

And any chess player knows how prudent it is to think out loud at the table. :roll: (loose lips sink contracts?) Anyway...

Might I suggest another item on the agenda: Many of us are confused as to the differences between the state retirement system and our current retirement system. When most people hear that there's no 7% contribution, we think "instant 7% raise." I know that can't be the case, because the slack has to be brought up somewhere. It would be great if on Tuesday, someone knowledgeable on this topic would help us understand the reasons we are so vehemently against the state system.

Just a thought.

Its not a Chess Move. Its so blantantly obvious what we're trying to do. Vote to go from on crappy place to another crappy place. Why would anyone want to do that? If there were postives or better incentives to go to BSO then present them. If its better then I'm all for what is better.

We aren't playing chess. This is like playing poker, showing we have nothing in our hand, and then trying to bluff.

I the city doesnt have to read this message board to know that BSO is in the middle of the union war, they have no contract, and they have no sheriff. They can just drive down Broward Blvd. and watch the news to see that. They can also see on BSO's union web page that their current contract sucks compared to our current contract. Do you think they don't know this?

They are playing chess and we are playing candy land. Wake Up!!!

I'm not saying anything that anyone doesn't already know. I just want someone to present a valid reason why this is a good idea other than to intimidate the city, which it doesnt take a genius to see that's our main reason. I just hope our union has a great presentation in store on tuesday for why we should vote to go to BSO. I really hope so because I understand how important this contract is to us. I just hope its not just "a motion" and the "yays have it" and no one has thought the thing through.
I just don't want us to be a bunch of lemmings and run off the cliff.

I've been reading up on BSO current events along with ours. Right now, as far as a contract, we both have nothing.

I'll give the Union my support with good reason, but I refuse to follow anyone blindly.

Do some of you guys know how to play chess?

A proposal to go to BSO is a stategic manuever in a contract dispute! They used it to thier advantage 3 years ago and we caved. Now, the Union is using it to our advantage and taking away a city ploy.

Right, if the city does not want us to go, we will not. But as a chess player, we should still vote to go to apply pressure. If some of you guys cannot understand this you need to put your thinking caps on. And here, in open forum for even the city manager to read, some post long winded paragraphs about why we need stay with FLPD.

We need to Vote "Yes" now, and watch the ripples in the water after the vote. The vote is not binding, wisen up and play the game!

I completely understand that, and have planned on voting "yes" to OPEN discussions no matter how I feel about the subject, b/c I understand the point you're making. However, my (and I assume other's) replies and questions about going to BSO are in response to those who immediately post "LET'S GO BSO" and think that this vote on tuesday means we're swapping cars on wednesday.

"Right, if the city does not want us to go, we will not."

- Then hopefully someone will explain the point of doing this AT ALL on tuesday.

"Right, if the city does not want us to go, we will not."

- Then hopefully someone will explain the point of doing this AT ALL on tuesday.

AHH! Yeah, that’s the reason why the city is short changing us with the salaries. Oh I’m sorry, I guess maybe deep inside they care and don’t want us to leave…..NOT!

Never ceases to amaze me, though it continues to disappoint me how easily a few of our members can turn on and devour one another, especially during trying times. Such loud, divisive discord in the comforts of anonymity here, but rarely a peep when the invitation for tangible, worthy dialogue is presented at a meeting.

Those of you who claim that the whining here is an honest search for answers and information are not only fooling yourselves, but are hurting the cause. It is important for us all to wrestle with ideas and debate strategies....but there is a time, place, and manner with which to do that. This is an endurance test. Do not let your emotions, and lack of patience or perspective escalate into second-guessing our own people and bashing our efforts....you merely fan the City's fires and play right into their hands.

I agree with the analagous reference to Chess. Unfortunately, many of us are nearsighted, and get bogged down in each move, failing to consider it is only one of many moves already played or yet to come. As for our more cynical member, remember, even Candyland had a strategy and an ultimate winner. Those who can see the big picture, stay focused, debate paths to success with logic and reason, and seek to contribute rather than confront, join us Tuesday night...but make a case, and not simply an argument!

Have some faith, and remember that we are all in this together!!!

I agree with the analagous reference to Chess. Unfortunately, many of us are nearsighted, and get bogged down in each move, failing to consider it is only one of many moves already played or yet to come.

Save the dialogue for Hollywood screenwriter, this is real life here. This chess game is between Jerry’s Kids and Viswanathan Anand (current world’s champion). The city makes the rules in this chess game. We’re way behind here, in case you didn’t notice. The City of Miami didn’t get an equitable contract by using philosophy. They employed tactics that demanded action and they got what they wanted.

Well "Guest," now that you have boldly offered such valuable insight, why don't you enlighten me some more.

I agree, let's scrap the philosophies and share some "real world" info. I obviously "didn't notice" where we are at, where we have been, or where we are headed, as I only get my complete info from actually sitting at the tables in these meetings and negotiations. I thought I actually examined and even spoke with Miami and almost every other agency in South Florida about the specifics of their tactics and goals of their negotiations, but you clearly have an even more informed understanding as to what they wanted and how they got it.

Can you tell me any specifics or do you cling to the generic rumors about how "we suck" and "do nothing" and "won't get a contract?" Tell me facts of where we were in negotiations 8 months ago, and facts that support that we are "way behind." Can you qualify any of your sentiments with fact, or will you continue to submit to locker-room perception?

I apologize for dissuading your faith in us (Jerry's Kids), and sorry that you chose to attack your family that sincerely acts on your behalf, instead of offering your dynamic solutions and unique insights to us when it matters most.

I'll again invite you to join us actively. I am officially offering you at spot at the table and executive meetings to guide us! Or speak up at the meetings or call me personally, as I could use the counseling.

Remember, our hearts are all in the right place.