Let's Go To Impasse

Bs smart and realize that all great contract benefits evolved over several contracts. If you get a 5 year DROP with some restrictions take it and look to get rid of the restrictions next contract. Open the door on Off-Duty counting now and improve the benefit in future contracts. The ones who will win are those that will be here in future years. Think smart and long-term.

This is a fact. The economic loss to the Cleveland area is over $200 million. That translates to an economic impact of at least that amount to our entire area. This was proven by our own MAYOR BOWWOW giving KING JAMES a key to our city. Our city knows the economic value with hotels,restaurants,clubs,parking, parking tickets,Ocean Dr,Lincoln Road,etc is worth at least 25% or 50 million to our city. Was this fact even used in negotiations? Was there already a first reading by the "city" before the vote to the membership was passed? Does something held to my nosey not smelling rosey?

Bs smart and realize that all great contract benefits evolved over several contracts. If you get a 5 year DROP with some restrictions take it and look to get rid of the restrictions next contract. Open the door on Off-Duty counting now and improve the benefit in future contracts. The ones who will win are those that will be here in future years. Think smart and long-term.

Be smart and realize that whatever benefits they are promising us now they will take away from us later, that is if you think the off duty and drop provisions are benefits. Paying into the pension for off duty is just another way for the city to steal money from us. Don't you guys get it? There is no benefit to us other than contributing more money disporpotionally than the fire department. We will be funding the pension for the fire department who already has bargained for way better benefits the last two contracts. Adonis is a genius who has done great work for his union in securing the benefits on this and the previous contract. You cannot begin to compare what fire has gotten compared to what we have. It is night and day. And all we do is sit around and say "what happenned to me to?"
The drop proposal is a joke. Think of what you will lose over a lifetime by losing out on the COLA. And it will be even worse if you decide not to do all five years!
Learn your lessons from past mistakes. Stand up with guts and b*lls and JUST SAY NO!

Impasse is no bed of roses.
We are dealing with politicians. Don't forget that. These are people who NEED to get reelected.

Get your facts straight and do not use scare tactics. Impasse has nothing to do with politicians or reelections. Impasse is an a person, independent of the City and with no ties to the City, who looks at the City's books and finances and past history and makes a ruling that is binding FOR ONLY ONE YEAR. The way I understand it, that one year ruling would expire on SEPTEMBER 30, 2010, THIS YEAR!!!!!! After that, the union and the City would meet again and try to hash out another agreement. The good thing about it as one poster said is that the City would have to come clean, under oath. They would not be able to lie, hide, or otherwise distort the figures. You do not have much to lose and possibly a lot to gain. In October, we would begin negotiations again hopefully with a more knowledgeable team of negotiating professionals. We are getting screwed if you vote yes for this contract. There is nothing good about it. What happened to getting what fire got? What happened to bringing back FTO pay, SEVERT, instructor pay? It is all a negative. The city manager and Adonis have the champagne on ice waiting for us to say yes so they can celebrate. Be smart, be different. Vote no. Don't vote yes and kick yourself in the arse later when you realize the mistake you made. Then you'll be so embarrassed and feel so stupid that you'll walk around telling everyone that you were one of the ones that voted no.

What happened to getting what fire got? What happened to bringing back FTO pay, SEVERT, instructor pay? It is all a negative.

GREAT QUESTIONS. NOW CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER? WHY HAS FIRE DONE SO MUCH BETTER THAN US IN THE LAST TWO CONTRACT? WHY DOES FIRE MAKE BETWEEN 10,000 AND 15,000 MORE PER YEAR ON THEIR PENSION AT ANY RANK? WHY DO THEY STILL HAVE ALL THEIR INCENTIVES WHEN WE LOST ALL OF OUR? I DONT WANT TO TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM THEM. KUDOS TO THEM FOR GREAT NEGOTIATING SKILLS. I JUST WANT THE SAME. SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER.

This latest proposal is worse than the first ones we got. We have actually gone backwards since we all stood together and boycotted the Super Bowl off duty. Lets go to impass and make the special master have the city come clean once and for all. I agree that we have nothing to lose and may actually come out way ahead. It is worth a try. We are looking to lose 5% off our salary and 10% off our off duty since we boycotted the super bowl. Wake up and vote no. I think you will regret it if you don't. Those of us with years to go here need to send a strong message now that we are not stupid and won't fall victim to the city's scare tactics. How can you even consider voting yes!

GIVE ME PARITY WITH FIRE, GET RID OF THE OFF DUTY BS OR REMOVE THE PENSION CAP, KEEP THE COLA ON ALL FIVE YEARS OF THE DROP AND I WILL VOTE YES. OTHERWISE IT IS THE BIG N O.

I agree!

The way I understand it...

Therein lies the conundrum...you don't understand it.

This is a fact. The economic loss to the Cleveland area is over $200 million. That translates to an economic impact of at least that amount to our entire area. This was proven by our own MAYOR BOWWOW giving KING JAMES a key to our city. Our city knows the economic value with hotels,restaurants,clubs,parking, parking tickets,Ocean Dr,Lincoln Road,etc is worth at least 25% or 50 million to our city. Was this fact even used in negotiations? Was there already a first reading by the "city" before the vote to the membership was passed? Does something held to my nosey not smelling rosey?

Really? Let's go back to remedial civics. The city's revenue is derrived from property taxes, not Miami Heat souvenirs. When was the last time you spent a night at a Miami Beach hotel after a Tuesday Heat game? Economic impact has nothing to do with government revenue. In case you forgot, we also had Shaq and an NBA championship a few years ago. Lebron will cause the arena to sell out and we MAY get some ancillary parking revenue after SOME games, but hotels and restaurants do not pay the city based on how well they do, they pay PROPERTY TAXES and LIQUOR LICENCES. A good economy benefits everyone in the area, but you are crazy to think that Miami Beach government will see $50 Million in their pocket. Let's stay focused please.

I agree with you. Anyone who thinks these benefits will last thoughout their career is nuts. Just becuase the city says you have a five year drop does not mean they will not try to negotiate it out next contract. They will. The off duty thing is the sneakiest thing I have ever heard of. You really want me to give you 10% more of my earnings? The city already makes 33 cents for every dollar I make. Now you want to make it 43 cents? We will be unfairly funding the Police AND FIRE pension as they hardly work off duty. They already got a much better deal on their tentative agreement. Why didn't we bargain for the same things they did? What happened to the "ME TOO" that the last clown bargained away? The manager and the fire president have taken care of each other and we are floundering in lala land. We already lost FTO, SEVRT, and instructor pay that add up to 12.5 % while fire kept it all. Lets send a strong message to the city that we are not interested. Those of us with long careers left to go will suffer greatly if this contract passes. Lets vote no, go to impasse, and bring in a professional group of negotiators to bargain for us. Remember, we sacrificed during the super bowl and lost over several hundred thousand dollars as a union in missed overtime and off duty oportunities. For this prposed contract? I don't think so!

Oh, where to begin??? Let's start with your math. You said, "the city already makes 33 cents for every dollar I make. Now you want to make it 43 cents?" First of all, they are not taking money out of your pocket, they charge an "administrative fee" for their incremental costs associated with you working that job. The city uses it to pay incremental costs for gas, the people and items at fleet used for maintenance on your car, your equipment, your dispatchers, the people in the off-duty office, payroll, and finance who collect money, deposit checks, enter payments into your check and keep records, the software and computers used to ensure that everything gets done and direct deposits money into your account, IT people to service those computers, financial analysts and accountants to make sure that a general ledger is maintained and that IRS compliance is kept, the phone system and personnel to ensure that someone looking to hire off-duty has a phone number to call, office and printing supplies to make sure you have a slip to fill out and that records are maintained, filing cabinets to keep it all organized, offices in the police building and city hall for all those people to work out of, light bulbs, electricity, a/c, water, bathrooms, etc. for everyone, publicity and economic development to draw vendors to the city who would need to hire off-duty to begin with, health and liability insurance, I can go on and on. When you factor in all the little things that go into allowing you to work your job, it's not fair that you complain that the city charges an administrative fee for everything that goes on behind the scenes.

You make $30 an hour for off duty. The proposal is that the rate would go up to $33-$35 an hour and you would pay 10%, or $3.30-$3.50 an hour which would be credited to YOU as money earned to increase YOUR pension payout. The net effect to you would be that depending on the final off-duty rate, your take-home pay would go from $29.70 an hour to $31.50 an hour. So you MAY end up making MORE for off-duty and it would be PENSIONABLE! It is exactly like working OT...you get paid $50 an hour for working OT, you pay 10% ($5.00)of that into the pension, and you earn $50 as credit in your highest years. NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL FROM OT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So if your argument is sound, then we should immediately exclude ALL OT from being pensionable also. Right? The important part is not the 10%, the important part is that off duty will be PENSIONABLE!!!!!!

Then, you say that we lost FTO, SEVRT, and Instructor pay. Um, we only lost SEVRT. Instructor pay and FTO pay are IN THE CONTRACT. Losing SEVERT only means there will be more OT available to YOU, and not a select few.

Please consider who is posting on these message boards and get informed. Don't let your emotions cause you to go crazy. Talk to someone on both sides before jumping to conclusions.