Transporter and dealer tags?

"Google" Florida Independent Auto Dealers dealer license plates

I did Google that but the letter you reference wasn't there. Please post the URL

Dealer tags! I hate them!

Does this hurt anyone? Does it harm you? No wonder FHP has lost their way. ops:

Does this hurt anyone? Does it harm you? No wonder FHP has lost their way. ops:

It is funny how troopers complain about getting a letter for violation a policy yet what to make a criminal charge on someone based on their own incorrect interpatation of a law. Pretty hyprotical, how about enforcing laws that protect people. I never worked a fatality due to a dealer tag violation!

Does this hurt anyone? Does it harm you? No wonder FHP has lost their way. ops:

It is funny how troopers complain about getting a letter for violation a policy yet what to make a criminal charge on someone based on their own incorrect interpatation of a law. Pretty hyprotical, how about enforcing laws that protect people. I never worked a fatality due to a dealer tag violation!

Troopers priorities are all wrong these days. But then again it is supervisors who allow this kind of BS to go on.

Since you guys are the pros in traffic anyone can help me
With the statute to 39 ppl with transporter tags for personal use not business? And also what are the penalties for driving flordia license plate dealer tags for personal use?

I read all the posts in reply and almost every one of them confuses the difference between transporter plates and dealer plates. Let me give you the perspective of someone who practiced law in the State of Florida for over twenty years.

Police officers would be better served and so would our communities if they had a little more humility. None of the people who responded to you display the slightest clue that statutory laws commonly referred to as "criminal" or "quasi-criminal" (that second term being all of traffic laws, are required to be strictly construed.

Now, that's a legal term. What it means is that no police officer, in fact, no judge, is permitted to imply or interpret or read into the text of a statute anything it does not clearly say in plain language. In addition to that, under the long-established rules of the interpretation of the words written in a statute, if he should find that when those words are plainly read they seem to say something absurd or ambiguous, a judge is required to resolve the ambiguity in favor of the defendant.

Keep that in mind. As some responded, they think the law is ambiguous and should be changed, but decided they should anyway write a ticket for an imaginary violation of the use of the plates in question. I say imaginary, because there is not a single word anywhere in Chapter 320 that states an "infraction" of any kind or a penalty.

If you are familiar with criminal statutes or specific traffic infractions and you read their respective sections, you will always find a stated infraction, its level, for example, a misdemeanor, etc., and a penalty or fine or incarceration. I challenge any of you to cite me the specific section of Florida law under which you find that improper use of a dealer plate or a transporter plate is an infraction, or what that really means.

Take for example the simple dealer license plate. Some pretty arrogant cops here posted insulting comments about people who have spent three thousand dollars to take a pre-licensing course, paid another minimum of three thousand dollars to obtain a surety bond, pay thousands of dollars for lot or garage insurance with required coverage limits, undergo scrutiny, examination, and inspection by DMVHS, sign leases for premises that must pass DMVHS inspection, pay thousands of dollars a month in rent and operating expenses, spend many thousands to purchase inventory, another many thousands to repair and maintain vehicles, and all the other attendant costs of operating an independent motor vehicle dealership.

Let's take a look at the relevant text regarding dealer plates in Florida. It is 320.13(1)(a). Now, the title of the entire section should tell you something. It is not about any infraction of any traffic offense, rather it is about dealer and manufacturer license plats and alternative method of registration. Also keep that in mind, as most of the officers who responded are most familiar with the "regular" let's say non-alternative method of vehicle registration they deal with most of the time when they ask for title and registration from a driver they have stopped for some apparent traffic violation.

The only part that has anything to say about motor vehicle dealer plates is the first. The rest is about other types of dealers, manufacturers, and the right to transfer a dealer plate by paying a $4.50 fee.

Let's parse the actual text, which is in red. I'll cut it up into short phrases:

Any licensed motor vehicle dealer and any licensed mobile home dealer may, upon payment of the license tax imposed by s. 320.08(12), secure one or more dealer license plates,

this is pretty clear...it's about how if you have a valid motor vehicle dealer license, then if you pay the required tax, you can get as many dealer license plates as you want.

which are valid for use

under what conditions?

on motor vehicles or mobile homes

"any motor vehicle"

owned by the dealer to whom such plates are issued

the vehicle is owned by the dealer

When?

while the motor vehicles are in inventory and for sale,

Now here's a big one...notice that it says "or." That means any motor vehicle owned by the licensed dealer EVEN if it is not in his inventory and for sale

or while being operated in connection with such dealer’s business,

Notice also that the "condition" of when a vehicle is being operated in connection with the dealer's business is not part of the phrase that refers to when he is using the dealer plate on one of the cars in inventory for sale. This, of course, makes sense, since any use of any vehicle he has in inventory for sale is operated in connection with his business at any time it is on the road. It extends his opportunity to display it for sale to anybody at any time - the very business he is in. But, in addition, the dealer can legally slap a dealer plate on any car he owns, whether he has it in inventory for sale or not, and drive it for any purpose related to his business - from buying dog food for his yard dog, to toilet paper for the shop, to going to see a car for purchase, to going to the bank, the post office, the tag agency, grabbing lunch or getting a haircut on the way. I'm sure police officers driving their patrol cars off duty stopping for coffee or groceries don't think they are violating any business use of their vehicles - and they're not.

but are not valid for use for hire.

Now, why would you stop a car with a dealer plate if you had not observed any traffic infraction?

Plenty of cops are giving tickets and writing the "infraction" as "improper use of dealer plates - 320.13(1). Where do you see in the text of that law how you would determine if that plate is being improperly used? I've had dealer clients ticketed for having children in the vehicle. That's insane. If a car is being demonstrated to a buyer who has his children along with him, do you suggest he should leave them on the side of the road, or at the dealer with strangers? Dealers are fully insured. Their vehicles are fully insured. It's really none of your business who is in the vehicle.

How would you determine if the vehicle is being used in connection with the dealer's business? Especially with an independent motor vehicle dealer, which is often a small family owned and operated business, practically everything they do is in connection with that business. They could be negotiating the purchase of a car from a private individual at any time of the day or night. Because the car is in a grocery parking lot? Would you suggest that the dealer is not buying a case of sodas to keep in his refrigerator for customers at the dealership? You are insane if you go down that road. You just can't determine because you choose, to say when a dealer plated vehicle is being operated in connection with the business. Any question or ambiguity would have to be resolved in favor of the dealer, period.

Insulting comments imply that dealers are trying to get away with not registering a vehicle and slapping a dealer plate for their wives to drive, for example. What nonsense. First of all, it costs the dealer more to insure his vehicles, maintain his license and surety bond, pay his rent and expenses, than to register a vehicle for his wife and pay separate insurance on it. Second, if you owned a small family business, wouldn't your wife help with it if you needed anything from bookkeeping to cleaning to whatever?

Let me make a suggestion to all the cops who are itching to write tickets to the legally licensed business operators of independent motor vehicle dealerships. Every day, you can drive down Krome Avenue or Dixie Highway and find literally hundreds of cars illegally displayed for sale. It's called curbstoning. A gasoline service station may not legally display vehicles for sale on their business property unless they have a motor vehicle dealer license. Whenever you see four, five, or six cars for sale on private property or along the right of way in front of private property, you should find out if they all belong to the property owner - they don't. There are so many violators and illegal sellers of motor vehicles that you could ticket with actual infractions.

Instead, you dishonor your position as law enforcement officers harassing legal business owners who actually collect and pay substantial amounts of taxes for the state. You should stop harassing the good citizen who has gone the mile to get all the proper licenses and documentation to operate a legal business and focus your attention on the people who are really "trying to get away with something."

[20yrsAttorney]

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"Google" Florida Independent Auto Dealers dealer license plates

I did Google that but the letter you reference wasn't there. Please post the URL[/quote]

The letter was issued by the DMV as a memo to all law enforcement agencies. It was signed by Carl A. Ford, Director, dated Sept. 27, 2010. It was issued because of the rampant abuse by police officers writing those tickets and misinterpreting the law. As you all know, that doesn't matter, because the dealers' time and money is still wasted having to go to court to defend the bogus tickets. Some may simply pay them to avoid any more loss of time and money, but at the time the practice had gotten so ridiculous that the DMV saw it fit to send a memo trying to get law enforcement agencies to stop. The DMV was also making a mistaken interpretation, but at least they rightly stated that "dealers may operate vehicles on the highways of Florida at any time for personal business as long as the vehicle is in inventory and for sale or while being operated in connection with such dealer's business."

In another post I fully explained how ANY judge is required to interpret the plain meaning of those words. They have to follow rules. The rules say the phrase after the comma, or is separate and different from that preceding it. The words "personal business" don't appear in the text of the statute, but at least DMV correctly separates the when a vehicle is owned, in inventory and for sale from the "or" phrase following it. That second phrase has nothing to do with dealer plates used on inventory for sale cars, but with cars the dealer may own and not have in inventory or for sale.

In any event, there is nothing that says cars in inventory and for sale may not be used by the dealer even for his own personal use as long as it has the plate on it. Let's say the dealer owns his personal car and has his personal plate and insurance on it. If he wants to use it for business purposes, he can legally slap a dealer plate on it.

Remember the title of 320.13 says "alternative registration?" A dealer plat IS an alternative registration. When a cop stops someone driving a car with a dealer plate, that plate IS the registration - on whatever car it is placed.

Many cops are confused about the transporter plate and have cited my dealer clients claiming that they can only use the dealer plate to drive a car from dealer to dealer. They are totally wrong and confusing a dealer plate with a transporter plate.

[20yrsAttorney]

This would be a grand violation and abuse of police authority.

It is both stupid and wrong to inquire what they are using the vehicle for. If there is a transporter plate on it, the restrictions on the use of that plate are clear and don't require any inquiry into vehicle use, only that the proper paperwork is in order. That's it. It's none of your business as a cop to query someone with a legally acquired transporter plate what he is using the vehicle for. You know under law what the use is and at what times permitted. If the vehicle has a dealer plate, that IS the registration. Citing them for vehicle not registered would be a total loser in court. I don't know what "tag not assigned" is, but it has nothing to do with a dealer plate. If you seize the plate and tow the vehicle, you're only setting up your department for a major lawsuit that they WILL lose. You will have cost your community easily tens of thousands of dollars in what your department's attorneys will almost definitely settle out of court.

[20yrsAttorney]

I bet a lot of used car dealers pay for a few plates, slap them on the wife's car, keep the car in "inventory" and beat the insurance rap by having it included in the stock. I think the paper plates have improved a bit over the years. They also need to crack down on the tag agencies that "overlook" titles that are incorrect.

This is silly. "Beating the insurance rap" completely ignores the enormous costs of obtaining a legal independent motor vehicle dealer license (what the post calls "used car dealers"). A very strange way to save money, or maybe it's just that the poster has no clue what is involved in running an independent motor vehicle dealership.

Yes, the paper plates were a problem, but today they don't exist. They are computer generated on special forms that have to be paid for to be generated. They are not easy to copy and alter like the old paper plates were.

In twenty years of dealing with tag agencies I have never seen any of them "overlook" incorrect titles. This also shows a complete lack of understanding of how they are regulated and controlled. If anything, the state is making those "errors." I have had not an insubstantial number of dealer clients over the years who got screwed by the state, which issued new title to mechanics or paint & body shops without any due process while the dealer had actual and legal possession of title - not tag agency's fault, but State of Florida.

[20yrsAttorney]

Dealer tags are for business purposes only! But there is no way you can enforce it. Many times I stop people for driving unregistered vehicles with a dealer tag slapped on. They need to change the statute so it can be enforced.

The statute needs to be changed! People are constantly abusing dealer tags.

You're right about that!

Actually, they are WRONG about that. I challenge anyone to find the words "dealer tags are for business purposes only!" in the statute.

Of course, EVERY SINGLE VEHICLE with a dealer plate that you EVER stop will ALWAYS be what you call "unregistered." That is exactly what 320.13 is about. READ THE TITLE. It says "Dealer and manufacturer license plates and alternative method of registration.

The poster seems to have missed reading that. A dealer plate IS the registration. That's all you need. That is what the statute is about officers.

Nobody is ABUSING dealer plates. No **** off the street can walk in and buy a dealer plate. Those plates and the alternative method of vehicle registration they represent are available only to people who have paid over three thousand dollars to take a pre-licensing course, have passed a state exam on all the pertinent laws with far more exact understanding than any traffic cop of those laws regulating their businesses, as the state and state law require. They have also spent thousands of dollars to obtain a surety bond against which the state is allowed to execute for violations of strict regulations. These people you think are "abusing" are actually bending over backwards to run a clean and legal business. They are constantly being inspected and have to supply so much information and keep it current that often inspectors will call them and warn that they must make a correction. They collect taxes for the state and are also strictly regulated by the Department of Revenue. They have to register with computerized regulated and controlled documentation databases. They pay many thousands of dollars in required insurance, and another many thousand in rent and operating expenses. My conservative guess is that even the smallest independent motor vehicle dealer must invest at a minimum a couple hundred thousand dollars to carry on his business. These are not the guys selling cars without licenses, without collecting taxes, and with minimal or no expenses (by the way, those guys can't get a dealer plate no matter how much they want). If you see a dealer plate, it was issued to a fully licensed dealer. They are so well regulated that those plates ARE all the registration that is required of them. Their sales and inventory records are subject to regular and even unannounced on the spot inspection. So, you officers should please get real about your prejudices.