Time for a change

**Stephanie Gibson** · 05-31-2016, 04:57 AM

So we have all seen the dashboard footage, surely you know more than i, of these officers history. I have been conflicted this weekend between celebrating some kind of victory at them being caught red handed and being mad as hell that the behavior wasnt stopped sooner and how different things would have been for a lot of people... I keep landing on .. because Leadersahip failed to mold these officers, these careers are screwed. (Aint feeling sorry for them but trying to recognize how they were allowed to get away with this again and again.)

So my question for yall is.. do you think leadership could have saved the careers by recognizing the problem and addressing earlier? Is it unfair to think the Chief should be aware and involved in the use of force reports.. Looking problematic behavior patterns? What layer of leadership is responsible the Sgts, the LTs, Captain or Chief? or is it only the officers responsibility for the actions taken?

Unregistered · 05-31-2016, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Stephanie Gibson

So we have all seen the dashboard footage, surely you know more than i, of these officers history. I have been conflicted this weekend between celebrating some kind of victory at them being caught red handed and being mad as hell that the behavior wasnt stopped sooner and how different things would have been for a lot of people... I keep landing on .. because Leadersahip failed to mold these officers, these careers are screwed. (Aint feeling sorry for them but trying to recognize how they were allowed to get away with this again and again.)

So my question for yall is.. do you think leadership could have saved the careers by recognizing the problem and addressing earlier? Is it unfair to think the Chief should be aware and involved in the use of force reports.. Looking problematic behavior patterns? What layer of leadership is responsible the Sgts, the LTs, Captain or Chief? or is it only the officers responsibility for the actions taken?

In the civil process its called vicarious liability, a mistake by a subordinate holds the upper command responsible, in a para military operation such as a police dept it operate the same, Patrolman screws up, this holds the sgt, lieutenant captain asst chief and chief responsible, failure to properly supervise/train. What makes me curious here is why the delay in a I/A. They waited until the attny made a complaint. It was obvious from the start something was wrong here, a good leader would have as they say nipped it in the bud. Instead one was promoted to K9 and the other to detective, as to make one believe it was ok to maliciously arrest and commit battery on this man. as they say screw up, move up.

**Stephanie Gibson** · 05-31-2016, 04:08 PM

I dont understand the IA policy either. When Joe filed his complaint, he filed it on all three officers. However in the end, only one officer was IA reviewed. So Long and Lyon not only skated the internal investigation but lied and got away with it in our case. I didnt push back because back then, i still trusted the process.. hope when the FDLE looks at them they see all of their cases, not just the ones they were rung up on.

One other thing has me confused, why would one be taken off the streets, yet the other is still on the job? I guess we wait until they come to a decision to see the whys behind it.

Failure to properly supervise/train.. that is perfect. If it were one or two officers/events i could see holding the individual or immediate supervisor accountable.. but when we have soo much going on.. soo many different officers and a myriad of misdeedsover numerous years.. well that has to point to the top.. no chance FDLE stepping into that investigation i suppose.

Unregistered · 05-31-2016, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Unregistered

In the civil process its called vicarious liability, a mistake by a subordinate holds the upper command responsible, in a para military operation such as a police dept it operate the same, Patrolman screws up, this holds the sgt, lieutenant captain asst chief and chief responsible, failure to properly supervise/train. What makes me curious here is why the delay in a I/A. They waited until the attny made a complaint. It was obvious from the start something was wrong here, a good leader would have as they say nipped it in the bud. Instead one was promoted to K9 and the other to detective, as to make one believe it was ok to maliciously arrest and commit battery on this man. as they say screw up, move up.

The question is, was the video supplied to superiors when the report was submitted. These officers were not trained to act this way, it is well documented. That is one thing the nppd does di well is provide training. This is Rouge at best and it takes things like this to bring it out. As far as the detective goes, Noone is surprised, he has a bad reputation here, but Noone does anything about it.

**Stephanie Gibson** · 05-31-2016, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The question is, was the video supplied to superiors when the report was submitted. These officers were not trained to act this way, it is well documented. That is one thing the nppd does di well is provide training. This is Rouge at best and it takes things like this to bring it out. As far as the detective goes, Noone is surprised, he has a bad reputation here, but Noone does anything about it.

To be clear, I do not think they were intentionally trained to act this way. However, something went wrong along the way. I am sure they were good guys when they became cops. This is more than rogue.. there have been too many different cops, acting out in different ways. There is a systemic problem, not just the thumping of citizens then sacrificing them to the judicial system to cover their asses.. we have an unchecked problem in K9, and like the mother thumpers.. we have a problematic history with the explorer program.. Lyon was involved there too. "but Noone does anything about it".... and THERE enlies the problem for me and brings me full circle to my original check of who is responsible.. I think that is Vespia.

In the case of these two yahoos who have less than 10 years, they had to have been brought in when v was LT or Captain.. the bulk of their careers Vespia was Chief sooooooooo this is on his watch.. His lack of discipline, HIS MOLDING... yet City Hall thinks he should be allowed to try again? What am I misssing? Can someone make a case that they are not a reflection of Vespia's leadership? Should be given another try at molding the new improved NPPD?

Come on Josh.. help me poke holes in my logic please.

Unregistered · 05-31-2016, 07:59 PM

Hello, everyone. This is Cory Hutchinson, candidate for N.P. City Commission District 1. I have found the Leo Affairs Forum to be interesting and informative. I appreciate that many of our officers can share their concerns in a safe space. That safe space, however, should be in the police department, not just on a forum. Unfortunately, it's not safe for these concerns to be shared in the P.D. currently. That must change. If I am elected, I will work as hard as I have to for as long as I have to ensure that accountability is brought to City Hall. I will work to protect our environment, to grow our small businesses, and to create a community that encourages freedom, as well as opportunities for education and careers. I want our great officers to know they are appreciated. Thank you for all you do. It's time to take North Port into the future. My campaign is based on two phrases: "We the people" and "Make your voice heard." We the people will make our voices heard, and we will take our city back!

Check out my website at :http://www.hutchinsondistrict1.com

Campaign Facebook page: www.facebook.com/hutchinsondistrict1/

If anyone wishes to volunteer/donate, that is always appreciated. However, all I need is your vote on August 30th! Let's do this together, and we the people can create the best North Port we've ever seen!

-Cory Hutchinson (District 1).

Unregistered · 05-31-2016, 08:09 PM

My question is where is the dash cam footage from Longs vehicle, the one provided was from Lyons car and where is the audio, if long had his recorder on there would be video and audio of the entire incident.and if not then its a SOP violation, Did Longs cam catch something admin does not want the public to see.

Unregistered · 06-01-2016, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My question is where is the dash cam footage from Longs vehicle, the one provided was from Lyons car and where is the audio, if long had his recorder on there would be video and audio of the entire incident.and if not then its a SOP violation, Did Longs cam catch something admin does not want the public to see.

K9 did not have cameras until recently. I don't think he had one during this incident, wasn't this in 2013? They just got cameras like this past year.

Unregistered · 06-01-2016, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Unregistered

K9 did not have cameras until recently. I don't think he had one during this incident, wasn't this in 2013? They just got cameras like this past year.

What is his vehicle ID # ?

Unregistered · 06-01-2016, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Unregistered

K9 did not have cameras until recently. I don't think he had one during this incident, wasn't this in 2013? They just got cameras like this past year.

It appears he had a 07 crown vic (ford), I believe they were all equipped with cameras. Car numbers and assignments are a matter of public record, they have the video with audio.