FHPA outlook for the future
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 30
 
  1. #1
    Guest

    FHPA outlook for the future

    Looking at the new ID list for 2013 it dawned on me that we now have less than half the number of auxiliary members as when I first started.

    Does this organization have a future? Considering that FHP was almost abolished what can we expect.

  2. #2
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    The FHPA is as lost as the FHP. Just as the St.Pete times quoted, "the lost patrol", its now the lost FHPA.

    There was a time when the FHPA had advocates both in its upper staff and in GHQ. Those strong leaders are gone. The current FHPA leadership is not leading nor fighting for the organization. The current FHP leadership is fragmented, weak and ineffective. Look at the numbers of member that have left in the last 3 years or so. There were fine members with a strong sense of pride and service.

    The use of reserves or volunteers is growing in every county and city agency that has a program. The trend in the various state programs, DEP, FWC and of course, FHP is declining. Its weak leadership on both sides and very narrow minds.

    Its a shame, the FHPA is a very under appreciated asset.

  3. #3
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest
    The FHPA is as lost as the FHP. Just as the St.Pete times quoted, "the lost patrol", its now the lost FHPA.

    There was a time when the FHPA had advocates both in its upper staff and in GHQ. Those strong leaders are gone. The current FHPA leadership is not leading nor fighting for the organization. The current FHP leadership is fragmented, weak and ineffective. Look at the numbers of member that have left in the last 3 years or so. There were fine members with a strong sense of pride and service.

    The use of reserves or volunteers is growing in every county and city agency that has a program. The trend in the various state programs, DEP, FWC and of course, FHP is declining. Its weak leadership on both sides and very narrow minds.

    Its a shame, the FHPA is a very under appreciated asset.

    Read the new policy that came out? They made it extra clear that we are not sworn LEO's. Say what you want about that,call us wanna-be's, whatever but with the certification we have, County SO's and Municipal Police Departments engage in all sorts of law enforcement actions that we will never do. And now that we're definitely not sworn LEO's (funny, I remember taking an oath, didn't you?) why do we need firearms, handcuffs, ASR, etc? Why do we need to abide by FDLE training standards? .....Last time I checked FDLE only regulated law enforcement training.

    Let's face it: The Auxiliary is on the way out; the proof is in the numbers. We're down to less than 300 sworn, the average age in climbing higher and higher. Our recruitment is down; Here's my question to someone wanting to come on the Aux: Why? Why join an organization that does not appreciate you?
    As for me, I'm here because of the troopers. Period. Not because this is a great agency (it's not) that appreciates what we do (it doesn't) I'm here because I genuinely love getting in that car and having fun with some of the finest men and women I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. I've met some of the best friends I've ever had by riding in the right-front-seat. Indeed, twice in my time on the Aux I've been told "my husband came home last night because of you" That's why I continue to stay here, but when/if those Troopers move on I'll be right behind them.

  4. #4
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    The last two posts/comments both make good points.

    Clearly the issue is proper utilization or expanded duties of the current members. The department does not wish to do this. There is no legal impediment to expanding the duties. 321 or 943 leave it up to the agency. This agency wants no part of the auxiliary doing more.

    Once you are appointed to the FHPA, your training fate is that of the full time troopers. Same everything. Same DT, same FQ, same 40 hour mandatory. By limiting the FHPA members in duties is nothing more than an indictment of their own training programs.

    If you just have auxiliary standards, your stuck. If you have full police standards, as upwards of 45+ members have, go elsewhere.

    I stayed for the troopers, not the department. Too bad the department doesn't want to improve the working conditions for both.

  5. #5
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    The second post is text book "Battered Spouse Syndrome" in nature. The mentality "I don't have anything else, so I'll stay.", is the consensus amongst most members. It is gut wrenching to know that mostly everything mentioned in this particular thread has merit. It is even more gut wrenching knowing that there is nothing that can, or will be done.

    I came to the conclusion many years ago, that the patrol is a place to come and spend some time amidst the company that best suits our individual personalities. It is a club of sorts, with different interests. We volunteer for the benefit of a collective whole (hopefully). Ultimately, our time spent in the service of this agency can never be repaid. Not with money, medals, plaques; and certainly, not with at a boys! Payment, comes in the form of personal gratification and the knowledge that all is karmic.

    The situation at FHP is old news. The only difference is that it has gradually worsened, and is now quickening faster than most can adjust. Bottom line, don't come out and expect. Just come out and do!

  6. #6
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    Using the word "Sworn" repeatedly as it refers to the members of the FHPA is silly, and dangerous in some ways.

    The fact is that many (not all) of the older FHPA members attended academies that consisted of 120-140 hours. Currently full academies are 700 plus hours.

    These 'Special FHPA Academies' did not prepare the student for the entire spectrum of LE work. At one point, there were FHPA troopers sitting in classrooms watching videos as a form of training. That's right, watching a video! You don't learn LE work by sitting in a room with a group of other untrained people watching videos. Sorry if this offends you. But a real academy requires the student to actually learn in practical applications. Hands on.

    Completion of this 'Special' training did not provide the ability to take the 'State exam' and thus there was never a 'Certification' which also resulted in the inability of the member to be 'Sworn'. FHPA members often confuse 'Policy' from that of 'Statute' and then again with 'FDLE' standards. No matter your actual skill level, absent the full training that a F/T trooper or LEO has completed, you have no idea what your missing.

    Nothing - No One - No Policy can change the fact that the FHPA gained its reputation within the volunteer LEO ranks because the training was sub-par. The insanity of having guys with with stripes, bars, oak leafs, and even eagles running around acting like they were 'Real' or 'Certified' did nothing to help the cause.

    I once witnessed a FHPA Lt. tell a guy that was fully certified, with years of actual experience, that FHPA did not recognize the training from 'Other Academies' and that this officer would need to start over with FHPA's in-house training. We never saw that officer again at a recruitment meeting. He's been with another agency for 10 years or so now. I see him at DUI checkpoints. Again, a flaw based on the arrogance of one, but a loss for us all. Another person I know was told he was overweight by FHPA standards. This guy was in his mid 30's and 6-04 @ 280lbs. Built like a football player. You'd want him in your car any night. Nope, we told him 'No thanks'. Again, this is in the face of having a bunch of old men that 'Think' they knew what was best.

    That is the bad news. The good news is that FHPA, in spite of the training issues, provided the allusion of more troopers on the road. That was a great thing for the F/T Troopers. Many of them actually appreciated the dedication of the FHPA members. We all know the mission; most accept it for what it is. Those with the big egos ruin it for the many dedicated members.

    Yes, FHPA is clearly in trouble. The auxiliary trained members have nowhere to go. Most agencies are afraid of the liability associated with the lack of training or certification. The fully trained, full standard 'State Certified' A-men can find homes with local PDs or SOs with little trouble. (as we know DEP is gone, and FWC hasn't taken applications in a long time)

    One last thought. Has anyone ever thought about the liability of the LSP? How do we allow non-certified members to patrol in marked cars; yet restrict the ability to actually do the job? You all know what I'm talking about.

    Be safe and enjoy the ride into the sunset. This dog and pony show is almost done.

  7. #7
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    "Not Sworn", That was an amazingly powerful expose of exactly what the FHPA really is. Seldom has anyone been as incisive with these truths. From training to age, it's all dead on. We are a danger to ourselves, the public, and at times a liability to the FT Troopers we ride with.

    The rank structure of the FHPA is ridiculous. Members of the FHPA should all fall under the direct supervision of a full time district commander. Currently the blind lead the blind, sometimes with incredible ego.

    LSP is an train wreck waiting to happen. Aside from the fully certified members, no one should be allowed to go out on LSP and pretend to be Troopers. FHP loves to create the illusion that there is more man power on the roads, but it's just fluff. It's going to take a critical incident for FHP to re-evaluate the LSP thing (level 3-4).

    FHPA paid details is another important point that needs careful revision. How is it that FHPA members that are not sworn and don't have any police powers conduct paid details at venues? How is it that they (FHPA leadership) can charge money for services provided on an hourly rate for each person worked and coerce the membership to participate? Again, this is another dangerous undertaking.

    FHP won't spend money, time, or effort to train the FHPA to full standards. Even if they did spend the money. Let's face it, the majority of the older members could not make it through the physical rigours of training. Many amongst us would balk at meeting full certification standards, because "we know too much".

    FHP has a host of poor practices that will in time prove themselves as such. There isn't a good outlook for the future as we have failed to plan for today, and learn from past experiences. A director with foresight would suspend the entire operation until further training and development of the armed personnel in the FHPA. Until then, let's continue playing "dress up".

  8. #8
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    Quote Originally Posted by Pseudo Trooper
    "Not Sworn", That was an amazingly powerful expose of exactly what the FHPA really is. Seldom has anyone been as incisive with these truths. From training to age, it's all dead on. We are a danger to ourselves, the public, and at times a liability to the FT Troopers we ride with.

    The rank structure of the FHPA is ridiculous. Members of the FHPA should all fall under the direct supervision of a full time district commander. Currently the blind lead the blind, sometimes with incredible ego.

    LSP is an train wreck waiting to happen. Aside from the fully certified members, no one should be allowed to go out on LSP and pretend to be Troopers. FHP loves to create the illusion that there is more man power on the roads, but it's just fluff. It's going to take a critical incident for FHP to re-evaluate the LSP thing (level 3-4).

    FHPA paid details is another important point that needs careful revision. How is it that FHPA members that are not sworn and don't have any police powers conduct paid details at venues? How is it that they (FHPA leadership) can charge money for services provided on an hourly rate for each person worked and coerce the membership to participate? Again, this is another dangerous undertaking.

    FHP won't spend money, time, or effort to train the FHPA to full standards. Even if they did spend the money. Let's face it, the majority of the older members could not make it through the physical rigours of training. Many amongst us would balk at meeting full certification standards, because "we know too much".

    FHP has a host of poor practices that will in time prove themselves as such. There isn't a good outlook for the future as we have failed to plan for today, and learn from past experiences. A director with foresight would suspend the entire operation until further training and development of the armed personnel in the FHPA. Until then, let's continue playing "dress up".
    Originally, I was going to respond to "Not Sworn" as I believe he has some well-reasoned points about the Aux, although some of the information he mentions is outdated/not current. However, the above post also brings out some points that also deserve a response.

    First, and absolutely foremost, if you, for one second believe you're a danger to anyone, then you should separate yourself from the organization and report your concerns to the Inspector General. Think about this logically--If you honestly believe what you wrote, why would you put "the public" in danger and be "a liability to the FT troopers"? What a selfish, reckless, and pitiful thing to do (put others in danger) Again, this is only if you honestly believe what you wrote.
    Next, the issue of details. You write: "How is it that FHPA members that are not sworn and don't have any police powers conduct paid details at venues? How is it that they (FHPA leadership) can charge money for services provided on an hourly rate for each person worked and coerce the membership to participate? Again, this is another dangerous undertaking. " As you know, FHPA Troopers explicitly have "police powers" when acting under the supervision of a full-time Trooper, and every detail I've ever been on has had full-time Troopers on site. If venues can hire a bunch of yellow-shirted "event staff" for security, crowd control, traffic, etc. then they can hire the Auxiliary for similar functions---not a real big mystery.
    Next, this statement: "FHP won't spend money, time, or effort to train the FHPA to full standards." As far as I know, but maybe I'm wrong, there is currently no Auxiliary-to-full standards "crossover" type academy certified by FDLE (as there is for corrections-to-law enforcement and law enforcement-to-corrections) which would mean every Auxiliary Trooper would have to go through an entire BRC. I would, however, agree with you that possibly the Auxiliary should accept only fully-certified applicants in future. This situation, however, neglects to consider the fact that many agencies, some with just as many or more officers than FHP, have robust "reserve" programs where auxiliary-certified members undertake all sorts of L.E. actions. I find it hard to believe that if it was some incredible scandal or liability to do so, that these agencies would engage in such conduct.
    Also, once an Auxiliary Trooper comes "on board" there is no differentiation in training. None. I've never been to a training class and had the instructor say "The minimum score for Full-time Troopers is X and for Auxiliary is Y" The Glock Transition School, where we lost a great number of members, is evidence of the training not being lessened in intensity or rigor for the Auxiliary.

  9. #9
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    Regardless of what the "Major" thinks and rebuttals with, the FHPA program is a stale joke in it's present state. I've had many FT Troopers tell me directly that they don't ride A-Men because they don't trust FHPA training and standards. These individuals can't be outed to please the Majors ego. He's irate because his recruitment efforts are being hurt by some of the opinions being posted. If you go to meetings with a walker, you're a liability. If you can't be stressed out at the stress shoot, you're a liability. If you feel that your volunteer position should strictly be clerical, you're a liability. If you need to be treated gingerly during DT, because your Coumadin makes you bruise easily, you're a liability. If you are on an ego trip because you are wearing FHPA rank, you're a liability... I bet you've never been involved in armed/unarmed combat in your entire life (with the exception of that 1st grade fight) Major. You got pissed at what "Pseudo Trooper" and "Not Sworn" had to say. That's too bad, the First amendment to the U.S. Constitution still stands. Everyone has had their experiences with FHPA, and perhaps they're not all as glorious as yours. Rose colored glasses come with the fake rank, I guess.

    In the biker world the FHPA would be the equivalent/referred to as Hangers-On. Fully patched members never really trust you, they just tolerate you and use you to hell. At FHP it's exactly the same. The FT Troopers never really trust you, but since you jumped through the smaller hoops, they'll use you to take out the garbage and handle things that no certification qualifies you to handle.

  10. #10
    Guest

    Re: FHPA outlook for the future

    RESPONSE1 ---------- You state: Also, once an Auxiliary Trooper comes "on board" there is no differentiation in training. None.


    That is exactly the issue. It is not the training once you are a member, it is the training PRIOR to being a member. Your head is in the sand if you think that a guy with 140 hr auxiliary academy 10, 15 or even 25 years ago is the same as a fully certified Trooper. There is zero logic in trying to make the point. Further, need we discuss FTO? Or how about supervision?

    Last point, anyone that wants to know the truth about training as it pertains to a specific member need only Google it. Simply google the members name with the word 'Officer' in front of it. The Herald newspaper has a great data base. It will show you complaints, certification dates, and if it was an auxiliary or full academy.

    Peace

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •