What is YOUR definition of a Sovereign Citizen? - Page 2
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  1. #11
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    Another related question?

    How can you be a sovereign and a citizen at the same time, as the name implies? Anyone who actually considers themselves sovereign would not identify as a sovereign citizen. If they don't even self identify as a "sovereign citizen" how can they be labeled as such? If they do they are very confused. If they are sovereign, they would each be unique individuals. Using reason, the worst you could believe is that the same percentage of sovereigns are dangerous as the percentage of all the people. So goes it with the police officers that use force to bring you into compliance with what a few other, usually corrupt, people wrote down on paper as "law". No label that men can put on you could or should be used as a diagnosis of your personality.

  2. #12
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    Is there a copy of the list floating around? How many other list is the city keeping? List about a person medical condition aka "use universal precautions" is a direct violation of HIPAA and no government agency is allowed to insinuate a person has a medical condition (AIDS, HEP , or anything for that matter) or keep medical records about any citizen. Time for the ACLU to step in.

  3. #13
    Senior Member LEO Affairs Captain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Is there a copy of the list floating around? How many other list is the city keeping? List about a person medical condition aka "use universal precautions" is a direct violation of HIPAA and no government agency is allowed to insinuate a person has a medical condition (AIDS, HEP , or anything for that matter) or keep medical records about any citizen. Time for the ACLU to step in.
    I currently have NPPD and PGPD Sov Cit Lists. I think the NPPD list is posted on NPCC FB page and anyone interested in PGPD list send email to citywatchnorthportfl@outlook.com and I will send both lists, as well as, other depts as I receive them.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    there seems to be some discussion on NPCC FB page in regards to the NP scoop story about NPPD having a sovereign persons list. Those defending the list seem to think its ok because well the PD would like you to believe its for officers safety, that's a crock. The interim chief has no idea that this list is an infringement on the named persons civil rights. The feds have the right to create lists as defined in the patriot act, international terrorists and domestic terrorists which would include motorcycle gangs, street gangs and sovereign citizens who pose some type of alleged threat.. There has been some flack over the domestic list, but if you need to get thru TSA you will be flagged. Under the patriot act ONLY the FEDS have this power, local municipalities do not. None of these so called sovereign persons named pose any risk to any officer. When we start allowing our local government to make lists we lose our freedoms, any one out there want to be on a list created by and controlled by the NPPD< I hope not.
    Just because other agencies have or are believed to have lists does not make it legal. If your name is on a sovereign list I suggest you find a competent attorney and sue the city and the NPPD. But then again you would not be actually sovereign if you sued because you would be utilizing the government courts. Condoning any type of list created by and in the possession of any government entity is allowing your government to violate your basic civil rights. Whats next the return of McCarthyism????????
    What law would said list be violating? Also what civil/constitutional right specifically?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    What law would said list be violating? Also what civil/constitutional right specifically?
    The key wording below in the FSS is "or other belief system", "or any other identifiable group" "Cultural Group". If an officer stops or searches a person on the "list" based on the fact that they are on the list, he would be violating Florida Law. If he come in to contact with a person on the said list and treats them differently then the average person without any reasonable cause then he has violated the law. That is why it is a bad idea to keep these types of list. If an individual is African American and is on the "list" then you have an even bigger problem, if they are treated differently during a police encounter, when there is no reasonable suspicion or articulated suspicion to believe a crime has been committed. This is all basic shit that cops are supposed to know. The problem with most cops is they forget that they are held and sworn to uphold the constitution for the people, first and foremost. However most feel that their main job is to get a bag of weed off the street by any means necessary.


    Bias-based profiling is the selection of
    individuals for enforcement action based
    solely upon a trait common to a group. This
    includes, but is not limited to, race, ethnic
    background, gender, sexual orientation,
    religion, economic status, age, cultural
    group, physical handicap or any other identi-
    fiable group.

    Biased-based profiling often leads to
    allegations of violations of constitutional
    and/or civil rights. It undermines legitimate
    law enforcement efforts, fosters distrust of
    law enforcement.


    Supreme Court of Florida
    Office of the Marshal
    I.
    PURPOSE
    :
    The purpose of this policy is to unequivocally state that bias-based profiling in
    law enforcement is totally unacceptable, to provide guidelines for officers to avoid
    such occurrences, and to protect officers from unfounded allegations when they
    act within the scope of their authority, policies and procedures, federal law, state
    law, and articulated facts.
    II.
    POLICY
    Bias based profiling or racial profiling in traffic contacts, field contacts,
    searches and seizures, arrests, and in asset seizure and forfeiture efforts is
    strictly prohibited. Sworn officers shall enforce state and federal laws and
    applicable policies and procedures in a responsible and professional manner,
    without regard to race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, gender,
    income status, religion, or "CULTURAL GROUP"
    III.
    AUTHORITY
    ARTICLE V., Section 3 (c) Florida Constitution
    Chapter 25.
    251, Florida Statutes
    Chapter 25.271, Florida Statutes
    Chapter 943, Florida Statutes
    Chapter
    30.15 Florida Statutes
    Chapter 166.0493
    IV.
    DEFINITIONS
    (2.06M
    C) Based Profiling. The selection, detention, interdiction, or other disparate
    treatment of any individual on the basis of their race, color, ethnicity, gender,
    sexual orientation, physical handicap, economic status, age, cultural group,
    religion "or other belief system", "or any other identifiable group".


    Take the list down before we have to pay more money in lawsuits. Not needed in anyway.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    What law would said list be violating? Also what civil/constitutional right specifically?
    it just amazes me that someone who lives in the country would ask this question, refer to your constitutional rights, and your rights under Florida statutes, no one here is going to do your homework for you, lazy don't feel like it call the ACLU and ask them. Read the posts, the Feds have the right under the Patriot act but this dose not extend or trickle down to the state level.

  7. #17
    Unregistered
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    it just amazes me that someone who lives in the country would ask this question, refer to your constitutional rights, and your rights under Florida statutes, no one here is going to do your homework for you, lazy don't feel like it call the ACLU and ask them. Read the posts, the Feds have the right under the Patriot act but this dose not extend or trickle down to the state level.
    Someone specifically said it’s “illegal” and “a violation of civil rights/constitution”. So I asked that person what law and civil right specifically is it a violation of. Please provide what article of the US Constituion and also what FSS please. I don’t think that makes me lazy. I asked the person who said it to let me know. Why so hostile?

  8. #18
    Unregistered
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    The key wording below in the FSS is "or other belief system", "or any other identifiable group" "Cultural Group". If an officer stops or searches a person on the "list" based on the fact that they are on the list, he would be violating Florida Law. If he come in to contact with a person on the said list and treats them differently then the average person without any reasonable cause then he has violated the law. That is why it is a bad idea to keep these types of list. If an individual is African American and is on the "list" then you have an even bigger problem, if they are treated differently during a police encounter, when there is no reasonable suspicion or articulated suspicion to believe a crime has been committed. This is all basic shit that cops are supposed to know. The problem with most cops is they forget that they are held and sworn to uphold the constitution for the people, first and foremost. However most feel that their main job is to get a bag of weed off the street by any means necessary.


    Bias-based profiling is the selection of
    individuals for enforcement action based
    solely upon a trait common to a group. This
    includes, but is not limited to, race, ethnic
    background, gender, sexual orientation,
    religion, economic status, age, cultural
    group, physical handicap or any other identi-
    fiable group.

    Biased-based profiling often leads to
    allegations of violations of constitutional
    and/or civil rights. It undermines legitimate
    law enforcement efforts, fosters distrust of
    law enforcement.


    Supreme Court of Florida
    Office of the Marshal
    I.
    PURPOSE
    :
    The purpose of this policy is to unequivocally state that bias-based profiling in
    law enforcement is totally unacceptable, to provide guidelines for officers to avoid
    such occurrences, and to protect officers from unfounded allegations when they
    act within the scope of their authority, policies and procedures, federal law, state
    law, and articulated facts.
    II.
    POLICY
    Bias based profiling or racial profiling in traffic contacts, field contacts,
    searches and seizures, arrests, and in asset seizure and forfeiture efforts is
    strictly prohibited. Sworn officers shall enforce state and federal laws and
    applicable policies and procedures in a responsible and professional manner,
    without regard to race, ethnicity, national origin, sexual orientation, gender,
    income status, religion, or "CULTURAL GROUP"
    III.
    AUTHORITY
    ARTICLE V., Section 3 (c) Florida Constitution
    Chapter 25.
    251, Florida Statutes
    Chapter 25.271, Florida Statutes
    Chapter 943, Florida Statutes
    Chapter
    30.15 Florida Statutes
    Chapter 166.0493
    IV.
    DEFINITIONS
    (2.06M
    C) Based Profiling. The selection, detention, interdiction, or other disparate
    treatment of any individual on the basis of their race, color, ethnicity, gender,
    sexual orientation, physical handicap, economic status, age, cultural group,
    religion "or other belief system", "or any other identifiable group".


    Take the list down before we have to pay more money in lawsuits. Not needed in anyway.
    That’s an awful lot of IFs. So what your saying is, the list isn’t illegal, just the improper use of a list is? I also don’t understand the purpose of the copy and pasting of a department’s bias based policing policy. So what are your thoughts on the states sex offender registry (list)?

  9. #19
    Unregistered
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    That’s an awful lot of IFs. So what your saying is, the list isn’t illegal, just the improper use of a list is? I also don’t understand the purpose of the copy and pasting of a department’s bias based policing policy. So what are your thoughts on the states sex offender registry (list)?
    Ahhh I see your clever tactics...however you should never confuse a list or database of "convicted" criminals with that of citizens who have committed no crime and who have not been convicted in a court of law. FCIC/NCIC provides information and Criminal History about people who have been convicted and found guilty of crimes or are on parole or probation or wanted in connection with crime, therefore eliminating a redundant NPPD list. The NPPD list contains information about a group of citizens who have done nothing wrong other than exercise the right to assemble, worship, and speak freely. That is America. The constitution allows us all freedom from unreasonable actions i.e. search and seizure by our government.
    Yes there are a lot of "ifs", but is this list used in reports when officers use it to discover a crime? If so the Affidavit should read " On the list date your affiant observed the defendant driving a white dodge. Your affiant recognized the def. from the list that NPPD created to identify Sovereign Citizens. Therefore your affiant conducted a stop bla bla search led to discovery of a firearm etc etc." Do you honestly think that shit will fly in court?

    From now on every lawyer should be asking each NPPD officer in all cases on the stand if their client is on any list.


    Take it down. There is a difference between intelligence and a "list"

  10. #20
    Unregistered
    Guest
    [QUOTE=Unregistered;2891319]That’s an awful lot of IFs. So what your saying is, the list isn’t illegal, just the improper use of a list is? I also don’t understand the purpose of the copy and pasting of a department’s bias based policing policy. So what are your thoughts on the states sex offender registry (list)?[/QUOTE
    ]Its not only a list, when officers are dispatched to a sovereigns house they are notified via cad that this person is a sovereign citizen, First if this person does no recognize authority, why is he calling the police, but as we all know once you get that notification via cad you handle the situation delicately. What if, as in this case, you are not a sovereign and are tagged as such. What are the checks n balances here?. So if a patrolman decides your sovereign are you tagged. A sex offender registry I believe is legislative approved and signed into law. You can only be placed on the sex offender registry by court order, but again who decided how and why you are placed on a sovereign list. Not once in my dealings with the so called sovereigns have I had any problems with them. There beef is with the govt not with us

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