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Thread: 3-3-3.5

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    LOL; so true. What an ungrateful crybaby. The amount of work, growth and money pouring into this city we definitely deserve whatever increases we can get, “six figures” or not. It kinda sounds like you don’t agree with our salary and you have some delusion that we are rolling in dough. It’s 2020 and I hate to be the one to tell it to you but we really don’t make that much compared to the private sector. Sure, we have a pension, a pension that we pay out the @SS for, just as they have employee matched 401K and other benefits. My kid brother is making what I make with a lot less stress. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining, enjoy my chosen career and live well within my means, but don’t think we are all buying second homes and fancy cars. I am happy with what we get and don’t need to work extra duty to pay my bills, but don’t act like “six figures” is some big deal. Maybe in some areas, but not a city like this that puts up high rise luxury condos like lemonade stands. Condos that 99% of TPD officers could not afford without being a courtesy officer or having some other outside funding source (ie family money or high earning spouse). Why do you think so many of us live outside of the city? Oh, and for the record, I don’t make “six figures” here so, if you do, I’m glad for you and I hope to be there one day!
    Yeah, defined benefit pensions and defined contribution 401ks are pretty much the same...

    Let's say your brother automatically gets raises like you do- even if he doesn't deserve them, and his pay matches yours during his career. If he contributes 10% of his salary to his 401k, and the average private sector match is 4.7% (forget the fact that the City contributes about 12.5% to our 10, that doesn't happen in the real world), we'll say his total annual investment averages $13,000 during his 25 year career. If he puts it in risky investments at first, then safer as he approaches retirement, he might average an 8% return. At 25 years your brother's retirement account would be worth about $1M. Not bad. But he only worked for 25 years, and he might not even be 50 yet. He needs that money to last 30 more years. The only way to be sure that it will is to take a percentage out annually that is small enough that it will DEFINITELY be made up in investment gains. That's maybe 2.5-3%, or $25,000-$30,000 annually. Quite the kick in the balls for someone accustomed to $100k per year at the end of their career.

    If you contribute 10% for 20 years, never get promoted, don't pay out any holidays, have no shift diff, overtime, or education incentive, etc., and during that time the city contributes almost three times the average private sector 401k match, you'll see a pension of about $63,000 in today's dollars (or at least 2021 dollars according to the new contract). During your last 5 years you put the 10% that you're no longer paying into the pension into your brand new $0 balance deferred comp account, still contributing 10% annually for 25 total years, just like your brother. Meanwhile your DROP begins accumulating (with COLAs). You cash out 240 hours of annual time and a very reasonable 1,000 hours of sick on your way out the door. Assuming the same 8% return as your brother on DROP and deferred compensation, you'd walk with $515,000 in the bank for five years of "effort" that didn't change your budget by a single dime- half of what your brother spent 25 years accumulating, and a pension for the rest of your life that starts at $68k after those five years of COLAs while you were in DROP, and increases on average $1,200 annually until you die.

    Go see how much a $68k annuity with $1,200 COLAs is for a 50 year old, and you'll have some idea of how much your pension is worth.

    We are well compensated. Everyone would love to make the most money possible, but we need to be reasonable and look at the big picture. The OP IS an ungrateful crybaby whining about half a percent.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Yeah, defined benefit pensions and defined contribution 401ks are pretty much the same...

    Let's say your brother automatically gets raises like you do- even if he doesn't deserve them, and his pay matches yours during his career. If he contributes 10% of his salary to his 401k, and the average private sector match is 4.7% (forget the fact that the City contributes about 12.5% to our 10, that doesn't happen in the real world), we'll say his total annual investment averages $13,000 during his 25 year career. If he puts it in risky investments at first, then safer as he approaches retirement, he might average an 8% return. At 25 years your brother's retirement account would be worth about $1M. Not bad. But he only worked for 25 years, and he might not even be 50 yet. He needs that money to last 30 more years. The only way to be sure that it will is to take a percentage out annually that is small enough that it will DEFINITELY be made up in investment gains. That's maybe 2.5-3%, or $25,000-$30,000 annually. Quite the kick in the balls for someone accustomed to $100k per year at the end of their career.

    If you contribute 10% for 20 years, never get promoted, don't pay out any holidays, have no shift diff, overtime, or education incentive, etc., and during that time the city contributes almost three times the average private sector 401k match, you'll see a pension of about $63,000 in today's dollars (or at least 2021 dollars according to the new contract). During your last 5 years you put the 10% that you're no longer paying into the pension into your brand new $0 balance deferred comp account, still contributing 10% annually for 25 total years, just like your brother. Meanwhile your DROP begins accumulating (with COLAs). You cash out 240 hours of annual time and a very reasonable 1,000 hours of sick on your way out the door. Assuming the same 8% return as your brother on DROP and deferred compensation, you'd walk with $515,000 in the bank for five years of "effort" that didn't change your budget by a single dime- half of what your brother spent 25 years accumulating, and a pension for the rest of your life that starts at $68k after those five years of COLAs while you were in DROP, and increases on average $1,200 annually until you die.

    Go see how much a $68k annuity with $1,200 COLAs is for a 50 year old, and you'll have some idea of how much your pension is worth.

    We are well compensated. Everyone would love to make the most money possible, but we need to be reasonable and look at the big picture. The OP IS an ungrateful crybaby whining about half a percent.
    That’s a great explanation and I appreciate the time you took to write it. You obviously know a lot about this and I’m sure you’ll be set when you retire. I, on the other hand, do not have that good of a grasp so will have to shell out for someone to do the planning for me. And yes, OP is still a cry baby

  3. #13
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    Unreal

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    the employee union got 3/3/3.5. You would think we could get at lease get that extra .5
    Most of them make around 35k year, not 90k. Are you really going to whine about their $525 raise in year 3 of the contract compared to your $2700.00

    Maybe you want to clock out for your meal breaks too so you can be just like them.

  4. #14
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    Wow, I can't tell if you guys are just jerks or city shills. Is it that unreasonable that an officer asks for more money then the general fund employees? We have dramatically different jobs. I'm not making a million a year as a brain surgeon because I don't have the skills, so that surgeon is getting paid more than me. Yet I am doing more than most of the general fund employees, working off hours and putting my life on the line. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the sanitation guys and the water department. They work hard. But last time I checked they didn't have to put a memorial up for all of their guys who got killed on their jobs. I agree we get a decent wage here, but it isn't like there is a huge line of people yerning for this job (or so personnel keeps telling us). I know it might be shocking, but during a contract negotiation people like to ask for more money, so let him ask for more if he wants. Which brings me to what I think should be the issue here in negotiations.

    Manpower. Staffing. We had a shift bid and the final deployments looked like someone took a shotgun to a piece of swiss cheese. How can the city even consider shift bid "completed" when they are squads missing supervisors and officers everywhere? Squads now are hitting the street with no one available. Call wait times are ridiculous and the higher ups keep thinking up more random assignments (hey, someone important called and said he thinks a dog is barking at this intersection, have a unit go out there a few times during this week and put the event numbers on the end of shift report. Don't forget to go to mandatory training you already had even though it leaves less people on the street). What about the city's abuse of rescheduling us for every random special event they feel like? The city has the right to reschedule us, but it's against the law for them to play with our schedules to avoid paying overtime. I mean come on, professional wrestling is an "emergency" that requires restricted days off and the city forcing officers on their days off to come in and work without legally compensating them? Hey, it's a capitalist world. If you can't fill off-duty positions then you need to offer more money. If you want to "city sponsor" a hundred events and provide "free" policing, then you have to pay the officers their due. Forcing officers to work them, they telling them that they are changing schedules to not have to pay overtime is a violation of federal law. This has been going on for years and getting worse as time goes by. THATS WHAT THE UNION SHOULD BE WORKING ON.

    Now, feel free to troll away!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Wow, I can't tell if you guys are just jerks or city shills. Is it that unreasonable that an officer asks for more money then the general fund employees? We have dramatically different jobs. I'm not making a million a year as a brain surgeon because I don't have the skills, so that surgeon is getting paid more than me. Yet I am doing more than most of the general fund employees, working off hours and putting my life on the line. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the sanitation guys and the water department. They work hard. But last time I checked they didn't have to put a memorial up for all of their guys who got killed on their jobs. I agree we get a decent wage here, but it isn't like there is a huge line of people yerning for this job (or so personnel keeps telling us). I know it might be shocking, but during a contract negotiation people like to ask for more money, so let him ask for more if he wants. Which brings me to what I think should be the issue here in negotiations.

    Manpower. Staffing. We had a shift bid and the final deployments looked like someone took a shotgun to a piece of swiss cheese. How can the city even consider shift bid "completed" when they are squads missing supervisors and officers everywhere? Squads now are hitting the street with no one available. Call wait times are ridiculous and the higher ups keep thinking up more random assignments (hey, someone important called and said he thinks a dog is barking at this intersection, have a unit go out there a few times during this week and put the event numbers on the end of shift report. Don't forget to go to mandatory training you already had even though it leaves less people on the street). What about the city's abuse of rescheduling us for every random special event they feel like? The city has the right to reschedule us, but it's against the law for them to play with our schedules to avoid paying overtime. I mean come on, professional wrestling is an "emergency" that requires restricted days off and the city forcing officers on their days off to come in and work without legally compensating them? Hey, it's a capitalist world. If you can't fill off-duty positions then you need to offer more money. If you want to "city sponsor" a hundred events and provide "free" policing, then you have to pay the officers their due. Forcing officers to work them, they telling them that they are changing schedules to not have to pay overtime is a violation of federal law. This has been going on for years and getting worse as time goes by. THATS WHAT THE UNION SHOULD BE WORKING ON.

    Now, feel free to troll away!
    I the only way to make it fair is if the City starts paying us a lot more than water department and sanitation employees, and maybe offers us a way better pension than them in return for the inherent danger of our jobs.

  6. #16
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    Guest
    If we keep letting general employees get a half percent edge on us every three years there's a real danger that our great grandchildren will become cops and only make twice as much as them.

  7. #17
    Unregistered
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Wow, I can't tell if you guys are just jerks or city shills. Is it that unreasonable that an officer asks for more money then the general fund employees? We have dramatically different jobs. I'm not making a million a year as a brain surgeon because I don't have the skills, so that surgeon is getting paid more than me. Yet I am doing more than most of the general fund employees, working off hours and putting my life on the line. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the sanitation guys and the water department. They work hard. But last time I checked they didn't have to put a memorial up for all of their guys who got killed on their jobs. I agree we get a decent wage here, but it isn't like there is a huge line of people yerning for this job (or so personnel keeps telling us). I know it might be shocking, but during a contract negotiation people like to ask for more money, so let him ask for more if he wants. Which brings me to what I think should be the issue here in negotiations.

    Manpower. Staffing. We had a shift bid and the final deployments looked like someone took a shotgun to a piece of swiss cheese. How can the city even consider shift bid "completed" when they are squads missing supervisors and officers everywhere? Squads now are hitting the street with no one available. Call wait times are ridiculous and the higher ups keep thinking up more random assignments (hey, someone important called and said he thinks a dog is barking at this intersection, have a unit go out there a few times during this week and put the event numbers on the end of shift report. Don't forget to go to mandatory training you already had even though it leaves less people on the street). What about the city's abuse of rescheduling us for every random special event they feel like? The city has the right to reschedule us, but it's against the law for them to play with our schedules to avoid paying overtime. I mean come on, professional wrestling is an "emergency" that requires restricted days off and the city forcing officers on their days off to come in and work without legally compensating them? Hey, it's a capitalist world. If you can't fill off-duty positions then you need to offer more money. If you want to "city sponsor" a hundred events and provide "free" policing, then you have to pay the officers their due. Forcing officers to work them, they telling them that they are changing schedules to not have to pay overtime is a violation of federal law. This has been going on for years and getting worse as time goes by. THATS WHAT THE UNION SHOULD BE WORKING ON.

    Now, feel free to troll away!
    STFU and quit if you don’t like it.

  8. #18
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    Guest
    Some of you guys are idiots. Do you realize that the COLA is in addition to your STEP increase? Both combined increases your salary approximately a little over 7% each year. Our salaries increase faster and exponentially compared to an entry level City worker for the position they were HIRED in. Show me a general City employee who was hired at an entry level position within their Department who is making the money we make. Keep in mind that a police officer is hired at an entry level position for the Police Department.

    Those complaining about salary probably have never worked in the private sector or at another agency. Go on the private FB page or call the union with your complaints instead of airing it on on a PUBLIC forum.

  9. #19
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    Just show me where to sign

    I don’t want to hear anymore rejects. Just let me sign and move on. I love my job and even though I don’t make enough to buy everything the city takes good care of me and my pension will be sweet.

  10. #20
    Unregistered
    Guest
    How is it that the ATU gets 3.3.3.5, TFR gets 3.3.4 and we get 3.3.3. Bueller Bueller

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