To explain some concerns, with regards to the accountability of the interest card that is asked of you to fill out with your name and signature should answer your question of whether the submitted card is yours. At the time that hopefully all the cards are returned they will be counted for the purpose of ascertaining a majority. The cards will be provided to the FOP and if you need to insure the count is appropriate then each member can verify if the card with their name on it is authentic. To answer why the card is being sent to a PO Box was to ensure that the person who sent out the cards can also remain private until a decision is made. I can assure you that the practice is very legitimate. To answer the question of why a FOP representative didn't send them was because they are remaining impartial and not involved until the count has been made. At which time they will be notified that the majority has returned the card seeking interest, and only then will FOP involve themselves. In an effort to help explain how the process works, or any other questions please feel free to ask. I will answer any serious question or request. Thanks for your professionalism when using this post.
This was an answer to a post under silly stuff.
This is NOT about the reps this about acquiring change from the same nonsense being offered by the PBA and it is obvious that something has to be done otherwise we're going to loose out again. To be honest with you, I'm in the belief that if the city sees more unity through a change that they may look upon this as a sign of seriousness on our part. They too have watched the nonsense that has been brought before them over the years. Don't you think they're sitting back and having a good laugh when they see 30 + or - people show up holding signs regarding unsafe working conditions because we are under staffed, when the real reason we're at ends is about money. Common let's be real. There is nothing secretive going on with exception that you don't know which one of us has started the ball rolling. The FOP has been asked how to go about this. After hearing the options and knowing how alot of people would react the decision was made to have the interest cards mailed to your home, so you could make a choice without the harassment. You're right maybe ten years ago the FOP was asked to meet with us. I don't know about you, but I wish it had happened back then. Here we are, the PBA changed our minds then, and now we are still no further ahead. Do you really think that the city wants to sit down with people that constantly bad mouth the mayor or commission. There is alot of people who don't always agree. Let's look at it from a different perspective; how would you react to sitting across the table from slanderous bully tactics? How far do you think we would be if people representing us would have sat down and first listened and then talked. Negotiations are a two way street. If you think that the letter sent with your interest card was a nasty gram then you were mistaken, the letter could have been several pages long with truths and facts. However just a few were mentioned that everyone is very familiar with. The bottom line is nothing is going to happen if we don't do something to change the views of the city. Sorry I guess this was or could be construed as bad timing for the present reps. but the truth be known they too can't answer the big question; What are you going to do about settling the contract issue? Everyone needs to be realistic, how far do you think we're going to get now with the latest scandal between the police and the commission. I'm sorry if some feelings are going to be hurt about the present reps being again challenged with a vote if we do decide to change our bargaining unit, but that should be accepted for the betterment of all. Otherwise they have proven early on that it's all about them and not us. Please fill out your interest cards and mail them in, so we can all listen to the FOP at which time all the members will be able to be heard by casting a vote; either in favor of the FOP, or in favor to stay bogged down with an organization who is filling their pockets with your money and giving you inadequate representation when it comes to OUR contract. One last thought; how much true, valid and concerning representation do you think the PBA is going to give us now after wanting to rid ourselves from the present negotiator. People we have made ourselves, along with the likes of others who sit in their office on State Road 84 the laughing stock of the Florida PBA. You know what needs to be done, let's do it.
Still an FOP Hopeful
Im perplexed by your great new interest for the FOP and timing. I'm not going to get into a long drawn out comment but you can call me (954-854-7783) or the other new reps any time. If the majority of the members want to explore other union bodies they come to us and there is a protocol to complete this procedure. I sent an e-mail to all PBA members that this same topic will be discussed during detail sign-up, please join us and in your own words we can accomplish our goals in a professional manner.
Thanks for your invitation to call and attend the detail sign ups. I will be at the sign ups and I await your explanation on what you describe as protocol. I will however remain quiet not out of fear but rather respect towards those who wish not to be harassed or intimidated into making a choice for themselves.
I just read the following posts and wonder if I can put in on my time card, for the 10 minutes I've just waisted in my life.......Yawn. Hey Mr. FOP who is going to pay your lawyer fees when the lodge runs dry? Why do you think other departments have gone away from it. If your not huge it is not cost effective.
FOP Hopeful is the one who is "spearheading" this so called needed change...and apparently calls himself a police officer. However, he is too much of a coward to have the courage to voice his opinion at a meeting because he feels intimidated by the big bad bullying PBA reps. FOP Hopeful...you shouldn't even wear a badge if you are that much of a pussy.
Dear Sleepy, When a smaller agency joins the FOP the size of Hallandale any attorneys that may be needed are supplied through the State Lodge who provides legal counsel in the case that you or I decide to do something that may warrant the need of an attorney. No money from the local lodge is used for attorney's fees. In fact the dues are significantly less with FOP compared to PBA, (now there's a shocker). In fact the monthly dues are approximately $25.00 a month. This money goes to the state lodge. In fact members could decide to pay $40.00 a monthwhich is a savings from what they pay now, and $15.00 per member each month would go to the Hallandale Beach Lodge. This money could be used for a variety of things with the members permission of course. Do you know where all the money you're paying goes? The only time that the lodge would run dry of money is if there was some mis appropriation of funds, therefore my suggestion would be to vote an honest and trustworthy treasurer. Thanks for your question.
You are somewhat correct in your analogy, I am the one who is bringing this forward to the members for them to decide if listening to the FOP might be to our better interest. As to your personal slanderous comment of me being a coward, I'll repeat my stand on the situation. I feel that the membership should be informed there are other avenues to pursue. If the membership decides not to send a return interest card it should be their choice, not yours or mine. To come forward at a meeting this early would go against what I've been trying to say along. Each officer and sergeant within the Hallandale Beach Police Department is intelligent enough to make their own decision without any influence from me who is in favor of meeting with the FOP, or from as you put it, "The big bad bullying PBA reps" and anyone else who has made the decision not to be open minded to listen to the potential of something better. Rest assure my presence at this Detail Sign Up / PBA Meeting will not influence anyone and the constant negativity that you and others have displayed make it very clear that the PBA is and will do everything possible to influence the members by calling me a coward who should not wear a badge. I just hope that there are still officers within our agency that are not so closed minded as yourself. Thanks for showing those who have an opinion, that it means absolutely nothing unless it is in your favor. Hope you have a better day.
Listen silly, I personally don't see how you voicing your opinion of going to fop at a PBA meeting is bullying, but hey... to each their own. I mean really how are we supposed to react to yours and the fop back door tactics of trying to turn the dept onto fop. This whole process that you're going through seems pretty shady if you ask me. Are we men or mice here? If you have inside knowledge about fop why would you not find your spine, stand up on your two legs and tell the membership about all their missing out on. obviously you know something that we all don't and you're refusing to share it with the membership. That being said, if your're such a team player and truly want what is best for the department and the membership than it's pretty piss poor that you won't enlighten us with you knowledge. Sounds to me someone has their OWN AGENDA their trying to push but lack the intestinal fortitude to speak on it. Yeah this doens't sound like a crock of crap or anything.
1) When do you plan on counting the received FOP interest cards?
2) How do we know you arn't going to be less than truthful on the number of returned interest cards?
3) Why would the FOP simply not call for a meeting to educate the membership of what they have to offer.
4) If the PBA is so bad why are the majority of departments using them?
5) What experience do you have with the FOP?
6) Why do you feel so strongly about FOP being a good thing?
7) Why FOP as oppose to another barganing unit besides the PBA or FOP?
#1. As stated it is with hopes that by October 1, 2010 all the cards that would be sent could be counted then.
#2. The number of returned cards will have the name and signature of the person sending it. If there is a majority, then the cards can be made available to everyone for verification that they actually sent the card.
#3. Contact was made with FOP asking how to go about the process. Their response was: we will give you "interest cards" to be given to your members. If and only when a majority of cards are returned would they consider sitting down and have a meeting explaining their organization. They would not become involved with our members until they were notified and the majority of the membership submitted cards of interest.
#4. I'm sorry I can not answer that question. I do know however over the last few years there have been agencies switching to FOP.
#5. None. My experience is only limited to inquiring about their process, in order to create an option for our members to look at and chose if a change may be to the betterment of the membership.
#6. I feel strongly about trying to better ourselves. History has spoken volumes. We are not in a good position, and I would like to have everyone know that there are alternatives. We should remain open minded to the idea that there may be a better way of getting things done. This is not about individuals, this is about all of us looking and listening to what else is out there. Then and only then can the membership decide what is best for them.
#7. As far as strength there really is only two unions FOP and PBA. I have no knowledge of the others.
I never said that. I merely stated that the PBA meeting would not be a place for me or anyone else to intimidate a free choice of change. I feel that expressing myself at the meeting would only cause more anger and hostility towards those who do not wish to change. In addition I have more respect for the PBA reps than to begin challenging them in front of the membership.
I can't answer why no one else has considered doing what I have done. Yet throughout the hallways displeasure can be heard and seen. Perhaps others have been afraid to take the step towards change, you'll have to ask them. As for myself my only intention is to try and bring back some dignity through presenting the idea that listening to the FOP might help. Trust me, if the majority of the membership wants to stay with the PBA so be it. I myself am obviously not a majority. However if there is a majority wishing to hear what the FOP has to offer, how do you or anyone else propose to bring it forward. I can assure you that my spine is very straight and very strong, and I have been standing on my own two legs. I can also assure you that I do not have my own agenda. In conclusion it is not my place to tell the membership how the FOP works, that would be better left up to the FOP representatives to explain if and when the time becomes appropriate. Let the police officers and sergeants decide for themselves if FOP is something they want. I will make one comment though; it is very apparent that you are not in favor of the possibility of betterment and isn't that the majority of our problems. If this is not for you that's fine however you are just one of 84 members. Hope you have a better day.
I thought I would chime in and put it to rest. It seems quite a number of people, including members of the Admin think I am the person behind the F.O.P. Thing.
I am not. If I was, I would have brought it up at the meeting. I was whole heartedly unimpressed with their contract negotiations, their lack of understanding in certain areas, and they’re not taking advantage of several (in my opinion) extremely damaging statements made by the city during the last hearing on our contract. The city attorney made some incredibly counterable statements which never even got mentioned.
That being said, they did have some pull in getting a couple of our city managers to "better understand" our plight.
My Opinion regarding F.O.P.:
I don't know a whole lot about it. It has been my understanding we are responsible for funding our own "war chest" and in my opinion we simply don't have the numbers to make that route a viable option. Yesterday, Major KC told me it doesn’t exactly work like that. He advised our dues would be based on a state FOP minimum. That amount would go to the State FOP who provides us attorneys other benefits. We could then determine an additional amount to be withdrawn which would go to our local account and "war chest." That sounds a bit more interesting.
Several prohibitive issues still remain:
1. We are responsible for our own account.
2. We will need Officers (Pres, VP, Sec, Treasurer)
3. Anytime we need shirts, banners etc... We have to source them, order them, pick them up, and pay for them.
4. We will likely lose several political affiliations we have been able to work with, in the past.
It raises some curiosities but I am not thinking the benefits of moving make the push worthwhile. That is my opinion based on the limited knowledge I have of the situation. My opinion and $3.00 should get you a nice cup of coffee.
I am available for comments and you all know where to find me. See you at detail sign ups tonight.
i have 3 questions for the FOP Hopeful:
1) you mentioned you will tally the results and provide us with the vote count and only then will you make your identity known. will that hold true even if the results are not in your favor?
2) i believe miami pd have FOP. if so, those guys got the shaft on their pay and benefits worse than us. how do we know FOP will be able to do any better than PBA?
3) By excluding other unions from the opportunity to participate, does that conflict with any labor laws?
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