PROMISE + Scott Israel + Runcie + NAACP + Satz + Osgood + more = MURDERERS - Page 6
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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Wrong. But, nice attempt at spin.

    Israel was suspended for the ACTIONS of his personnel, the rank and file. In the case of the MSDHS shooting several were fired and one was eventually charged with a whole slew of totally bogus criminal charges. subordinates do not get disciplined for following P&P. So, these members of the rank and file were labelled as being cowards and failing to follow established policy and procedure. And one was charged with crimes, all but one of which are so legally outlandish that they will be dismissed long before trial. See, Israel was NOT in direct command of thee response to either the MSDHS or FLHIA shootings. So, if Israel was guilty of some kind of misconduct with respect to these incidents, over which he did not have direct control, that means that his deputies engaged in some kind of misconduct. And, if you have been paying any attention to the MSDHS shooting coverage, several deputies were called cowards and incompetents. So, please do not pee down my back and try to tell me it is raining.

    See, what happened, as I have explained until I am blue in the face, was that a lunatic with a rifle walked onto an unsecured HS campus in Parkland, an upscale town in the county, and shot the place up, killing and wounding a bunch of innocent children. The media and the parents immediately began screaming for a person in authority to be blamed for the shooting. It was only a matter of hours before Dep. Peterson was being cast as a coward and responsible for the massacre. Peterson retired, but this was not enough for the mob. AS the drumbeat for a senior political figure to be responsible, the Broward political community cast Israel as the responsible party. To do that, his deputies had to be cast as incompetents at best and cowards at worst. Now, in case you haven't noticed, those deputies were members of the rank and file. As the case unfolded, it became clearer and clearer that nothing that the Sheriff or his deputies did,, or did not do, in any way caused, or even allowed the shooting to occur. But, there still had to be a scapegoat to assuage the public. Along comes that idiot DeSantis. In order to defeat Gillum for Governor, he promised to suspend Israel. When he won, he did just that. But, the reason for the suspension was horribly flimsy. When the Senate began dragging its feet on Israel's hearing, the FDLE charges Dep. Peterson with a mess of legally deficient, trumped up charges to influence the outcome of Israel's hearing. Whether you like or dislike Israel, he was framed, railroaded and hosed for political reasons. And to do that, the people responsible had to discredit the rank and file deputies.

    Israel opponents here make a big deal about election strategies. Well, attempting to use the MSDHS shooting against Israel is a bad strategy. Because it is so clear that Israel was in no way responsible for the shooting and that he was the obvious victim of an unjustified political scapegoating. And, if the Senate does not uphold his suspension, then it becomes disastrous. I suggest people drop it and concentrate on his other shortcomings.

    Oh, by the way. Why have the security procedures in the Florida schools not been increased in any significant manner, in the year and a half since the shooting? They are essentially the same as those in place at MSDHS on the day of the shooting. And, why doesn't anyone seem to care about that? Pick an answer.
    ONE BIG POLITICAL GAME AFTER ANOTHER
    .
    Broward County Public Schools Superintendent Robert Runcie received his own report card Monday.

    Runcie faced harsh criticism earlier this year after several charter schools failed to meet state safety requirements.

    Those situations have since been resolved.

    Most scores were similar to ones given to Runcie last year and remain consistent with scores since 2017.

    As a whole, the Broward County school board scores its superintendent as effective, but needing improvement.

    The only member scoring Runcie as unsatisfactory is new board member Lori Alhadeff, whose daughter was among those killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

    The best evaluation came from Runcie himself, who gave a score of highly effective. He wrote about seamless communication following the Parkland shooting as the district transitioned "from response to recovery and from reactive to proactive."

    That came as news to five of the nine board members, who found that communication is lacking.

    For scholastics, Runcie received generally high marks. He was criticized for a backlog on bond projects to renovate older schools.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    ONE BIG POLITICAL GAME AFTER ANOTHER
    .
    Broward County Public Schools Superintendent Robert Runcie received his own report card Monday.

    Runcie faced harsh criticism earlier this year after several charter schools failed to meet state safety requirements.

    Those situations have since been resolved.

    Most scores were similar to ones given to Runcie last year and remain consistent with scores since 2017.

    As a whole, the Broward County school board scores its superintendent as effective, but needing improvement.

    The only member scoring Runcie as unsatisfactory is new board member Lori Alhadeff, whose daughter was among those killed at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

    The best evaluation came from Runcie himself, who gave a score of highly effective. He wrote about seamless communication following the Parkland shooting as the district transitioned "from response to recovery and from reactive to proactive."

    That came as news to five of the nine board members, who found that communication is lacking.

    For scholastics, Runcie received generally high marks. He was criticized for a backlog on bond projects to renovate older schools.
    Between the Parkland shooting, people to include students, books, shirts, bracelets and interviews shamefully its just about political votes and money.
    Other schools and places that have been through similar events never received any sort of attention Or even showed to care.
    Wrongfully people have been fired, suspected or let go of their duties only for a, “You see we did something.”
    Unfortunately we can’t stop this behavior and it will continue to move forward. Florida is a laughing stock for what the abuse of power from the governor himself.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Between the Parkland shooting, people to include students, books, shirts, bracelets and interviews shamefully its just about political votes and money.
    Other schools and places that have been through similar events never received any sort of attention Or even showed to care.
    Wrongfully people have been fired, suspected or let go of their duties only for a, “You see we did something.”
    Unfortunately we can’t stop this behavior and it will continue to move forward. Florida is a laughing stock for what the abuse of power from the governor himself.
    Actually, SRO's in other schools around the country have taken out the school shooters in some cases. There were civilian heroes in other shootings since, as well, so a lot has changed... We are the laughing stock of the US because of the bad leadership in our schools and law enforcement. Any law enforcement agency whose leader states " We are NOT a law enforcement agency" is an embarrassment. Bad Sheriff, bad school superintendent, bad school board and some very bad left wing parents with disillusioned kids marching around like brainwashed idiots. Broward... pretty embarrassing.
    DeSantis did many things for political gain. So did Israel. Not all of his moves were "fair" either. Had the Republican party been the winning team in 2016, he would have been on it.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Wrong. But, nice attempt at spin.

    Israel was suspended for the ACTIONS of his personnel, the rank and file. In the case of the MSDHS shooting several were fired and one was eventually charged with a whole slew of totally bogus criminal charges. subordinates do not get disciplined for following P&P. So, these members of the rank and file were labelled as being cowards and failing to follow established policy and procedure. And one was charged with crimes, all but one of which are so legally outlandish that they will be dismissed long before trial. See, Israel was NOT in direct command of thee response to either the MSDHS or FLHIA shootings. So, if Israel was guilty of some kind of misconduct with respect to these incidents, over which he did not have direct control, that means that his deputies engaged in some kind of misconduct. And, if you have been paying any attention to the MSDHS shooting coverage, several deputies were called cowards and incompetents. So, please do not pee down my back and try to tell me it is raining.

    See, what happened, as I have explained until I am blue in the face, was that a lunatic with a rifle walked onto an unsecured HS campus in Parkland, an upscale town in the county, and shot the place up, killing and wounding a bunch of innocent children. The media and the parents immediately began screaming for a person in authority to be blamed for the shooting. It was only a matter of hours before Dep. Peterson was being cast as a coward and responsible for the massacre. Peterson retired, but this was not enough for the mob. AS the drumbeat for a senior political figure to be responsible, the Broward political community cast Israel as the responsible party. To do that, his deputies had to be cast as incompetents at best and cowards at worst. Now, in case you haven't noticed, those deputies were members of the rank and file. As the case unfolded, it became clearer and clearer that nothing that the Sheriff or his deputies did,, or did not do, in any way caused, or even allowed the shooting to occur. But, there still had to be a scapegoat to assuage the public. Along comes that idiot DeSantis. In order to defeat Gillum for Governor, he promised to suspend Israel. When he won, he did just that. But, the reason for the suspension was horribly flimsy. When the Senate began dragging its feet on Israel's hearing, the FDLE charges Dep. Peterson with a mess of legally deficient, trumped up charges to influence the outcome of Israel's hearing. Whether you like or dislike Israel, he was framed, railroaded and hosed for political reasons. And to do that, the people responsible had to discredit the rank and file deputies.

    Israel opponents here make a big deal about election strategies. Well, attempting to use the MSDHS shooting against Israel is a bad strategy. Because it is so clear that Israel was in no way responsible for the shooting and that he was the obvious victim of an unjustified political scapegoating. And, if the Senate does not uphold his suspension, then it becomes disastrous. I suggest people drop it and concentrate on his other shortcomings.

    Oh, by the way. Why have the security procedures in the Florida schools not been increased in any significant manner, in the year and a half since the shooting? They are essentially the same as those in place at MSDHS on the day of the shooting. And, why doesn't anyone seem to care about that? Pick an answer.
    Suspended for the ACTIONS. That is correct. Had he been a competent leader, he would've had a competent and well placed Captain, who would have supervised a competent Lieutenant, who would have supervised a competent Sergeant who would have relieved Peterson at MSD when he came unglued.
    Instead, this old overweight, washed up, clueless panic attack deputy was out there on his own. INCOMPREHENSIBLE. It wouldn't have saved the kids, but that wasn't known during the incident. Total command fiasco, just like the parking garage chaos followed the airport incident. DeSantis did the right thing.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Wrong. But, nice attempt at spin.

    Israel was suspended for the ACTIONS of his personnel, the rank and file. In the case of the MSDHS shooting several were fired and one was eventually charged with a whole slew of totally bogus criminal charges. subordinates do not get disciplined for following P&P. So, these members of the rank and file were labelled as being cowards and failing to follow established policy and procedure. And one was charged with crimes, all but one of which are so legally outlandish that they will be dismissed long before trial. See, Israel was NOT in direct command of thee response to either the MSDHS or FLHIA shootings. So, if Israel was guilty of some kind of misconduct with respect to these incidents, over which he did not have direct control, that means that his deputies engaged in some kind of misconduct. And, if you have been paying any attention to the MSDHS shooting coverage, several deputies were called cowards and incompetents. So, please do not pee down my back and try to tell me it is raining.

    See, what happened, as I have explained until I am blue in the face, was that a lunatic with a rifle walked onto an unsecured HS campus in Parkland, an upscale town in the county, and shot the place up, killing and wounding a bunch of innocent children. The media and the parents immediately began screaming for a person in authority to be blamed for the shooting. It was only a matter of hours before Dep. Peterson was being cast as a coward and responsible for the massacre. Peterson retired, but this was not enough for the mob. AS the drumbeat for a senior political figure to be responsible, the Broward political community cast Israel as the responsible party. To do that, his deputies had to be cast as incompetents at best and cowards at worst. Now, in case you haven't noticed, those deputies were members of the rank and file. As the case unfolded, it became clearer and clearer that nothing that the Sheriff or his deputies did,, or did not do, in any way caused, or even allowed the shooting to occur. But, there still had to be a scapegoat to assuage the public. Along comes that idiot DeSantis. In order to defeat Gillum for Governor, he promised to suspend Israel. When he won, he did just that. But, the reason for the suspension was horribly flimsy. When the Senate began dragging its feet on Israel's hearing, the FDLE charges Dep. Peterson with a mess of legally deficient, trumped up charges to influence the outcome of Israel's hearing. Whether you like or dislike Israel, he was framed, railroaded and hosed for political reasons. And to do that, the people responsible had to discredit the rank and file deputies.

    Israel opponents here make a big deal about election strategies. Well, attempting to use the MSDHS shooting against Israel is a bad strategy. Because it is so clear that Israel was in no way responsible for the shooting and that he was the obvious victim of an unjustified political scapegoating. And, if the Senate does not uphold his suspension, then it becomes disastrous. I suggest people drop it and concentrate on his other shortcomings.

    Oh, by the way. Why have the security procedures in the Florida schools not been increased in any significant manner, in the year and a half since the shooting? They are essentially the same as those in place at MSDHS on the day of the shooting. And, why doesn't anyone seem to care about that? Pick an answer.
    I never hear anyone discrediting the deputies. That first week or two they did until they found out about the position that the deputies had been put in with juvenile arrests. Everyone knows it wasn't the deputies who made policy. They had no say. Israel and the rank and file are not even close to being in the same boat. If you haven't noticed, the agency kept right on rolling along without his name on the door. BSO doesn't need Israel or Tony.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Suspended for the ACTIONS. That is correct. Had he been a competent leader, he would've had a competent and well placed Captain, who would have supervised a competent Lieutenant, who would have supervised a competent Sergeant who would have relieved Peterson at MSD when he came unglued.
    Instead, this old overweight, washed up, clueless panic attack deputy was out there on his own. INCOMPREHENSIBLE. It wouldn't have saved the kids, but that wasn't known during the incident. Total command fiasco, just like the parking garage chaos followed the airport incident. DeSantis did the right thing.
    Very true post, They say the sh*t rolls down hill and you are correct from the Captain on down was sh*t and they all froze and did nothing that day. They all should have left in disgrace.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Wrong. But, nice attempt at spin.

    Israel was suspended for the ACTIONS of his personnel, the rank and file. In the case of the MSDHS shooting several were fired and one was eventually charged with a whole slew of totally bogus criminal charges. subordinates do not get disciplined for following P&P. So, these members of the rank and file were labelled as being cowards and failing to follow established policy and procedure. And one was charged with crimes, all but one of which are so legally outlandish that they will be dismissed long before trial. See, Israel was NOT in direct command of thee response to either the MSDHS or FLHIA shootings. So, if Israel was guilty of some kind of misconduct with respect to these incidents, over which he did not have direct control, that means that his deputies engaged in some kind of misconduct. And, if you have been paying any attention to the MSDHS shooting coverage, several deputies were called cowards and incompetents. So, please do not pee down my back and try to tell me it is raining.

    See, what happened, as I have explained until I am blue in the face, was that a lunatic with a rifle walked onto an unsecured HS campus in Parkland, an upscale town in the county, and shot the place up, killing and wounding a bunch of innocent children. The media and the parents immediately began screaming for a person in authority to be blamed for the shooting. It was only a matter of hours before Dep. Peterson was being cast as a coward and responsible for the massacre. Peterson retired, but this was not enough for the mob. AS the drumbeat for a senior political figure to be responsible, the Broward political community cast Israel as the responsible party. To do that, his deputies had to be cast as incompetents at best and cowards at worst. Now, in case you haven't noticed, those deputies were members of the rank and file. As the case unfolded, it became clearer and clearer that nothing that the Sheriff or his deputies did,, or did not do, in any way caused, or even allowed the shooting to occur. But, there still had to be a scapegoat to assuage the public. Along comes that idiot DeSantis. In order to defeat Gillum for Governor, he promised to suspend Israel. When he won, he did just that. But, the reason for the suspension was horribly flimsy. When the Senate began dragging its feet on Israel's hearing, the FDLE charges Dep. Peterson with a mess of legally deficient, trumped up charges to influence the outcome of Israel's hearing. Whether you like or dislike Israel, he was framed, railroaded and hosed for political reasons. And to do that, the people responsible had to discredit the rank and file deputies.

    Israel opponents here make a big deal about election strategies. Well, attempting to use the MSDHS shooting against Israel is a bad strategy. Because it is so clear that Israel was in no way responsible for the shooting and that he was the obvious victim of an unjustified political scapegoating. And, if the Senate does not uphold his suspension, then it becomes disastrous. I suggest people drop it and concentrate on his other shortcomings.

    Oh, by the way. Why have the security procedures in the Florida schools not been increased in any significant manner, in the year and a half since the shooting? They are essentially the same as those in place at MSDHS on the day of the shooting. And, why doesn't anyone seem to care about that? Pick an answer.
    MSD...Let's see:
    Double number of cameras
    There is a booth at the entrance that is manned with security.
    There's a single point of entryAll students have ID
    ****The gates are kept locked ON SCHEDULE and not opened early
    *****The SRD's are visible and not hiding in an office
    The bathrooms are no longer locked
    Each classroom has an indicated safer space
    *******Most importantly, if there's a call, the district (one block away) will haul azz to get there and will go in , rather than spend the rest of their lives being called a "coward"
    MINDSET is about 80% of the resolution. A lot has changed.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Suspended for the ACTIONS. That is correct. Had he been a competent leader, he would've had a competent and well placed Captain, who would have supervised a competent Lieutenant, who would have supervised a competent Sergeant who would have relieved Peterson at MSD when he came unglued.
    Instead, this old overweight, washed up, clueless panic attack deputy was out there on his own. INCOMPREHENSIBLE. It wouldn't have saved the kids, but that wasn't known during the incident. Total command fiasco, just like the parking garage chaos followed the airport incident. DeSantis did the right thing.
    People really have to read and study this, especially with relation to the timeline of the incident: https://projects.sun-sentinel.com/20...t=oft12aH-1la1. It puts the shooting into perspective.

    The entire shooting incident, from first shot to Cruz leaving the campus, was 6 1/2 minutes. Now having been involved in low info incidents, such as this, I challenge anyone to analyze the situation, direct unknown resources to positions at a large scene and effectively handle the situation effectively. There is a certain reflexive reaction time involved. In this case, the BSO was roughly two minutes behind the curve to begin with. It took the 1st off-campus deputy nearly 3 minutes to reach the school, after Cruz began firing and a full minute after Peterson calls in the shots fired call. And, additional deputies do not arrive for another 1 1/2 minutes.

    Now, we come to the command breakdown. There was a Sergeant on scene more-or-less, but he neglected to report that fact and did not assume command. This left Peterson as the ranking officer known to be on on scene. Also, none of the other deputies assumed command or provided reliable information concerning the incident. In fact, there were conflicting locations for the shooter; one in bldg 12 and one one the football field. So, an off-scene commander would be hard pressed to effectively command units on the scene, even after being brought up to speed on the rapidly changing situation. Then, to top-off the criticism of the Captain, she was criticized for ordering a perimeter be set up. This was the correct tactical response, considering that the location of the shooter ws unknown and the shooting had stopped, when the order was given. Tactics change when there is no longer an active shooter. The response goes from search and destroy to contain and locate.

    So, let's say you are the District Commander or the lieutenant. You might be in a meeting, maybe at the main headquarters or possibly at lunch. So, for several minutes after the incident begins, you have no idea that anything is happening. Once you get the initial report, you still have limited knowledge as to exactly what is happening, where it is happening, what units you have available to deploy and where they should be deployed for maximum effectiveness. The management of the scene for the first few minutes depends upon the units on the scene. And, how they perform depends upon their training, experience and personality. Remember, little active shooter training is done, because active shooter situations, while heavily publicized, are extremely rare, And, training for them almost always involves a unit response of from two to four officers. I know of no agency which trains for solo entries against an active shooter. So, these situations often devolve into Chinese fire drill before competent command arrives.



    The shooting response at FLHIA was a problem for much the same reasons. There were reports of shootings or shooters from multiple locations at the airport. Some of these were civilian sourced and some were LE sourced. These reports had to be investigated. The problem with the airport was that non-combatants had to be evacuated from an unknown threat through security areas. These areas had to then be searched for people who were not allowed to be in them, as well as weapons, before operations could be resumed. The forces responsible for these searches were the same deputies responsible for controlling the scene and the evacuees. All of this takes time. Now, here comes the command breakdown in this incident. The deputies, trying to be helpful, were overloading the radio system, which increased communication problems. At the airport, deputies operate singly. They do not operate as part of a small unit.

    Now, as you point out, no matter what actions the BSO personnel had taken, there would still have been a minimum of 11 dead and 14 injured, that on the 1st floor alone. And, if Peterson had run in immediately, he might not have saved anyone on the 3rd floor either, if he survived the entry against an unknown number of shooters, in unknown locations. Also, given the BSO radio problems inside the building, which Peterson may or may not have been aware of, entry would have eliminated on-scene control.

    The Guv HAD to base his justification for suspension on the after incident response, as there was no real problem with the tactical response, at a command level. And, the responses were more the norm in these types of situations than the exception. In hindsight, could the response of the deputies, been better? Yes. But, that can be said of almost any rapid response by individual personnel not trained and practiced as a unit. What was completely ignored was that neither the Sheriff, nor his deputies, had any responsibility for the security of the campus. That was the responsibility of the BCSB. It failed to secure the campus against a man with a gun and once the shooter gains entry to the facility, people are going to be injured and killed. And, that is just exactly what happened.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Very true post, They say the sh*t rolls down hill and you are correct from the Captain on down was sh*t and they all froze and did nothing that day. They all should have left in disgrace.
    You do realize that there were 11 dead and 14 wounded, before Dep. Peterson even knew there was a shooting in progress, right? I mean By the time the other deputies had reached the scene, Cruz had finished shooting people and was just shooting a third floor window. You also realize that once the shooting stopped, the tactical response changed from search and neutralize to contain and clear the facility. There has been an immense amount of misinformation on the MSDHS shooting, much of it driven by emotion. The facts are that the BCSB failed to harden the school to repel an attack by an armed individual. Its employees, upon seeing Cruz, who was known to them and who was carrying a bag, which was readily identifiable as a rifle case, failed to notify the office on the radios that they carried. That no BSO personnel knew that Cruz was on campus until the shots were fired. And, that Cruz completed his shooting and was leaving the campus within 6.5 minutes of the first shot as the third deputy arrived on scene. So, 11 people were dead and 14 wounded before the BSO even knew there was a problem. And, the rest were committed before sufficient LE strength had arrived to storm the building. There was also the little matter of conflicting information on where the shooting was occurring.

    Since that time the State Legislature has put "new" security standards in place for schools in Florida. Know what they are? Exactly what was in place at MSDHS on the day of the shooting. That's right, nothing has been done to guard against this type of heinous attack. Neither the BCSB, the State Legislature, the current Sheriff, the teachers or the parents of the children in the school system have done anything to make the schools safer from this type of attack. So, if everyone is confident that another mass school shooting will not occur, even though no significant increases in security have been enacted, that is fine, But who are they going to blame the next time it happens?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I never hear anyone discrediting the deputies. That first week or two they did until they found out about the position that the deputies had been put in with juvenile arrests. Everyone knows it wasn't the deputies who made policy. They had no say. Israel and the rank and file are not even close to being in the same boat. If you haven't noticed, the agency kept right on rolling along without his name on the door. BSO doesn't need Israel or Tony.
    The entire blame was initially placed on rank and file deputies. One was forced to retire and several have been fired. And, actually the deputies did have a say in what they did, at the time of the shooting, as the policy was "may" not "will". So the deputies could have gone in, if the chose. When the clamor for a senior politician be held accountable continued, then the attacks turned to Israel, based upon perceived short-comings of his deputies, began in earnest. So, thee case against Israel depends entirely upon the perception that the deputies involved were either incompetent, cowards or stupid. So, guess what? People have to include the rank and file deputies in th same boat as the Sheriff.

    The Sheriff's Office has survived a sheriff who was only a place holder, because he would have much rather been a judge. It survived a Sheriff who was a nightmare for his subordinates. It survived a former city police chief who tried to destroy the office, then adopted almost all of his predecessor's programs. It survived a Sheriff who almost destroyed the agency with a horrible program called PpwerTrac, before he was indicted and convicted of federal mail fraud and income tax evasion. It survived a good administrator who was woefully lacking in the political skills needed to run the office. And, it survived Sheriff Israel. But, all of these deficient sheriffs left the Office weaker and less effective. So, the question is, how bad will the next sheriff be? We'll see.

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