Nepotism, what is it?

Nepotism refers to the act of favoring relatives because of their relationship more than their abilities. The word nepotism comes from the Latin word 'nepos', meaning "nephew" or "grandchild".

But, what IS IT?

FACT: We have prohibited family members of current employees from working here in the past. I also happen to know that these prohibited applicants are exceptional police officers. One works for SPPD while the other is at St. Pete Beach. So it's obvious from these two examples alone (let's label them Exhibit 402 and Exhibit 318) that people of realation are NOT allowed to work at this agency. These are just the two that I can think of. This is perhaps due to the "Henevelds" of past. A sterling example of why husband and wife should not work together in an agency this size.

QUESTION: When does this rule take effect, at birth or marriage? The answer is obvious. Should the agency allow this? Or better yet, should WE as THE AGENCY allow this?

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FACT: A female officer was bumped from an OT detail by a senior officer. Happens all the time, everyday in every agency. I would wager, no matter what your seniority is at this reading, that you too have experienced being "bumped."

QUESTION: Did you have the ability to have your spouse, who is a Senior Police Officer and senior to the officer that bumped you, RE-BUMP the other guy, and sign up for the details? Now this in-and-of itself is not anything more than just spiteful but can be tolerated. But it does not end here.

FACT: This S.P.O. bumped the other guy, divided the OT detail(s) in half and split it with his wife who was already bumped off.

QUESTION: These details are set up and coordinated by a certain officer. She draws up the schedules and ensures that they are covered per policy. Why is a S.P.O. dividing up details and placing his wife on there when if he REALLY wanted to work the detail, he would just take it all himself. Oh, that's right....we have a policy that says you can only have 5 hours of OT per week before your seniority becomes worthless. Why doesn't the other officer just bump the wife from the 1/2 of the detail that she is covering? He was on there first to begin with right, so if the S.P.O. only wanted to work half of the detail, why not split it with the guy that is senior to his wife? Anyone get where I am going with this?

This whole situation just stinks of more than greed. The administration obviously does not care that this goes on and it has for years! We need to make sure that they know that we are not going to put up with it. If you get bumped by a senior officer, especially if his wife just got bumped from a detail, you better check the board the next day.

If you find that your detail that was taken away from you has now been miraculously divided in 1/2 and a junior person is signed up for it, you better bump them and get your 1/2 back. Or better yet, if it is a CERTAIN S.P.O. check with the comm center or 419 after the detail and see who actually showed up. It is only just a matter of time before he puts his name on it and she shows up to cover at the "last minute."

They get away with this for only two reasons. 1) The admin lets them and 2) WE let them. Well, when #2 stops, this BS will stop!

WAKE UP!!! This has gone on for too long!!! Stand up for yourselves!!!

We are not going to "win" as there is two of them acting as one single corporation or LLC. The odds are in their favor as it is essentially 2 against 1. But that's fine, it is not about winning, it is about what's fair and just. Why should you be deprived some off duty pay because someone else needs another 4 wheeler?

This is yet another sterling example of why this should not be tolerated. We could very well be writing this about two brothers, but, we do not allow this at our agency. We prohibit brothers from working here for this very reason. But, we have a history of bending the rules for some and not others.

It is one thing to be an exception to a rule, like being able to work in the same department or on the same special operations details with your subordinate/spouse, (don't forget an S.P.O. is a supervisor) but it is another thing to pull these kind of shennanigans and only draw attention to yourself. It's almost dowright arrogant and a slap in the face of the other officers in the agency.

If this was Tampa, HCSO, PCSO or Houston PD, this would not even be an issue. One would be assigned to one district or precinct and one to another. And they would NEVER see, hear, supervise, train or influence the other. Big agencies afford you that opportinuty, but not this one. Not a place where I can fart in Z3 and you smell it in Z5. It just is not a luxury we have here. Bigger agnecies provide bigger opportunities. Not any better, just more, and one of them is working with your spouse. Why you would want to wake up next to anyone only to go to work and see them for the next 10 hours is beyond me!! But if that is your thing, I understand.

If our agency, city or union will not address this, then WE the PEOPLE need to handle it ourselves.

I was lost in the 2nd paragraph, what TV show are you watching? Who cares? Get a life.

ahhhh boys now becareful what you say about your next supervisor play nice!!!!

I just have a question real quick..the purpose of the nepotism policy is to ensure that one relative will not supervise another, right? So what happens when both of them rotate out of there specialized positions? Or is the marraige a way to garauntee that at least one of them always stays in a special position...pretty convenient if you ask me...because if they both go back to the road, then one will supervise the other...how will the higher ups deal with that?

I love it when "policy" turns into "convenience."

I wonder why either of them are so "celebrated" by the Admin. They are hateful, nasty, people. The female half was the one of the poorest road officers ever....completely worthless, The other enjoys inflicting pain on others. The Admin just loves them though.

i agree ~ i'll never forget this radio transmission ~

sgt go to channel 2

go ahead

i'm on a x50 and it says " if the driver is the owner than seize the tag "

ok

well the owner's brother is driving and the owner is the passnger can i still seize the tag!!!

This is rediculous and needs to be stopped!

you know everyone talks crap about the other guy and you can't make everyone happy all the time.... folks are so jealous of eachother is crazy.... if everyone would pay as much attention to their police work instead of the gossip and worrying about another getting something they dont have pinellas park would be a much better place..... just do your jobs go home to your family and that should be it.... your going to die young if you keep worrying about all this shit that doesnt matter..... who cares if officer flintstone gets a new car and your senior to him... who cares if officer rubble gets over time and you dont.... in a nutshell and the big scheme of things none of this shit is going to matter in the end....

it appears to me the two these posts are referring to are very happy.... do you really think they worry about you getting a new ticket book and they dont comon now can't we think of a good subject to chat and debate about instead of eachother..... this is crazy.... misery loves company and its easy to see that ya'll are a bunch of miserable *******s... be happy in your personal life and your professional life will follow........

Ok well we have had other people work here who 10-42 and a half was sworn. Some left when they got married. However I agree with the original poster. This is only swerving aroud S.OP. I think that if they do this they should have to give the OT pay to the Senior Officer who got bumped. Also if one of them can't make it they should have to call who ever was bumped and offer it to them before they let there 42 1/2 sub for them. IN MY VIEW SHE IS A RATTLE SNAKE.. He is that dam stingray ready to stab you in the heart when you look away. I hope for the sake of PP that he is not promoted. I would almost rather have J.M. as a sgt. I totally agree with the other poster a larger agency would allow them to work together with no problem. One in south county and one in uncorp clearwater.

Everyone at the PD knows that certain officers and spo's can't get away with basically whatever they want if your "cool" with SGT or LT. I understand that ocurrs at all jobs but I believe things around the PD are getting out of control. I agree with the original writer to this post. Morale is down at the PD and I hope the chief and captain see that. I'm out

i get along great with L3 i think he is Da Bomb!!!!

HA! yeah right what a joke that is.......

I disagree, morale isn't down, mabey for you. Are you sad? Go talk to someone. Mabey your morale is down, but don't include other officers in your problems.

hey if your gonna talk crap about folks why pick on these two... lets talk crap about the A&&hole that is now in CIS!!!! talk about someone that doenst know patrol and is a nasty ***** to other officers as well as citizens.... talk about someone the admin loves and everyone else hates... you know the one.... the one that met the president for reasons we wont discuss on here.... stop picking on the B's they arent the worst we have.....

Did you ever raise this issue up with a Sergeant at the time that this incident ocurred or are you simply complaining about something a month after the fact because you woke up on the wrong side of the bed?

Have you ever presented your airtight open and shut case for admin to make a decision on or are you just "assuming" that you know that admin. will protect them because they are big fans. Lest I remind you about those who assume.

It's easy to come on her and make slams without giving enough facts for your argument to come under scrutiny.

Bottom line, don't come on here and complain about issues that you don't have the courage to bring up through proper channels. That is just cowardice.

Those two are the most miserable. They can't speak nicely to anyone! Unless it is someone who has "power". I'm not miserable, I didn't marry a dude!

Did you ever raise this issue up with a Sergeant at the time that this incident ocurred or are you simply complaining about something a month after the fact because you woke up on the wrong side of the bed?

Have you ever presented your airtight open and shut case for admin to make a decision on or are you just "assuming" that you know that admin. will protect them because they are big fans. Lest I remind you about those who assume.

It's easy to come on her and make slams without giving enough facts for your argument to come under scrutiny.

Bottom line, don't come on here and complain about issues that you don't have the courage to bring up through proper channels. That is just cowardice.

That was about a waste of space. Did you not read the original post? Did you miss something? There are plenty of facts in there in reference to this incident. Don't be all high and mighty on here. This site is here for a reason. It is to get things out in the open that need to be addressed. Did you miss the part about "we are a small agency?" We are not a TPD? Go ahead and try to "report" stuff around here and see how fast you get black balled!

You obviously have not been around here for more than a minute. There is nothing wrong with venting on here and allegedly nobody of importance reads this anyway. So who cares?

Oh, by the way, I missed your name MR / Mrs / Ms "anonymous." Does that not show cowardice as well? Oh wait, maybe you have been around a bit. You actually do know that it is not a good career move to get on here and excercise free speech. Sad, but it's true. We have all the same rights as anyone else, who are you to try and supress them?

Don't you think that the supervisor's are aware and they are obviously not going to do anything about it? When I was at the park, supervisor's knew when you farted, burped, and coughed. They have eyes and ears everywhere. All you have to do is piss off one of them, and you are done, case closed. Hey "What?" don't you just love it when people point out on this site that you are a coward, when they are hiding behind their computer (like I am right now, sitting on my freakin eggs waiting for them to hatch). I'm sure Anonoymous has stones the size of Pluto, and would march right into the Srg's office and speak his/her mind. The simple fact is it's a popularity contest in most agencies, and if they stick it up your butt again and again, you reply, "Thank you Sir/Mam, may I have yet another." Be safe all.

The term cowardice was used for the person who comes on here to complain about an incident but doesn't go to a supervisor or command staff to raise the issue. Not that they didn't post their name. I could care less if they post there name or not. I am not trying to curb your free speech. Don't cast blame onto others if you didn't bring it forward through official channels to rectify the situation first. You just want to get on here and complain with no responsibility for reporting the incident. We are hearing one side of the story here and pardon me if I don't take your explanation without hearing the other side or at least have a boss look into the accusation. Perhaps the reason the issue wasn't brought to a supervisor's attention is that there was no violation at all and this a big too do about nothing.

As for the deputy...Once again, thanks for visiting our little humble police department and giving us your wisdom on what our agency was like 8 years ago when you were here.

Ok "Guest" once again you are not reading just typing. This confirms that you are a supervisor. I tell you what, you go sit in your little trailer and wait for me to come in. There is a reason why we don't come to you and I wouldn't be too proud of it if I were you.

And you can leave your little digs at the deputies where ever you left your sack because they do not become you. There is only a few people here that must always take a shot at PCSO and we all know who you are.

I'll go ahead and pre-respond to your next post because I don't have time for you. I know you will say you are "not a supervisor"....yada....yada....yada and just tell me to leave if I am not happy....blah....blah....blah.

We will just agree to disagree. You think there is nothing wrong with this situation and I think it stinks to high hell. Just like George Madden will tell you, it all catches up in the end! I just hope I am there to see it :)

Wow, if we all just had your wisdom. I am not sure where your anger comes from.

All I did was ask a question if anyone took it to a boss first before blasting away on this board. Apparently the answer to the question was no and you can spout off we are afraid of reprucussions all you want but the reality is apparently no one did.

If your right your right if they are wrong they are wrong. Don't get pissed at the system, supervisors, and admin if you don't give them a chance to address and fix the problem that you uncovered. If you addressed it with them, proved your point and then they buried it or did not address it to your satisfaction, then come on here and blow your whistle.

What is ocurring now is nothing more than gossip because you fail to bring your accusation to scrutiny. Once again, if your right your right but pardon me if I want more proof than what you say on this board under an anonymous name. Call them on it. If the system fails you, come here and shout it from the mountain and make them address it then.

However, don't claim to know who I am or why I'm on here. You have not a clue. If I want to defend my agency against deputies who worked here 8 years ago, I will. If they left for a better opportunity then that was great for them. To come back here and blast on our board every opportunity they get because they think they know what the agency is like 8 years later is ignorance and I will call them out all day long. YOu should be doing the same. If you have no respect for the agency and others who work with you, I think you should join your deputy friend. I hope you don't, but then again I don't want to work with someone who has no respect for our agency.

Have a good night and stay safe.

I wonder why either of them are so "celebrated" by the Admin. They are hateful, nasty, people. The female half was the one of the poorest road officers ever....completely worthless, The other enjoys inflicting pain on others. The Admin just loves them though.


Nice to see sheis in training!!!! Gotta love that!!!!!!

hey if your gonna talk crap about folks why pick on these two... lets talk crap about the A&&hole that is now in CIS!!!! talk about someone that doenst know patrol and is a nasty ***** to other officers as well as citizens.... talk about someone the admin loves and everyone else hates... you know the one.... the one that met the president for reasons we wont discuss on here.... stop picking on the B's they arent the worst we have.....


Very true, I have never seen such a sour person. This person has issues. I can say they will never see the road again....................... Thank goodness

Admin needs to wake up or regroup. If they allow this behavior, this will not go away. Ask the recruits at the academy, ask the newer officers who dealt with the BS during orientation, or ask 99 % of the officers in this PD how they have been treated by the training queen. These are not isolated incidents, they are patterns of behavior that have gone on for years. If we keep ignoring the problem, this city and dept will be responsible in the end. The hateful attitude toward coworkers is one thing, but now the OT deal is puttting this over the edge.

How bout you scared folks who have a problem with these people actually go to them and voice your concerns and find out what is real and what is fiction. Instead you people like to hide behind a website like this one and keep stiring the pot. If there is a problem then go to a supervisor otherwise grow up and just do your job. It is like a high school drama session with this stupid crap.

Well it's nice to see all of you posting soooo much hostility on a false accusation. I'm not sure who the bigger idiot is; the first poster with "Fact" or the rest of you followers who bought into the "Fact". Which is not "Fact". Dumb asses post "Fact" all the time on this web site and yet most of the information is false and inflammatory, placed here to incite a web-riot and turn officers against each other. We all know where it all stems from. The paraniod schzophrenic antisocial personalities that work in CIS. Almost all of whom do not work overtime and wouldn't know where the board was if they had to. Get back to trying to solve cases and let the rest of the non-medicated world revolve.

:roll:

Actually the complaint came from DARE and multiple patrol officers, a person in CIS (who was obligated to) had the stones to bring it up to Unmisig. I don't think anyone should be punished, I just think the shenanigans should stop.

Don't drag CIS into this...you know most of Patrol (including the Grand Regal SPO's) are mostly stupid and can barely investigate a theft much less any other crime....as evidenced by the parade of lost souls asking for CIS help. Just look tough, wear your black gloves, don't really fight crime, and let real cops do the heavy lifting for you.

Bottom line is this will be covered up by the admin and a little slappie on the wrist may arise. Be careful next time you break the rules, people are watching. If everyone has not figured this out there is a sub-culture at pppd. Figure it out for yourself, certain people get trucks, trailers, and others perks, while others are left holding the bag. It's not what you know, but who you know. Change your OT detail to to help your friends/underlings. A lot of sneaky stuff going on, but lots of folks have taken notice. It's not going on unknown.















ot

If you all had any knowledge of the situation you would know the DARE unit had nothing to do with it!!! Nice try trying to bring those two into it..Lets not get those two mouths started...

The good ole boys system in full effect. Sorry everyone, but if you didn't realize this string of posts won't shut down the system. There is a tight knit inter-group, who run this agency and can do whatever they please, with nothing being said. The OT board, the positions made special for chosen persons, horse gang, etc. Stay around and get used to it. This admin allows this to continue and nothing will change. I wish A.L. would look into this situation!??

You are an embarassment on so many different levels.

No explanation is necessary.

A year and a half later and the MB / LB / S2 overtime scams are still alive and well! You can't tell me that an agency that is so strict and bogged down in SOP's, Directives and General Orders can not find a way to bring some integrity to this OT system? I am going to go out on a limb here and assume that the admin does not know what is going on. Please look into this and find a way to regulate and govern the actions of the board. The names and numbers signed up are NOT always the same ones that work the details! Even when guys get bumped they are not called back and given the chance to work it. It conveniently goes to "so and so" because something "came up" and I asked him/her to take it for me. We have all seen it, or been a victim of it. If you get bumped, you NEED to find out who ended up showing up at the detail. OT needs to be coordinated and monitered by a captain or administrative person (records, Bev, etc.) They are the only ones that are impartial to the system. All cancellations and changes need to be cleared by someone that oversees the details. It is far to easy for the OT Consortium to trade off detials daily while the rest of us just watch it happen. Just recently I was bumped by a sergeant only to find out that an officer two years junior to me ended up working my detail. Why was I never called and given the option? This was a sgt, not some idiot!

I know....get off of this board....take it up with the sgt....just quit....etc....

Well, I did. He had no answer. He just called dispatch last minute and told them he wasn't coming in and they sent out a message. He is not part of the OT Consortium, just an example of how innocently someone can loose out on a detail due to the poor oversight of the system. I respect L.McB. for doing it, but she has NO control over it and is too tight with the B's. Might even be an honorary member of the OTC, but I can't blame her for calling them first. She just wants to get them filled and knows that the OTC can steal and swerve their way into just about any detail.

Here's a post from another section, a fun ramble from the "Too much fun for this guy":

"Come on, who gives a hoot? Let's all just work some overtime! We may not be very effective at "policing" or "law enforcement", whatever that junk is, but we do some fine work providing highly paid security work for those that can afford the extra police protection. I'm sure we are already gearing up to work security in Texas, we're like Blackwater USA!

Yeah, we do some fine OT work alright, especially in the higher ranks of Sergeant and Lieutenant. Sorry rank and file guy, these folks have vacation homes to pay for! 100k plus OT...outta sight! Even though you younger folks are actually losing money each year and soon will make the same as a Reconstruction Era, Alabama sharecropper, we need "to get ours". Rank has it's perks and no liabilities...it's good to be the king! I know chivalry and deference to the little guy should be a concern; I mean he does all the work, gets bossed around by numerous mini-napoleons, gets low pay and somehow bears all the burden of decision making liability and responsibility; but it ain't..............yaaaahooo! Money, money!

Shoot, I'm shocked that the Captains haven't gotten themselves off that salary business and got them some o' dat overtime green! Even though most agencies don't allow upper echelon folks to do OT; they leave it as the one bone for the little guy; we are much more progressive here. We want to create a feudalist system here, of Barons and Dukes. Even though we had to be "comparable" to other agencies when we up and started that crazy, wacky, Corporal Program. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone that's in charge of something! We got more stripes than a herd of Zebras! We got more brass than a trombone factory!

Well, at least we got that there OT Board! Yep, in fact if you somehow manage to dodge all that brass and all those stripes, and stay on the OT Board, ya got yourself just one more hurdle to jump through.....the specialized position folks.

Now don't get me wrong, the specialized position folks are fine people, real fine people, but they get a little advantage on ya, a little "cheat " on the Patrol folks....they sometimes flex, or adjust their hours, so as they can work an OT detail right smack in tha middle of their shift! You might be saying, "Now hold on one cotton pickin' minute, you mean to tell me we done been cheated on?" Yes you have!

Let's say your Ricky Recruit, been here about two years, your working Day Shift, with Mon/Tue/Wed off. You have a gander at that there OT Board (I call it the Golden Goose) and see a UPS detail is available in the morning. Ain't no brass or stripes going for that one....your all clear...then bam! Some fancy detective or DARE person snatches the shirt right off your back! "Wait a second, ain't detectives and DARE folks supposed to workin' at that hour? Ain't that part of their shift?" Well hell yes it is. But what you don't understand there Ricky Recruit, is you just done had the ol' Arkansas Switcheroo pulled on ya.

See there Ricky Recruit, that specialized sort is gonna "adjust" his hours and make them up later. Right smack dab in the middle of a sunny regular duty day that lady or fella is gonna be paid premium dollars to guard someone or something and just work them regular sweat hours at a later time.....Ricky Recruit, you jus' gonna have to visit yo mamma instead. Now you just try to "adjust" your hours on your working day. You try and give some 'ol specialized folk the Arakansas Switcheroo, the Carolina Steamroller and you for darn sure gonna hear about "manpower" and "minimum staffing". Sure 'nuff....Yaaahooo!

See there Ricky, you thought this whole thing was about something called "law enforcement" or "public service"....that's just stuff they tells ya way down there, so you is happy and don't know no better. So you drive around unawares on Thnaksgiving while some Sergeant is getting chubby eatin' turkey with his wife and kids. Remember that.

Remember this, and take it from a travelin' man whose been around this block a few times...this whole thing is about money. Making it. Keeping it. It's a business and nothing else.

Take Care FolksToo much fun for this guy "

That post was funny

LOL :snicker:

Stop crying about it and take it up with the union rep or a supervisor in memo form. Sak up, make an official complaint, or shut up. Enough of this secret leo affairs B.S.

If you want something done about it, do something about it yourself. We all have an avenue. I trust we will find that the ones complaining only know half the story and perhaps may be embelishing a bit.

Until you prove your case, you will be looked at as nothing more than whining cry babies.

Make the complaint officially or stop yapping.

nothing will get done anyways
nothing ever does around here

Stop crying about it and take it up with the union rep or a supervisor in memo form. Sak up, make an official complaint, or shut up. Enough of this secret leo affairs B.S.

If you want something done about it, do something about it yourself. We all have an avenue. I trust we will find that the ones complaining only know half the story and perhaps may be embelishing a bit.

Until you prove your case, you will be looked at as nothing more than whining cry babies.

Make the complaint officially or stop yapping.

Good Idea Lonnie. Maybe we should take it up with the FOP. Thanks for your input!

Why must you always think that just becasue someone posts against your position that it must be the person you are speaking about? You are wrong. This is a simple case of put up or shut up. Sak up and make the official complaint and the investigation take place or keep it to yourself. Otherwise, the only policy that is being violated is by you for spreading gossip. Without proof that is all this is. Perhaps we should investigate you...If we only knew who you are? Hmmmm....I bet we can narrow it down if we wanted to... I don't, this topic bores me... However, I bet we talk about it again six months from now....

Amazing how some people who are married at the pd have no problem with coexisting, no schedule conflicts, and no lack of ot. Yet I recall two people who got married and the supervisor of one screwed them. He told one "if you want the same days off as your better half, you might wanna leave".


But if their name started with a B it would be different, do you think?

Haven't we beat this dead horse to death...

Seriously...we have shot, kicked, stabbed, strangled, and thrown this horse right off the cliff....Actually more than once....

How bout we talk about......weather.....politics.....anything but this stupid topic again.

It is clear that they are married and may stay that way. If the PD tried to break it up, the union would step in and cite standing practice.... This is a dumb argument and no amount of bickering is going to change the policy. Standing Practice+Union= No change. No matter how much certain people in the agency want it changed.

As for the ot....Make the complaint and prove your case or stop complaining.

UNION? WHAT UNION? Everytime we go to the table we get screwed!!!!

UNION? WHAT UNION? Everytime we go to the table we get screwed!!!!

And that is the union's fault...Fairly certain the officers have to approve the contract before it goes into effect.

So ultimately who's fault is it?

The union wouldn't turn it away IT'S CALLED CONFLICT OF INTEREST speak with the union to see what they can advise .Im sure it's against policy but what does that matter it's Pinellas Park.

The union wouldn't turn it away IT'S CALLED CONFLICT OF INTEREST speak with the union to see what they can advise .Im sure it's against policy but what does that matter it's Pinellas Park.

What are you talking about "Conflict of Interest." You apparently have no clue what you are speaking about. What policy governs you voting up or down on a contract?

The union wouldn't turn it away IT'S CALLED CONFLICT OF INTEREST speak with the union to see what they can advise .Im sure it's against policy but what does that matter it's Pinellas Park.

What are you talking about "Conflict of Interest." You apparently have no clue what you are speaking about. What policy governs you voting up or down on a contract?If you read it properly it was nothing to do with increases ,the whole issue was about marriage and scheming people DUMB AR**.Come on here when you read it correctly.

The union wouldn't turn it away IT'S CALLED CONFLICT OF INTEREST speak with the union to see what they can advise .Im sure it's against policy but what does that matter it's Pinellas Park.

Thank you for your intelligent way of pointing out I misread the post.

Let's try this response.

I don't have the problem therefore I don't have a need to take it to the union or to a boss. Oh and my name is not MB or LB or TS. Those making the allegation and accusation should take it union to get the remedy they seek. The reality, you won't because you can't prove your case or because you are afraid either way...all talk no action.

Prove it or move on....

why bother, you get black listed and screwed over

No, you mean, I really can't give you an example so why bother. The reality, the name you do throw out will likely be so full of other issues, you will not be able to make your point.

In truth, exactly what we expected you to say.