What would happen...

Would a CCSO employee get fired if they were to be Baker Acted?

[oldschool]

In short, I would have to say NO. Obviously, the member would have undergo therapy and would probably have to get a Psych clearance to return to full duty, But I just do not see the agency summarily cutting someone loose without first making a subsatantial effort to aid that member, an even then I think the member would have to seriously resist the efforts at help before termination.

On the other hand, if the actions leading up to the Baker Act were sufficiently serious or even criminal, the agency might not have a choice...
But then again, it would be those actions, not the Baker act, which would cause the firing...

[oldschool]

oops! in that last post I wrote "subsatanial" instead of substantial.sorry....

So you are saying that if someone attempts suicide they won't get fired if they don't succeed so long as they go through a pysch and go through counseling?

I have to agree with Oldschool. A baker Act is considered "Medical" and there are laws that protest someone under those conditions. As stataed I would think that for obvious reasons they would be placed on a medical leave or on light duty until cleared through a psychologist for eval on fitness for duty.

It is the same as if you tell the agency you have a chemical dependency problem. They would assist you in getting treatment the first time but if the problem continues or affects your performance then the agency could let you go.

To ellaborate further, our agency has a peer support group which enables you to seek advice or help through confidential resources. Everything is kept confidential and you are encouraged to use it if you need it.

From what I have seen, the Sheriff and the policies are supportive of the member during difficult personal times...you just have to tell someone first.

If you are "involuntarily" committed (Baker Act) you probably will get fired. If you voluntarily commit yourself than no you wouldn't get fired. I believe in order to purchase a firearm you can't have been involuntarily committed either.

If you are "involuntarily" committed (Baker Act) you probably will get fired. If you voluntarily commit yourself than no you wouldn't get fired. I believe in order to purchase a firearm you can't have been involuntarily committed either.

[Ten8hotel]

There is no short answer. Every case is different and handled according to it's own details. I can tell you that the sheriff agonizes about having to fire someone especially now with vacancies as they are. To hire and train a replacement is costly and time consuming. Baker acts are medical related and therefore protected. Admin folk walk on eggshells when dealing with a member who is in need of treatment either voluntarily or involuntary. They can and will bend over backwards to assist a member with what THEY ask for but will also quickly cut any ties to a member that does not show improvment and ability to perform their job after all reasonable efforts have been made to assist them.

[oldschool]

I don't have a firearms purchase form in front of me, but I seem to remember that the question on the ATF form asked about you being "declared" or "adjudicated" mentally ill, or mentally incompetent. That is done through the court system, by a judge. It is defintitely not the same thing as a Baker Act....The private ownership of firearms is a civil rights issue, and neither an LEO or a mental heatlth/medical professional can remove that right from a person on a permanant basis.
I agree with Ten8hotel, it is on a case by case basis. Also, I stand by my original post, in that if you did get fired, it would more than likely have to do with the behaviors and specific actions surrounding the Baker Act.
As a "what if", this is a valid question...but do you have a specific incident in mind?

I was just thinking back to several people who have since left the Agency (whether they were fired or left because they wanted to) and was wondering whether or not they HAD TO leave. In regards to getting help if you need it....someone needs to let the Sheriff know that the MAP program is a joke. If someone calls to get an appointment with someone on the provider list, they get turned away because there is no room for any new patients or they are told they have to wait several months for an appointment. What is the member supposed to do if they attempt to get help but can't find anyone willing to help? We should really have an inhouse Pyschologist on hand for any member of the agency who feels the need to talk to someone. This way there is no long waiting list and you don't feel helpless.

I agree. When Cop's need someone to talk to......it is usually right now, not tomorrow or next month. If I needed help, I wouldn't know who to turn to. I wouldn't talk to a cop, but would consider a doctor if he/she was avail.

You have to wonder why no one has tried to make the MAP Program better. Thats why the suicide/murder rates are so high for law enforcement. There is no one around that is willing to talk to you right then when you feel the need to. :(

[oldschool]

Oh , yeah, from what I have heard, MAP leaves much to be desired, and besides, we are always suspicious that it will somehow wind up in our file and hurt our careers that we had an issue of some kind.
But, as closely as we work together, day after day, with the same people, we ahould all have come across at least one person that we trusted enough to confide in and lean on in tough times....And we all have tough times, with career issues, marriage/divorce, child custody, money, job related stress...We have all stood over the bodies of suicides and wondered how this person got to such a dark place that they felt this was their only option...that they did not have one person they could call who would say "hey, I'm on you side, no matter what, we will get you through this..."
We are a family. We should take care of each other, beyond the official agency programs...These are people we are with everyday, that we work with and laugh with and cry with and sometimes almost die with. Don't we owe it to each other to watch out for our brothers and sisters?
Be a good listener. Help your brother through his pain.. take some of his burden...be there to keep the darkness away...That's what being a family is all about.

[oldschool]

P.S. - if you are reading this and don't think you have anybody you can count on, you are wrong- If you ever reach a point, get on here and somebody will get with you. If you want to be anonymous, IM me and I will run right down to Wal-Mart and get on of those untraceable no caller id prepaid cell phones for $50 and give you the number to call. I don't care about the $50, I care about gettig you over the rough spot-we all do.
So if you need us, we are here!

Thanks OldSchool. I have a hard time trusting people at the CCSO because of all the gossip that circulates. Its difficult to know who you can trust and who you can't. Plus you dont want people that you work with to know the crap you are dealing with and thinking about. The fact that you have to worry about things going in your file if you do happen to utilze the MAP program is pretty sad if you ask me.

[oldschool]

I am not saying it will wind up in your file, but that is a common fear, in every agency, from the NYPD to the LAPD and every department in between....