what happened?

Not so fast Candy! I wouldn't be so quick to call this discussion "b.s." It may not be favorably received by your ears and the ears of many others, but they are opinions and beliefs, whether valid or not. And, believe it or not, people do have a right to express those opinions and beliefs, particularly if they are governmental/public employees, and they are away from the workplace. Also, not entirely sure you're going to have a lot of control when this discussion stops or ceases to exist. Not sure if you've been in this business long enough to understand that these types of incidences weigh heavily on a department because of all of the external pressures and media worthiness. A lot of people are waiting, watching, and weighing in on this incident. My suggestion to you is that you should either stick to the sidelines with those waiting or watching, or, weigh in on the things that matter. It's commendable that you're standing by and supporting your colleague (and it should happen more often), but you've got to come up with some better material there big guy.

There has been a lot of discussion about making the statement, "I'm sorry." That kind of statement is, in all likelihood, immaterial and would probably not be admissible into litigation, if the statement were limited to just those two words. There are, however, a couple of policy and potential legal problems with making the statement that should be considered. First, PBSO has a General Order that precludes deputies from making any statements at scenes of accidents. That is because the statement could be construed as an "admission" and then we a potential problem in litigation. "I'm sorry" doesn't mean all that much legally, but it's the words that preceded or followed that two-word statement that is going to get us in potential trouble. Additionally, while a deputy is on-duty and acting within the scope of his/her duties, the employer, namely PBSO here, can control what you say and don't say. Since it's the perogative of this agency, that we say nothing at the scene of the accident, then that is exactly what that means, "nothing." With all of that said, Greg's statement that was recently released in the PB Post was excellent. For any of you who know him, professionally and/or personally, you know that it came straight from the heart and it was genuine in every sense of the word. I have been fortunate enough to know him for many years and I know he is a good person who was just trying to do his job the best that he could that night.

There was also much talk about "justice" being served here and that having to live with that horrible incident is not enough. A comparison was made between the cops and the bad guys, I guess in hopes that we would follow some flawed logic into believing that they were one in the same, without any distinction mentioned. That's a view or opinion that does not hold any water. First of all, where can a bad guy legally exceed the speed limit, drive on the wrong side of road, disregard traffic signals, and still be performing some "legal" job. Greg was performing his job, like many officers have done and continue to do, and while pursuing a criminal, engaged in criminal activity, we lost two beloved officers. Please show me the logic where any of that can be applied to a situation where it involves a bad guy, or anyone else outside of law enforcement for that matter. When was the last time someone you know went to work, and while performing their duties, two persons were killed as a result of an accident? It happens, but not very often. His actions of exceeding the speed limit were authorized (because no supervisor deemed it otherwise), so now it's just a matter of to what degree was he authorized. FSS 316.072 can provide a little assistance there. But, now we have to consider all of the other factors involving the other two deputies. It would be "unjust" to not consider their actions, as well, at precisely the same time that Greg is acting. People, we don't work in a vacuum. It's all placed into context, through real time analysis. Cannot keep each and every piece separate because that it not the way it happened on that night.

That's all. Just a brief thought.

I can't believe you have the audacity to write this rhetoric. I knew both very well; Donta was my zone partner for a year. I can say that they are both looking down on us and they are disgusted by the actions of people like you. We work in a contact sport, get ready for this...people sometimes get hurt. My family knows and accepts the fact that I may not come back. Greg was doing his job just like any one of us who work the streets catching bad guys. Bad things happen sometimes even to fellow brothers and heroes. I think I know who you are "big guy" and in many ways this agency and many others have far too many people like you. People like you have no clue about real police work or you have forgotten about it, you recite policy and procedure but really have no clue about what it means or how to interpret and apply it. You do nothing but stir the pot and disgrace all of us by bringing up this conspiracy bullsh!@. I know for a fact Greg has tried to make contact with the families SEVERAL TIMES through several of their really close friends. He has said many, many times "please let them know when they are ready I would like to sit down with them." So far no one has taken him up on this offer, and now that they have a lawyer it’s done.

Bottom line, Greg was doing his job, ( not doing anything different than any one of us ..or any REAL cop would have done that night) while in the course of his lawful duties (let me spell it out for you since you obviously do not do real police work Catching Bad Guys) which YOU obviously never knew or have forgotten about, a terrible tragedy happen.

All I heard from your pile of sh!@ post was Greg Greg Greg Greg. That is why I know you are not a real cop or have a clue about what it takes to be one. You sound like the media or one of the suspects on the street, what about the career felons that STOLE THE CAR IN THE FIRST PLACE?????????? Maybe you should maybe look at them instead of you fellow brother, after all , if it wasn't for them, you know the CAREER FELONS ,this would not have happen.

It was a terrible terrible, unfortunate tragedy that happen, which Greg is going to have to live with for every day of his life.

One more thing, how dare you talk down to Candy or any one else on here, at least Candy has the balls to put his name on the post....Where is yours "BIG GUY". If you really believe in the bullsh!@ that you have posted on here don't be ashamed, don't be scared and hide behind your key board.... post your name.

You are a scared little boy or girl who will not post with his or her real name. Please if you ever cared about any of us or about the agency stop the nonsense!!!!!!

James Barca

Barca, you should not bite off more than you there big guy.

Not sure you are sharp enough to understand that the earlier post was not a dig on candy, whoever that is. Must be another canine guy.

I didnt see it as a bad post. I kind of thought the post made some good points. You sure you not just taking things a little too personal? Sounds like, maybe, too much ego?

I and over 300 others are just sitting back and reading these posts in hopes of keeping up with whats going on in the department. You guys that are punking each other out, and especially this Barca guy who cant seem to resist the name calling, should be ashamed of what level you are stooping too.

I will not be posting my name to this message either, so I guess I'm not fortunate to have the plumbing that it takes to hang in with you big boys. But, please, if all you have to do is not post with your name to shut this guy up, then post anonymously. I just ask that you show some respect and common decency toward each other, especially if you are brother/sister LEO's.

Have a great holiday season and stay safe out there guys.

[MOD 1]

The threads on this issue were removed in error. The two different threads regarding this issue have been combined into 1 thread. The repeated posts have had one copy removed, so as not to have duplicates posted.

I understand that there is a lot of high emotions on both sides of this issues. Let's please discuss this issue as calmly as possible.

The posts with the name calling have been removed. Let's please stick to the issues and drop the name calling.

Thanks,

Mod 1

Allow me the opportunity to address the inital post which started this discussion.

First off, we agree Wallace & Manuel were trying to remove these stop sticks from the road after they were deployed improperly. This was not a malfunction but the cord was never attached. You go thru training every year with these tools and see firsthand how fast the cars race past. YOu are required to demonstrate your proficience with these tools. everyone is told to inspect these tools at training. Noone in their right mind, realizing several patrol cars are racing toward you , would go into the road in the dark, and try to retreive these things. This split second decision cost these two officers their lives. You are wrong to think, or you have never been in a chase, that on a dark two lane road, any one of these vehicles involved are going to stay within their lane when they can strattle the center line and leave a small margin or error on both sides. You will move over when the K9 takes the lead. Manuel and Wallace knew exactly what was comming at them. They made a poor decision.

Greg was driving his car fast, very fast. He is overtaking other pursuit vehicles. The additional weight makes no difference in this crash. The weight of the rookie sitting next to him is not a factor.
I do not understand your point that Greg was driving fast "especially considering he had a rookie officer with him" This rookie is a police officer. When you pursue, you drive fast. Are you implying since this was a new officer he should not drive fast, pursue, or do his job? Greg has been a corporal for a long time and he knows his limitations.. Being an experienced corporal, he is accustom to having a new officer ride with him. During stressful situiations, everyone gets tunnel vision and Greg probably did not even acknowledge his riders existance. He awas focused on the task at hand.
As for this undeclared prusuit nonsence, the Sgt Coleman was the patrol supervisor that evening and acknowledged the pursuit over the radio. It was not canceled. If you have ever worked a zone, S/10 are chased all the time when conditions are right.
Yes, Greg knew stopsticks were deployed. Yes, Greg knew there would be officers ahead on the side of the road that deployed the stop sticks. No Greg should not have known the deputies that deployed these stop sticks were going to run out into the road, contrary to ALL training. I am positive everyone asked would not step into the road to collect them believing they could beat several pursuing patrol cars. This was a poor decision. To correct you, the officer safety thing to do if you just deployed stop sticks is to retrieve the stopstick with the lanyard from behind cover after the suspect vehicle passes. If you are unable, wait until all the vehicles pass. If you are in the procession, you follow the vehicle in front of you as close as possible so the first car picks up the spikes and the cars following do not. These deputies put out stopsticks for a reason. A cautionary warning is stupid. Everyone involved knows your comming at a high rate of speed.
Everyone on the radio knew they wwere in a pursuit. The Shift Sgt was there. He was on the radio during the events. Stop sticks were deployed. Don't try to twist this into anything other then it was. Agai, if you ever pursued a vehicle, you are suppost to stay off the radio, the K9 take the lead, and the second car call it out. What are you implying was not said & should have been. Greg said on the radio he was passing to take the lead. You are wrong to say noone treated this like a pursuit on the radio. That is exactly what it was treated like. And the radio traffic was very good. I suggest you listen to the tapes again. You are throwing BS out there to imply everyone did not know this was a pursuit.
The PBA attorney always keeps everyone seperated at scenes. I seriously do not believe you have been in Law Enforcement very long to be stating the things you are. The attorney always talks to his clients individually. I have handled many shooting on a supervisory level and the first thing you do is to seperate all parties involved and don't talk to anyone until the PBA attorney gets there. Tuck the involved parties awar with someone not involved out of ear shot of everything going on. It is not the PBA attorneys job to say it was a chase, it was not a chase or to do anything but protect his client. Noone was dishonest. It's on the radio. It's taped. That's a dumb accusation.

God rest their soles, but if they had maintained their equipment and followed their training which they go thru every year, they would still be with us. Greg did cause their death by striking them on the road but the two caused their own death by making the poor decision to step into the road knowing speeding police cars are chasing.
You are right, a punishment is not for you or I to decide. The Sheriff makes that decision and he had made it. Respect his decision.
By implying that the Sheriff did anything to obtain personal gain is obsurd. You need to get a little more road experience or stay in the jail because your lack of knowledge of pursiuts is ever so evident.
I worked with Manuel and he was a fine officer. I am sure Wallace was a good man also. The truth is they made a bad decision. Gerg should not be the one to bear the sword for the decision they made.

"Real Story" put it together nicely. That Barca guy needs to take lessons on how to put some facts together without all of the ego and emotion. Some facts. Any facts. Just the facts please!

It was good that MOD 1 realized that this thread should have not been removed. It is topics like these that this forum was created. It is a heated debate that will go on for some time.

[K9-7]

The only name calling that should be going on here should be directed to LEOAFFAIRS! This website is the biggest mistake ever made! I can't believe you guys air all your dirty laundry on here for everyone to see. I hope LEOAFFAIRS is happy with what they have done. This post, along with 99% of other posts should have never been allowed to be put on here. Nevertheless, miscellaneous people, with no facts or only rumors, should not be able to just make up lies or spread rumors with no repercussions. I don't understand how you can feel so strong about an issue (enough to post it on a public website) but will not tell anyone who you are. This website was made to make money, not to help us. They don't care about how the comments on here will affect the people they are talking about. And all you guys do is feed the fire. None of you know what Greg is going thru. Barca, Candy, and I do. That being said, you may get an upset K9 guy or two that are going to tell you how they feel when these rumors or lies are posted about our friend, co-worker, and what we consider our "family." I don't condone it, nor do I condone posting anything on this website! Put yourselves in Greg’s shoes right now....then go back and read all these posts. God forbid something bad happens to you, then you have to read about all the rumors and lies that your own brothers and sisters are talking about you behind your back. We can't change the past, please do not ruin the future for the deputies that are still here. Please do not feed into this leach called LEOAFFAIRS. It’s only going to tear us further apart. Please think about who you are really hurting! Bad decision MOD 1!

K9-7 (BG)

Quoted Post Deleted by Mod 1 due to violating the Terms of Use.

As upset as you obviously are my friend, fact still remains that the two made a bad decision. Your soapbox on this site is not ging to change anything. Move on and let them rest in peace. It's not only the members of K9 that believe this. The family is wasting money that could be used for the childrens college. It' been a year, time to move on.

[MOD 1]

As I stated in my previous post, please refrain from name calling. I just banned a poster for 7 days for violating the Terms of Use for posting a "Personal Slam". I will not tolerate it, especially in this thread.

If you cannot discuss this issue without violating the Terms of Use, then don't bother posting here.

Thanks,

Mod 1