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  1. #11

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    What you DON"T know, nor did the book reveal, that what is on paper at Westglades is NOT what transpired. The testimony of that teacher is missing a few details. It's VERY SIGNIFICANT because it explains what brought Cruz to that point. Public scapegoating didn't take down Sheriff Israel, the long term actions of Vesey did. The final two nails were put in SI's proverbial political coffin by Jake Tapper and Judy Stern. Had Sheriff investigated what had been going on at that one school, rather than get in a pissing contest with Loesch, he's still be Sheriff today because the entire community would have been behind the effort. BSPS district #4 and BSO district #17 command were "rogue" to say the least. All of it could have been contained to one city.
    The point is that the incidents at Westglades happened 5 years BEFORE the shooting at MSDHS. It did not have any direct causative effect on the shooting. The point is that there was no way to incarcerate Cruz for life or execute him. There was no way to institutionalize him for life, either. There was no way to keep him from obtaining a firearm, or manufacture an explosive or incendiary device. There was no legal way to stop him, other than having efficient entry controls and armed response to an armed intrusion in place at the school. Could Cruz have been helped if the systems had strongly intervened in his life? Maybe. But, it was hardly guaranteed. The nails in Israel's coffin came when the media began to point fingers at the BCSB, the other countywide elected politicians and many municipal politicians. Their political careers were on the line. He was a rather unlikable guy. And, the local media and political machine began painting the shooting as the fault of the BSO and, therefor, Israel. They wanted a scapegoat. And, this was not restricted to Broward politicians, but included the statewide Republican political machine as well. It was better to sacrifice an unlikable sheriff than to lose several office holders. Then DeSantis, in a dead heat with Gillum, makes the suspension of Israel a political promise to gain votes. When he is elected, he almost immediately suspends Israel, though he bases it almost entirely on the post shooting actions at MSDHS and the FLHIA, Though the BSO was in no way responsible for either shooting incident. Now, everyone breaths a sigh of relief. It was all the DShriff's fault. he is gone. We are all safe now. Even though the potential for a mass school shooting has not declined in the least. Understand why Israel was suspended?

    And, the attempt to limit the Promise program to BCSB Dist 4 and BSO Dist 17 is ludicrous. The Promise program was a county wide program and it involved the entire LE community as well as the criminal justice system ans almost ll of the politicians in the county. Israel was not even as responsible for the MSDHS shooting as the BCSB and no more so than any other politicians who signed in to the program. Yet, he was the only elected official to be suspended. So, neither Israel, the BCSB, nor any portion of their agencies, went rogue. Sorry. There might be a number of very good reasons not to vote for Scott Israel, but there was no legitimate reason to suspend him for either shooting.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Promise program was created to alleviate and prevent the [Disproportionate number of Black arrest] that was the buzz word... spend a week or a day in most public schools and witness the ridiculous disrespect and nonsense that goes on...oh yes disproportionate....😃
    I agree whole-heartedly agree that the Promise program was stupid and founded on the misconception that the discipline in most school systems, including the BCPS, was racially disproportionate. However, the Promise program had NOTHING to do with Cruz shooting up MSDHS. In the first place, Cruz had been expelled from MSDHS and was still expelled on the day of the shooting. As all of Cruz's potential criminal violations were either not of the type that would have prohibited Cruz from passing a background check, or were juvenile violations which would not have showed up in a NISC check None of the reported violations would have incarcerated him for life or resulted in lifetime institutionalization. Even the MSDHS shooting commission stated that the Promise program did not have any effect on the MSDHS shooting.

    Do we need greater discipline in our schools? Yes. Will that stop a lone wolf lunatic from walking onto one of our many unsecured schools and shooting the place up or burning it down or blowing it up? Not too likely. Sandy Hook ELEMENTARY School was not shot up by a disgruntled student, after all.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    The point is that the incidents at Westglades happened 5 years BEFORE the shooting at MSDHS. It did not have any direct causative effect on the shooting. The point is that there was no way to incarcerate Cruz for life or execute him. There was no way to institutionalize him for life, either. There was no way to keep him from obtaining a firearm, or manufacture an explosive or incendiary device. There was no legal way to stop him, other than having efficient entry controls and armed response to an armed intrusion in place at the school. Could Cruz have been helped if the systems had strongly intervened in his life? Maybe. But, it was hardly guaranteed. The nails in Israel's coffin came when the media began to point fingers at the BCSB, the other countywide elected politicians and many municipal politicians. Their political careers were on the line. He was a rather unlikable guy. And, the local media and political machine began painting the shooting as the fault of the BSO and, therefor, Israel. They wanted a scapegoat. And, this was not restricted to Broward politicians, but included the statewide Republican political machine as well. It was better to sacrifice an unlikable sheriff than to lose several office holders. Then DeSantis, in a dead heat with Gillum, makes the suspension of Israel a political promise to gain votes. When he is elected, he almost immediately suspends Israel, though he bases it almost entirely on the post shooting actions at MSDHS and the FLHIA, Though the BSO was in no way responsible for either shooting incident. Now, everyone breaths a sigh of relief. It was all the DShriff's fault. he is gone. We are all safe now. Even though the potential for a mass school shooting has not declined in the least. Understand why Israel was suspended?

    And, the attempt to limit the Promise program to BCSB Dist 4 and BSO Dist 17 is ludicrous. The Promise program was a county wide program and it involved the entire LE community as well as the criminal justice system ans almost ll of the politicians in the county. Israel was not even as responsible for the MSDHS shooting as the BCSB and no more so than any other politicians who signed in to the program. Yet, he was the only elected official to be suspended. So, neither Israel, the BCSB, nor any portion of their agencies, went rogue. Sorry. There might be a number of very good reasons not to vote for Scott Israel, but there was no legitimate reason to suspend him for either shooting.
    If you asked ANYONE affected by MSD, if they had to choose between Israel or Runcie to be at fault, it would have been RUNCIE. Whether Israel should or should not have been suspended is less significant now because he doesn't have the sympathy of the public. The perception is that he is an ally of Runcie because he signed on and stuck by him and continues to. Perception matters in an election because when you lose an election due to lack of PUBLIC TRUST all of the "no fair" declarations the next day are pointless. A fair way to resolve this is to pay SI his full salary through 2020 and have him agree to move on to a county that embraces the pandering and exploitation of blacks and elderly residents for the purpose of obtaining votes and continuing the practice of changing law enforcement to professional observers of crime who are under no obligation to protect the public if they choose not to. California (the land of fruits and nuts)would be ideal; swimming pools, movie stars, lots of golf.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    I agree whole-heartedly agree that the Promise program was stupid and founded on the misconception that the discipline in most school systems, including the BCPS, was racially disproportionate. However, the Promise program had NOTHING to do with Cruz shooting up MSDHS. In the first place, Cruz had been expelled from MSDHS and was still expelled on the day of the shooting. As all of Cruz's potential criminal violations were either not of the type that would have prohibited Cruz from passing a background check, or were juvenile violations which would not have showed up in a NISC check None of the reported violations would have incarcerated him for life or resulted in lifetime institutionalization. Even the MSDHS shooting commission stated that the Promise program did not have any effect on the MSDHS shooting.

    Do we need greater discipline in our schools? Yes. Will that stop a lone wolf lunatic from walking onto one of our many unsecured schools and shooting the place up or burning it down or blowing it up? Not too likely. Sandy Hook ELEMENTARY School was not shot up by a disgruntled student, after all.
    Adam Lanza: Psychiatric diagnosis:

    Undiagnosed, Untreated and Unmedicated delusional schizophrenia.

    Guns are not the issue. schizophrenia has ZERO symptoms when treated with medication. Fixing it would be accepting responsibility to see that MENTALLY ILL individuals are diagnosed, treated, and kept isolated from society if they are a known danger. Law enforcement cannot take on this task; but it needs to be done.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    If you asked ANYONE affected by MSD, if they had to choose between Israel or Runcie to be at fault, it would have been RUNCIE. Whether Israel should or should not have been suspended is less significant now because he doesn't have the sympathy of the public. The perception is that he is an ally of Runcie because he signed on and stuck by him and continues to. Perception matters in an election because when you lose an election due to lack of PUBLIC TRUST all of the "no fair" declarations the next day are pointless. A fair way to resolve this is to pay SI his full salary through 2020 and have him agree to move on to a county that embraces the pandering and exploitation of blacks and elderly residents for the purpose of obtaining votes and continuing the practice of changing law enforcement to professional observers of crime who are under no obligation to protect the public if they choose not to. California (the land of fruits and nuts)would be ideal; swimming pools, movie stars, lots of golf.
    Israel has no fault at all in this. Start with the parenting, people who permitted this thing to carry on like the school board. So many people knew this thing and his behavior but neglected to do nothing. Blame FBI who neglected to do nothing. This is who you blame. Don’t do the typical political bs and say Israel did it. He was t even there.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    If you asked ANYONE affected by MSD, if they had to choose between Israel or Runcie to be at fault, it would have been RUNCIE. Whether Israel should or should not have been suspended is less significant now because he doesn't have the sympathy of the public. The perception is that he is an ally of Runcie because he signed on and stuck by him and continues to. Perception matters in an election because when you lose an election due to lack of PUBLIC TRUST all of the "no fair" declarations the next day are pointless. A fair way to resolve this is to pay SI his full salary through 2020 and have him agree to move on to a county that embraces the pandering and exploitation of blacks and elderly residents for the purpose of obtaining votes and continuing the practice of changing law enforcement to professional observers of crime who are under no obligation to protect the public if they choose not to. California (the land of fruits and nuts)would be ideal; swimming pools, movie stars, lots of golf.
    You are missing the whole point here, becuse you are still trying to justify blaming the MSDHS shooting on someone in authority. The problem is that NO ONE in authority was to blame for the shooting. There was no way to stop a mass school shooting Broward County unless the school system spent an incredible amount of money hardening the schools to prevent one. And, because the chances of any particular school system, let alone any particular school, suffering such an attack are statistically insignificant, NO school system is willing to spend the money. Florida, including Broward County has done almost nothing to increase school security. The minimum standards for school security under the MSDSA are almost exactly the same as the security in placed at MDSHS on the day of the shooting. Set it? Because of the fact that the media and some parents were pointing the finger of blame at the BCSB, as well ass all the other politicians who signed off on the Promise program, a scapegoat needed to be provided to take the heat. Israel was cast in that role and was subsequently suspended and everything went back to the way it was the day of the shooting.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    You are missing the whole point here, becuse you are still trying to justify blaming the MSDHS shooting on someone in authority. The problem is that NO ONE in authority was to blame for the shooting. There was no way to stop a mass school shooting Broward County unless the school system spent an incredible amount of money hardening the schools to prevent one. And, because the chances of any particular school system, let alone any particular school, suffering such an attack are statistically insignificant, NO school system is willing to spend the money. Florida, including Broward County has done almost nothing to increase school security. The minimum standards for school security under the MSDSA are almost exactly the same as the security in placed at MDSHS on the day of the shooting. Set it? Because of the fact that the media and some parents were pointing the finger of blame at the BCSB, as well ass all the other politicians who signed off on the Promise program, a scapegoat needed to be provided to take the heat. Israel was cast in that role and was subsequently suspended and everything went back to the way it was the day of the shooting.
    The schools may be no more safe than they were on the day of the shooting. Another incident may not be preventable. However, the gates are now locked, some of the bad apples have been removed and there are more cameras. That may or may not make a difference; we'll see. Either way, no one gives a hoot about Israel being scapegoated. His public service agency and all that goes with it is past and undesirable practice.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    You are missing the whole point here, becuse you are still trying to justify blaming the MSDHS shooting on someone in authority. The problem is that NO ONE in authority was to blame for the shooting. There was no way to stop a mass school shooting Broward County unless the school system spent an incredible amount of money hardening the schools to prevent one. And, because the chances of any particular school system, let alone any particular school, suffering such an attack are statistically insignificant, NO school system is willing to spend the money. Florida, including Broward County has done almost nothing to increase school security. The minimum standards for school security under the MSDSA are almost exactly the same as the security in placed at MDSHS on the day of the shooting. Set it? Because of the fact that the media and some parents were pointing the finger of blame at the BCSB, as well ass all the other politicians who signed off on the Promise program, a scapegoat needed to be provided to take the heat. Israel was cast in that role and was subsequently suspended and everything went back to the way it was the day of the shooting.
    Sure... that's what you'd say if it were your kid in the cemetery.

    " Gee.. that was unfortunate, but that's life. I guess we should've given the school board more money for security, Our bad. Oh well.. time to move on."

    Had this happened at Dillard, the white cops who showed up after the fact, when it was too late to save any kids would have been accused of taking the long route and BSO would have been expected to compensate screaming histrionic mothers for their "loss'

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Sure... that's what you'd say if it were your kid in the cemetery.

    " Gee.. that was unfortunate, but that's life. I guess we should've given the school board more money for security, Our bad. Oh well.. time to move on."

    Had this happened at Dillard, the white cops who showed up after the fact, when it was too late to save any kids would have been accused of taking the long route and BSO would have been expected to compensate screaming histrionic mothers for their "loss'
    If this happened anywhere else like it has several times this would not been spoken about. Political BS.

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