2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements
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  1. #1
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    2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    To those in the know:

    A former employee of the DBPD has been going around telling people in a public forum that he and 17 others (the "older" third of the force) took early retirements around 2008. He says this dropped the force from 51 to 33 officers.

    He attributes this to there being "no money" (his words), despite public records showing that funding for law enforcement actually increased in the year in question.

    He blames the supposed lack of money on a decrease in tax revenue because of the Save our Homes Amendment which he claims "doubled" (again, his words) the Florida Homestead Exemption, even though it only increased it from $50,000 to $75,000, and despite public records showing that overall tax revenues actually increased in the year in question.

    I've heard all sorts of things about "buy outs" and new contracts and all sorts of things, as well as vacancies needing filled, spending freezes, etc., but what I haven't seen is anything from an official source, or even so much as a newspaper article detailing how a third of a major municipality's police department all retired at the same time.

    Can anyone shed some light on this?

  2. #2
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    ask vincent c gray and swiggy what took place. the arena brothers might be able to answer some questions.

  3. #3
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Quote Originally Posted by InquiringMind
    To those in the know:

    A former employee of the DBPD has been going around telling people in a public forum that he and 17 others (the "older" third of the force) took early retirements around 2008. He says this dropped the force from 51 to 33 officers.

    He attributes this to there being "no money" (his words), despite public records showing that funding for law enforcement actually increased in the year in question.

    He blames the supposed lack of money on a decrease in tax revenue because of the Save our Homes Amendment which he claims "doubled" (again, his words) the Florida Homestead Exemption, even though it only increased it from $50,000 to $75,000, and despite public records showing that overall tax revenues actually increased in the year in question.

    I've heard all sorts of things about "buy outs" and new contracts and all sorts of things, as well as vacancies needing filled, spending freezes, etc., but what I haven't seen is anything from an official source, or even so much as a newspaper article detailing how a third of a major municipality's police department all retired at the same time.

    Can anyone shed some light on this?
    No wonder you haven't seen a report of "how a third of a major municipality's police department" all retired. We don't carry 51 officers. We carry closer to 151 and if it went to 133 that's not even close to a decrease of 33% but closer to 10%. That's not news and as for 17 leaving the agency on "early retirement", it sounds like what the City offered those who had more than 18 years but less than 20 to buy them out so they would leave. 17 sounds like too many but there were a lot who took advantage of that "early retirement" option.

  4. #4
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Quote Originally Posted by InquiringMind
    To those in the know:

    A former employee of the DBPD has been going around telling people in a public forum that he and 17 others (the "older" third of the force) took early retirements around 2008. He says this dropped the force from 51 to 33 officers.

    He attributes this to there being "no money" (his words), despite public records showing that funding for law enforcement actually increased in the year in question.

    He blames the supposed lack of money on a decrease in tax revenue because of the Save our Homes Amendment which he claims "doubled" (again, his words) the Florida Homestead Exemption, even though it only increased it from $50,000 to $75,000, and despite public records showing that overall tax revenues actually increased in the year in question.

    I've heard all sorts of things about "buy outs" and new contracts and all sorts of things, as well as vacancies needing filled, spending freezes, etc., but what I haven't seen is anything from an official source, or even so much as a newspaper article detailing how a third of a major municipality's police department all retired at the same time.

    Can anyone shed some light on this?
    "...despite public records showing that funding for law enforcement actually increased in the year in question." - That very well may be what happened to the PD budget, but not to the police officer salaries. Also, it's important to note that although the Save Our Homes Amendment increased from 50K to 75K, the affect on the City's budget is always a 1 full year behind and if you check the records, the mileage remained the same or decreased, also contributing to the overall wage concerns for all city employees.

  5. #5
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    [No wonder you haven't seen a report of "how a third of a major municipality's police department" all retired. We don't carry 51 officers. We carry closer to 151 and if it went to 133 that's not even close to a decrease of 33% but closer to 10%.
    The "51 officers" figure is not mine. It came from the former officer who made the statement.

    That's not news and as for 17 leaving the agency on "early retirement", it sounds like what the City offered those who had more than 18 years but less than 20 to buy them out so they would leave. 17 sounds like too many but there were a lot who took advantage of that "early retirement" option.
    Indeed, 17 DOES sound like too many. Again, the statement was made by the former officer.

  6. #6
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Quote Originally Posted by More Education
    "...despite public records showing that funding for law enforcement actually increased in the year in question." - That very well may be what happened to the PD budget, but not to the police officer salaries.
    Among other statements being made by the officer in question was that "there was no money" and that they had to get rid of, in his words, the oldest top third of the force, or the majority of the bottom 2/3.

    Also, it's important to note that although the Save Our Homes Amendment increased from 50K to 75K...
    According to the officer in question, the homestead exemption "doubled". Obviously that isn't the case, but, again, it's what he is claiming.

    the affect on the City's budget is always a 1 full year behind and if you check the records, the mileage remained the same or decreased, also contributing to the overall wage concerns for all city employees.
    I examined several years of publicly available data for both the municipality of Delray Beach as well as greater Palm Beach County. There was no point in which either funding to the PD was significantly cut or that overall tax revenues decreased to the point that a third of the police department (his words) would have had to be let go to save the rest.

  7. #7
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Quote Originally Posted by InquiringMind
    Quote Originally Posted by More Education
    "...despite public records showing that funding for law enforcement actually increased in the year in question." - That very well may be what happened to the PD budget, but not to the police officer salaries.
    Among other statements being made by the officer in question was that "there was no money" and that they had to get rid of, in his words, the oldest top third of the force, or the majority of the bottom 2/3.

    Also, it's important to note that although the Save Our Homes Amendment increased from 50K to 75K...
    According to the officer in question, the homestead exemption "doubled". Obviously that isn't the case, but, again, it's what he is claiming.

    [quote:30afkf60]the affect on the City's budget is always a 1 full year behind and if you check the records, the mileage remained the same or decreased, also contributing to the overall wage concerns for all city employees.
    I examined several years of publicly available data for both the municipality of Delray Beach as well as greater Palm Beach County. There was no point in which either funding to the PD was significantly cut or that overall tax revenues decreased to the point that a third of the police department (his words) would have had to be let go to save the rest.[/quote:30afkf60]

    So, you found your answers and this thread is now dead.

  8. #8
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Save our homes did in fact double the Homestead exemption which in turn took away 24 million dollars of lost state money which was approved by the voters in 2008 and took effect in 2009. Employees were in bought out with incentives to retire and positions were frozen. Nice try Mitch. No layoffs or forced retirements. If retirements were not taken by those eligible, then yes layoffs could have occurred per the HR directer at that time. The city has since recovered very well and positions are no longer frozen.

  9. #9
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Quote Originally Posted by I know the truth
    Save our homes did in fact double the Homestead exemption which in turn took away 24 million dollars of lost state money which was approved by the voters in 2008 and took effect in 2009. Employees were in bought out with incentives to retire and positions were frozen. Nice try Mitch. No layoffs or forced retirements. If retirements were not taken by those eligible, then yes layoffs could have occurred per the HR directer at that time. The city has since recovered very well and positions are no longer frozen.
    It doesn't matter if 'Save Our Homes' doubled, tripled, quadrupled or not. The mere fact that the exemption 'increased at all' reduced available funds to government entities, like Delray Beach, that rely on property taxes to provide funding for services. Who cares what the amount is?

    Add to the fiscal dilemma, a City Manager who did his best to make sure the mileage either remained the same or decreased for much of the period in question.

  10. #10
    Guest

    Re: 2008 DBPD Layoffs/Forced Retirements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Whatley, alias 'I know the truth'
    Save our homes did in fact double the Homestead exemption
    50,000 x 2 = 100,000.

    The "Save our Homes" Amendment, "Increases the homestead exemption by exempting the assessed value between $50,000 and $75,000".

    http://ballotpedia.org/Florida_Save_Our ... ry_2008%29

    You either aren't very good at math or you're reading comprehension skills are lacking.

    Or, like a true politician (despite failing to win), did you just not read the legislation you demonized?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Whatley
    which in turn took away 24 million dollars of lost state money which was approved by the voters in 2008 and took effect in 2009.
    How could it have been responsible for your early retirement, along with 1/3 of the force (per you), in 2008 if it didn't take effect until 2009 and the effects, per a previous poster, wouldn't be felt until 2010?

    The fact is that in the year you (and 17 other officers, your numbers) claim to have taken early retirement specifically because of this legislation, both funding for law enforcement as well as overall tax revenues increased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Whatley
    Employees were in bought out with incentives to retire
    ???

    An entire third of the police department?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Whatley
    Nice try Mitch.
    Who is Mitch?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Whatley
    No layoffs or forced retirements.
    According to you it was either the oldest 1/3 or the bottom 2/3. How is that not forced?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Whatley
    If retirements were not taken by those eligible, then yes layoffs could have occurred per the HR directer at that time.
    Because of legislation that had yet to be passed, let alone take effect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Whatley
    The city has since recovered very well and positions are no longer frozen.
    Based on publicly available data, the city never actually suffered the financial losses you've claimed were created because of this legislation which you've cited as the cause of your early retirement.

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