Active Shooters

[Unregistered]

I'm the original poster. The reason I asked, is since Parkland, my agency has went to the you will go without a backup and no discretion. I guess they are afraid someone might be a coward if he has any discretion. We also trained with the four man diamond. At least that policy allowed for mutual backup, communication wasnt a problem because we were all together, and I think you would be hard pressed to be a coward in front of three other officers ready to go. We also trained with any four leo's....fhp, city, plain clothes. Probably takes a minute or so longer, but it is a system with some coordination and tactics. This get on scene and rush in one by one as you arrive has none of the above advantages. If its a mall or big complex with single officers rushing in every entrance without and coordination etc, I just see chaos. If we dont start pushing back I'm afraid its going to be easier an easier to put our safety secondary to the mission. We get killed doing this job everyday, but until now it hasnt been a policy requirement. If our leaders are not willing to defend a system that provides mutual backup coordination and some tactics versus sheer speed without any of these things, then your safety is not a primary concern. We get killed doing this job everyday, but until now, theres never been a policy that disregards your safety as the highest priority

Now, its go as soon as you get there. Even by yourself. We have training, but it's no guarantee. If the bad guy shoots and kills us. That's one more student that has time to get away. Sad, but a fact of life. We have a better chance of surviving than that student. We are expendable. The students are not.

Stay safe. No, scratch that. Save those kids, but do that as safe as you possibly can!

[Unregistered]

I'm the original poster. The reason I asked, is since Parkland, my agency has went to the you will go without a backup and no discretion. I guess they are afraid someone might be a coward if he has any discretion. We also trained with the four man diamond. At least that policy allowed for mutual backup, communication wasnt a problem because we were all together, and I think you would be hard pressed to be a coward in front of three other officers ready to go. We also trained with any four leo's....fhp, city, plain clothes. Probably takes a minute or so longer, but it is a system with some coordination and tactics. This get on scene and rush in one by one as you arrive has none of the above advantages. If its a mall or big complex with single officers rushing in every entrance without and coordination etc, I just see chaos. If we dont start pushing back I'm afraid its going to be easier an easier to put our safety secondary to the mission. We get killed doing this job everyday, but until now it hasnt been a policy requirement. If our leaders are not willing to defend a system that provides mutual backup coordination and some tactics versus sheer speed without any of these things, then your safety is not a primary concern. We get killed doing this job everyday, but until now, theres never been a policy that disregards your safety as the highest priority

This is a good post and a great topic.

I agree with you. Many of the deputies I work with feel the same way, but would never say anything i fear of being ignored or retaliation.

We now go in alone no matter what. No waiting for even one back up unit. “Seems” to be the best solution when a suspect has a pistol, but not if the suspect has a rifle.

Long ago, we waited for SWAT, but that caused massive issues with the Columbine shootings. SWAT takes too long to arrive in an active shooter situation and time is wasted. I agree that this was the wrong way.

After Columbine, we were trained to go in, but in patrol teams of 3 or 4 officers. With a rifle or two or three. Diamond formation and all that good stuff. That was the best choice. Especially, without question, if the suspect has a rifle. Although there is no cookie cutter answer and quick fix for all the worlds problems and crazy people like the sheep want from us, I feel that this was the most logical balanced method to handle these situations. Especially now that rifles are commonly used by active shooters.

The problem is now we have to go in alone regardless. Even if the suspect has a rifle and we only have a pistol which is a guaranteed death sentence for us. We don't walk around with our rifles slung. Rifles have longer range than pistols and go through our vests. But thats what the news and people want. Makes for good news stories when cops are added to the casualty list. Don't wait for backup units with a rifle to arrive and don't run out to your cruiser to get your rifle. Looks bad on camera. Image and demands from non tactically trained people are priority over logic, tactical experience, and officer safety.. Just run in and become another casualty, and a unit with a rifle will shows up. A lone officer with a pistol vs a suspect with a rifle is a suicide mission and solves nothing. After all, cops die all the time in the movies. We all been desensitized to it right?

Keep in mind that active shooters are mentally ill and our system for dealing with them is truly the fatal flaw. That is where the problem lies. Time to start locking up dangerous crazy people in mental hospitals long term. Not temporarily in intake and evaluation centers.

Its also time to stop using officers as sacrificial lambs because of what some crazy moron did. Its time to bring the focus on the large amount of dangerous mentally ill people that need to be locked up. I bet each of you can name at least two in your zones. It seems that the people, through our news media and social media, feel that when something bad happens, balance is somehow restored as long as an officer or officers, gets killed, hurt, indicted, charged, sued, or at a minimum fired. All while the attention on the suspect fades away. I guess that makes for better news stories.

Saving lives is PRIORITY ONE, but what good are we if we are dead.

This is my god given opinion and I have a right to it.

[Unregistered]

What a pu$$y.

[Unregistered]

What a pu$$y.

Too bad!!!!!!!

[Unregistered]

Sissy a$$ cowardly little wimps.

[Unregistered]

Sissy a$$ cowardly little wimps.

Don't like it? Maybe you should quit!

[Unregistered]

You go super hero's. The rest of us would like to see a balanced approach which gives us the best opportunity to be successful and survive..

[Unregistered]

Now, its go as soon as you get there. Even by yourself. We have training, but it's no guarantee. If the bad guy shoots and kills us. That's one more student that has time to get away. Sad, but a fact of life. We have a better chance of surviving than that student. We are expendable. The students are not.

Stay safe. No, scratch that. Save those kids, but do that as safe as you possibly can!

Not only that, but if we die confronting the shooter(s), (they will have long gun(s)), they will now have another handgun, approx 50 more rounds of ammo, an HCSO radio (with all of our responding deputies locations), and a ballistic vest if they choose... Not to mention, keys to your car, which may or may not have an AR-15 in it..There's definately alot of cons in confronting active shooter(s), by yourself...With that being said, I would go in alone..

[Unregistered]

Not only that, but if we die confronting the shooter(s), (they will have long gun(s)), they will now have another handgun, approx 50 more rounds of ammo, an HCSO radio (with all of our responding deputies locations), and a ballistic vest if they choose... Not to mention, keys to your car, which may or may not have an AR-15 in it..There's definately alot of cons in confronting active shooter(s), by yourself...With that being said, I would go in alone..

Every deputy here can have an agency issued AR if they want one, and had better not leave it in their car.

[Unregistered]

80% of active shooters are somewhere other than schools. Seems like alot of people are conflating working in a profession where we get killed doing this job with arbitrary policy that orders you in, no matter what. This policy has to assume based on past statistics that some of you are going to have to get killed for the better good. This is the trade off to speed, by yourself, without a backup, going up against god only knows. I dont have a problem with those of you that will willingly put yourself in that situation, I have a big problem with it being a policy with no discretion. I have just as big of problem of not maximizing our chances of success and survival, See so many of you keep harping on the kids the kids. I would feel better if it were just for schools and all others four and go, but the policy doesnt make that distinction does it.