Updated Off-Duty Carry SOP

I had to read the new updated SOP involving Off-Duty Carry several times to make sure I understood the new changes. I am not the least bit happy with the changes, which in my opinion will result in much less deputies carrying off-duty firearms. It appears that unless you plan on carrying a .40 caliber pistol in a approved holster, you will be up the creek w/o a paddle. With society as crazy and violent as it is today, why would you decide to suddenly make off-duty carry so strict? This is another perfect example of not using any common sense. With this new updated SOP, I have several questions that would be great if somebody in the know could answer.

(1) Does this SOP take immediate affect, without giving time for deputies to meet the new stricter guidelines?

(2) How does this SOP affect someone who possesses a Concealed Weapons Permit?

(3) How does this SOP affect our Ammendment Rights to Bear Arms like any other citizen, as long as we follow all state & federal laws?

(4) Does this SOP mean that we will have to purchase our own off-duty ammunition to qualify with and carry if we possess any other gun besides a .40 caliber?

(5) Isn't it very impractical to restrict deputies to such a heavy caliber off-duty gun & holster when we live in a state that requires comfortable & loose clothing due to the climate?

(6) How do we go about immediately qualifying with off-duty guns other than the Glock 22?

(7) Is the range going to have the appropriate manpower and space to handle the amount of deputies that will need to meet the new guidelines?

(8) Will this be considered Paid Duty Time in order to meet the new guidelines?

(9) Why is this new SOP so strict, when we should be encouraging deputies to carry off duty?

(10) I am sure that I probably have other questions, but question #9 just made me to mad to think staright. Thanks in advance to those who may have the answers to some or all of the above questions.

[The Nitely Blog]

Read the new SOP several times myself and still have some questions as well. Either my comprehension skills suck, which in all fairness may be the case, or I'm not allowed to carry half of the firearms I own off duty anymore.

I had to read the new updated SOP involving Off-Duty Carry several times to make sure I understood the new changes. I am not the least bit happy with the changes, which in my opinion will result in much less deputies carrying off-duty firearms. It appears that unless you plan on carrying a .40 caliber pistol in a approved holster, you will be up the creek w/o a paddle. With society as crazy and violent as it is today, why would you decide to suddenly make off-duty carry so strict? This is another perfect example of not using any common sense. With this new updated SOP, I have several questions that would be great if somebody in the know could answer.

(1) Does this SOP take immediate affect, without giving time for deputies to meet the new stricter guidelines?

(2) How does this SOP affect someone who possesses a Concealed Weapons Permit?

(3) How does this SOP affect our Ammendment Rights to Bear Arms like any other citizen, as long as we follow all state & federal laws?

(4) Does this SOP mean that we will have to purchase our own off-duty ammunition to qualify with and carry if we possess any other gun besides a .40 caliber?

(5) Isn't it very impractical to restrict deputies to such a heavy caliber off-duty gun & holster when we live in a state that requires comfortable & loose clothing due to the climate?

(6) How do we go about immediately qualifying with off-duty guns other than the Glock 22?

(7) Is the range going to have the appropriate manpower and space to handle the amount of deputies that will need to meet the new guidelines?

(8) Will this be considered Paid Duty Time in order to meet the new guidelines?

(9) Why is this new SOP so strict, when we should be encouraging deputies to carry off duty?

(10) I am sure that I probably have other questions, but question #9 just made me to mad to think staright. Thanks in advance to those who may have the answers to some or all of the above questions.

1. SOP's take affect immediately unless otherwise noted.
2. If you have a CCW then you are acting under the umbrella of CCW state guidelines, so I will continue to carry what I feel comfortable and have trained with. If you identify yourself as a leo when/if you pull it, then you are acting underneath hcso umbrella and sop's.
3. HCSO SOP does not supersede the constitution. However, your right to bear arms (under legal authority)will not protect your job if you violate SOP's.
4. Probably due to fiscal constraints.
5. Yes, but HCSO is limiting it's liability as if it is being run as a corporation instead of a law enforcement agency.
6. Immediatly? I dont think HCSO knows that word anymore, unless it is a Blue Team. Try to squeeze in during the week, but you will probably have to wait until the next in-service.
7. No.
8. No.
9. Liability and fiscal consideration. Again, HCSO is a corporate office now, not a law enforcement agency.
10. Just my 2 cents but it is my personal opinion that if you want to carry something other than what is stated in the new SOP, I would get a concealed weapons license and leave the credentials at home. Damned if you do, damned if you dont, but at the end of the day, I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Stay safe.

[Cruel Truth]

I'll take a stab at responding to the questions.

1. I'm sure the SOP took effect when published.

2. The SOP is a Sheriff's Office rule. It is designed by lawyers to protect the Sheriff's Office if an off duty deputy uses a firearm, by being able to demonstrate in court that the office had taken measures to assure that the off duty deputy was skilled in the use of an approved firearm.

Having a concealed weapons license has no bearing on this issue. If you rely upon your legal right to carry some other firearm under the provisions of the license you are nonetheless in violation of the SOP and can be disciplined for the violation.

Don't confuse law and rules. You wouldn't be prosecuted under the law but you could be disciplined under the rule.

3. The amendment that you refer to is the Second Amendment. The SOP does not cancel your "right to keep and bear arms," it just specifies what firearm you can carry.

When you accepted the position of deputy you tacitly relinquished some elements of your constitutional rights. For example, your right First Amendment free speech is limited in regard to ethnic slurs. A citizen on the street can call people vile names and not be disciplined. You can not.

4. I have no idea.

5. Of course it is. That is not a concern of the lawyers. See answer number two.

6. Ask the Rangemaster.

7. Probably not. Ask the Rangemaster.

8. You aren't required to participate in this activity. Why would it be paid duty time?

9. See answer number two.

10. The question you didn't ask is "What will happen to me if I carry an unapproved firearm?"

The ramifications can be great if you ever have to use it. If you intervene in a crime, or even use it in self-defense, there are dozens of things that might go wrong which could lead to lawsuits.

a. Accidentally hit a bystander and the failure to meet the SOP may be blamed because you neglected to qualify and you may be held negligent.
b. Your pistol could misfire and you might fail to rescue a victim, leaving you at fault for not having an inspected and approved weapon.
c. Using a smaller caliber may result in failing to stop the felon even if you hit him, leaving him able to harm someone which might not have happened if you used a .40 caliber. This could leave you at risk for a lawsuit.

You get the idea................

:shock:

No problem at all Sheriff. I will no longer carry any firearm off duty thanks to this new SOP. I will now just walk away and not intervene in any potentially violent situation I witness on the street when off duty. In essence, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't after reading this new ridiculous policy. Between the unbelievably large credentials wallet with mickey mouse sized badge that doesn't fit into most pants pockets, to the latest issuing of the large Glock 22 and the accompanying unrealisticly updated off duty carry policy........I will be leaving everything at home. When something happens and questions begin to get asked why a Hillsborough Deputy did not take action off duty, I will be sadly covered by another one of the offices anti-law enforcement policies. Why do I feel that many of these changes are being based on how the Feds do things and specific leaders that want to run the office just like a private corporation, which I believe was also mentioned in one of the above posts. Once again, criminals & private citizens with concealed weapon permits have much less restrictions on carrying a firearm on their person then Hillsborough Sheriff Deputies do...... :shock:

All I can say is, this office never used to be like this. It used to be a LEO friendly place to work, where leadership at most levels still cared for the troops and made common sense decisions to keep the Deputies safe.

Can it possibly get any worse? I have a strange feeling the answer is YES!

I'll take a stab at responding to the questions.

1. I'm sure the SOP took effect when published.

2. The SOP is a Sheriff's Office rule. It is designed by lawyers to protect the Sheriff's Office if an off duty deputy uses a firearm, by being able to demonstrate in court that the office had taken measures to assure that the off duty deputy was skilled in the use of an approved firearm.

Having a concealed weapons license has no bearing on this issue. If you rely upon your legal right to carry some other firearm under the provisions of the license you are nonetheless in violation of the SOP and can be disciplined for the violation.

Don't confuse law and rules. You wouldn't be prosecuted under the law but you could be disciplined under the rule.

3. The amendment that you refer to is the Second Amendment. The SOP does not cancel your "right to keep and bear arms," it just specifies what firearm you can carry.

When you accepted the position of deputy you tacitly relinquished some elements of your constitutional rights. For example, your right First Amendment free speech is limited in regard to ethnic slurs. A citizen on the street can call people vile names and not be disciplined. You can not.

4. I have no idea.

5. Of course it is. That is not a concern of the lawyers. See answer number two.

6. Ask the Rangemaster.

7. Probably not. Ask the Rangemaster.

8. You aren't required to participate in this activity. Why would it be paid duty time?

9. See answer number two.

10. The question you didn't ask is "What will happen to me if I carry an unapproved firearm?"

The ramifications can be great if you ever have to use it. If you intervene in a crime, or even use it in self-defense, there are dozens of things that might go wrong which could lead to lawsuits.

a. Accidentally hit a bystander and the failure to meet the SOP may be blamed because you neglected to qualify and you may be held negligent.
b. Your pistol could misfire and you might fail to rescue a victim, leaving you at fault for not having an inspected and approved weapon.
c. Using a smaller caliber may result in failing to stop the felon even if you hit him, leaving him able to harm someone which might not have happened if you used a .40 caliber. This could leave you at risk for a lawsuit.

You get the idea................

:shock:

OMG dude! Yeah and just maybe, you might miss and hit a nearby nuclear power reactor and cause a MELTDOWN! Even worse, you might drop the gun on somebodys foot, which results in a broken toe and accidental discharge, with the round hitting and killing a endangered Florida panther. Based upon your deathly fears of being sued for every possible thing that could go wrong, you must be new and recently graduated the new HCSO academy, where all recruits spend more time being taught all the fears of lawsuits, then actually learning police work........... ops:

No problem at all Sheriff. I will no longer carry any firearm off duty thanks to this new SOP. I will now just walk away and not intervene in any potentially violent situation I witness on the street when off duty. In essence, you are damned if you do and damned if you don't after reading this new ridiculous policy. Between the unbelievably large credentials wallet with mickey mouse sized badge that doesn't fit into most pants pockets, to the latest issuing of the large Glock 22 and the accompanying unrealisticly updated off duty carry policy........I will be leaving everything at home. When something happens and questions begin to get asked why a Hillsborough Deputy did not take action off duty, I will be sadly covered by another one of the offices anti-law enforcement policies. Why do I feel that many of these changes are being based on how the Feds do things and specific leaders that want to run the office just like a private corporation, which I believe was also mentioned in one of the above posts. Once again, criminals & private citizens with concealed weapon permits have much less restrictions on carrying a firearm on their person then Hillsborough Sheriff Deputies do...... :shock:

All I can say is, this office never used to be like this. It used to be a LEO friendly place to work, where leadership at most levels still cared for the troops and made common sense decisions to keep the Deputies safe.

Can it possibly get any worse? I have a strange feeling the answer is YES!

Hate to burst your bubble, but your plan of defiance won't work. You are mandated by SOP to carry your credentials all the time. You are mandated to carry a firearm all the time unless you are engaged in specifically defined activities.

If you are required tobe armed, and required to carry a specific weapon, then I believe the sheriff should buy all of us off-duty holsters to go with the gun. I haven't seen the SOP, I've been on vacation. Could someone give me a short synopsis with types of aproved weapons.

I'll take a stab at responding to the questions.

1. I'm sure the SOP took effect when published.

2. The SOP is a Sheriff's Office rule. It is designed by lawyers to protect the Sheriff's Office if an off duty deputy uses a firearm, by being able to demonstrate in court that the office had taken measures to assure that the off duty deputy was skilled in the use of an approved firearm.

Having a concealed weapons license has no bearing on this issue. If you rely upon your legal right to carry some other firearm under the provisions of the license you are nonetheless in violation of the SOP and can be disciplined for the violation.

Don't confuse law and rules. You wouldn't be prosecuted under the law but you could be disciplined under the rule.

3. The amendment that you refer to is the Second Amendment. The SOP does not cancel your "right to keep and bear arms," it just specifies what firearm you can carry.

When you accepted the position of deputy you tacitly relinquished some elements of your constitutional rights. For example, your right First Amendment free speech is limited in regard to ethnic slurs. A citizen on the street can call people vile names and not be disciplined. You can not.

4. I have no idea.

5. Of course it is. That is not a concern of the lawyers. See answer number two.

6. Ask the Rangemaster.

7. Probably not. Ask the Rangemaster.

8. You aren't required to participate in this activity. Why would it be paid duty time?

9. See answer number two.

10. The question you didn't ask is "What will happen to me if I carry an unapproved firearm?"

The ramifications can be great if you ever have to use it. If you intervene in a crime, or even use it in self-defense, there are dozens of things that might go wrong which could lead to lawsuits.

a. Accidentally hit a bystander and the failure to meet the SOP may be blamed because you neglected to qualify and you may be held negligent.
b. Your pistol could misfire and you might fail to rescue a victim, leaving you at fault for not having an inspected and approved weapon.
c. Using a smaller caliber may result in failing to stop the felon even if you hit him, leaving him able to harm someone which might not have happened if you used a .40 caliber. This could leave you at risk for a lawsuit.

You get the idea................

:shock:

OMG dude! Yeah and just maybe, you might miss and hit a nearby nuclear power reactor and cause a MELTDOWN! Even worse, you might drop the gun on somebodys foot, which results in a broken toe and accidental discharge, with the round hitting and killing a endangered Florida panther. Based upon your deathly fears of being sued for every possible thing that could go wrong, you must be new and recently graduated the new HCSO academy, where all recruits spend more time being taught all the fears of lawsuits, then actually learning police work........... ops:

Hey, Dunce.

Those were examples of how LAWYERS would come after you. And having lawyers come after you is a genuine concern.

Personally, I carry a KelTec P3AT in compliance with my Florida CCW license and Hr-218.


_____________ :cop: :cop: :cop: _________


'

Dunce must be the newbie. He doesn't seem to know that Cruel Truth has been posting on leoaffairs for over 10 years.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: