what happened?
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Thread: what happened?

  1. #1
    Guest

    reality check

    http://www.topix.net/forum/source/so...A8MB4T7741M/p2


    I want to explain why Deputy Greg Fernandez, Unit K9-11, a canine handler and field training officer, should be held partially accountable for the deaths of two of Palm Beach County's finest and heroes in the Glades.

    At the time of their deaths, Deputies Wallace and Manuel were trying to remove a set of tire deflation devices or "stop sticks". "Yes", they did not properly set them out on the road by using a retraction cord, but sometimes, especially under the stress and fog of a critical incident, equipment malfunctions happen. Deputies make split second decisions to get the job done and sometimes those decisions involve risk. These two deputies would not have gone into the road had they heard Deputy Fernandez communicate he was passing the lead vehicle OR if the two deputies could have heard AND seen the lights AND siren of Deputy Fernandez's vehicle.

    But, hold on just a minute and let's review facts.

    Deputy Fernandez knew he was driving his vehicle at it's near top speed at 115 MPH (remember a canine car weighs much more than a regular patrol car because of the canine safety cage, special equipment inside the passenger compartment, and heavy training canine aids in the truck. Also, there was the added weight of Deputy Fernandez's rookie trainee).

    Deputy Fernandez knew the road was completely dark with no street lighting nor city lights nor lunar illumination.

    Deputy Fernandez knew there were canals just off the road making it extremely dangerous and risky to drive that fast in this area of the Glades, especially considering he had a rookie officer with him.

    Deputy Fernandez knew he had an inexperienced officer with him. This is important because having rookie officer in your police car places some distraction on your thought process as an officer experiences tunnel vision in stressful pursuit driving.

    Deputy Fernandez knew this was an undeclared pursuit because had he or any other person or his supervisor involved announced on the police radio this was a chase of a stolen vehicle (whether in the rural Glades area or not), then it most likely would have been cancelled (remember this point, because it is critical in just a minute).

    Deputy Fernandez knew Stop Sticks were set out onto the road, prepositioned ahead of the suspect's vehicle travel.

    Deputy Fernandez knew there were Deputies just ahead of his vehicle.

    Deputy Fernandez knew OR should have known if deputies are out in the open (with or near their Stop Sticks), then police training using Stop Sticks suggests, the officer safety thing to do, or the common sense thing to say is you are passing the lead pursing vehicle to take the lead yuorself. This way, it gives cautionary warnings to those deputies in the open.

    Deputy Fernandez should have done the morally righteous act of saying to the families and children of Wallace and Manuel, those simple words, "I am so sorry".

    Now for the undeclared pursuit.

    Had this been an authorized pursuit by the on-duty Watch Commander or Command Duty Officer, which is in their authority to do for non-violent or property-only crimes, then all deputies involved in this car chase would have not "held back" on the radio, communicating all pertinent updates of information, without worry if too much is said or if things are said commonly associated with a pursuit on the radio, then the chase would be cancelled.

    No one treated this like a pursuit on the radio, although all were actually in a real chase, so in the end, the suspect was not charged with felony fleeing or felony murder. To charge the suspect with those crimes, it would have required all involved to say they were in a police chase, but because no one asked for permission to authorize a pursuit, all involved were scared they could be held accountable for being in chase not authorized. So, instead, at the scene of the incident and after, their Police Benevolent Association attorney told all Deputies involved to state they all were following the vehicle, but never in a chase. Make no mistake, this was a chase. Not to admit to this is dishonest. It is this key point that makes the incident incredible.

    Deputy Fernandez must be held responsible. I am not talking about criminal charges.

    I am stating he should be severely punished for his role in contributing to, NOT CAUSING, but contributing to the death of Deputies Wallace and Manuel. If this means a suspension or termination, that is not for me to say, but for Sheriff Ric Bradshaw to decide.

    Police work is dangerous & the police profession is a brotherhood. All people, whether law enforcement or citizens, should have compassion for all deputies involved, including the ones that responded to that terrible scene that early morning.

    Justice is required in this case and that means a consequence for Deputy Fernandez.

    Another point is this investigation did not require over a year to complete. The investigation & toxicology report, showing a 0.02 blood alcohol content for Manuel, was completed over 7 months ago. It was only then Sheriff Bradshaw hired private consultants to write findings released today.

    How odd is that.

    I find it incredibly suspect that the Sheriff waited until after the election to brief the families and release this full report.

    Oh, where's the PBA standing with the families?

    Why is the PBA defending Fernandez OVER the Wallace & Manuel families?

  2. #2
    Guest

    Re: reality check

    Thank you for telling it like it is, and was.. You are right on the money and this is something that needs to be review and thought about.. Keep everyone nvolved in your thoughts and prayers... God Bless

  3. #3
    Guest

    Re: reality check

    Fernandez has been punished enough! Punishing him any further will only temporarily satisfy those who are upset with the results of the investigation, and then what?

  4. #4
    Guest

    Re: reality check

    The entire way the pursuit policy works is complete horse $h*t! Technically, this was NOT a chase. I've been in these "not-chases" before, where I was on the radio, giving speed, direction of travel, and you could clearly hear my sirens. We had people set up with stop-sticks all over the damn city, and we had 10-33 traffic for a good 10 minutes while I "followed" this stolen vehicle around. K-9 was on his way to us, and the eagle was in the air. When it was all said and done, it "wasn't a chase".

    If they don't want us 10-31 on stolen vehicles, they need to reinforce that fact by not sometimes allowing it, or by punishing people that do it. If the watch commander or captain is going to over-ride policy (which they are allowed to do) and allow the chase, they need to call it an official chase and not be too lazy to do the damn paper work associated with it.

    There are policies that we that are obviously not enforced and widely exceptable. Smoking and dipping is a perfect example. Although it is against policy, half the force does it, and goes unpunished. I don't know when most deputies get this fact through their head, but it took me about 3 years on the road; IT'S NOT F^CKING WORTH IT! Who cares if some dumb criminal stole a car? Is it worth loosing your job, being sued, killing someone, or killing yourself? After trying to change the world and do the right thing for 3 years, I realized that isn't what the department wants. They want no legal liablity in anything you do as a deputy.

    As soon as I initiate a 10-50 and the car doesn't stop, I'm making a U-turn. Who gives a sh#t? Answer your calls, pull your paper, and be polite during the course of your patrol. Enjoy the percs of this job. Cheap/Free food, crazy women, being able to speed, park wherever you want, free gas, etc. Don't throw it all away because you take it personally when a bad guy commits a crime. I learned the hard way, I wish they would have told me to just be a slug in the academy.

  5. #5
    Guest

    Re: reality check

    This is a painful subject for many... But let's not forget that NOBODY forces us to put a uniform on and risk our lives. We do this by CHOICE!! Just like Manuel and Wallace did. What happened to them was a horrible ACCIDENT!!! Fernandez was doing his job. He should not be tormented for that.. I have already told my family that if I ever die in the line of duty, to never tarnish my memory by behaving the way that these families are. To speak with the press and scream"cover up" is ridiculous. It bothers me to see these families behave this way. I can never begin to imagine the pain they continue to suffer.. BUT this job comes with risks and we are all aware of them when we show up for work.If our families are not willing to come to terms with these risks then hand in the green and be a civilian!! Be safe!

  6. #6
    Guest

    what happened?

    what happened to the topic of merry christmas ? I read the posting yesterday about the accident in belle glade and then it disappeared? It sounded like the information was correct and i saw no violations of the terms of use. why was it removed Mr. Moderator?

  7. #7
    Guest

    Re: what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Why ask why
    Deputy Fernandez should have done the morally righteous act of saying to the families and children of Wallace and Manuel, those simple words, "I am so sorry".

    [/b]
    Who the hell is going to go say anything to a family that publicly and immediately announces they've hired a lawyer and intend on suing.... even before Fernandez was out the hospital.

    Fernandez did absolutely the right thing by never saying "sorry" or anything else to the family, as this family had intentions to sue from the beginning...

    Its just too bad that after this whole thing is over.. people arent going to remember two deputies that died in the line of duty with honor.. theyre going to remember the disgusting actions of their families which followed..

  8. #8
    Guest

    Question Re: what happened?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Why ask why
    Deputy Fernandez should have done the morally righteous act of saying to the families and children of Wallace and Manuel, those simple words, "I am so sorry".

    [/b]
    Who the hell is going to go say anything to a family that publicly and immediately announces they've hired a lawyer and intend on suing.... even before Fernandez was out the hospital.

    Fernandez did absolutely the right thing by never saying "sorry" or anything else to the family, as this family had intentions to sue from the beginning...

    Its just too bad that after this whole thing is over.. people arent going to remember two deputies that died in the line of duty with honor.. theyre going to remember the disgusting actions of their families which followed..

    Are you out of your mind?

    The family did not hire an attorney before Fernandez was out of the hospital. Get your facts straight. Stop repeating information that is not true.

    Just because a family may sue a number of entities involved (PBSO, Stop Sticks, etc.) or actual file a law suit, what harm, legal or otherwise, would come by Fernandez saying, "I am so sorry." That is not an admission of guilt. Plus, if this were to become a matter before the court, which most likey will be settled out of court, don't you think it would inflame the jury knowing that Fernandez never apologized versus saying sorry immediately after. We can control the filing of law suits. People can file law suits. We can control our own actions. Saying sorry was the right thing to say.


    Regardless, what does an apology being said have to do with Fernandez having some responsibility for his role in contributing to the deaths of two deputies. I think it is safe to say that Fernandez never intended to harm our own, but his actions did have an effect to the series of events that led to their deaths. For that, he should be punished with a stiff suspension (30 days or more), transfer from the K9 unit, and removal from the FTO Program (he violated numerous G.O. in front of a trainee, whether you justify it or not, it happened).

    People, Fernandez may in fact be "good people" and simply made a very bad mistake. OK, I can see that. But, he has to pay for his role. HE MUST PAY FOR HIS ROLE. Justice will NOT be served unless there is a punishment. For those who say he is being punished by living with the fact he drove the vehicle that killed two deputies. Well, sorry, that logic does not work when we in law enforcement think that criminals who kill others, in traffic crashes or homicides, must pay for their actions, besides living with the knowledge they committed a crime. So, in this case, a suspension and transfer for Fernandez seems to be proportionable considering the situation.

    So, to recap, Fernandez is NOT the cause nor the primary first action leading to the deaths, but as a contributor to, he does bear some accountability.

    That accountability should be a serious suspension.

    One more note where the heck is the PBA?

    Why aren't they standing with these dead deputies families?

    Why is it that the clear right thing to do and say always seems so difficult for the PBA leadership?

    What a joke?

  9. #9
    Guest

    Re: what happened?

    First of all, let me start by saying it was a very, very, very..........unfortunate accident which took the lives of both of our brothers. I personally knew both Tree and Wallace. But, all this bullshit that you guys are typing on this website, please keep it to yourselfs. How much longer is this going to go on. Every day when I go to work, I know there is a chance I might not come back home to my family. My wife and the rest of my family know that as well. They accept the fact that our job is a dangerous one and it is only getting worse day by day. They know unfortunate accidents will happen on this job that could possible take our lives, whether it be getting accidently shot by a co-worker, crashing in a pursuit, so on and so on, etc........ Again, a very unfortunate accident happened over a year ago. They will always be remembered, our lives need to go on. Happy Holidays.

    Candy K9-5

  10. #10
    Guest

    Re: what happened?

    ok but no discipline for him right? but go ahead and arrest people for working OT boy thats breaking the law.... :evil:

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