FHPA outlook for the future - Page 2
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  1. #11
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    This is a very good discussion but please keep it to the facts and or merits of your position. No need to denigrate each other. Opinions are just that, opinions.

  2. #12
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    http://myfloridalegal.com/__85256236006 ... ,auxiliary

    Instead of opinions...and we all know what opinions are like. Let's us look at the ruling from the State Attorney’s office. In this ruling auxiliary members are CLEARLY shown to be "certified". Additionally, this is the legal opinion that allowed LSP to go forward.

    Bring on the discussion.

  3. #13
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    You aren't sworn or certified.

    A State Attorney, nor an Attorney General's opinion can change that.

    for those that have not completed a 'Full' academy-----If you didn't take the state exam, you can't be certified. Thus, your only ability is of that of an Auxiliary. For those with full standards, different story.

  4. #14
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    All new auxiliary members must meet the FDLE requirements for auxiliary officers plus the additional requirements of the FHP, such as Vehicle Ops. This amounts to 320 hours of training which include all of the high-liability classes. The difference between the full academy and the auxiliary academy is the amount of classroom work. The auxiliary only receives abbreviated versions of the classes that are not high-liability. Also, the application and screening process has changed over the years. Auxiliary members now undergo the same screening process as full-time members. The point is that because of the changes over the years, units are likely to have members who range from those who watched videos to those who completed full, hands-on training. All of the auxiliary can't be painted with the same brush. Some of those who watched the videos have quite a bit of experience under their belts, others have just been along for the ride.
    The bottom line is that the auxiliary is an under-appreciated organization and the continuous drop in the annual radio numbers is very disturbing. But, as a previous post mentioned, I also do it for the troopers. I haven't had a situation where I know that I made the difference between someone going home and not but I do know that I make a trooper's shift easier and more productive. That is the payoff for me.

  5. #15
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    "A State Attorney, nor an Attorney General's opinion can change that."

    Are you serious or just a troll? FYI, their legal opinions are followed in this state.

  6. #16
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    I get the point you are attempting to make. I do. I am not a troll, just a guy with an opinion. One founded in experience, research, and law. Go read the actual cases involving A-men or the like.

    The reality is that if an A-man goes x15 without a f/t trooper present, as in RIGHT THERE, it will NEVER hold up in court. Mr. Butterworth was not well informed when he wrote that opinion --- and how many years ago was that??? EXACTLY. (he's been gone for 13 years)

    Auxiliary trained (oxi-moron) troopers are not going to be doing that anyway. The LSP leash is short, thankfully.

    The FHPA does a job. Has or had a purpose. My point is that the A-men that want to do real LEO work are in the wrong place. FHPA has not kept up with the times.

  7. #17
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    Real Police work? The FHP/FHPA has now officially endorsed level 4. This level allows authorized A-men to respond to, investigate traffic crashes, and issue a UTC. Of course, this is nothing new since there have been A-men doing this for quite some time already.

    My original question is what is in our future? Is there one? Should we start immediately looking for other options?

  8. #18
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    Auxiliary trained (oxi-moron) troopers...
    Your opinion founded on experience, research and law could use a bit more research. Check the current CJSTC requirements for auxiliary officers. Those don't just apply to the FHPA, they are statewide standards. Granted, those trained under these newer standards are in the minority but any new people will have to meet those standards. As for the law, state statutes give auxiliary officers quite a bit of leeway. Most of the restrictions come from agency policy rather than the law.
    I think the FHPA is a tremendous asset to the state in general and the patrol in particular. It is also a resource that is under appreciated and under utilized. I think the problems in the auxiliary and the FHP both stem from leadership. This is not just a problem with the patrol but with all state agencies. There is a siege mentality where is is more important to protect your job than to actually do your job. No one is willing to step out with a bold move. CYA is the primary rule to live by. It didn't get this way overnight and it won't change overnight. Leaders who can't afford to make any mistake are going to be very cautious. If you can't make any mistakes, then you can't learn from them.

  9. #19
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest
    Auxiliary trained (oxi-moron) troopers...
    Your opinion founded on experience, research and law could use a bit more research. Check the current CJSTC requirements for auxiliary officers. Those don't just apply to the FHPA, they are statewide standards. Granted, those trained under these newer standards are in the minority but any new people will have to meet those standards. As for the law, state statutes give auxiliary officers quite a bit of leeway. Most of the restrictions come from agency policy rather than the law.
    I think the FHPA is a tremendous asset to the state in general and the patrol in particular. It is also a resource that is under appreciated and under utilized. I think the problems in the auxiliary and the FHP both stem from leadership. This is not just a problem with the patrol but with all state agencies. There is a siege mentality where is is more important to protect your job than to actually do your job. No one is willing to step out with a bold move. CYA is the primary rule to live by. It didn't get this way overnight and it won't change overnight. Leaders who can't afford to make any mistake are going to be very cautious. If you can't make any mistakes, then you can't learn from them.
    Well said.

    The fact remains that even with the "New and Improved" requirements, the A-men still only attend 45-50% of the hours of a real full-time academy. They also lack a certification exam and a real or meaningful FTO program. (riding in the right seat is not the same as being in a formal FTO program)

    The CJSTC standards for the auxiliary training are, and have always been watered down in an effort to allow people to get through it with minimal effort. All this so they'll be able to volunteer. It is all very noble. It serves a purpose. I'm confident that the A-men have on many occasions, by merely being present, have deterred some bad-guy from hurting someone. Again that is the mission, is it not? Serve, protect, hug the trees, and kiss the babies? Change a flat tire occasionally. Get a half off grand-slam at Denny's every once in a while. 8)

    So, how can we compare a trooper who goes to an academy for 750 hours, then takes a state exam that he must pass, then follows it up with an FTO program of another 400-500 actual, hands on hours; to that of an A-men? YOU CAN'T. Not if you are honest with yourself. The most dangerous part about this job is often the person you work with. We should all hope and pray that we each can recognize our limitations. That is to say, to "Know what we don't know". Again, this is often clouded when you have a person with some "Honorary" rank affixed to the uniform. After all, how can a chief or captain or Lt be wrong? :snicker: When is the last time you saw one of the "Experienced" A-men expose their gun side to a bad guy? More importantly, did anyone correct the action? :?

    It would make more sense if we were talking about fully certified guys that retired or something along those lines. However, in the case of FHPA, many of the auxiliary members are essentially experiencing LEO work for the 1st time in their lives.

    There is no acceptable excuse for substandard training. There is no substitute for real experience. Repetitions and practice matter. So, no way that a guy with less training, experience or lack of daily reps is equal to a real trooper. Add to that the fact that many of the members are aged. The mind and body are not as nimble. Often the mind writes checks that the body can't cash. Just a fact of getting older. We all hope to be there. Getting old beats the hell out of the alternative.

    So how many people would want to have a doctor that only completed 50% of medical school operating them? (say your prayers)
    How about having a lawyer that never had to sit for the bar exam defending you in a capital case? (careful picking up that soap)
    How about having a teacher that never attended the last two years of college. Never had to take or pass the requirements to become a real teacher, teaching your kids?
    What about an accountant representing you in front of the IRS, who never too the test to become a CPA?

    I feel that all current A-men should have to take some type of state exam. It could add credibility to the people, the program and the patrol. Instead, the "Management" would rather hide behind words like "Sworn" and "Certified" when in actuality, we know the real deal.

    Again, if we put all the egos aside, the role of a volunteer LEO is great. It is however one that must be tempered, trained and dare I say tested for competency? :roll:

    All of my comments are intended to open minds. To make you think. Don't take it as an attack. I too wear a badge and carry a gun. So, yes, I've been there and done that.

    Stay safe brothers and sisters. :cop:

  10. #20
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    1

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    I was just getting ready to apply as an FHPA
    Looks like it may be a waste of time.

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