FRS proposals to Florida legislature are here

Click here to read the proposals that are being made by "Florida TaxWatch" to the Florida legislature to abolish or significantly change the FRS pension system:
http://www.floridataxwatch.org/resou...82010GCTSF.pdf

Florida TaxWatch
106 N. Bronough Street
Tallahassee, FL 32301
http://www.FloridaTaxWatch.org
Phone: (850) 222-5052
Fax: (850) 222-7476

The rumors about gutting Florida's pension system are true. At this juncture, these are just proposals or recommendations to the legislature. Here are some interesting points from the PDF file:

• Eliminate FRS Pension Plan and Switch to 401k: Florida’s defined contribution plan (401k) is an option for state and local government employees in the FRS and removes the state’s obligation from paying retirement benefits. Switching all FRS members to a defined contribution plan (401k) and eliminating the defined benefit plan (pension) would save the state funds as contributions would no longer be determined by the necessary amount needed to cover future pension payments. Most private companies only offer defined contribution retirement options (401k). Two states, Nebraska and West Virginia, completely abandoned their defined contribution plans (pensions).
  Defined Benefit = Pension PLan
  Defined Contribution = 401K Plan
  . [/*:m:2edx3ogb]
• Require FRS Employee Contributions of 5%: Modifying the FRS pension fund to require newly hired employees to contribute to their DB (pension) or DC (401k) plans would dramatically reduce government contribution requirements. Most other state-sponsored defined benefit programs require an employee match, with the average amount being 5% of the employee’s average salary. The legislature should require that all active FRS members contribute at least of half of their employers current contributions to their respective retirement plans.
  . [/*:m:2edx3ogb]
• Change High 5 Years to Total Years of Service: The average final compensation AFC (average of highest 5 years) is current used to determine the final benefit, including overtime and up to 500 hours of accrued annual leave. Removing all non-base salary earnings from the final benefit calculation could result in cost-savings. Increasing the number of years used in calculating the AFC or using the lifetime average salary in calculating the final benefits is an additional measure that can save taxpayer dollars. Most private pensions use lifetime average salaries when calculating payable pension benefits.
  . [/*:m:2edx3ogb]
• Lower High Risk from 3% to 2%: “Regular” class members have accrual rates of 1.6%, judges get 3.33%, other elected officials get 3.00% and “Special Risk” class members get 3.00%. A cost-savings recommendation proposes a consolidation of employees into two categories: 1.6% and 2.00%. Employees who are members of the regular, elected and senior management classes would get 1.6% (Category I) and special risk would get 2.00%. This recommendation would return to the employee class structure that was present during the formation of the FRS.
  . [/*:m:2edx3ogb]
• Increase Retirement Age by 3 Years: Regular, Senior Management and Elected Officers can retire at the age of 62 or with 30 years of service. The state could increase the normal retirement age from 62 to 65 and increase the minimum years for retiring from 30 to 33 years. Special Risk can retire at the age of 55 or with 25 years of service. The state could increase the retirement age from 55 to 58 and increase the years of service for retirement from 25 to 28 years. Recommendation: The legislature should increase the retirement age (and required years of service) by three years for all employee classes in the FRS.
  . [/*:m:2edx3ogb]
• Eliminate Health Subsidy: Eliminate Health Insurance Subsidy for FRS members.
  . [/*:m:2edx3ogb]
• Eliminate Drop: Reform or eliminate DROP and reduce rate from 6.5% to 3.0%. Require Governor’s approval to rehire individuals who have completed DROP.
  . [/*:m:2edx3ogb]
• Limit Special Risk to LEO, CO & Fire: Limit Special Risk class membership to law enforcement, firefighters, and corrections. Eliminate the others e.g. crime lab technicians, etc. [/*:m:2edx3ogb]

Here are the companies that are sponsoring these proposals to change or eliminate your defined benefit pension plan:

The Work of the Government Cost Savings Task Force for FY2011-12 has been made possible through the generous philanthropic support of the following sponsors:

State Farm Companies and State Farm Companies
AT&T
Capital Health Plans
Communications International, Inc.
David A. Smith
Dominic & Debbie Calabro
Marble Medical
Nextera
The Pew Charitable Trust
Publix Super Markets Charities
Verizon Foundation

Excellent review of the proposal.

Thanks.

Say it with me now,

"M A S S - - - E X O D U S"



Seriously. If we only get 2% per year, how many of us would continue to put up with all that we do? We would be insane to do so. The state MIGHT be able to survive making new hires contribute 5%, but if they drop the 3% to 2%, there are going to be a lot of experienced people leaving all at once. Who's going to answer calls for service?

Not even speaking about the possible loss of life, limb, etc.......with the current culture at HCSO (alone), who would continue to put up with the ShiiT we face from our own superviosrs....for 2% a year? Any takes?

If this goes through, it might be a blessing in disguise, because a lot more deputies will suddenly have a lot less stess in their lives.

Say it with me now,

"M A S S - - - E X O D U S"



Seriously. If we only get 2% per year, how many of us would continue to put up with all that we do? We would be insane to do so. The state MIGHT be able to survive making new hires contribute 5%, but if they drop the 3% to 2%, there are going to be a lot of experienced people leaving all at once. Who's going to answer calls for service?

Not even speaking about the possible loss of life, limb, etc.......with the current culture at HCSO (alone), who would continue to put up with the ShiiT we face from our own superviosrs....for 2% a year? Any takes?

If this goes through, it might be a blessing in disguise, because a lot more deputies will suddenly have a lot less stess in their lives.

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT! What used to be a exciting, dynamic and family oriented place to work for SWORN deputies has rned into a complete NIGHTMARE! HCSO has several hundred deputies ready to leave right his minute, so any outside influences like the above proposed changes to the pension system is all it would take to OPEN THE FLOOD GATES toward immediate retirement. You would also see many others who came into this career for the benefits walk out as well. As for me, I wouldn't stay around 1 more minute if a couple of the mentioned changes go through. Why would anyone in their right mind put up with the current TYRANTS running HCSO if the end result is not basically a "Pot of Gold"? OMG.....the warehouse better increase their personnel & work hours because I forsee a long line at the front door turning equipment back in! :shock:

It's also very much a bunch of B.S. that you have nothing but "Private Company" people, sitting in their leather chairs and drinking coffee, who are deciding the possible pension & benefit cuts of the States High Risk Government workers? Does it not surprise you that since some at HCSO have begun to run the office like a private company, worker dissatisfaction & morale have hit rock bottom? This is absolutely the reason why HCSO desperately needs an ex-military leader to take over running the office ASAP!

[The Nitely Blog]

First off. As far as the leadership at the top in the HCSO goes you might as well reside to the fact that it is not going to change anytime in the near future. The Sheriff as well as Number 2 ain't going anywhere for a long while. It is what it is.

Second. As far as the Florida Retirement System goes there will be some changes. As to what those changes are going to be who knows. I do believe as pointed out by one of the posters above that if there are drastic changes there will be a mass exodus of retirement eligible folks hitting the door all at once. Not just here at the HCSO but statewide. That could seriously jeopardise the publics safety in my opinion.

Due to the poor economy our office as well as other law enforcement agencies have hired people over the last few years that are here mainly for a paycheck. They saw this job as a way to get paid a decent wage during a time when the private industry is full of uncertainty, low pay and the fear of layoff's. When, not if but when, the economy picks back up one day people will look away from the law enforcement profession if the benefits are gutted over the next few years.

I unfortunately am stuck. I'm at that good ole age where I'm to old for private industry to hire. I would love to retire now but I have a few more years to go and thats if they don't raise the retirement years and age.

If they do gut the retirement system my guess would be that young deputies with just a few years on will take their money and leave before they are even vested. Remember what recently happened in St. Pete. Officers that paid into their pension fund and left before they were vested won a court case which stated that the city had to pay them back the money they paid in. The state could be forced to do the same thing.

It could get uglier around here folks.

If they gut the retirment system, hundreds of deputies will refuse to continue to put up with the bullshiit they get from HCSO. It's not worth putting your life on the line AND HCSO's bullshiit for 2% per year.

Exit strategy:

First, don’t tell anyone you plan on retiring.

Second, you want to use up all your sick time. You wont get paid for any of it over 480 hours anyway, for those on A plan. For those on B plan you wont get paid for ANY unused sick time. Might as well use it and get paid. It wouldn’t take much to get a doctor to give you a note stating that the stress of this job has taken its toll and you need a few months to recover.

Third use up all of you comp, vacation, holiday time. This is important because when they figure out what you are up to, they will try and fire you with time still on the books, which means you might not get it, for not being in “good standing".

Third, when the time comes that you are out of sick, vacation, comp, holiday, etc, time ……. Make them fire you. That way you can collect unemployment for a long time! (Finally we can truthfully say THANK YOU OBAMA)

Also you might want to speak with an attorney specializing in labor law. If you substantiate a valid sexual harassment or whistle blower accusation, you could possibly come away with a bunch of money.


Remember, all of this is ONLY after you have decided it is time to go. If you haven’t made that decision then try these things, you will be out of a job anyway.


If the FRS multiplier gets dropped to 2% per yer, imagine hundreds of deputies doing this all at the same time here, and 10s of thousands doing this at the same time across the state.

No matter how much most of us hate the way this office is currently being run and the importance it has placed on being able to "Run Fast", abandoning our positions to abuse leave accruals is not fair to the good people that are left at the office (yes there are a few good cops left). This does not account for those who walk out & retire if the pension plan gets messed with, cause I would do the same thing and would not blame anyone one bit.

With the current state of morale, combined with the very poor working conditions & management presently at HCSO, I cannot ever remember a time in the past when tensions were so high and so many deputies were ready to just quit. What seems to be the most baffling over this whole thing, is that current management does not seem to even care, or at least try to reach out to everyone in some form of communication. This administrations lack of communication and appearance of just not caring, is what will unfortunately be the single thing most will remember about this admins term in charge. How sad when if you look back there was so much hope & optimism present during the political election campaign. Once again, we see first hand why so many people are disgusted with politics in this country.

I would really propose that you new guys put at least 100-200 per paycheck into Hartford or a similar investment plan, in the safest investment category. Do it now while you are young and not anchored down with kids, a spouse and all the debt that it causes. If you do it now you won’t miss the money coming out of your paycheck and 30 years from now you will have a nice nest egg despite what the FRS changes are. Also remember, the FRS has been screwed with before and was retroactively fixed by Jeb Bush. Jeb saved me thousands of dollars when he changed high risk back to 3% and made it retroactive. Rick Scott is a jerk who wants to blame the grunts who worked in the trenches for all these years when it is the people on his level that screwed things up. I am lucky in that I am out and collecting $$ that Rick cannot touch. You youngsters need to invest now in order to be independent of the politics and cicil service jealousy that is now taking place.