HB7061 Analyses

[Unregistered]

Good advice, thanks! We need much more than 5% to keep the FHP a float! Wouldn't it be great if we had leaders like GSP! 20% Wow!

Something too think about. I have 28 years on and thinking about retiring but I can't because the money is just not there. I make 45,000 a year with FHP, that is really sorry after 28 years. So if you can better yourself elsewhere, do it before you get too many years on. It has been the same every year that I have been on, trying to get a raise is like beating a dead horse. The Governor and legislature do not care or give a rats ass about State law enforcement. Sorry, but it's the truth.

[Unregistered]

But a starting regular deputy makes more than a SGT,LT,CAPT. PBA has labor attorneys let's ask Matt. Nice try "Mr. Manager" from TALLY. Or call the SO and ask their personnel people. Please don't start rumors here. When the stampede starts safest place for you is on the sidewalk. Just like you've been all along.

In Pinellas, deputies start at $45,500 (they publish an extensive salary list on their website, it is called Job Descriptions if you want to Google it). In 2015, Pinellas troopers got the $5K bump so they make at least $39K. For most, a $45,500 salary is a raise. Presuming a THI makes about 10% more ($43K), the benefit is not as large.

Starting deputy salaries are far lower than most FHP supervisors, but their equivalent ranks pay a lot more:
One Pinellas FHP sergeant I looked up is making $62K after almost 30 years. Pinellas SO starts sergeants at $71K.
A less senior sergeant probably makes around the $50K mark, so it is still a pay cut.
The lieutenant there makes $61K. Pinellas SO starts lieutenants at $82K.
The captain makes $80K. Pinellas SO starts captains at $108K.

The pay for those that have promoted is not addressed in the bill. I can't see the captain taking a nearly 50% pay cut to become a deputy. If the contract does not apply to supervisors (it applies to "officers", which under 320.02 are everyone except the colonel), then who will they supervise once the troopers are gone? What happens if there are no equivalent positions in adjoining counties? The people pushing this bad bill keep saying it won't negatively affect anyone on FHP, but I don't see how that is avoidable. This bill has a LOT of unknowns, yet the Republicans are in lock step to vote for it. Nancy Pelosi would be proud- they are voting to pass the bill even though they don't know what it will do or cost.

There is also the work factor. There are some troopers that like their FHP duties and some deputies that like their SO duties. Some troopers may not see the extra $6K as enough incentive to handle different types of calls and be in a more political environment. The bill alludes to them doing traffic work, but once hired they could be sent to any type of call for service. Another factor is as someone else pointed out this may only last 2 years. It won't go to the governor this year since the Senate has no similar bill. I think if it is ever enacted as it is currently written, taxpayers in both counties would find out in a hurry how much this is really going to cost and the 2 years could not come fast enough for the sheriffs.

[Unregistered]

In Pinellas, deputies start at $45,500 (they publish an extensive salary list on their website, it is called Job Descriptions if you want to Google it). In 2015, Pinellas troopers got the $5K bump so they make at least $39K. For most, a $45,500 salary is a raise. Presuming a THI makes about 10% more ($43K), the benefit is not as large.

Starting deputy salaries are far lower than most FHP supervisors, but their equivalent ranks pay a lot more:
One Pinellas FHP sergeant I looked up is making $62K after almost 30 years. Pinellas SO starts sergeants at $71K.
A less senior sergeant probably makes around the $50K mark, so it is still a pay cut.
The lieutenant there makes $61K. Pinellas SO starts lieutenants at $82K.
The captain makes $80K. Pinellas SO starts captains at $108K.

The pay for those that have promoted is not addressed in the bill. I can't see the captain taking a nearly 50% pay cut to become a deputy. If the contract does not apply to supervisors (it applies to "officers", which under 320.02 are everyone except the colonel), then who will they supervise once the troopers are gone? What happens if there are no equivalent positions in adjoining counties? The people pushing this bad bill keep saying it won't negatively affect anyone on FHP, but I don't see how that is avoidable. This bill has a LOT of unknowns, yet the Republicans are in lock step to vote for it. Nancy Pelosi would be proud- they are voting to pass the bill even though they don't know what it will do or cost.

There is also the work factor. There are some troopers that like their FHP duties and some deputies that like their SO duties. Some troopers may not see the extra $6K as enough incentive to handle different types of calls and be in a more political environment. The bill alludes to them doing traffic work, but once hired they could be sent to any type of call for service. Another factor is as someone else pointed out this may only last 2 years. It won't go to the governor this year since the Senate has no similar bill. I think if it is ever enacted as it is currently written, taxpayers in both counties would find out in a hurry how much this is really going to cost and the 2 years could not come fast enough for the sheriffs.

Managers will not receive a lateral transfer. Quit thinking like that!! As in the private industry if a company buys your company you will have a title demotion and possibly even a pay demotion. And . . .why in the world do you think an FHP SGT, Lt, Cpt could manage an SO traffic unit. You're mixing apples and oranges. Low paying road work to higher paying road work would be the norm. ie Trooper to Deputy. Trooper's do make about $39,000 per year but that is only in CAD counties like down south or Hills or Pinellas. However . . .and here's the however . . .the state does not compute your CAD money into your retirement. If you work 208 for the county you do not have to pay insurance or mileage. Also any 208 worked for in the county goes toward your retirement. With FHP 208 you must pay for your patrol car insurance and mileage. Also FHP 208 along with CAD money does not . . .I repeat . . .does not go toward your retirement. Also for FHP 208 you have to pay your tax, just like the county, but with FHP 208 you must pay the 8% employer social security tax. So your total Social Security tax is right around 15 - 15 1/2%. Financially speaking the county is a much better deal. Everything is paid through the county so no waiting. You work it you'll get it on your next check. You are also paid twice a month. FHP pays once a month. If you want to talk money and which is the better deal talk to your accountant. An accountant will lay all out on the table for you in numbers that you can understand. If the SO offers or will accept my application I'm gone. And so are most of my squad mates!

[Unregistered]

Managers will not receive a lateral transfer. Quit thinking like that!! As in the private industry if a company buys your company you will have a title demotion and possibly even a pay demotion. And . . .why in the world do you think an FHP SGT, Lt, Cpt could manage an SO traffic unit. You're mixing apples and oranges. Low paying road work to higher paying road work would be the norm. ie Trooper to Deputy. Trooper's do make about $39,000 per year but that is only in CAD counties like down south or Hills or Pinellas. However . . .and here's the however . . .the state does not compute your CAD money into your retirement. If you work 208 for the county you do not have to pay insurance or mileage. Also any 208 worked for in the county goes toward your retirement. With FHP 208 you must pay for your patrol car insurance and mileage. Also FHP 208 along with CAD money does not . . .I repeat . . .does not go toward your retirement. Also for FHP 208 you have to pay your tax, just like the county, but with FHP 208 you must pay the 8% employer social security tax. So your total Social Security tax is right around 15 - 15 1/2%. Financially speaking the county is a much better deal. Everything is paid through the county so no waiting. You work it you'll get it on your next check. You are also paid twice a month. FHP pays once a month. If you want to talk money and which is the better deal talk to your accountant. An accountant will lay all out on the table for you in numbers that you can understand. If the SO offers or will accept my application I'm gone. And so are most of my squad mates!

Maybe this will clear things up for us.

http://www.pcsoweb.com/administratio...rrent-openings

[Unregistered]

Managers will not receive a lateral transfer. Quit thinking like that!!

Having read the bill, how should I think? As I noted, the issue is NOT addressed. Again, here is what the bill says in subsection (2)(c):

1. A sheriff must agree to employ officers of the Division of Highway Patrol who serve within the county unless, at an officer’s discretion, the officer chooses to relocate and remain with the Division of Highway Patrol or chooses to pursue other employment opportunities.

The people speaking in support of the bill are either misinformed or lying when they say no trooper will be negatively affected by this bill. Won't be the first time since Obama and Pelosi did the same thing with Obamacare. Republican legislators have turned a deaf ear to this issue just as they have turned a deaf ear to FHP pay and staffing.

As in the private industry if a company buys your company you will have a title demotion and possibly even a pay demotion.

Government is not private industry.

And . . .why in the world do you think an FHP SGT, Lt, Cpt could manage an SO traffic unit. You're mixing apples and oranges. Low paying road work to higher paying road work would be the norm. ie Trooper to Deputy.

In law enforcement, management is management. It's only a matter of conforming to the agency's guidelines, which would take some brief OJT. For example, someone that has supervised officers in a city police department could do so for a county or state agency elsewhere- the principles are the same. While lateral transfers are not the norm, depending upon the agency they are possible. A sheriff's office is a good example- the sheriff does the hiring, and can appoint someone at whatever rank they choose.

Trooper's do make about $39,000 per year but that is only in CAD counties like down south or Hills or Pinellas.

I was discussing Pinellas when I cited that example. I appreciate the agreement on the facts.

[QUOTE=Unregistered;2744879]...Financially speaking the county is a much better deal... An accountant will lay all out on the table for you in numbers that you can understand.[quote]
Again, agreement. Apparently you missed the earlier part I posted about salaries. If you look up the Pinellas SO published minimum salaries, they are FAR higher than FHP's equivalent positions. Here they are again with differentials so perhaps they will be easier for you to understand:
Trooper $39K, SO deputy $45.5K +$6.5K
Sergeant $50K (+/-), SO sergeant $71K +$21K
Lieutenant $61K, SO lieutenant $82K +$21K
Captain $80K, SO captain $108K +$28K

If the SO offers or will accept my application I'm gone. And so are most of my squad mates!

Sounds like a good move for you, both the grass and the uniform are greener. What is holding you back from doing it right now?

[Unregistered]

A couple other things to think about are the cost of health insurance and seniority. I know my local s.o. charges well over 600 a month for health insurance. And family coverage gets more expensive with each dependant that is added. As far as seniority goes, when we took over CVE we blended them in and they kept their seniority. I know when the local s.o. took over a couple city departments, they hired the officers but they put them at the bottom. Also, the contract says the s.o. has to hire the troopers but it doesn't say they have to be on the traffic unit. I can see these two sheriff's creating a traffic unit and advertising it for current deputies and sticking the troopers in a zone working calls for service like a rookie deputy.

[Unregistered]

A couple other things to think about are the cost of health insurance and seniority. I know my local s.o. charges well over 600 a month for health insurance. And family coverage gets more expensive with each dependant that is added. As far as seniority goes, when we took over CVE we blended them in and they kept their seniority. I know when the local s.o. took over a couple city departments, they hired the officers but they put them at the bottom. Also, the contract says the s.o. has to hire the troopers but it doesn't say they have to be on the traffic unit. I can see these two sheriff's creating a traffic unit and advertising it for current deputies and sticking the troopers in a zone working calls for service like a rookie deputy.

Many SO's only use motors as their traffic units (not sure about these two counties); and because traffic units don't usually answer regular calls for service, it's a competitive position.

I can't imagine the Sheriffs are going to be thrilled about having to hire troopers. They might do it if required to, but its unlikely the troopers would go straight into traffic duties or given any seniority. FDOT (CVE) folks were coming from one state agency to another state agency. The SO's probably wouldn't operate that way.

Similar to what was previously posted, do what is best for you. But, if you have never been at a SO, think about this too.

1. 208 - some currently work a lot of 208, which does not get counted toward retirement. At the county, the 208 you work would be OT thus get taxes automatically taken out and counted toward retirement. HOWEVER, because it's a county agency with mandatory minimum staffing (regular shift first, then OT on RDO's), the offerings of 208 are usually much less (no escorts leaving the county, no jobs outside that particular county, jobs offered to a lot of deputies - no special scheduling relationships, etc).

2. Promotional and transfer opportunities (related to potential salaries)- Remember other agencies promotional processes are very different and often even more subjective than the FHP method. Some require a physical fitness test, supervisor recommendations, and oral board without any written test or other standard - and these are the things they score you on.
You basically get 'appointed' or picked based on how well the command likes you, not on how well you can actually perform.

This translates into: promotions and specialty transfers (and the money that comes with them) are very difficult unless you are liked. This seems to be a problem for a lot of troopers that have been around for a long time.

3. In county government, there is a lot more behind the scenes negotiations and decisions made in elevators, the corner of the courthouse, etc. You never know who are dealing with or who you're about to offend because everyone knows something on someone. That next behind the scenes decision could be to get rid of you.

Knowing that these two SO's have a burning desire to get rid of FHP, if I was going to work at an SO - I'm not sure it would be either of these two. I'd be worried they would stack me up with so much paper, I couldn't get a job any where else.

[Unregistered]

The off duty going into your retirement is not always true, it depends on the agency and how they handle their Off duty. Plus, if it does go into your retirement and you don't have to pay for mileage,fuel etc...you won't be getting 50-60 an hour.

On that note, I know the sheriff in my area requires insurance on their patrol car and that you pay mileage if working an off duty vehicle. You also have to pay mileage to take your car home once you leave the county. Both too and from work every day. So all of that adds up.

[Unregistered]

The people speaking in support of the bill are either misinformed or lying when they say no trooper will be negatively affected by this bill. Won't be the first time since Obama and Pelosi did the same thing with Obamacare. Republican legislators have turned a deaf ear to this issue just as they have turned a deaf ear to FHP pay and staffing.


Government is not private industry.


Most of this is true but FHP has done this to themselves. The people in this agency can't vote any other way. Slick Rick want to do this in his first term and after it failed. Again most of the people in this department voted for him a second time plus anyone related to the republican party in key districts. Knowing what the republicans want (less goverment). Now the speaker is wanting the same thing. Both our of the republicans party. Its the state legislators not the U.S elections. Go ahead and call your state rep. They can care less. One more vote and the end begins.

[Unregistered]

The off duty going into your retirement is not always true, it depends on the agency and how they handle their Off duty. Plus, if it does go into your retirement and you don't have to pay for mileage,fuel etc...you won't be getting 50-60 an hour.

On that note, I know the sheriff in my area requires insurance on their patrol car and that you pay mileage if working an off duty vehicle. You also have to pay mileage to take your car home once you leave the county. Both too and from work every day. So all of that adds up.

Wasn't talking about any other counties. I was talking about Polk/Pinellas. I'm saying what they currently do that's different from FHP. Did you look at the hyperlink above. So what if they start me off at $45,000 per year. That's $6,000 more a year. In nine years I'm at $71,000. I'll answer all the barking dog calls they want me to or any other calls they want me to respond to.