The FTO Bailout

[Unregistered]

Try this. Make yourself a schedule of let’s say 40 deputies covering four 12 hour shifts. That’s A Days, B Days, A Nights and B Nights. That gives you ten deputies per shift. Let’s say seven mandatory spots, three for relief. Factor that for 8’a and you still have to cover seven spots with either a relief shift or use rotating shifts. It would still take about 40 deputies. Difference is on 12’s half your work force gets a 10% differential, all get 92 hours of OT per year for working 84 hours per pay period and 12 hours of holiday pay. 8’s has 1/3 at no differential, 1/3 at 5%, 1/3 at 10%. They have no built in overtime and get 8 hours of holiday pay for the same amount of holidays. Same amount of people are required for 12’s that is used for 8’s. They may have shaved 1 or two per shift on 12’s. But 12’s pay us more, cost them the same, possibly a little more, and it affects them in no way. It did create uniform coverage, uniform supervision, and attracted new folks who like every other weekend off. No one from captain up works 12’s. So you think they care if we are on 12’a or 8’s? Nope. It’s more effective and helps us compete with other agencies for hiring. And who cares what the jail hates. Patrol is on 12’s too now so let it go. Geez.

12s require 5% fewer deputies than 8s which saves money. That's how 12s were sold to the sheriff in a period when the budget was tight because the county commission asked for cuts.

You must be either SAB brass or patrol to state "Who cares what the jail hates". The jail is half the agency and what it thinks matters as much as what patrol thinks. 12s at the jail is very different than 12s in patrol. You wouldn't understand unless you worked a direct supervisor pod, locked in with 80 a-holes for 12 hours with a 30 minute break.

As far as newbies, most the ones with families and a life hate 12s That negatively affects recruitment and retention. But the brass only cares what the bean counters report rather than the deputies's families. They are on 8s and could care less so they are universally hated.

[Unregistered]

12s require 5% fewer deputies than 8s which saves money. That's how 12s were sold to the sheriff in a period when the budget was tight because the county commission asked for cuts.

You must be either SAB brass or patrol to state "Who cares what the jail hates". The jail is half the agency and what it thinks matters as much as what patrol thinks. 12s at the jail is very different than 12s in patrol. You wouldn't understand unless you worked a direct supervisor pod, locked in with 80 a-holes for 12 hours with a 30 minute break.

As far as newbies, most the ones with families and a life hate 12s That negatively affects recruitment and retention. But the brass only cares what the bean counters report rather than the deputies's families. They are on 8s and could care less so they are universally hated.

Hahahahaha. Gosh, you’re dumb. I’d you would do the math maybe you would understand 12’s cost what 8’s cost, possibly more. They might have pulled one body off eight shifts. But considering we staff the same sectors and cities I don’t think so.

And I could care less what the jail hates. Why would I care? I don’t work there, never have, never will. And you idiots get the benefit of our collective bargaining without being members (Thank Drunk Uncle Rice). And jailers used to make less than real deputies, Uncle Rice fixed that shit to keep the jail from going for collective bargaining. And I don’t care what it feels like to babysit a pod of 80 assholes, you chose that job, not me.

And 12’s are for the newbies because they botch about never having part of the weekend off. So which is it? Now they botch because they hate 12’s? It’s like the little ***** generation out there. If it were up to me we would be on 5 8’s and new people wouldn’t taste the weekend for five years. But so much for paying any sort of dues anymore. Tahoe’s our of FTO, every other weekend off and moving bonuses. Poor newbies.

[Unregistered]

Hahahahaha. Gosh, you’re dumb. I’d you would do the math maybe you would understand 12’s cost what 8’s cost, possibly more. They might have pulled one body off eight shifts. But considering we staff the same sectors and cities I don’t think so.

And I could care less what the jail hates. Why would I care? I don’t work there, never have, never will. And you idiots get the benefit of our collective bargaining without being members (Thank Drunk Uncle Rice). And jailers used to make less than real deputies, Uncle Rice fixed that shit to keep the jail from going for collective bargaining. And I don’t care what it feels like to babysit a pod of 80 assholes, you chose that job, not me.

And 12’s are for the newbies because they botch about never having part of the weekend off. So which is it? Now they botch because they hate 12’s? It’s like the little ***** generation out there. If it were up to me we would be on 5 8’s and new people wouldn’t taste the weekend for five years. But so much for paying any sort of dues anymore. Tahoe’s our of FTO, every other weekend off and moving bonuses. Poor newbies.

Tell that to the administration who saved a ton of money by going to 12s. The BS that some people wanted 12s was just a cover to support their decision and make it look like they care. 12s cut the budget as the county demanded.

[Unregistered]

Tell that to the administration who saved a ton of money by going to 12s. The BS that some people wanted 12s was just a cover to support their decision and make it look like they care. 12s cut the budget as the county demanded.

Hi moron. You’re wrong. 12’s cost about the same. I know the math is hard for you to do, but it’s true. Let’s keep it simple. Break up 300 people. On 8’s you have three shifts with 10% shift differential for midnights, 5% for evenings and none for days. Then you have 11 paid holidays at 8 hours a day for all 300. Same 300 people on 12’s. Half get a 10% shift differential for nights, half get nothing for days. They get 11 paid holidays at 12 hours a day for all three hundred. And they have 4 hours of overtime built into their schedule. That’s 31,200 hours of overtime built into the 12’s. 8’s has no built in overtime. 8’s gets 26,400 hours of holiday pay per year, 12’s gets 39,600 hours. Which one do you think costs more? In the end they are close enough that the brass doesn’t care. We voted them down in the past. And it was an overwhelming vote for them at last vote. So if you want to point the finger at someone for getting us 12’s point your finger at the 5-10 year deputies. Dumb shit.

[Unregistered]

Hmm. So many ignorant statements, where to start. The Sheriff did not care one way or the other about 12’s. It was put to a vote and he went with the majority on that. Bids are sorted based on seniority. You are allowed to bid for shift and station. That’s the way it has always been and it says so in the contract. However, you can be moved based on Agency needs or if you are a screw up. By custom you are asked where within a shift and station you would like to work unless you are an FTO or in a non-bidding position. I’m not sure what purpose “rotating squads” would serve. Where you work is not a privilege or right. 8’s are no longer an issue so I’m not sure what your point is there. And I’ll bet you the Sheriff won’t “do this” for any reason. If your inability to work in a Squad may cause you to leave, bye! Everyone gets every other weekend off, so that point is stupid as well. So now you complain that you have to work in Squad 1, 2 or 3 for two to three years before you can get into the “easy squad”? You sound like a real go getter. I’m sure you are slick enough to pull off being lazy anywhere you go. As far as costing the agency more, yeah maybe so, too bad FNG. I take home more than twice what you make. And I’m not leaving until I’m good and ready. You say the Sheriff can hire two new deputies for the price of me? I’m worth twice that in experience, training and maturity. New deputies are a roll of the dice more so than ever before. Many of you can’t stick to a career without some side issue causing you to quit, go on a tangent, and call back and say you changed your mind. Many of you still live at home with mommy or daddy (mostly mommy). You take sick leave because you stubbed your thumb drawing your Taser or got a sore wrist from punching someone for the first time in your life. You get half a headache and boom, you’re out. You need EAP when your girlfriend leaves you after two weeks (p.s. she was always screwing other guys all along). You want a new cruiser and transfer before you’re halfway through probation. And your feelings get hurt when anyway talks honestly to you about what a crappy job you are doing. So sit back, strap in and suck it up cupcake. You have 30 years to make it all happen. That’s a long time for a bright and shiny star like you. In 29 years you will be the one some snot nosed kid is calling old and praying that you retire. It goes by faster if you ***** less and do what you enjoy. If that doesn’t suit you then go piss up a rope, become a fire fighter or a Walmart Greeter. Life is too short to be such a miserable little shit. Stay safe Junior!!!! If you don’t, you may accidentally do some real police work. Peace out little fella.

On point! 👍

[Unregistered]

Hi moron. You’re wrong. 12’s cost about the same. I know the math is hard for you to do, but it’s true. Let’s keep it simple. Break up 300 people. On 8’s you have three shifts with 10% shift differential for midnights, 5% for evenings and none for days. Then you have 11 paid holidays at 8 hours a day for all 300. Same 300 people on 12’s. Half get a 10% shift differential for nights, half get nothing for days. They get 11 paid holidays at 12 hours a day for all three hundred. And they have 4 hours of overtime built into their schedule. That’s 31,200 hours of overtime built into the 12’s. 8’s has no built in overtime. 8’s gets 26,400 hours of holiday pay per year, 12’s gets 39,600 hours. Which one do you think costs more? In the end they are close enough that the brass doesn’t care. We voted them down in the past. And it was an overwhelming vote for them at last vote. So if you want to point the finger at someone for getting us 12’s point your finger at the 5-10 year deputies. Dumb shit.

Here's the math without your juvenile commentary: 12s require 84 hour pay periods while 8s require 80 hour pay periods. 4 hours is 5% of 80 hours so 5% fewer deputies are needed with 12s.

5% of 1200 deputies is 60 deputies. Each deputy cost about $140k annually so $140k x 60 = $8,400,000 in savings with 12s.

That's how the agency came up with the budget cuts the county commission wanted. Plus there were a few D&C layoffs who ended up at HCSO. D&C went to 12s first, the savings showed up so patrol went to 12s. Plus some equipment purchases were postponed.

As far as the shift differential, it's a wash because 8s had a 10% differential for mids, 5% differential for evenings and 0% differential for days. With 12s the night shift gets 10% and days gets 0%.

This is why the agency went to 12s - to save money, not because a bunch of single mama's boys wanted the weekends off to whore around bars. But you wouldn't know that unless you were in on the budget discussions.

[Unregistered]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FywSzjRq0e4

[Unregistered]

Here's the math without your juvenile commentary: 12s require 84 hour pay periods while 8s require 80 hour pay periods. 4 hours is 5% of 80 hours so 5% fewer deputies are needed with 12s.

5% of 1200 deputies is 60 deputies. Each deputy cost about $140k annually so $140k x 60 = $8,400,000 in savings with 12s.

That's how the agency came up with the budget cuts the county commission wanted. Plus there were a few D&C layoffs who ended up at HCSO. D&C went to 12s first, the savings showed up so patrol went to 12s. Plus some equipment purchases were postponed.

As far as the shift differential, it's a wash because 8s had a 10% differential for mids, 5% differential for evenings and 0% differential for days. With 12s the night shift gets 10% and days gets 0%.

This is why the agency went to 12s - to save money, not because a bunch of single mama's boys wanted the weekends off to whore around bars. But you wouldn't know that unless you were in on the budget discussions.

It’s actually $100k per Deputy. And your math skills are amazing. So because 4 hours is 5% of 80 and that gives you money saved? Hey moron, those 4 hours are paid at time and a half 26 times a year times about 370 patrol deputies. How did that save money? That’s 38,480 hours of overtime pay moron. And show me one sector that has been cut. It’s the relief factor that was cut, by like one. The whole 12’s mess was pushed by patrol people who cried when they had Tuesday/Wednesday off. Idiot. Try factoring in 12 hours of holiday pay instead of 8. That’s every holiday for every patrol person. Does that cost more or less? Your ignorance is astounding.

[Unregistered]

It’s actually $100k per Deputy. And your math skills are amazing. So because 4 hours is 5% of 80 and that gives you money saved? Hey moron, those 4 hours are paid at time and a half 26 times a year times about 370 patrol deputies. How did that save money? That’s 38,480 hours of overtime pay moron. And show me one sector that has been cut. It’s the relief factor that was cut, by like one. The whole 12’s mess was pushed by patrol people who cried when they had Tuesday/Wednesday off. Idiot. Try factoring in 12 hours of holiday pay instead of 8. That’s every holiday for every patrol person. Does that cost more or less? Your ignorance is astounding.

You obviously failed basic math in school and are unteachable. But I will respond anyway.

First of all the cost per deputy is right out of the current budget but proportionally to the agency budget, the cost per deputy has not changed as far as labor cost goes. A 5% reduction in labor cost was a big savings and continues to be a big savings. It's all about doing the same thing with fewer bodies, which necessitates a bit of mandatory OT. The OT cost is peanuts compared to the overall savings of not paying the health insurance, FRS contribution, equipment, vacation, training, etc of an additional 60 deputies.

You got one thing right about the relief factor being cut, that is the 5% cut in the deputy workforce which I explained, was caused by the 12s and mandatory 4 hours of OT. Doing the same job with less deputies.

The 12s were the idea of the bean counters downtown who got their orders from the county commission to cut the budget. Unless you talked to the budget director and some of the majors you wouldn't know that. First the jail, then patrol in order to save money. The sheriff and his command staff could care less what the deputies want or wish for. Very few people wanted 12s back then so the story that the sheriff gave the deputies what they wanted was a lie, pure BS, a cover story to implement the 12s.

This is the real story of how 12s came about here and at many other agencies. It's was all about saving money by cutting positions.

[Unregistered]

You obviously failed basic math in school and are unteachable. But I will respond anyway.

First of all the cost per deputy is right out of the current budget but proportionally to the agency budget, the cost per deputy has not changed as far as labor cost goes. A 5% reduction in labor cost was a big savings and continues to be a big savings. It's all about doing the same thing with fewer bodies, which necessitates a bit of mandatory OT. The OT cost is peanuts compared to the overall savings of not paying the health insurance, FRS contribution, equipment, vacation, training, etc of an additional 60 deputies.

You got one thing right about the relief factor being cut, that is the 5% cut in the deputy workforce which I explained, was caused by the 12s and mandatory 4 hours of OT. Doing the same job with less deputies.

The 12s were the idea of the bean counters downtown who got their orders from the county commission to cut the budget. Unless you talked to the budget director and some of the majors you wouldn't know that. First the jail, then patrol in order to save money. The sheriff and his command staff could care less what the deputies want or wish for. Very few people wanted 12s back then so the story that the sheriff gave the deputies what they wanted was a lie, pure BS, a cover story to implement the 12s.

This is the real story of how 12s came about here and at many other agencies. It's was all about saving money by cutting positions.

You are kind of an ass. With 12’s we got more covered with maybe 8 less deputies, one per shift. The rest of your math is idiotic. The big draw was so many agencies are on 12’s and so many younger people wanted them. 75% of those of votes, votes yes. So good luck with your theory of bullshit. But that’s what it is. 12’s are more efficient with time and benefit the employee in other ways. Two days off gets you seven days off. More pay for holiday pay. No more self relieving shifts that you needed a cross reference guide to figure it out. But whatever helps you feel good about you Ken.