2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth is
    It doesn't matter if 'Save Our Homes' doubled, tripled, quadrupled or not.
    When an aspiring politician makes a claim that does not hold up under scrutiny, it does matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth is
    The mere fact that the exemption 'increased at all' reduced available funds to government entities, like Delray Beach, that rely on property taxes to provide funding for services.
    Ah, so at a time when property values were falling, the number of property owners was falling and the means of already overburdened taxpayers to continue to fund the ever-increasing size and price of local government was in decline, your solution was to what, raise taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth is
    Who cares what the amount is?
    The already over-burdened taxpayers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truth is
    Add to the fiscal dilemma
    What fiscal dilemma?

    Please, take the publicly available financial data for Delray Beach and show me a "crisis".

  2. #12
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    When an aspiring politician makes a claim that does not hold up under scrutiny, it does matter.

    This thread was about a former officer making statements. We now have submitted to this board that this is about a "former officer" who is an aspiring politician? Well Inquiring Mind, when has anything 'any' politician said, really mattered? Unless it promotes their agenda and regardless of their background, why do you think the comingling of facts with distortions designed to infer the truth is any different than any other politician, former cop or not? Truth is, I guess if you're an 'aspiring politician' you should be excellent at promoting 'the spin', huh? Better yet, as an aspiring politician you should know the facts, but lie instead. Maybe he/she is really being a better 'politician' than you think.

    Ah, so at a time when property values were falling, the number of property owners was falling and the means of already overburdened taxpayers to continue to fund the ever-increasing size and price of local government was in decline, your solution was to what, raise taxes?

    Ah...at no time did I ever say that 'raising taxes' was the solution. You sound like an aspiring politician, putting words in peoples mouth. In fact, I think the Former City Manager (DH) did a great job seeing to that...wouldn't you say? He kept a lid on costs. The 'ever-increasing size and price' of government is the cost of doing business and to provide quality services to it's citizens. Accepting the fiduciary responsibility of providing those 'quality services' while at the same time containing costs is a delicate yet very calculated balancing act. At some point in time...the citizens will pay for these 'calculations', either to support funding for quality services to return or, suffer from inferior services that will have obvious implications, but either way there will be consequences. Stakeholders will have to decide at what expense, to what extent and to what degree are the consequences acceptable. Multi-million dollar lawsuits from anything A-Z and under the sun hiring, training, retention, equipment failures, supervision...name it. What about the never ending labor disputes costing tax payers millions of dollars in an attorneys fees (yes, billable hours makes the right attorneys wealthy), poor response times, broken down and outdated equipment, lack of training and on-going education? Just peel back the onion and look underneath...Delray Beach is a mess, but not because of the hard working, loyal and dedicated employees.

  3. #13
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Sorry to bust bubbles but there were a bunch of early retirement buyouts around that time. I though it was more like 15 city wide wit frozen positions through the recommendations made to Harden from a review board.

  4. #14
    Guest

    Talking No bubbles are bursting

    Quote Originally Posted by spin doctor
    Sorry to bust bubbles
    I'm just looking for factual information, sir. What I've heard just doesn't add up which is why I'm asking. If what you have to offer is factual then I thank you for it!

    Quote Originally Posted by spin doctor
    there were a bunch of early retirement buyouts around that time. I though it was more like 15 city wide wit frozen positions through the recommendations made to Harden from a review board.
    A previous poster who stated that the actual size of the force is closer to 150 officers as opposed to the near fifty (as claimed by the officer in question) also stated that the aforementioned 17/18 seemed excessive, which was my original point.

    Remember, the numbers that didn't add up weren't mine. I heard them from the officer in question.

    Regardless if the exact number was 15 or 17 or something in that neighborhood, 15 or 17 out of 150-something is something entirely different than 18 out of 51 or, roughly, 1/3rd. It seems to me that if there was so severe a financial emergency as was suggested previously that the department had to make a choice over keeping the older 1/3 or the younger 2/3 of its force, that would have been something that made headlines in one of PBC's premier communities. It's further mind-boggling that these decisions, which would have been made sometime in 2007 or early 2008, were made before the legislation that the officer in question claims necessitated them was even passed and, according to a previous poster, would not have had an actual effect until 2010.

  5. #15
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    When an aspiring politician makes a claim that does not hold up under scrutiny, it does matter.

    This thread was about a former officer making statements. We now have submitted to this board that this is about a "former officer" who is an aspiring politician?
    I hadn't intended to bring that up, but after he identified himself here it became relevant to the reason for my question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Well Inquiring Mind, when has anything 'any' politician said, really mattered?
    That's rather cynical, isn't it? IMO, it's that mindset that causes so many bad politicians to get elected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Unless it promotes their agenda and regardless of their background, why do you think the comingling of facts with distortions designed to infer the truth is any different than any other politician, former cop or not?
    In other circumstances it may not, but since the individual in question imagines himself to be a paragon of truthfulness and virtue, when in fact he's just a bloated blowhard..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Truth is, I guess if you're an 'aspiring politician' you should be excellent at promoting 'the spin', huh? Better yet, as an aspiring politician you should know the facts, but lie instead.
    As I'm sure you're aware, politicians in the 21st Century don't appear to be big on actually reading legislation. If they were, they'd know little details like just how much a certain exemption they're blaming for alleged revenue deficiencies (even though it can be illustrated from the city's publicly available financial records that both funding for LE increased at this time, as did overall tax revenue). Such was my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Maybe he/she is really being a better 'politician' than you think.
    Seeing as how he came in third, I doubt it.

    Also, when you're running for office on a platform of little more than, "I'm not the other guy", you need to have some sort of novelty attached to your name, or you need to be a celebrity. Think Arnold Schwarzenegger, who really brought nothing to the table other than, "I'm not Gray Davis". The individual in question, recently described in the media as "lacking both depth and warmth", is neither novel nor is he a celebrity.

    He's also not, IMO, especially likeable.

    You remember Night Court? Dan Fielding ran for office and his campaign manager used some overly-expository language like "positive perceptibility" or something along those lines which he clearly doesn't understand. Asked to explain what he means, the CM switches to plain English and says, "People don't like you."

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Ah...at no time did I ever say that 'raising taxes' was the solution. You sound like an aspiring politician, putting words in peoples mouth.
    I didn't say that you said it. I asked if you thought that was how this alleged revenue problem should have been solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    In fact, I think the Former City Manager (DH) did a great job seeing to that...wouldn't you say?
    And bravo for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    He kept a lid on costs. The 'ever-increasing size and price' of government is the cost of doing business and to provide quality services to it's citizens.
    Expense =/= quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Accepting the fiduciary responsibility of providing those 'quality services' while at the same time containing costs is a delicate yet very calculated balancing act.
    No question about it. And, perhaps, cutting the size of the police force was the proper response. But was it the proper response a year or more before the legislation allegedly responsible for reducing revenues was even passed or its effects felt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    At some point in time...the citizens will pay for these 'calculations', either to support funding for quality services to return or, suffer from inferior services that will have obvious implications, but either way there will be consequences. Stakeholders will have to decide at what expense, to what extent and to what degree are the consequences acceptable. Multi-million dollar lawsuits from anything A-Z and under the sun hiring, training, retention, equipment failures, supervision...name it. What about the never ending labor disputes costing tax payers millions of dollars in an attorneys fees (yes, billable hours makes the right attorneys wealthy), poor response times, broken down and outdated equipment, lack of training and on-going education? Just peel back the onion and look underneath...
    You make a lot of very good points and I agree with most of them, but I'm not sure they're relevant here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Delray Beach is a mess, but not because of the hard working, loyal and dedicated employees.
    I don't agree that DB is a mess.

  6. #16
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    [quote=InquiringMind]
    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    When an aspiring politician makes a claim that does not hold up under scrutiny, it does matter.

    This thread was about a former officer making statements. We now have submitted to this board that this is about a "former officer" who is an aspiring politician?
    I hadn't intended to bring that up, but after he identified himself here it became relevant to the reason for my question.

    Quote Originally Posted by "Stay on Topic":31kxvkns
    Well Inquiring Mind, when has anything 'any' politician said, really mattered?
    That's rather cynical, isn't it? IMO, it's that mindset that causes so many bad politicians to get elected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Unless it promotes their agenda and regardless of their background, why do you think the comingling of facts with distortions designed to infer the truth is any different than any other politician, former cop or not?
    In other circumstances it may not, but since the individual in question imagines himself to be a paragon of truthfulness and virtue, when in fact he's just a bloated blowhard..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Truth is, I guess if you're an 'aspiring politician' you should be excellent at promoting 'the spin', huh? Better yet, as an aspiring politician you should know the facts, but lie instead.
    As I'm sure you're aware, politicians in the 21st Century don't appear to be big on actually reading legislation. If they were, they'd know little details like just how much a certain exemption they're blaming for alleged revenue deficiencies (even though it can be illustrated from the city's publicly available financial records that both funding for LE increased at this time, as did overall tax revenue). Such was my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Maybe he/she is really being a better 'politician' than you think.
    Seeing as how he came in third, I doubt it.

    Also, when you're running for office on a platform of little more than, "I'm not the other guy", you need to have some sort of novelty attached to your name, or you need to be a celebrity. Think Arnold Schwarzenegger, who really brought nothing to the table other than, "I'm not Gray Davis". The individual in question, recently described in the media as "lacking both depth and warmth", is neither novel nor is he a celebrity.

    He's also not, IMO, especially likeable.

    You remember Night Court? Dan Fielding ran for office and his campaign manager used some overly-expository language like "positive perceptibility" or something along those lines which he clearly doesn't understand. Asked to explain what he means, the CM switches to plain English and says, "People don't like you."

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Ah...at no time did I ever say that 'raising taxes' was the solution. You sound like an aspiring politician, putting words in peoples mouth.
    I didn't say that you said it. I asked if you thought that was how this alleged revenue problem should have been solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    In fact, I think the Former City Manager (DH) did a great job seeing to that...wouldn't you say?
    And bravo for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    He kept a lid on costs. The 'ever-increasing size and price' of government is the cost of doing business and to provide quality services to it's citizens.
    Expense =/= quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Accepting the fiduciary responsibility of providing those 'quality services' while at the same time containing costs is a delicate yet very calculated balancing act.
    No question about it. And, perhaps, cutting the size of the police force was the proper response. But was it the proper response a year or more before the legislation allegedly responsible for reducing revenues was even passed or its effects felt?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    At some point in time...the citizens will pay for these 'calculations', either to support funding for quality services to return or, suffer from inferior services that will have obvious implications, but either way there will be consequences. Stakeholders will have to decide at what expense, to what extent and to what degree are the consequences acceptable. Multi-million dollar lawsuits from anything A-Z and under the sun hiring, training, retention, equipment failures, supervision...name it. What about the never ending labor disputes costing tax payers millions of dollars in an attorneys fees (yes, billable hours makes the right attorneys wealthy), poor response times, broken down and outdated equipment, lack of training and on-going education? Just peel back the onion and look underneath...
    You make a lot of very good points and I agree with most of them, but I'm not sure they're relevant here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stay on Topic
    Delray Beach is a mess, but not because of the hard working, loyal and dedicated employees.
    I don't agree that DB is a mess.[/quote:31kxvkns]

    Inquiring Minds. You sound like a wind bag *****. Like I stated on a previous post that got deleted. You want Whatley, step up with a conduct number and I'll give you more 43 that your pen can handled. Set up a meet, and if you're serious, I will go on record all day long. I have several copy of filing packets that are just an appetizer that would send would send several of over past and present delray ***** police officers to jail. Including my very sergeant combo of swiggy and brady. Thats just the water to be served at dinner.

  7. #17
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Carver Estates
    Inquiring Minds. You sound like a wind bag *****. Like I stated on a previous post that got deleted. You want Whatley, step up with a conduct number and I'll give you more 43 that your pen can handled. Set up a meet, and if you're serious, I will go on record all day long. I have several copy of filing packets that are just an appetizer that would send would send several of over past and present delray ***** police officers to jail. Including my very sergeant combo of swiggy and brady. Thats just the water to be served at dinner.
    Got anything to say in response to the subject?

  8. #18
    Unregistered
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by ;1981863
    Got anything to say in response to the subject?
    If you have anything, why haven't you done anything about it. You're just another lying fool.

  9. #19
    Unregistered
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    If you have anything, why haven't you done anything about it. You're just another lying fool.
    Where's the "lie", tough guy?

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