by You have the right to your own opions but not your own facts » 02/10/11 17:22:28
Question: How many of those Truck drivers, Sanitation workers, farmers, fisherman and timber workers were MURDERED by another human for doing their job? THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE! Or are you too hardheaded to even understand that?
Answer: The method of your death does not matter, when you’re dead your dead. In all professions when the families suffer the loss of a father, husband, son, brother and uncle and their grief is just as great. The primary difference is that the spouse and children of non police professions must try to pick up the pieces without lifetime tax free pension benefits, free college tuition, large life insurance payouts and no family support from the community.
Question: We are not asking for "million dollar pay packages"; only what we were promised when we took the oath to serve and protect. That is not too much to ask.
Answer: It is too much to ask for when cities and states are going bankrupt and their biggest liability is the payroll for fire and police. The pay and benefits should be in line with the rest of the private sector. Read the fine print, what you were promised at the time in writing is always subject to be changed based on market conditions and available state revenues.
Question: If police work were not a government job, our services would cost an exorbitant amount of money in the private sector.
Answer: Do not kid yourself. Just call CIS, Wackenhut, and Brinks and see what they will offer you in pay and benefits. There are applicants lined up to take your job for half the pay and benefits.
Question: If the police stopped working our society as we know it would fall apart in a matter of hours... yes, hours. Police do not exist because of society; our society exists because of what we do 24hrs a day.
Answer: Your assumptions are so inaccurate. The police do not prevent crimes they react to crimes after they have already been committed. Just read the ucr guide lines and you will see that. I like so many of my friends do not need the police for our protection. Any person who is dependant on the police to protect them will be a victim soon enough. The police are only proactive at collecting revenue by issuing traffic citations which any Wackenhut security guard is capable of doing...
Question: You would not last 3 minutes in our shoes. So go back to your safe little job in office somewhere and let the REAL MEN fight your fights for you and your family because you are too much of a coward to do it yourself. Sleep well at night knowing that violent men stand ready to fight what you fear. Really?
Answer: Again your assumptions are inaccurate. I wore your shoes not for just 3 minutes but for 11,563,200 minutes working in the worst areas of this city. I sleep very well at night knowing that when I first took the job I did because I had a passion to serve and it was a proud honorable profession. It was not the $14,500.00 a year that attracted to become a police officer. I am retired now and I am grateful every day for the job that provided my family a modest living and now a modest retirement. Every day I meet people in the real world who are suffering and struggling just trying to get buy. It sickens me to hear those who took an oath to serve threatening work slow downs and throwing out the officers killed card attempting to get what they want. We live in a new time and things will not be getting better for many years to come you may not even see it improve during your career tenure. So accept your fate and move on with your career or go into a different profession. You have chosen the wrong career to get rich and retire early. That was yesterday’s news.
You have the right to your own opions but not your own facts
Wrong. The method of death does matter. You see, the fact that LEOs dont die in the same numbers in the same ways that the other professions you mentioned, shows that LEOs are highly intelligent, enough to avoid the same MANNER of death that take these other professionals.
Yes we are more intelligent. And we should be paid for our expertise. The sad thing is when a human decides to MURDER another human, often times there is no way to stop the murder. WHEN was the last time a garbage man was MURDERED on the job?
"Read the fine print, what you were promised at the time in writing is always subject to be changed based on market conditions and available state revenues."
You lost all credibility with this answer. So, written contracts are subject to change by things NOT IN WRITTING. (Rolling On The Floor LMAO). Show me in writing my contract that says the state does not have to abide by their contracts.
"Do not kid yourself. Just call CIS, Wackenhut, and Brinks and see what they will offer you in pay and benefits. There are applicants lined up to take your job for half the pay and benefits."
Yeah, they've been lined up for years.....and they still DO NOT QUALIFY!
"Your assumptions are so inaccurate. The police do not prevent crimes they react to crimes after they have already been committed."
No wonder you no longer work as a LEO. Please tell this to Docobo, because when he realizes this then we will have all the free time in world on duty. I cant wait for that to happen. (Please don’t tell him this because he may very well knock you the hell out.)
"It sickens me to hear those who took an oath to serve threatening work slow downs and throwing out the officers killed card attempting to get what they want."
Wrong again. We are attempting to retain what we were promised. You dont see us trying to get what we want....YET...... That is 15 years and out at 6%......but rest assured when the economy recovers, and it's already on the way, you will see us fighting for this. Since as you stated “"Read the fine print, what [we] were promised at the time in writing is always subject to be changed based on market conditions…” , we should be paid in accordance with the state of the economy and our original contracts mean nothing.
And by the way, some of us did get into this profession for the pay……so what? Don’t like it? Too bad.
Ya know what makes me sick? Ya know what makes me so angry I could lick a rusty lawn mower blade? It is when the previous old timer poster that blasted our profession turns right around and tells us he did it for 22 years and retired?! Yeah that''s the 11 million plus minutes and change he/she touted they worked the streets of the fair city. Isn't is just great that jack arse has his "modest pension" as he calls it then has the nerve to tell us all to suck it up. Well buddy you can pissss off. The streets are getting worse not better. You want to know what will happen if Wackenhut takes over, try New Orleans after Katrina. Thugs ruled until the National Guard got there because law enforcement took a X8. St. Pete and Tampa would burn to the ground without cops. In the county the gangs and rowdy rednecks would be uninhibited.
We already work wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy short on manpower at HCSO and still are getting the job done. We work hard everyday. To blame us for any economic ills is retarded. A deal is a deal. Next pension check you get old timer go choke on it.
Sad isn't it. Once again, this just goes to show that we as Leo's mean nothing to the citizens of this state and that all these years of Community Oriented Policing and bending over backwards to try and make "Joe Citizen" happy has DONE NOTHING to improve relations. You have 11 Leos gunned down in one week and the next week they want to chop our benefits and cut our pay. It's hard to stay motivated when the public we serve on a daily basis has once again turned its backs on us to save $45.00 a year in taxes. I'm tired of hearing our own command staff bosses routinely turn on us & Monday morning quarterback every decision to death. I'm fed up with this office, county, state & job and can't wait to soon be able to put all the stress now involved with this thankless job behind me!Guest
There you go again, every time you do don’t get your way you throw out the officers killed card. Well guess what. The citizens are not falling for it. Cops do not even make the top ten lists for most dangerous jobs. Truck drivers, Sanitation workers, farmers, fisherman and timber workers all die on the job at greater per capita numbers than cops yet we do not hear them whining because they do not have million dollar pay packages but if they all stopped working this country would come to a grinding halt. If the police stopped working it would be business as usual. So get a real mans job and quit whining.
Put down the Fox News kool aide and have an independent thought for once.
Cops are killed trying to protect those that they serve.......people like you. Why do truckers die???
My suggestion to you is the next time you need a cop call Wackenhut and see what type of person you get.
About your screaming about the money we make........in Hillsborough County the BOCC ties to pay their people at the rate of 50% of what they could get in the private sector. That is the reason for the benefits............they offset the poor salaries.
You must really hate cops as I have not heard you complain about the huge benefit packages and payouts when top government administrators are run out of office.
if you can't be 100% truthful/honest, you are in the wrong profession
Average Joe wrote:Cops are killed trying to protect those that they serve.......people like you. Why do truckers die???
My suggestion to you is the next time you need a cop call Wackenhut and see what type of person you get.
About your screaming about the money we make........in Hillsborough County the BOCC ties to pay their people at the rate of 50% of what they could get in the private sector. That is the reason for the benefits............they offset the poor salaries.
You must really hate cops as I have not heard you complain about the huge benefit packages and payouts when top government administrators are run out of office.
Wrong Answer! Cops are killed when they become complacent and do not follow proper protocol. I have reviewed hundreds of officer killed summaries and in every case the officers made a fatal mistake authoring their own demise.
Average Joe wrote:Cops are killed trying to protect those that they serve.......people like you. Why do truckers die???
My suggestion to you is the next time you need a cop call Wackenhut and see what type of person you get.
About your screaming about the money we make........in Hillsborough County the BOCC ties to pay their people at the rate of 50% of what they could get in the private sector. That is the reason for the benefits............they offset the poor salaries.
You must really hate cops as I have not heard you complain about the huge benefit packages and payouts when top government administrators are run out of office.
Wrong Answer! Cops are killed when they become complacent and do not follow proper protocol. I have reviewed hundreds of officer killed summaries and in every case the officers made a fatal mistake authoring their own demise.
Oh really!!!? So according to you when cops makes a mistake they often die. When a garbage man makes a mistake, what happens? They have to re-do what ever it is the made a mistake on. I'm glad we both agree of the unique dangers of a cop's job. Hence the promise of a decent retiement.
By the way, what mistake did Sgt. R. Harrison make that led to his own demise? Was his mistake the fact that he didn't pull a gun on every vehicle stopped next to him, all the time, every day, for all 30 something years of his combined LEO career?
Average Joe wrote:Cops are killed trying to protect those that they serve.......people like you. Why do truckers die???
My suggestion to you is the next time you need a cop call Wackenhut and see what type of person you get.
About your screaming about the money we make........in Hillsborough County the BOCC ties to pay their people at the rate of 50% of what they could get in the private sector. That is the reason for the benefits............they offset the poor salaries.
You must really hate cops as I have not heard you complain about the huge benefit packages and payouts when top government administrators are run out of office.
Wrong Answer! Cops are killed when they become complacent and do not follow proper protocol. I have reviewed hundreds of officer killed summaries and in every case the officers made a fatal mistake authoring their own demise.
I really don't know why I am even responding to this post, other then the fact that YOU are the TEXT BOOK DEFINITION of the phrase "Monday morning quarterbacking". You have the sickening nerve to sit in the comfort of your own home or office and tell every officer who has "paid the ultimate sacrifice" that they are dead because of their own fault. You sir are a low life piece of garbage, who obtains a false sense of power & superiority by insulting others and no doubt proclaiming the usual after the fact arrogant mentality of "If I had done it or been there..............blah blah blah" It also well noted that in your self proclaimed fantasy world, you feel the need to use RED TYPING on this site to once again show how above everyone else you are. Do us all a favor and go back to looking at & admiring yourself in the mirror and probably ordering your wife (poor lady) and dog (sorry Fido) around. In the meantime let the real heroes......military, police, & fire do their jobs and may they be paid their much deserved money & benefits they were promised.
Oh really!!!? So according to you when cops makes a mistake they often die. When a garbage man makes a mistake, what happens? They have to re-do what ever it is the made a mistake on. I'm glad we both agree of the unique dangers of a cop's job. Hence the promise of a decent retiement.
By the way, what mistake did Sgt. R. Harrison make that led to his own demise? Was his mistake the fact that he didn't pull a gun on every vehicle stopped next to him, all the time, every day, for all 30 something years of his combined LEO career?
When sanitation workers are working around dangerous heavy machinery all day long and they make a mistake it may also be fatal. Sgt. Harrison was at the end of his shift driving home. He was complacent and let his guard down and should have seen that individual approaching his patrol car carrying an object whether concealed or not. Police routinely practice these type of scenarios. Instead of exiting his vehicle immediately and confronting the individual he was to lazy to get out of the patrol car making him a sitting target. He had the option to drive to a tactical position away from the subject when he first observed him allowing him adequate time and cover to exit his vehicle. When you wear the uniform and drive a patrol car whether you are on or off duty you must always be observant of your surroundings and prepared to take action.
Guest wrote:Oh really!!!? So according to you when cops makes a mistake they often die. When a garbage man makes a mistake, what happens? They have to re-do what ever it is the made a mistake on. I'm glad we both agree of the unique dangers of a cop's job. Hence the promise of a decent retiement.
By the way, what mistake did Sgt. R. Harrison make that led to his own demise? Was his mistake the fact that he didn't pull a gun on every vehicle stopped next to him, all the time, every day, for all 30 something years of his combined LEO career?
When sanitation workers are working around dangerous heavy machinery all day long and they make a mistake it may also be fatal. Sgt. Harrison was at the end of his shift driving home. He was complacent and let his guard down and should have seen that individual approaching his patrol car carrying an object whether concealed or not. Police routinely practice these type of scenarios. Instead of exiting his vehicle immediately and confronting the individual he was to lazy to get out of the patrol car making him a sitting target. He had the option to drive to a tactical position away from the subject when he first observed him allowing him adequate time and cover to exit his vehicle. When you wear the uniform and drive a patrol car whether you are on or off duty you must always be observant of your surroundings and prepared to take action.
The folks who talked down about you a 100% right. YOU ARE ONE SICK INDIVIDUAL. Please get yourself some help sir, there are many medications out there that can possibly help your condition. HCSO already has a staff member near the top that thinks like you and he has practically ruined the entire sheriff's office. I didn't think it was possible for two people's brains to function so sickly. All I have to say is "what goes around comes around", so just you wait....
Guest wrote:Sgt. Harrison was at the end of his shift driving home. He was complacent and let his guard down and should have seen that individual approaching his patrol car carrying an object whether concealed or not. Police routinely practice these type of scenarios. Instead of exiting his vehicle immediately and confronting the individual he was to lazy to get out of the patrol car making him a sitting target. He had the option to drive to a tactical position away from the subject when he first observed him allowing him adequate time and cover to exit his vehicle.
You are speaking of a situation in which you know nothing about when you reference this incident. Based on your above paragraph it is obvious that you have no idea what occurred that night to Ron Harrison and how the events unfolded. Ron Harrison did nothing wrong and was murdered solely on the fact that he was a law enforcement officer. If any other cop would have been stopped at the same traffic light that night and at the same time, the exact same results would have occurred. If you wish to post that all of our pensions and benefits need to be cut then have at it but quit posting about something that you have no clue about.
Remember, there's more to life than work. Be safe my brothers and sisters.
Like it or not, there is a general trend across the US to phase out state and local government pensions. Florida public employees hired after July 1st will get a DC (defined contribution) plan for retirement instead of the FRS defined benefit plan. They will be responsible for saving, managing and investing their own retirement money. The local and state governments don't want the cost, risk and responsibility of running pension funds. They have learned the hard way what the private sector learned many years ago when it started closing pension funds in favor of 401k plans.
Guest wrote:Like it or not, there is a general trend across the US to phase out state and local government pensions. Florida public employees hired after July 1st will get a DC (defined contribution) plan for retirement instead of the FRS defined benefit plan. They will be responsible for saving, managing and investing their own retirement money. The local and state governments don't want the cost, risk and responsibility of running pension funds. They have learned the hard way what the private sector learned many years ago when it started closing pension funds in favor of 401k plans.
Yeah they learned that the rich keep getting richer and that the wealthy (rick scott) protect the wealthy. You cannot convince any of us that the FRS was anything but a completely sound and successful program. As reported by numerous magazines such as Forbes & Money Magazine, 2008 & 2010 articles, Florida's State Pension Program was one of the top 4 in the Nation. I guess Rick Scott is smarter then all the financial experts that contribute to these publications, as well as all the other media sources that have ranked the FRS as one of the best in the country. Rick Scott has targeted the FRS ONLY because he wants to get his greedy hands on a large portion of the money for other programs. Since he has not touched any of the money sources from the state's rich & wealthy population, he has to TAKE IT from the middle class. Gee, whats new! There is little doubt that any Deputy at HCSO with less then 10 years on the job will eventually be forced to switch over to a 401K plan, which will be much less lucrative & susceptible to great sudden losses depending on the economy. Can you imagine serving 25-30 years doing one of the most stressful & dangerous jobs in the nation for average pay at best and then find out one morning that your 401K money has been cut in half or wiped out by a sudden decline on Wallstreet! One of the absolute main reasons that so many cops stay to make this a career, is not for the weekly pay, but for the benefits at the end of the road. I guarantee that when (not if) the proposed changes go into effect, the caliber of new people and the ones choosing to stay in this profession will be subpar at best. The office will have to drastically reduce it's hiring standards, which will ultimately reduce the level of service to the citizens of Hillsborough County and around the entire State of Florida. Nice move Rick Scott and all that support him....
I dont think they will be able to force a change to the 401k on anyone who is already working under the pension plan, 10 years or not. It one thing to tell future employees, "If you want to be our slaves you have to agree to these rules". It's another thing to say, "Even though you have already agreed to certain rules when you became our slave, we are going to change the rules on you. And no you can't change any rules that you want to change, because we have a contract that you agreed to abide by".
They can't have it both ways. They cant change the rules and neither can we. We cant sat, "Ok i'm retiring after 15 yers at 9% per year, that's what I've decided so you must abide by it, Now payup!"
Guest wrote:Like it or not, there is a general trend across the US to phase out state and local government pensions. Florida public employees hired after July 1st will get a DC (defined contribution) plan for retirement instead of the FRS defined benefit plan. They will be responsible for saving, managing and investing their own retirement money. The local and state governments don't want the cost, risk and responsibility of running pension funds. They have learned the hard way what the private sector learned many years ago when it started closing pension funds in favor of 401k plans.
And because of the good benefits received many took reduced pay. An example is here in Hillsborough County were the average county employees pay was 50% lower than that of a counter part working in the private sector. If you do not believe me then I would suggest you look at the Haye Study that was completed years ago, but still followed.
I would hope that our employees will get the raises that go with there current jobs. You can either pay me now, or pay me later.
if you can't be 100% truthful/honest, you are in the wrong profession
