in-service

You guys amaze me! Yes, there have been some injuries. It happens. My kids have had worse injuries from playing football!

Do you think for one second the bad guys are going to care if they're hurting you? The academy didn't teach you in Cop 101...? The bad guys mean to hurt you. What good is your easy training going to be when your backup is two counties away in another park and the SO is too busy to come to you?

If you're too old to do the job & stay up to date on the training that comes along with it, that makes you a liability. Maybe it's time to consider retirement. If you're just too out of shape to handle it, well, there's nothing we can do to get you off your ass to change that, now is there?

[NO CRY BABIES]

You guys amaze me! Yes, there have been some injuries. It happens. My kids have had worse injuries from playing football!

Do you think for one second the bad guys are going to care if they're hurting you? The academy didn't teach you in Cop 101...? The bad guys mean to hurt you. What good is your easy training going to be when your backup is two counties away in another park and the SO is too busy to come to you?

If you're too old to do the job & stay up to date on the training that comes along with it, that makes you a liability. Maybe it's time to consider retirement. If you're just too out of shape to handle it, well, there's nothing we can do to get you off your ass to change that, now is there?

Well said Friend!

You guys amaze me! Yes, there have been some injuries. It happens. My kids have had worse injuries from playing football!

Do you think for one second the bad guys are going to care if they're hurting you? The academy didn't teach you in Cop 101...? The bad guys mean to hurt you. What good is your easy training going to be when your backup is two counties away in another park and the SO is too busy to come to you?

If you're too old to do the job & stay up to date on the training that comes along with it, that makes you a liability. Maybe it's time to consider retirement. If you're just too out of shape to handle it, well, there's nothing we can do to get you off your ass to change that, now is there?

Man, you arrogant JA's sure do have alot to say. My experience as a real law enforcement officer makes you know-it-all's look like Paul Blart. It is obvious that you train in the same sloppy, undisciplined manner as what we are experiencing, which results in UNNECESSARY injuries. The idea is to train, not injure. There is nothing wrong with hands on training, I have had in-service training, including DT training, for the past 30 years. I have never once in 30 years complained about the quality of my DT training. I am also very pleased to say that even for someone my age I think I am in excellent shape. I am experienced enough to know when a reassessment of a training program needs to be done. This is that time.

The training I have received in my career has been excellent, instructed by professionals in a controlled environment. It has kept me alive during the three shootings I have been in, and kept me alive when fighting guys three times my size on PCP was a weekly event. So don't give me this crap about not knowing what I am talking about, this is about professional training standards.

So if you are running your program in such a manner where you feel that a high number of injuries is acceptable in a training environment then you are a liabilty to your agency and need to get out of the training field. As a supervisor I always told my young guys slow down, you can't help anyone if you don't make to the scene safely. Well that goes for training too, if my officers are not working because of avoidable injuries then they are not helping anyone.

You guys amaze me! Yes, there have been some injuries. It happens. My kids have had worse injuries from playing football!

Do you think for one second the bad guys are going to care if they're hurting you? The academy didn't teach you in Cop 101...? The bad guys mean to hurt you. What good is your easy training going to be when your backup is two counties away in another park and the SO is too busy to come to you?

If you're too old to do the job & stay up to date on the training that comes along with it, that makes you a liability. Maybe it's time to consider retirement. If you're just too out of shape to handle it, well, there's nothing we can do to get you off your ass to change that, now is there?

Man, you arrogant JA's sure do have alot to say. My experience as a real law enforcement officer makes you know-it-all's look like Paul Blart. It is obvious that you train in the same sloppy, undisciplined manner as what we are experiencing, which results in UNNECESSARY injuries. The idea is to train, not injure. There is nothing wrong with hands on training, I have had in-service training, including DT training, for the past 30 years. I have never once in 30 years complained about the quality of my DT training. I am also very pleased to say that even for someone my age I think I am in excellent shape. I am experienced enough to know when a reassessment of a training program needs to be done. This is that time.

The training I have received in my career has been excellent, instructed by professionals in a controlled environment. It has kept me alive during the three shootings I have been in, and kept me alive when fighting guys three times my size on PCP was a weekly event. So don't give me this crap about not knowing what I am talking about, this is about professional training standards.

So if you are running your program in such a manner where you feel that a high number of injuries is acceptable in a training environment then you are a liabilty to your agency and need to get out of the training field. As a supervisor I always told my young guys slow down, you can't help anyone if you don't make to the scene safely. Well that goes for training too, if my officers are not working because of avoidable injuries then they are not helping anyone.

Well said FMJ

You're right. No injuries are good. However, instead of listening to the idiots that have not even gone throught the training, ask those that have. Out of 75 people that have gone through the training. only one is a true injury. The other injury was a pre-existing injury that the individual did to himself because he would not follow instructions.
So, those cry babies, who little bruises that they got are injuries, boohoo. Get over it or go be a security guard. This agency is trying to be a professional service organization not a cry baby organization.
Oh, did I mention that out of all the critiques submitted to the instructors, only one had a negative comment. It's public record, ask for the stuff. For you babies, put up or shut up because we are tired of your crying!
For the rest of you,congratulations!

[NO CRY BABIES]

You guys amaze me! Yes, there have been some injuries. It happens. My kids have had worse injuries from playing football!

Do you think for one second the bad guys are going to care if they're hurting you? The academy didn't teach you in Cop 101...? The bad guys mean to hurt you. What good is your easy training going to be when your backup is two counties away in another park and the SO is too busy to come to you?

If you're too old to do the job & stay up to date on the training that comes along with it, that makes you a liability. Maybe it's time to consider retirement. If you're just too out of shape to handle it, well, there's nothing we can do to get you off your ass to change that, now is there?

Man, you arrogant JA's sure do have alot to say. My experience as a real law enforcement officer makes you know-it-all's look like Paul Blart. It is obvious that you train in the same sloppy, undisciplined manner as what we are experiencing, which results in UNNECESSARY injuries. The idea is to train, not injure. There is nothing wrong with hands on training, I have had in-service training, including DT training, for the past 30 years. I have never once in 30 years complained about the quality of my DT training. I am also very pleased to say that even for someone my age I think I am in excellent shape. I am experienced enough to know when a reassessment of a training program needs to be done. This is that time.

The training I have received in my career has been excellent, instructed by professionals in a controlled environment. It has kept me alive during the three shootings I have been in, and kept me alive when fighting guys three times my size on PCP was a weekly event. So don't give me this crap about not knowing what I am talking about, this is about professional training standards.

So if you are running your program in such a manner where you feel that a high number of injuries is acceptable in a training environment then you are a liabilty to your agency and need to get out of the training field. As a supervisor I always told my young guys slow down, you can't help anyone if you don't make to the scene safely. Well that goes for training too, if my officers are not working because of avoidable injuries then they are not helping anyone.

Not arrogant at all FMJ. Just a well experienced trainer that trains my officers, as well as officers all over the U.S and other countries, real world, first class training and tactics. I notice how you like to pat yourself on the back for things you have done in the PAST. I applaud you as well. However, as a trainer, I am not really impressed or concerned with what you have done in the past, but what you can do NOW! I don't claim to know it all but when it comes to training, it is painfully obvious I know a hell of a lot more about that than you ever will. I don't think a reassessment is really needed. I have been doing some checking of my own and talking with people I know that work with D.E.P. and even some that have attended the course. I was able to find out who the trainers are that every one is referring to and I have met them and they are good trainers. I think that the reassessments that need to be done is with the attitudes of the participants.

If you were such a good supervisor, then you should know how important training is and how important it is to make the training as real as possible. All professional training standards require that the training be as realistic as possible, as well as, the courts. If I do not train you in the most realistic manner possible and push you to the point of thinking you just can't do anymore, then I am a liability to my agency for not training you correctly. The real liability is with officers like yourself and the others on here that do nothing but complain and do everything they can to get out of the training. So again, the training has to be as realistic as possible. If not, you are setting yourself up for a lawsuit for lack of training, inadequate training, or training not relevant to the job. I have testified in all of the mentioned cases. Therefore, you and your officers need to suck it up and participate fully and stop complaining. If your trainers happen to read this, I will give them this suggestion. I do this when conducting in-service with my officers. Document EVERYTHING! Document the participation level or lack there of, attitudes of the participants, things said, etc., and place that documentation in their training file and keep a copy for yourselves. That way, when they get sued and they try and blame their training, pull out your lesson plans and all documentation as mentioned and send their butts up the river without a paddle.

I never said that a high number of injuries are acceptable. I said that with what we do in DT, injuries will occur from time to time and that they are unavoidable for the most part. My classes are run safely. I give you my rules and if you don't follow them, your history. I also start every session by asking, "Is there anyone who does not want to be here?" If anyone says yes, I send them packing right then and there because if they do not want to be there, I don't want them there because I know from experience, that their attitude and unwillingness to be there, causes them to be a safety hazard to themselves and other participants in the class. (I would recommend that your trainers do this as well and send those who don't want to be there packing and let them explain to their supervisor why they didn't do their REQUIRED in-service). I let my students know, whether it be in-service or an advanced and specialized class, that it will not be an easy class. That they will be very tired and sore. In my class you either perform or you fail. Plain and simple. If you follow my instructions and do what you are told, there is a 99% probability you will get through my class with NO INJURY! If you don't follow instructions or do something other than what you were told to do, an injury is likely. In my 20 years of teaching DT and with more than 15,000 hours logged on the mats teaching, this is what causes injuries.....doing something you were not instructed to do or modifying a technique and performing it wrong. If you would like, I can give you the data on all the other statistics I have on DT related injuries that I have compiled over the years. It includes injuries in relation to age, fitness level, and weight (over-weight). Oh, and if your officers get killed or get another officer killed because of their lack of dedication and lack of physical skills, that's not really helping either....is it!!!!

It is funny seeing all the upset Officers on here but then again. The DEP needs to re-evaluate the military national guard special forces wanna be so that he is not actually teaching tactics not endorsed by the agency or fdle standards.

As far as someone on here commenting on NO BACK UP. I think your sucking on some tree bark or something. Name to me one Sheriff's Office in the State of Florida that has ever said they would not respond they are too busy. NO matter what the busting your chops. Your still a cop and a Deputy Sheriff or any other LE agency would come with the calvary so please do not not make a junior officer feel they are all alone out there when full service agencies even have Range deputies in the woods anyway.

Whatever!!!! Drink much koolaid. Have you asked a bunch of Officers about the training staff or just the Tallahassee Click. Just curious.

You be safe on the mat, after 20 years I bet you are a seasoned wrestling vet, just curious, how many of those trainees have really tried to kill you. Thanks, I'll match your 20 years of BS with my 20 in the field. Love to see you in the field now, don't worry, I'll buy your diapers for when you crap your pants.

PS, no desert cammo pants and tan desert boots. Only uniforms and real gun belts, nothing blue or plastic. Please, don't forget you will need a radio.

Stay safe, I hear the infections from those mats can kill.

Not arrogant at all FMJ. Just a well experienced trainer that trains my officers, as well as officers all over the U.S and other countries, real world, first class training and tactics. I notice how you like to pat yourself on the back for things you have done in the PAST. I applaud you as well. However, as a trainer, I am not really impressed or concerned with what you have done in the past, but what you can do NOW! I don't claim to know it all but when it comes to training, it is painfully obvious I know a hell of a lot more about that than you ever will. I don't think a reassessment is really needed. I have been doing some checking of my own and talking with people I know that work with D.E.P. and even some that have attended the course. I was able to find out who the trainers are that every one is referring to and I have met them and they are good trainers. I think that the reassessments that need to be done is with the attitudes of the participants.

If you were such a good supervisor, then you should know how important training is and how important it is to make the training as real as possible. All professional training standards require that the training be as realistic as possible, as well as, the courts. If I do not train you in the most realistic manner possible and push you to the point of thinking you just can't do anymore, then I am a liability to my agency for not training you correctly. The real liability is with officers like yourself and the others on here that do nothing but complain and do everything they can to get out of the training. So again, the training has to be as realistic as possible. If not, you are setting yourself up for a lawsuit for lack of training, inadequate training, or training not relevant to the job. I have testified in all of the mentioned cases. Therefore, you and your officers need to suck it up and participate fully and stop complaining. If your trainers happen to read this, I will give them this suggestion. I do this when conducting in-service with my officers. Document EVERYTHING! Document the participation level or lack there of, attitudes of the participants, things said, etc., and place that documentation in their training file and keep a copy for yourselves. That way, when they get sued and they try and blame their training, pull out your lesson plans and all documentation as mentioned and send their butts up the river without a paddle.

I never said that a high number of injuries are acceptable. I said that with what we do in DT, injuries will occur from time to time and that they are unavoidable for the most part. My classes are run safely. I give you my rules and if you don't follow them, your history. I also start every session by asking, "Is there anyone who does not want to be here?" If anyone says yes, I send them packing right then and there because if they do not want to be there, I don't want them there because I know from experience, that their attitude and unwillingness to be there, causes them to be a safety hazard to themselves and other participants in the class. (I would recommend that your trainers do this as well and send those who don't want to be there packing and let them explain to their supervisor why they didn't do their REQUIRED in-service). I let my students know, whether it be in-service or an advanced and specialized class, that it will not be an easy class. That they will be very tired and sore. In my class you either perform or you fail. Plain and simple. If you follow my instructions and do what you are told, there is a 99% probability you will get through my class with NO INJURY! If you don't follow instructions or do something other than what you were told to do, an injury is likely. In my 20 years of teaching DT and with more than 15,000 hours logged on the mats teaching, this is what causes injuries.....doing something you were not instructed to do or modifying a technique and performing it wrong. If you would like, I can give you the data on all the other statistics I have on DT related injuries that I have compiled over the years. It includes injuries in relation to age, fitness level, and weight (over-weight). Oh, and if your officers get killed or get another officer killed because of their lack of dedication and lack of physical skills, that's not really helping either....is it!!!!

DEP = Don''t Expect Policework

Get hurt???? why did they give us guns???? you fight them you big brut, the only dirt I want on my hands is gunpowder. work smater not harder. :wink: