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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    You are correct....horrible arrest. That being said, he’s a coward. Straight up heard gun shots and hid. He should live in shame for the rest of his miserable, cowardly days.
    I love how people throw the word "coward" around, like it really means something.

    All people react differently to high stress situations. Some people fight and some flee. There is no way to tell which course a person will take until faced with the situation. To attempt to standardize those responses to a type and level desired by an organization we use training. And, we support that with group action. In the military and LE, members are trained to take actions which are often counter intuitive. And, the more counter intuitive an action is, the more training is necessary to instill that action and to maintain it. Also a person operating in a group, which supports certain actions, is much more likely to engage in those actions than a lone person.

    Peterson had a very low stress career. The last half of his career [15 years] was engaged in the duties of an SRO. He was not dealing with street threats and dangerous unexpected happenings, but kid problems in a high income school setting. He was unprepared for a catastrophic incident. And, because his was a lone assignment, he had no immediate support and collapsed. To make things worse, there was no nearby support group to either assist him or to relieve him from command. By the time anyone arrived at thee scene, to relieve him of his command position, the incident was over. Should he have had more intensive and frequent training to ingrain and bolster the proper response to this type of incident? If so, how much? So, how much combat training should an agency engage in, on a regular basis.

    In my lifetime, I have operated with people who froze and others that charged, when faced with an unexpected high stress situation. Both are often dangerous. Being excessively brave [a hero?] can be as dangerous as being excessively careful [coward?]. You have to be real careful when applying labels such as hero and coward.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I love how people throw the word "coward" around, like it really means something.

    All people react differently to high stress situations. Some people fight and some flee. There is no way to tell which course a person will take until faced with the situation. To attempt to standardize those responses to a type and level desired by an organization we use training. And, we support that with group action. In the military and LE, members are trained to take actions which are often counter intuitive. And, the more counter intuitive an action is, the more training is necessary to instill that action and to maintain it. Also a person operating in a group, which supports certain actions, is much more likely to engage in those actions than a lone person.

    Peterson had a very low stress career. The last half of his career [15 years] was engaged in the duties of an SRO. He was not dealing with street threats and dangerous unexpected happenings, but kid problems in a high income school setting. He was unprepared for a catastrophic incident. And, because his was a lone assignment, he had no immediate support and collapsed. To make things worse, there was no nearby support group to either assist him or to relieve him from command. By the time anyone arrived at thee scene, to relieve him of his command position, the incident was over. Should he have had more intensive and frequent training to ingrain and bolster the proper response to this type of incident? If so, how much? So, how much combat training should an agency engage in, on a regular basis.

    In my lifetime, I have operated with people who froze and others that charged, when faced with an unexpected high stress situation. Both are often dangerous. Being excessively brave [a hero?] can be as dangerous as being excessively careful [coward?]. You have to be real careful when applying labels such as hero and coward.
    Can you please use parenthesis rather than brackets?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I love how people throw the word "coward" around, like it really means something.

    All people react differently to high stress situations. Some people fight and some flee. There is no way to tell which course a person will take until faced with the situation. To attempt to standardize those responses to a type and level desired by an organization we use training. And, we support that with group action. In the military and LE, members are trained to take actions which are often counter intuitive. And, the more counter intuitive an action is, the more training is necessary to instill that action and to maintain it. Also a person operating in a group, which supports certain actions, is much more likely to engage in those actions than a lone person.

    Peterson had a very low stress career. The last half of his career [15 years] was engaged in the duties of an SRO. He was not dealing with street threats and dangerous unexpected happenings, but kid problems in a high income school setting. He was unprepared for a catastrophic incident. And, because his was a lone assignment, he had no immediate support and collapsed. To make things worse, there was no nearby support group to either assist him or to relieve him from command. By the time anyone arrived at thee scene, to relieve him of his command position, the incident was over. Should he have had more intensive and frequent training to ingrain and bolster the proper response to this type of incident? If so, how much? So, how much combat training should an agency engage in, on a regular basis.

    In my lifetime, I have operated with people who froze and others that charged, when faced with an unexpected high stress situation. Both are often dangerous. Being excessively brave [a hero?] can be as dangerous as being excessively careful [coward?]. You have to be real careful when applying labels such as hero and coward.
    No truer words were spoken.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I love how people throw the word "coward" around, like it really means something.

    All people react differently to high stress situations. Some people fight and some flee. There is no way to tell which course a person will take until faced with the situation. To attempt to standardize those responses to a type and level desired by an organization we use training. And, we support that with group action. In the military and LE, members are trained to take actions which are often counter intuitive. And, the more counter intuitive an action is, the more training is necessary to instill that action and to maintain it. Also a person operating in a group, which supports certain actions, is much more likely to engage in those actions than a lone person.

    Peterson had a very low stress career. The last half of his career [15 years] was engaged in the duties of an SRO. He was not dealing with street threats and dangerous unexpected happenings, but kid problems in a high income school setting. He was unprepared for a catastrophic incident. And, because his was a lone assignment, he had no immediate support and collapsed. To make things worse, there was no nearby support group to either assist him or to relieve him from command. By the time anyone arrived at thee scene, to relieve him of his command position, the incident was over. Should he have had more intensive and frequent training to ingrain and bolster the proper response to this type of incident? If so, how much? So, how much combat training should an agency engage in, on a regular basis.

    In my lifetime, I have operated with people who froze and others that charged, when faced with an unexpected high stress situation. Both are often dangerous. Being excessively brave [a hero?] can be as dangerous as being excessively careful [coward?]. You have to be real careful when applying labels such as hero and coward.
    A lot of people are saying a lot of things but, No truer words were spoken

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I love how people throw the word "coward" around, like it really means something.

    All people react differently to high stress situations. Some people fight and some flee. There is no way to tell which course a person will take until faced with the situation. To attempt to standardize those responses to a type and level desired by an organization we use training. And, we support that with group action. In the military and LE, members are trained to take actions which are often counter intuitive. And, the more counter intuitive an action is, the more training is necessary to instill that action and to maintain it. Also a person operating in a group, which supports certain actions, is much more likely to engage in those actions than a lone person.

    Peterson had a very low stress career. The last half of his career [15 years] was engaged in the duties of an SRO. He was not dealing with street threats and dangerous unexpected happenings, but kid problems in a high income school setting. He was unprepared for a catastrophic incident. And, because his was a lone assignment, he had no immediate support and collapsed. To make things worse, there was no nearby support group to either assist him or to relieve him from command. By the time anyone arrived at thee scene, to relieve him of his command position, the incident was over. Should he have had more intensive and frequent training to ingrain and bolster the proper response to this type of incident? If so, how much? So, how much combat training should an agency engage in, on a regular basis.

    In my lifetime, I have operated with people who froze and others that charged, when faced with an unexpected high stress situation. Both are often dangerous. Being excessively brave [a hero?] can be as dangerous as being excessively careful [coward?]. You have to be real careful when applying labels such as hero and coward.
    If the incident was "over" then why did Miller, his sergeant, say that he heard shots while he himself was on scene? Or... did he NOT say that? Eason heard shots too. ON camera, he pointed to where the shots were coming from. Why can you hear shots while watching the clip of Stambough putting on his vest if the incident was over? True that it was essentially over in terms of who was shot and the damage done but...they didn't know it was "over" until CCPD apprehended Cruz in Springs. The outcome sure helps the defense when you go over the timeline, but the unknown during the event is what the beef is about. Spinny manipulators combine those two issues but the public is way smarter. Every SRO and RD know that the schools routinely delay their cameras to avoid liability. The outcome and the effort are two separate issues. Until the troops decided that they didn't like GT, it was all about " If this happened in MY district.....
    Obviously the kids could not have been saved in time, but knees should have been hitting their chins going toward where the kids were exiting 1200, some bloody, TELLING law enforcement where the shooter was SEEN. There were no COWARDS. All a result of LOW EXPECTATIONS as a result of LAX policy and practices. Hope that every deputy is reinstated with back pay. 100% administrative FAILURE. Those deputies did what was expected of them everyday. Ignore, deny and it will disappear. By the time they knew it wouldn't just go away, it was too late. God bless the good men and women of the BSO, including those who were unfortunate enough to be in District 17 in 2018.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    If the incident was "over" then why did Miller, his sergeant, say that he heard shots while he himself was on scene? Or... did he NOT say that? Eason heard shots too. ON camera, he pointed to where the shots were coming from. Why can you hear shots while watching the clip of Stambough putting on his vest if the incident was over? True that it was essentially over in terms of who was shot and the damage done but...they didn't know it was "over" until CCPD apprehended Cruz in Springs. The outcome sure helps the defense when you go over the timeline, but the unknown during the event is what the beef is about. Spinny manipulators combine those two issues but the public is way smarter. Every SRO and RD know that the schools routinely delay their cameras to avoid liability. The outcome and the effort are two separate issues. Until the troops decided that they didn't like GT, it was all about " If this happened in MY district.....
    Obviously the kids could not have been saved in time, but knees should have been hitting their chins going toward where the kids were exiting 1200, some bloody, TELLING law enforcement where the shooter was SEEN. There were no COWARDS. All a result of LOW EXPECTATIONS as a result of LAX policy and practices. Hope that every deputy is reinstated with back pay. 100% administrative FAILURE. Those deputies did what was expected of them everyday. Ignore, deny and it will disappear. By the time they knew it wouldn't just go away, it was too late. God bless the good men and women of the BSO, including those who were unfortunate enough to be in District 17 in 2018.
    When Miller arrived, the last few shots were being fired. We know, from investigative reports, that Cruz was trying to shoot through a third floor window, at the time, though this was unknown to the deputies. While he was putting on his vest, the shooting stopped. Now, Miller SHOULD have assumed command, at that time, as he was the ranking officer on the scene. That he did not is his failing. But, until he arrived, and made a determination as to what was transpiring, he was not in a position to issue any effective orders. All of this takes time.

    Now, an active shooter situation stops when the shooting stops. This why it is called an active shooter situation, because the person is actively shooting. The protocol in an active shooter situation is to make a controlled entry, not just run Willie-Nillie onto the scene, move to the sound of the shots and attempt to engage and neutralize the shooter. Once the shots have stopped, two things have happened. The first is that no new casualties are being created. The second thing is that you longer have any idea where a heavily armed person is. The active shooter situation now becomes a armed hostage situation. The protocol changes and the responding LEOs move to a contain locate protocol. Jordan tried to do exactly that and was roundly criticized for it, even by some LE professionals who should have known better. And, whether SROs know if a school is running a delay on their surveillance or not is irrelevant, as it was not SROs who were viewing it. As for RDs knowing about it, that is a real stretch. Nice spin job, though. And, the school administration, which DID know that it was delayed never saw fit to mention this to the deputies on scene.

    Now, you have a bunch of people running from a building, what makes you think that the shooter is not embedded within that group? What does he look like? If he is armed with a pistol and has it under a shirt, how easy is that to see. And, how many of these people actually have any reliable information on the incident? By the time you corral all of them, vet them and find out what they know, a good deal of time will have passed. It might be a good idea if you actually take some time to research actual police procedures, instead of making uninformed statements. I spent several decades hearing LEOs claiming that they would have done something different, in a given situation, even though they had never been in that situation. I have learned to take that with a grain of thought.

    Now, What you are trying to do is to separate the rank and file from Israel, by blaming everything on his policies and practices. However, that is not possible. Why? Because some of the deputies actually violated specific policies and procedures. Why they did this may provide a mitigating circumstance, but they still committed the offense. And, some of those deputies faced disciplinary action. The facts are that Israel did not have policies in place which were any different from most of the LEAs in Florida. The level of training was not deficient when compared to other agencies. Israel gave NO orders to anyone on the scene during the shooting. Responding command personnel took actions which was largely stymied by conditions outside their control, such as the delayed surveillance system. So, what you and the rest of the Get Israel crowd are doing is holding Israel responsible for the deficiencies of a small number of deputies, while, at the same time, trying to exonerate those deputies from responsibility for their actions.

    Paste this in your hat: Israel was hosed by the media, a few "Parkland Parents", people outside Broward County and a Republican governor who almost lost his election to a political unknown. People know that. Whether he should be the Sheriff after the next election is a question which should have been left to the voters of Broward County, not a smaall bunch of people with an agenda.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    When Miller arrived, the last few shots were being fired. We know, from investigative reports, that Cruz was trying to shoot through a third floor window, at the time, though this was unknown to the deputies. While he was putting on his vest, the shooting stopped. Now, Miller SHOULD have assumed command, at that time, as he was the ranking officer on the scene. That he did not is his failing. But, until he arrived, and made a determination as to what was transpiring, he was not in a position to issue any effective orders. All of this takes time.

    Now, an active shooter situation stops when the shooting stops. This why it is called an active shooter situation, because the person is actively shooting. The protocol in an active shooter situation is to make a controlled entry, not just run Willie-Nillie onto the scene, move to the sound of the shots and attempt to engage and neutralize the shooter. Once the shots have stopped, two things have happened. The first is that no new casualties are being created. The second thing is that you longer have any idea where a heavily armed person is. The active shooter situation now becomes a armed hostage situation. The protocol changes and the responding LEOs move to a contain locate protocol. Jordan tried to do exactly that and was roundly criticized for it, even by some LE professionals who should have known better. And, whether SROs know if a school is running a delay on their surveillance or not is irrelevant, as it was not SROs who were viewing it. As for RDs knowing about it, that is a real stretch. Nice spin job, though. And, the school administration, which DID know that it was delayed never saw fit to mention this to the deputies on scene.

    Now, you have a bunch of people running from a building, what makes you think that the shooter is not embedded within that group? What does he look like? If he is armed with a pistol and has it under a shirt, how easy is that to see. And, how many of these people actually have any reliable information on the incident? By the time you corral all of them, vet them and find out what they know, a good deal of time will have passed. It might be a good idea if you actually take some time to research actual police procedures, instead of making uninformed statements. I spent several decades hearing LEOs claiming that they would have done something different, in a given situation, even though they had never been in that situation. I have learned to take that with a grain of thought.

    Now, What you are trying to do is to separate the rank and file from Israel, by blaming everything on his policies and practices. However, that is not possible. Why? Because some of the deputies actually violated specific policies and procedures. Why they did this may provide a mitigating circumstance, but they still committed the offense. And, some of those deputies faced disciplinary action. The facts are that Israel did not have policies in place which were any different from most of the LEAs in Florida. The level of training was not deficient when compared to other agencies. Israel gave NO orders to anyone on the scene during the shooting. Responding command personnel took actions which was largely stymied by conditions outside their control, such as the delayed surveillance system. So, what you and the rest of the Get Israel crowd are doing is holding Israel responsible for the deficiencies of a small number of deputies, while, at the same time, trying to exonerate those deputies from responsibility for their actions.

    Paste this in your hat: Israel was hosed by the media, a few "Parkland Parents", people outside Broward County and a Republican governor who almost lost his election to a political unknown. People know that. Whether he should be the Sheriff after the next election is a question which should have been left to the voters of Broward County, not a smaall bunch of people with an agenda.
    Your campaign is almost 100K behind. You better add more paragraphs. Include some stuff about how you're McDonalds. Your special sauce is drying up.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I love how people throw the word "coward" around, like it really means something.

    All people react differently to high stress situations. Some people fight and some flee. There is no way to tell which course a person will take until faced with the situation. To attempt to standardize those responses to a type and level desired by an organization we use training. And, we support that with group action. In the military and LE, members are trained to take actions which are often counter intuitive. And, the more counter intuitive an action is, the more training is necessary to instill that action and to maintain it. Also a person operating in a group, which supports certain actions, is much more likely to engage in those actions than a lone person.

    Peterson had a very low stress career. The last half of his career [15 years] was engaged in the duties of an SRO. He was not dealing with street threats and dangerous unexpected happenings, but kid problems in a high income school setting. He was unprepared for a catastrophic incident. And, because his was a lone assignment, he had no immediate support and collapsed. To make things worse, there was no nearby support group to either assist him or to relieve him from command. By the time anyone arrived at thee scene, to relieve him of his command position, the incident was over. Should he have had more intensive and frequent training to ingrain and bolster the proper response to this type of incident? If so, how much? So, how much combat training should an agency engage in, on a regular basis.

    In my lifetime, I have operated with people who froze and others that charged, when faced with an unexpected high stress situation. Both are often dangerous. Being excessively brave [a hero?] can be as dangerous as being excessively careful [coward?]. You have to be real careful when applying labels such as hero and coward.
    I’d call him the other word for a cat....but it’d be censored. He knew where it was coming from and that’s exactly what he is. He could have helped the children on the upper floors but he froze....because he’s a scummy coward. Bolling, please stop sucking your friend off....it’s gross

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Your campaign is almost 100K behind. You better add more paragraphs. Include some stuff about how you're McDonalds. Your special sauce is drying up.
    You all still fail to get it. I'm not supporting ANY candidate. While some of the people who I respond to may have a political agenda, I am merely dispelling gross untruths.

    I really do not care who wins the 2020 Sheriff's election. None of them are qualified for the post. And, I can move out of the county at anytime. If I don't like it here, I'll simply move and sell my house to a sucker.

    See, what the last putz did was to try to make a case that everyone, who criticized BSO deputies and Israel, actually LOVE thee deputies. The tune has changed. I also have to deal with people trying to play the race card, with the African-American community. Come on people, make the case for your candidate, or shut the heck up. This Blacks are stupid children who can be bought for a free turkey and the deputies did nothing wrong, it was all the sheriff's fault is both insulting and stupid. Good luck to which ever loser you are backing.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I’d call him the other word for a cat....but it’d be censored. He knew where it was coming from and that’s exactly what he is. He could have helped the children on the upper floors but he froze....because he’s a scummy coward. Bolling, please stop sucking your friend off....it’s gross
    So, when was the last time that you ran into an active shooter scene, without back-up? I always like to hear from a hero.

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