a concerned citizen

do you guys have ticket quotas you have to reach each month? if so, whats the limit and when are they due?

there are no quotas. we dont get a toaster or a raise or any percentage of monetary gains from traffic citations. The traffic units main job is to issue traffic citations for violators.

guest22 why do you have to be so sarcastic? it was a legitimate question. No we dont have quotas, HOWEVER, a portion of the citations written go to our training, I.E region 8 and grant funded classes. The rest go to the state and counties for roads, parks, maintenance, etc. The traffic job is to do the majority of the ticket writing but due to high crime to a population boom, a string of robberies, on top of the summer with parades, sun-n-fun, and having to do procap, they cant as much as they would like.

Chill out a bit... take things less serious. You will feel better

[guestt]

amen to that.....ever hear of "dont sweat the small stuff" ......sounds corny but it works...

there's no set number of tickets to write but lately the bosses want stats. that means you may get a cheezy extra ticket just because of pressure from supervision

there's no set number of tickets to write but lately the bosses want stats. that means you may get a cheezy extra ticket just because of pressure from supervision

perhaps it might be just doing what you are paid for???

I'm another concerned citizen -- I'm not a LEO -- who occasionally drops in and checks out PCSO. I knew Matt Williams quite well and have met Doug Spiers as well. I considered Matt a friend. I'm not interested in blame at this point, and hopefully everybody's moved forward on that, but I AM interested in something like this never happening again. Has any training been initiated to try to prevent another "friendly fire" incident, or to better address officer safety in a situation like that? (and is such training practicable and feasible?) (would some sort of beacon, GPS-based or otherwise, help deputies keep track of each other)

I didn't support Grady in the election but I have to say I'm impressed with how he's handled himself and will support him next time. I sure hope Grady, or at least somebody in the upper-echelon brass, addresses this and implements any additional training and equipment that might help.

Y'all stay safe!

HAHAHA that is a big funny to me. TRAINING THAT BENEFITS our job performance ??

lets see we have a CUSTOMER SERVICE CLASS that is set up for toddlers and tries to teach us how to kiss @$$ basically and has NO BENEFIT to law enforcement...

then we have a driving class that is an embarrasment and a disgrace .

We have SOME advanced handgun classes but NOTHING NEW since Matt. Not to mention those classes are difficult to get into due to manpower, class size, etc ..... if they were MANDATORY like the customer kiss @$$ class is or the retard driving class we WOULD have to take them no matter WHAT and would have no difficulty in getting them.

Hopefully Grady reads this stuff. Sounds like the customer service thing maybe goes too far, but you've got to keep in mind Grady's overall big picture. He's not just selling steak; he's also selling sizzle. He's got to be concerned about PCSO's public image and how the public perceives deputies. Sounds like an emphasis on courtesy ought to be plenty, and shift some of the focus to things that will keep deputies ALIVE.

to the non-leo. they recently added this thing called the gauntlet at our annual retraining day. it is basicallly design to teach people how to escort a k9 handler while armed with a shotgun.

it is not practical as all the dogs will turn and try to bite the guys with the shotguns once they open fire. i saw one dog go through it and the handler got bit trying to protect his backup.

this type of training should be more than once a year. i like running tracks but most people don't. they shouldn't be made to. only people who are fit and want to go should go and they should get extra training with the k9 guys\gals so they work as a true team.

as for what happened to matt\diogi: matt was bound by our policy regarding deployment of bite dogs on misdemeanor offenses. its my understanding this is getting ready to change in favor of the deputy.

I have to say... ALERT IS gettin A LOT LOT better. They have gotten us out of the classrooms and doin more simunitions.. the guantlet.... etc.. and the gauntlet and sims are really the ONLY WAY to learn how to shoot. REAL life situations.... not waiting for the greenman and blueman to turn and shoot the same course weve shot over and over and over again..

But as far as running tracks, etc... its very pathetic because you look around.. esp on the day shifts... how many deputies are REALLLY in shape to WALK a track with a K9 . I have been on many myself and even though I am physically fit I do get tired out.

The K9 d/s NEEDS someone that will be able to keep up for SAFETY. The agencys cant FORCE d/s's to get into shape... but the d/s's should do it for themselves. Even if you have the I WONT CHASE ANYONE ON FOOT philosophy.... you still MAY be the one who will HAVE TO stay with k9 d/s for THEIR safety one day.

I have to say I'm a little disappointed Grady hasn't done more to protect his people. You've got to remember that, first and foremost, even though he surely finds it distasteful, he's necessarily a politician and has to worry about public perception and getting re-elected. Y'all keep raising Kane and demanding more training for real-life situations. He'll eventually respond. What happened to Matt only happens once in a blue moon, but we sure don't need to have anybody else killed due to lack of training. Maybe all the training in the world wouldn't have changed what happened that awful day, but it sure wouldn't have hurt, and nobody would have to wonder "what if". This non-LEO, who happens to know lots of you and was horrified by Matt's death, cares. Send Grady an email every frigging day demanding more meaningful training, and copy the freaking Ledger if you need to in order to get his attention. Grady clearly cares about his people but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Be Safe!

I have to say I'm a little disappointed Grady hasn't done more to protect his people. You've got to remember that, first and foremost, even though he surely finds it distasteful, he's necessarily a politician and has to worry about public perception and getting re-elected. Y'all keep raising Kane and demanding more training for real-life situations. He'll eventually respond. What happened to Matt only happens once in a blue moon, but we sure don't need to have anybody else killed due to lack of training. Maybe all the training in the world wouldn't have changed what happened that awful day, but it sure wouldn't have hurt, and nobody would have to wonder "what if". This non-LEO, who happens to know lots of you and was horrified by Matt's death, cares. Send Grady an email every frigging day demanding more meaningful training, and copy the freaking Ledger if you need to in order to get his attention. Grady clearly cares about his people but the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Be Safe!

It was said earlier and I quote "i like running tracks but most people don't. they shouldn't be made to. only people who are fit and want to go should go"

A part of police work.... may very well involve foot work. If someone is morbidly obese, he shouldn't be allowed to work until he gets into shape. He's paid to perform. <just my opinion>[/b]

its a simple solution really. supply doesn't issue uniforms over a certain size. there is no reason to issue pants with a 48 inch waist,come on. if you can't fit into your clothes,you don't work.

the agency CAN force us to be in shape,they just don't. there is a base standard for fitness to get hired(it is weak,i agree). at a minimum we should requalify to that standard at alert. ert and k9 both have fitness standards, everyone else should too, we all work the big calls together.

as for running tracks. sometimes you walk them,sometimes you run. sometimes you go over fence after fence to get into a 1031/foot on a suspect you can't bite. fitness is a job requirement. our job is to protect people and catch the bad guys. its a really bad idea to jump into a fight with a suspect if you're already dead tired from catching up to them.

I AM interested in something like this never happening again. Has any training been initiated to try to prevent another "friendly fire" incident, or to better address officer safety in a situation like that? (and is such training practicable and feasible?). I sure hope Grady, or at least somebody in the upper-echelon brass, addresses this and implements any additional training and equipment that might help.
Y'all stay safe!

Even though I would love to see a basic standard for fitness be mandatory (you have to pass the PAT to go to the academy, so it’s already certified/validated, so why shouldn’t you have to pass it every year to get your merit increase) I don’t think its going to happen with a push from within.

So lets talk about something that is more feasible. IMHO, Cookie cutter one training for all doesn’t work. Yes certain things are mandatory for all sworn members for recertification, firearm quals, dt, etc. Cut the Alert down to the mandatory hours to accomplish that, for discussion sake say 5 hours. Then on a different date have members come back based on the job they are in for specialty training, room clearing, k9 tracking, traffic stop/ response call (force on force training). For example if you work patrol or echo, you’d come back and spend 3 hours on room clearing, traffic stop/response call, and a tactical shooting course. If you work somewhere where you are doing vehicle takedowns and search warrants, then you would obviously spend the 3 hours doing room clearing, Veh takedowns, and tac shooting. If you work traffic then your 3 hours would be on Traffic stops (force on force) and a tac shooting course from/around a vehicle. If you work detention and do transports then your doing additional DT and anti vehicle ambush tactics. I think you see how this would go by now and could figure out what would be best for the job you are currently in. Guess what you’re still only using 8 hours for alert. But your training is 50 times more effective. You could have 3 different groups come in one day 0600-0900,09-12, 13-1600. The night rotations could come in 21-00,00-03,03-06.

Certain units like patrol/echo need more than that 8 a year for things such as if you work dayshift patrol then you probably need to go to school shooting every year where as if you work nights you do not, but could always use a mall scenario instead and don’t forget about officer/citizen rescue, tracking with a k9.

Some are saying there’s no way that this would be possible to get all the sworn through this. Well its already done 8 hours a year and a 4 hour Customer Service class, Knock it down to a 2 hour CS and give the other 2 hour for a small class (not 60-80 at a time) to the Active shooter/rescue (remember not everyone would need to go through this). Some would say well everyone should go through it and id agree, but what is better, getting the people who would most likely need the training based on their current assignment, or just the people who are getting it now?

Could this happen as it is now? No, they would have to have a dedicated training/instructor staff to provide the consistent and productive training. Alert is not training, Alert is checkbox on your mandatory requirements. Get the group of instructors who want to teach/instruct and use them not the ones who just want to "check the box". Currently they pull A,B,F,G,H instructors to teach from all over the agency. Next Alert its C,D,E,J,K who no matter what the subject teach it differently. There are some who’d say we can’t provide for a dedicated training group, if you use the analogy of instructors for marbles for a minute follow along. (#'s are not actual) You have a 8 barrels(4 districts, 4 det units) with a total of 800 marbles/(sworn members). Every Alert you take out 8 marbles, from all different barrels. Leaving each barrel down a marble, then next alert you take out a different 8 marbles. Again leaving each barrel down a marble. So if you just left the 8 marbles out how would it be so disastrous to the barrels, each barrel is doing without a marble even though it’s a different one every time. But anyway you cut it you still have 800 marbles minus the 8 that got pulled. Plus now you don’t have the barrels complaining that they are always giving up a marble for this and that. The rest of the marbles are getting the consistent training now because it’s the same marbles instructing every time. If there happens to be no training for the marbles to do, then you now have a highly trained task force of marbles to put where ever you need them.
What marbles should we use to train the other marbles? Probably the marbles that get the most training from all over the nation, to ensure the latest and most effective techniques are being taught. Just because it worked for years, no lights on handguns for example, doesn’t mean it was the best way. Never confuse good luck with good tactics. Everyone should thank the Sheriff for that one. After all we are talking about saving LIVES of deputies and citizens; nothing should have a higher priority than that.

Train as you fight and fight as you train.

They can make you, they just dont. Pinellas county takes a Fit test every year. Theres no reason anyone working here shouldnt have to pass the same requirement that you did to get hired. Was it really that hard when you took it the first time? You might be the only one there that day to keep up with the other deputy. Now its not just about your life, its about thiers too. Heck even the "masters" dont have to pass any fitness requirement.

Maybe this should be moved to the Jokes only thread.