11.5 Hour Shifts

Has your union and administration addressed this type of vote? I don't know what the margin was, but the officer on the perimeter said it was pretty close. Sounds like if just road patrol or those that would HAVE to work 12 hour shifts would have had more no than yes votes. Don't say your union allowed that to be the only vote and running with it. That is such a skewed vote and would be very unfair to anyone who voted no.

I said it before and I'll admit it. I wanted it when we were going to it. But it wasn't long before pretty much everyone couldn't take it. I know some of the neighboring BSO cities are complaining about it too. At least you guys got to vote. Too bad it wasn't a accurate vote or you could have saved yourself a lot of aggravation. The math was simple here after we did it for awhile. The majority that wanted it, didn't anymore and those that didn't want it, still didn't.

Hang in there

they tried the same tactic with us to benefit the town not you guys....impass is a year or two in the making so why rush to pass a vote that doesnt help you? i say stay strong, support your union members for the betterment of eachother not a select few who dont have to suffer thru 11.5 which easily become 12.5 cuz of late calls stay strong

The results of another vote would be the same, we still want it so just accept it. Repeating the vote over and over until you get the result you want won't happen. To bad you can't go to another department that still has 8's because like everything else we are the last to go.

Im going to vote YES! However my vote wouldnt be until Jan 2010. 5 years means 5 years... cant cheat your way out of this one! :devil:

Whats not accurate?
At any point you may find yourself back on the road
I for one am in a specialized unit and voted No because of that fact
As a union, you cant have votes for specific issues for each member
Its all or none

Has your union and administration addressed this type of vote? I don't know what the margin was, but the officer on the perimeter said it was pretty close. Sounds like if just road patrol or those that would HAVE to work 12 hour shifts would have had more no than yes votes. Don't say your union allowed that to be the only vote and running with it. That is such a skewed vote and would be very unfair to anyone who voted no.

I said it before and I'll admit it. I wanted it when we were going to it. But it wasn't long before pretty much everyone couldn't take it. I know some of the neighboring BSO cities are complaining about it too. At least you guys got to vote. Too bad it wasn't a accurate vote or you could have saved yourself a lot of aggravation. The math was simple here after we did it for awhile. The majority that wanted it, didn't anymore and those that didn't want it, still didn't.

Hang in there

Whats not accurate?
As a union, you cant have votes for specific issues for each member
Its all or none

Voting as a Union is not a issue. Voting on a proposal for 11.5 hour days or 8 hour days is not a issue. It isn't "all or none" when a option is being given to a select few, those in specialized units, that at the unit commanders discretion, were told they may work 10 hour days.

Fact is, it doesn't matter whether you voted yes or no. If you want it, great, if not, great. What matters is, a good number of people voted yes because of the option that their specialized unit may work 10 hour shifts on a 4-3.

Hypothetically, I bet that a vote on a 10 hour or 8 hour shift would have a tremendously large "yes" vote for 10 hours. Then it's "all or none."

Whats not accurate?
As a union, you cant have votes for specific issues for each member
Its all or none

Voting as a Union is not a issue. Voting on a proposal for 11.5 hour days or 8 hour days is not a issue. It isn't "all or none" when a option is being given to a select few, those in specialized units, that at the unit commanders discretion, were told they may work 10 hour days.

Fact is, it doesn't matter whether you voted yes or no. If you want it, great, if not, great. What matters is, a good number of people voted yes because of the option that their specialized unit may work 10 hour shifts on a 4-3.

Hypothetically, I bet that a vote on a 10 hour or 8 hour shift would have a tremendously large "yes" vote for 10 hours. Then it's "all or none."

Very well put.. it was a "road issue", not a specialized unit issue.

Many of you know me and that my 10-12 is an SRO with you guys. I wanted to give you some insight as to what caused our situation with the 12's. I happened to be on our union exec. board at the time of our last contract and was privy to the actual negotiations. We were told during closed door sessions that we would be going to a 12 hour shift weather we liked it or not (as spelled out as "management rights"). Previously being at Hallandale and well versed in the 12 hour shifts, I was adamantly against it. I tried to relay to the membership, the terrible working conditions that would exist. There were several that listened, but others that only looked at the extra day off every other week the driving factor. To make matters worse, the Town required ONLY the road to work 12's and dangled the 19.8% raise over three years to the rest of the dept. (i.e. bureau, vin, traffic, etc)who would stay on 10's or 8's for the SRO's. So basically we had the entire dept. voting on 12's that only affected 80 officers and the rest were merely voting for a raise. Needless to say, after 1.5 yrs. we are back to 10's because the town didn't factor in the 4 hrs. of O.T. paid out bi-weekly to those working 12's. It as also negotiated that the only shifts we COULD work would be 12's or 10's (note: 8's were not an option).

Now nearly 2 years later, we are being called greedy by our mayor because we won't give up a raise that she was in on negotiating that originally put us on the 12 hour shift. Whatever the outcome of your negotiations, I wish you all the best of luck. I will tell you this however, the overwhelming of Davie patrol cops will never vote again for a 12 hour shift.

If I can be of any assistance, don't hesitate to call me, I'm sure you know how to get my 88. Good Luck & be safe

SD

This should be printed out and placed where everyone can see it and learn from it. Well, I doubt we will since we allowed specialized units to vote for 10 hour days. Oh, I mean 11.5 hour days for ROAD PATROL. Why do we always have to be the village idiots?

Many of you know me and that my 10-12 is an SRO with you guys. I wanted to give you some insight as to what caused our situation with the 12's. I happened to be on our union exec. board at the time of our last contract and was privy to the actual negotiations. We were told during closed door sessions that we would be going to a 12 hour shift weather we liked it or not (as spelled out as "management rights"). Previously being at Hallandale and well versed in the 12 hour shifts, I was adamantly against it. I tried to relay to the membership, the terrible working conditions that would exist. There were several that listened, but others that only looked at the extra day off every other week the driving factor. To make matters worse, the Town required ONLY the road to work 12's and dangled the 19.8% raise over three years to the rest of the dept. (i.e. bureau, vin, traffic, etc)who would stay on 10's or 8's for the SRO's. So basically we had the entire dept. voting on 12's that only affected 80 officers and the rest were merely voting for a raise. Needless to say, after 1.5 yrs. we are back to 10's because the town didn't factor in the 4 hrs. of O.T. paid out bi-weekly to those working 12's. It as also negotiated that the only shifts we COULD work would be 12's or 10's (note: 8's were not an option).

Now nearly 2 years later, we are being called greedy by our mayor because we won't give up a raise that she was in on negotiating that originally put us on the 12 hour shift. Whatever the outcome of your negotiations, I wish you all the best of luck. I will tell you this however, the overwhelming of Davie patrol cops will never vote again for a 12 hour shift.

If I can be of any assistance, don't hesitate to call me, I'm sure you know how to get my 88. Good Luck & be safe

SD

SD
I truly appreciate your insight into the alternate shift. You should well know that we CANT vote on any one part of a CBA individually just becuase of where you work at that moment in time. If that was the case, we would have to have a seperate vote on pension, wages, etc. Like Ive said before, members should of voted knowing that at one point in their career, they might have to go back to the road.
As far as your 19.8% raises, I know a large majority of our members will read this and say...How come they got that much and we didnt???? The truth is that if youre a toppped out officer, you will get 6% and if your still in the STEP program, you will receive almost 15% over the 3 years. Our city has already invoked the FLSA exemption so we will be working straight time for the 14 day pay period...ie: 80.5 hours for 11.5 shifts.
Yes, it is true that we conducted a straw vote to gauge the wishes of the membership as to this particular subject because the dream sheets we send out do not always tell the whole story of what each member wants.
What everyone needs to understand is that, yes, it is a management right issue to change the shifts but at this point our Admin wants to do what we want. Our city has never asked for this shift but is going foward with it because it is what we wanted as a Union. Our Admin has even gone as far to include in the CBA an opt out clause with a timeline if after it is implemented, we can switch back to 8 hour shifts.
I hope this helps makes our members understand what is on the table
JM

Many of you know me and that my 10-12 is an SRO with you guys. I wanted to give you some insight as to what caused our situation with the 12's. I happened to be on our union exec. board at the time of our last contract and was privy to the actual negotiations. We were told during closed door sessions that we would be going to a 12 hour shift weather we liked it or not (as spelled out as "management rights"). Previously being at Hallandale and well versed in the 12 hour shifts, I was adamantly against it. I tried to relay to the membership, the terrible working conditions that would exist. There were several that listened, but others that only looked at the extra day off every other week the driving factor. To make matters worse, the Town required ONLY the road to work 12's and dangled the 19.8% raise over three years to the rest of the dept. (i.e. bureau, vin, traffic, etc)who would stay on 10's or 8's for the SRO's. So basically we had the entire dept. voting on 12's that only affected 80 officers and the rest were merely voting for a raise. Needless to say, after 1.5 yrs. we are back to 10's because the town didn't factor in the 4 hrs. of O.T. paid out bi-weekly to those working 12's. It as also negotiated that the only shifts we COULD work would be 12's or 10's (note: 8's were not an option).

Now nearly 2 years later, we are being called greedy by our mayor because we won't give up a raise that she was in on negotiating that originally put us on the 12 hour shift. Whatever the outcome of your negotiations, I wish you all the best of luck. I will tell you this however, the overwhelming of Davie patrol cops will never vote again for a 12 hour shift.

If I can be of any assistance, don't hesitate to call me, I'm sure you know how to get my 88. Good Luck & be safe

SD

JM is correct about the voting and union stance. You can't have separate votes on issues or that would open pandoras box.

However, why did we even vote? We knew it would be a lopsided vote. I mean come on, vote knowing that one day "you might" be back on the road. We have people in specialized units from 10, 15+ years now. People who went in a few years ago, if they decide to remain in, will probably be there for a looooonnnnnggggg time. That is another issue, but we can't gauge a vote based on "might be" back on the road.

We should have listened in the hallways to what the road patrol officers were saying. Yes, many were saying yes. But we clearly dropped the ball when we involved a vote of the body which included specialized units that knew they would have the option to work 10 hour days.

The sadest part of it all, it's typical here. And to top it off, some that initially have said yes to 11.5 are wishing they haven't. Maybe some that voted no want it now. Just not hearing that through the halls. Only thing through the halls is low morale.